Igeocacher not being TOU compliant?

[+Insp Gadget]

Can someone explain what TOU compliant is and why Igeocacher is not?

 

Thanks!

[+trainlove]

Try reading http://www.geocaching.com/about/termsofuse.aspx and the other legalease on nearly any geocaching.com page, I also like to read all the legal mumbo jumbo on the forums pages too.

 

and these are good to know too, http://www.geocaching.com/waypoints/ and http://www.geocaching.com/waypoints/agreement.aspx?ID=0

Edited August 26, 2008 by trainlove

[+bitmap]

Keystone,

 

If the iGeoCacher TOU issue is with the sharing of GPX files to third parties (which is forbidden by Groundspeak), please know that the application being discussed is a stand alone iPhone application that works differently than the web based application of a few months ago. To use the iGeoCacher application, one doesn't have to transmit their GPX data to a website, it is all self contained on the computer. It's like Cachemate (for the most part, local viewing of your GPX data) on your handheld.

 

Just wanted to let you know if there was confusion about the new functionality.

 

Thanks,

Tony

[+StanByk]

I doubt that groundspeaks stance on this would hold up in court. Okay this is just my gut feeling and I really have no idea. But I cannot see the problem of loading gpx files into an off-line application. Once I have downloaded a pocket query I feel I should be able to do with it whatever I want as long as I do not make it available to other people (that is people other than me, =subtle difference).

Groundspeaks stance on this is, at least in my opinion, outrageous.

[+bitmap]

I doubt that groundspeaks stance on this would hold up in court. Okay this is just my gut feeling and I really have no idea. But I cannot see the problem of loading gpx files into an off-line application. Once I have downloaded a pocket query I feel I should be able to do with it whatever I want as long as I do not make it available to other people (that is people other than me, =subtle difference).

Groundspeaks stance on this is, at least in my opinion, outrageous.

 

I can't see the problem with it either. So, hopefully Keystone isn't aware of the recent programming changes to iGeoCacher that no longer require third party sharing of the GPX files for it to work, or there is another TOU issue that I'm (nor the developer of iGeoCacher) is aware of. Hopefully Keystone will enlighten us.

 

-Tony

[+sduck]

Yes, I'm a bit concerned about this also. After my initial scepticism on that thread, I got in contact with the developer who answered some detailed questions very quickly. I also got in touch with Keystone about the closing ofthat thread, and have not head an answer. General answers like Trainlove's "read the Terms of Use" are nice, but I'd like to know exactly how this app violates them, and other apps such as gsak and cachemate do not.

 

I do see that there is still a link to the old igeocacher web based app in there - is that the problem? Simple questions, folks...

[+sduck]

Yes, I'm a bit concerned about this also. After my initial scepticism on that thread, I got in contact with the developer who answered some detailed questions very quickly. I also got in touch with Keystone about the closing ofthat thread, and have not head an answer. General answers like Trainlove's "read the Terms of Use" are nice, but I'd like to know exactly how this app violates them, and other apps such as gsak and cachemate do not.

 

I do see that there is still a link to the old igeocacher web based app in there - is that the problem? Simple questions, folks...

[+TotemLake]

I doubt that groundspeaks stance on this would hold up in court. Okay this is just my gut feeling and I really have no idea. But I cannot see the problem of loading gpx files into an off-line application. Once I have downloaded a pocket query I feel I should be able to do with it whatever I want as long as I do not make it available to other people (that is people other than me, =subtle difference).

Groundspeaks stance on this is, at least in my opinion, outrageous.

It can hold up. Read your software EULA sometime. You don't own that software either.

[+StanByk]

We are not talking about software though, we are talking about data, XML that is. Pocket queries can be read with any text editor as they are just text and nothing else. I can not believe that anyone can justifiably determine which software I must use or must not use to open a simple text file.

NOTE: I am not talking about sharing the data with anyone, all I am talking about is how I choose to display data which comes in an open format (xml/text) and for which I have purchased the rights to use it. Again, I am only talking about my own usage. Obviously it is a totally different story if you make the data available to someone else!

My understanding is that the value of gpx files lies in their content and not in the file format.

 

I doubt that groundspeaks stance on this would hold up in court. Okay this is just my gut feeling and I really have no idea. But I cannot see the problem of loading gpx files into an off-line application. Once I have downloaded a pocket query I feel I should be able to do with it whatever I want as long as I do not make it available to other people (that is people other than me, =subtle difference).

Groundspeaks stance on this is, at least in my opinion, outrageous.

It can hold up. Read your software EULA sometime. You don't own that software either.

[+sduck]

I was confused about this, and also dismayed by Keystones lack of response, but think I found the problem. I rewatched the videos about the app, and there is a built in port to get your cache information from the ayefon site, which could easily be considered a third party. That's your non-compliance.

 

I've asked the developer if he'd be willing to remove that aspect of the program.

 

I'd like to think that the files they send me are mine after I pay for them to do as I want, but none the less I've also agreed to their TOU before downloading them. It's easy to forget that part of the deal, because we do it so often and it's so fast, but there it is.

[+Renegade Knight]

We are not talking about software though, we are talking about data, XML that is. Pocket queries can be read with any text editor as they are just text and nothing else. I can not believe that anyone can justifiably determine which software I must use or must not use to open a simple text file. ...

 

Data can be liscensed. The Terms of use also apply. However since you pay for that data, Fair use also applies. Which is to say you can enjoy that data any way you want so long as you don't break the copyright. The lisence and TOS can't really get in the way of fair use. Fair use is implied by teh fact that they are selling the date for your use and enjoyment. It's rather counterproductive to not allow that. However organizations like the RIAA and MPAA do like to shoot themselves in the foot.

[+Renegade Knight]

I was confused about this, and also dismayed by Keystones lack of response, but think I found the problem. I rewatched the videos about the app, and there is a built in port to get your cache information from the ayefon site, which could easily be considered a third party. That's your non-compliance. ...

 

That's a good point. However they are acting a lot like an email program if they get your data for you and put it on your device. It's a fine line why email is ok and something else that does the same thing for you isn't.