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Cav Scout

What impact have you made for Earthcaching?

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Prior to me moving to Kentucky from Alaska, there was only 19 publised earthcaches in the entire state of Ky... There are now 159 active ECs and more coming in. I like to think my time on ECs is putting Kentucky on the geocaching map as the place to find Earthcaches. There are a large concentration of ECs in the cities of Lexington, Louisville, and the Red River Gorge geological area. Many are easy to drive to and there are quite a few that you must hike to.

 

I am currently working on a series of earthcaches that are only accessable by boat along the Kentucky River. This is known as the palisades region of Ky.

 

Here is a picture of my newest EC I submitted. Its called Chimney Rock.

 

IMG_2780.jpg

 

I can't get enough of Earthcaches and enjoy bringing earth cachers/geocachers to the locations I find that are interesting, educational, and beautiful.

Edited by Cav Scout

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I was the first to create an earthcache in portugal - See link Here

 

I have since created another 19 in Portugal and two more in neighbouring Spain. The followed and another seven in Portugal by other geocachers. I plan to increase that number in the next few weeks with EC's on fossil corals, wave-cut platforms, weathering of granites, Felsic dykes, rhyolites and gold mining during the Roman period.

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I would hope that the only impact that I make on ECs is to open up this concept to others. If that can be done... then I have done well.

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We love earthcaches. We've never visited any location where the kids asked so many questions. There are just a handful scattered throughout Arkansas but we're working at hiding some now. It's tough finding information for some of the sites but we're working on it. :anibad:

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We love earthcaches. We've never visited any location where the kids asked so many questions. There are just a handful scattered throughout Arkansas but we're working at hiding some now. It's tough finding information for some of the sites but we're working on it. :anibad:

 

Don't know what part of Arkansas you are in but take a look at the Little Missouri Falls that are SE of Big Fork. I was going to try to develop that but I didn't save my pics from when I visited.

Edited by BiT

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Prior to me moving to Kentucky from Alaska, there was only 19 publised earthcaches in the entire state of Ky... There are now 159 active ECs and more coming in. I like to think my time on ECs is putting Kentucky on the geocaching map as the place to find Earthcaches. There are a large concentration of ECs in the cities of Lexington, Louisville, and the Red River Gorge geological area. Many are easy to drive to and there are quite a few that you must hike to.

 

I am currently working on a series of earthcaches that are only accessable by boat along the Kentucky River. This is known as the palisades region of Ky.

 

Here is a picture of my newest EC I submitted. Its called Chimney Rock.

 

IMG_2780.jpg

 

I can't get enough of Earthcaches and enjoy bringing earth cachers/geocachers to the locations I find that are interesting, educational, and beautiful.

 

Awesome picture!!

 

Looks like I need to plan me a trip to Eastern Kentucky!

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Come on down to Ky. Lots of earthcaches and geocaches to be found.

 

Prior to me moving to Kentucky from Alaska, there was only 19 publised earthcaches in the entire state of Ky... There are now 159 active ECs and more coming in. I like to think my time on ECs is putting Kentucky on the geocaching map as the place to find Earthcaches. There are a large concentration of ECs in the cities of Lexington, Louisville, and the Red River Gorge geological area. Many are easy to drive to and there are quite a few that you must hike to.

 

I am currently working on a series of earthcaches that are only accessable by boat along the Kentucky River. This is known as the palisades region of Ky.

 

Here is a picture of my newest EC I submitted. Its called Chimney Rock.

 

IMG_2780.jpg

 

I can't get enough of Earthcaches and enjoy bringing earth cachers/geocachers to the locations I find that are interesting, educational, and beautiful.

 

Awesome picture!!

 

Looks like I need to plan me a trip to Eastern Kentucky!

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I guess I have done a little.....

 

Well yeah, thanks for reveiwing all the eartchcaches that everyone does the leg work on so it can get published so others can see the beauty on the earth.

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We love earthcaches. We've never visited any location where the kids asked so many questions. There are just a handful scattered throughout Arkansas but we're working at hiding some now. It's tough finding information for some of the sites but we're working on it. :unsure:

 

Don't know what part of Arkansas you are in but take a look at the Little Missouri Falls that are SE of Big Fork. I was going to try to develop that but I didn't save my pics from when I visited.

 

We live in west central Arkansas. We've camped at the Albert Pike campground very near there many times. That would be a great place for an earthcache. I thought about placing an earthcache there but there is already a cache at that location. There's a little known waterfall nearby called Crooked Creek Falls that I thought about developing and also a small cave called window rock near the campground.

 

It may take awhile but we'll get some placed here and hopefully spark some more interest in them.

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We live in west central Arkansas. We've camped at the Albert Pike campground very near there many times. That would be a great place for an earthcache. I thought about placing an earthcache there but there is already a cache at that location. There's a little known waterfall nearby called Crooked Creek Falls that I thought about developing and also a small cave called window rock near the campground.

 

It may take awhile but we'll get some placed here and hopefully spark some more interest in them.

Don't let a little old traditional cache stop you from placing an EarthCache in the area. There is no distance restriction with EarthCaches and traditionals (so long as they don't have the same coordinates and/or the same information)

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You also have to contact the nearby cache owner and ask if its ok to set up the EC so close to their traditional geocache.

 

We live in west central Arkansas. We've camped at the Albert Pike campground very near there many times. That would be a great place for an earthcache. I thought about placing an earthcache there but there is already a cache at that location. There's a little known waterfall nearby called Crooked Creek Falls that I thought about developing and also a small cave called window rock near the campground.

 

It may take awhile but we'll get some placed here and hopefully spark some more interest in them.

Don't let a little old traditional cache stop you from placing an EarthCache in the area. There is no distance restriction with EarthCaches and traditionals (so long as they don't have the same coordinates and/or the same information)

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So getting the thread back on track, what "impact" have you, we or all of us done for earthcaching?

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...maybe the real impact is the over 200,000 people that have visited EarthCaches and learnt something (more) about our planet.

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...maybe the real impact is the over 200,000 people that have visited EarthCaches and learnt something (more) about our planet.

 

That's a definite Plus

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Other than 200,000 finders (thanks for finding the ECs by the way) What EC placers have made a impact in regards to geological awareness, enjoyment of hiking to and discovering little known places, etc?

Edited by Cav Scout

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I guess I have done a little.....

 

Well yeah, thanks for reveiwing all the eartchcaches that everyone does the leg work on so it can get published so others can see the beauty on the earth.

 

Not only does he review them...he placed the first ones....he did the all the work on setting it up and he is the one that keeps it going. He also continues to place new ones and takes over some that are abandoned. He is also the one that sometimes stuffs the pins into envelopes that you all get. He did all the work behind it before Anny came along to help. He does plenty of his own leg work. no need for the snarky attitude. without what he has done ....there would be nothing for you guys to whine and complain about :D

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I imagine if you owned a EC or two you would probably realize its the finders and creaters of earthcaches that keep the EC program afloat :) .

 

I guess I have done a little.....

 

Well yeah, thanks for reveiwing all the eartchcaches that everyone does the leg work on so it can get published so others can see the beauty on the earth.

 

Not only does he review them...he placed the first ones....he did the all the work on setting it up and he is the one that keeps it going. He also continues to place new ones and takes over some that are abandoned. He is also the one that sometimes stuffs the pins into envelopes that you all get. He did all the work behind it before Anny came along to help. He does plenty of his own leg work. no need for the snarky attitude. without what he has done ....there would be nothing for you guys to whine and complain about :D

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I imagine if you owned a EC or two you would probably realize its the finders and creaters of earthcaches that keep the EC program afloat :) .

 

I guess I have done a little.....

 

Well yeah, thanks for reveiwing all the eartchcaches that everyone does the leg work on so it can get published so others can see the beauty on the earth.

 

Not only does he review them...he placed the first ones....he did the all the work on setting it up and he is the one that keeps it going. He also continues to place new ones and takes over some that are abandoned. He is also the one that sometimes stuffs the pins into envelopes that you all get. He did all the work behind it before Anny came along to help. He does plenty of his own leg work. no need for the snarky attitude. without what he has done ....there would be nothing for you guys to whine and complain about :D

 

While i dont deny that those that truly go out and create Earthcaches and visit and log them correctly help keep earthcaching going....it would not BE with out Geoaware. All the work that he does is why you can all go out and enjoy earthcaching, and there is alot of work to it. And remember....its quality ....not quantity :)

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Maggiebelle, this is about making a impact and educating others with the ECs you have placed.

 

Now get out there and set up a earthcache B) .

 

While i dont deny that those that truly go out and create Earthcaches and visit and log them correctly help keep earthcaching going....it would not BE with out Geoaware. All the work that he does is why you can all go out and enjoy earthcaching, and there is alot of work to it. And remember....its quality ....not quantity :anibad:

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Maggiebelle, this is about making a impact and educating others with the ECs you have placed.

 

Now get out there and set up a earthcache B) .

 

While i dont deny that those that truly go out and create Earthcaches and visit and log them correctly help keep earthcaching going....it would not BE with out Geoaware. All the work that he does is why you can all go out and enjoy earthcaching, and there is alot of work to it. And remember....its quality ....not quantity :anibad:

 

Oh ok....I will let you get back to tooting your own horn again!

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Lets see......Before Cav Scout came to the Berea Forest there were some where around 7 great regular caches in the forest including one great 5 star cache which had been out there for years and required a rope to repel down to it. That cache GC575E was on most folk "to do list" in this area. After Cav Scout went into the area and LOGGED all the regular caches and then let the cat out of the bag. There is now only one Regular cache in those forest that is owned by you guessed it...Cav Scout and now this plague of EC's are taking over the hill. I love EC's as much as regular caches but hope the Plaque does not hit your area. The moral of this story is! get your EC approval without ruining the other caches for others. I hope this was a good lesson for cav and that he will not ruin this sport for others.

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So getting the thread back on track, what "impact" have you, we or all of us done for earthcaching?

 

...maybe the real impact is the over 200,000 people that have visited EarthCaches and learnt something (more) about our planet.

 

Impact like a Crater?

Got a site I am looking into for an Impact EarthCache.

 

I moved up one more level finally.

 

Thanks CavScout!!

 

And KY aint to fer I will get that way someday.

 

I placed one finally and am looking into many more.

 

If I could get others to see the impact the benchmarks have on all the studies that lead up to the mapping and data that lead up to us being able to find em works out maybe It will have some impact.

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Lets see......Before Cav Scout came to the Berea Forest there were some where around 7 great regular caches in the forest including one great 5 star cache which had been out there for years and required a rope to repel down to it. That cache GC575E was on most folk "to do list" in this area. After Cav Scout went into the area and LOGGED all the regular caches and then let the cat out of the bag. There is now only one Regular cache in those forest that is owned by you guessed it...Cav Scout and now this plague of EC's are taking over the hill. I love EC's as much as regular caches but hope the Plaque does not hit your area. The moral of this story is! get your EC approval without ruining the other caches for others. I hope this was a good lesson for cav and that he will not ruin this sport for others.

 

:laughing:

 

From the outside looking in that might be how this situation appears. However, if you knew the whole story, then you might think differently.

 

This situation started when Cav Scout was asked by the guy in charge of the Berea College Forest to place a cache in memory of his nephew that died. Cav said that he would do that. He checked the area, scouted it out, found that no other caches were nearby and placed the cache. In that same time period another cacher, who will remain anonymous, also attempted to place a cache in the Berea College Forest (but not near the one Cav put out). Both Cav and Cacher "F" were told by Iron Horse Reviewer that they could not place those caches in the Forest. When they asked why the answer given was that they were not the required .10 miles away from other caches. Not true, both protested, there were no caches anywhere near the ones that they put out. The answer given this time was that those areas were "reserved." Hmmm, I don't remember anything in the rules about being allowed to reserve large areas of public or private land for your own cache whenever you please. Needless to say the Forest Director was none too happy that "his" cache couldn't be placed on "his" land. Through a series of emails it was discovered that another cacher, Cacher D, was planning an event in the Forest and had his buddy Iron Horse Reviewer bend the rules so that he could have exclusive access to those areas. When the Forest Director saw the inside job taking place on his land he pulled the plug, and rightfully so, on ANY physical caches in the Berea College Forest (except the memorial cache that he asked Cav to place). Can't say I blame him. Bend the rules, pay the price. From my point of view Cav was not the problem here.

 

Another sad footnote to this story is that other cachers, who I will not mention, have since begun placing angry posts on the caches created by Cav Scout. When it became clear who was behind some of the angry posts (possibly a reviewer incognito?) they were quickly deleted by another reviewer. Inside job to be sure.

 

Make sure you know the whole story. The traditional caching at Berea College Forest was ruined for everyone but not by Cav.

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Lets see......Before Cav Scout came to the Berea Forest there were some where around 7 great regular caches in the forest including one great 5 star cache which had been out there for years and required a rope to repel down to it. That cache GC575E was on most folk "to do list" in this area. After Cav Scout went into the area and LOGGED all the regular caches and then let the cat out of the bag. There is now only one Regular cache in those forest that is owned by you guessed it...Cav Scout and now this plague of EC's are taking over the hill. I love EC's as much as regular caches but hope the Plaque does not hit your area. The moral of this story is! get your EC approval without ruining the other caches for others. I hope this was a good lesson for cav and that he will not ruin this sport for others.

 

:laughing:

 

From the outside looking in that might be how this situation appears. However, if you knew the whole story, then you might think differently.

 

This situation started when Cav Scout was asked by the guy in charge of the Berea College Forest to place a cache in memory of his nephew that died. Cav said that he would do that. He checked the area, scouted it out, found that no other caches were nearby and placed the cache. In that same time period another cacher, who will remain anonymous, also attempted to place a cache in the Berea College Forest (but not near the one Cav put out). Both Cav and Cacher "F" were told by Iron Horse Reviewer that they could not place those caches in the Forest. When they asked why the answer given was that they were not the required .10 miles away from other caches. Not true, both protested, there were no caches anywhere near the ones that they put out. The answer given this time was that those areas were "reserved." Hmmm, I don't remember anything in the rules about being allowed to reserve large areas of public or private land for your own cache whenever you please. Needless to say the Forest Director was none too happy that "his" cache couldn't be placed on "his" land. Through a series of emails it was discovered that another cacher, Cacher D, was planning an event in the Forest and had his buddy Iron Horse Reviewer bend the rules so that he could have exclusive access to those areas. When the Forest Director saw the inside job taking place on his land he pulled the plug, and rightfully so, on ANY physical caches in the Berea College Forest (except the memorial cache that he asked Cav to place). Can't say I blame him. Bend the rules, pay the price. From my point of view Cav was not the problem here.

 

Another sad footnote to this story is that other cachers, who I will not mention, have since begun placing angry posts on the caches created by Cav Scout. When it became clear who was behind some of the angry posts (possibly a reviewer incognito?) they were quickly deleted by another reviewer. Inside job to be sure.

 

Make sure you know the whole story. The traditional caching at Berea College Forest was ruined for everyone but not by Cav.

 

The fact is there was once many great caches in this forest, now there are not. Who ever fault it is, it's a shame it has happened.

 

Also it does not do any good to blame the volunteer reviewers, I am fully aware of what transpired and the truth is Cav came into an area and now there are only HIS EC's and HIS regular cache. All I have to do is look in my own area around another one of Cav's EC's GC19GQP and know that I once hunted more than 20 park approved caches that are no longer there because Cav went in and contacted another person other than the original person that approved them. Like you said "Make sure you know the whole story"

 

I have said my last piece and I will be getting back to my real passion of finding caches. So I will not be adding any more comments about this subject.

Edited by Turtle3863

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Lets see......Before Cav Scout came to the Berea Forest there were some where around 7 great regular caches in the forest including one great 5 star cache which had been out there for years and required a rope to repel down to it. That cache GC575E was on most folk "to do list" in this area. After Cav Scout went into the area and LOGGED all the regular caches and then let the cat out of the bag. There is now only one Regular cache in those forest that is owned by you guessed it...Cav Scout and now this plague of EC's are taking over the hill. I love EC's as much as regular caches but hope the Plaque does not hit your area. The moral of this story is! get your EC approval without ruining the other caches for others. I hope this was a good lesson for cav and that he will not ruin this sport for others.

 

:laughing:

 

From the outside looking in that might be how this situation appears. However, if you knew the whole story, then you might think differently.

 

This situation started when Cav Scout was asked by the guy in charge of the Berea College Forest to place a cache in memory of his nephew that died. Cav said that he would do that. He checked the area, scouted it out, found that no other caches were nearby and placed the cache. In that same time period another cacher, who will remain anonymous, also attempted to place a cache in the Berea College Forest (but not near the one Cav put out). Both Cav and Cacher "F" were told by Iron Horse Reviewer that they could not place those caches in the Forest. When they asked why the answer given was that they were not the required .10 miles away from other caches. Not true, both protested, there were no caches anywhere near the ones that they put out. The answer given this time was that those areas were "reserved." Hmmm, I don't remember anything in the rules about being allowed to reserve large areas of public or private land for your own cache whenever you please. Needless to say the Forest Director was none too happy that "his" cache couldn't be placed on "his" land. Through a series of emails it was discovered that another cacher, Cacher D, was planning an event in the Forest and had his buddy Iron Horse Reviewer bend the rules so that he could have exclusive access to those areas. When the Forest Director saw the inside job taking place on his land he pulled the plug, and rightfully so, on ANY physical caches in the Berea College Forest (except the memorial cache that he asked Cav to place). Can't say I blame him. Bend the rules, pay the price. From my point of view Cav was not the problem here.

 

Another sad footnote to this story is that other cachers, who I will not mention, have since begun placing angry posts on the caches created by Cav Scout. When it became clear who was behind some of the angry posts (possibly a reviewer incognito?) they were quickly deleted by another reviewer. Inside job to be sure.

 

Make sure you know the whole story. The traditional caching at Berea College Forest was ruined for everyone but not by Cav.

 

While this story sounds much more nefarious than it really is, if someone places a cache asking it to be published on a certain day, and then a second someone places a cache less than 528 feet away after that, the person placing the cache first, as evidence by the GC#, gets priority on the location. You can see the previous discussion on this subject HERE. No rules were bent, and this is all becoming much more dramatic than it should be.

 

We've strayed pretty far off of the original topic here, so I won't make any more comments on this subject in this forum, but would be happy to discuss this with anyone who would like more information elsewhere.

 

As Mr. Clemens says: What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so.

 

EDIT: spelin n grammer

Edited by budophylus

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Getting permission for the placement of any cache is the honest and right way of doing things when it comes to private property.

 

A huge thank you to the local reviewer IronHorseReviewer for enforcing the rules and removing the illegal geocaches.

 

Thank you to those who have found all of the new EarthCaches at Berea Forest.

 

And the one remaining geocache in the Berea Forest is placed at the request of Berea College.

 

Lets see......Before Cav Scout came to the Berea Forest there were some where around 7 great regular caches in the forest including one great 5 star cache which had been out there for years and required a rope to repel down to it. That cache GC575E was on most folk "to do list" in this area. After Cav Scout went into the area and LOGGED all the regular caches and then let the cat out of the bag. There is now only one Regular cache in those forest that is owned by you guessed it...Cav Scout and now this plague of EC's are taking over the hill. I love EC's as much as regular caches but hope the Plaque does not hit your area. The moral of this story is! get your EC approval without ruining the other caches for others. I hope this was a good lesson for cav and that he will not ruin this sport for others.

 

:laughing:

 

From the outside looking in that might be how this situation appears. However, if you knew the whole story, then you might think differently.

 

This situation started when Cav Scout was asked by the guy in charge of the Berea College Forest to place a cache in memory of his nephew that died. Cav said that he would do that. He checked the area, scouted it out, found that no other caches were nearby and placed the cache. In that same time period another cacher, who will remain anonymous, also attempted to place a cache in the Berea College Forest (but not near the one Cav put out). Both Cav and Cacher "F" were told by Iron Horse Reviewer that they could not place those caches in the Forest. When they asked why the answer given was that they were not the required .10 miles away from other caches. Not true, both protested, there were no caches anywhere near the ones that they put out. The answer given this time was that those areas were "reserved." Hmmm, I don't remember anything in the rules about being allowed to reserve large areas of public or private land for your own cache whenever you please. Needless to say the Forest Director was none too happy that "his" cache couldn't be placed on "his" land. Through a series of emails it was discovered that another cacher, Cacher D, was planning an event in the Forest and had his buddy Iron Horse Reviewer bend the rules so that he could have exclusive access to those areas. When the Forest Director saw the inside job taking place on his land he pulled the plug, and rightfully so, on ANY physical caches in the Berea College Forest (except the memorial cache that he asked Cav to place). Can't say I blame him. Bend the rules, pay the price. From my point of view Cav was not the problem here.

 

Another sad footnote to this story is that other cachers, who I will not mention, have since begun placing angry posts on the caches created by Cav Scout. When it became clear who was behind some of the angry posts (possibly a reviewer incognito?) they were quickly deleted by another reviewer. Inside job to be sure.

 

Make sure you know the whole story. The traditional caching at Berea College Forest was ruined for everyone but not by Cav.

 

While this story sounds much more nefarious than it really is, if someone places a cache asking it to be published on a certain day, and then a second someone places a cache less than 528 feet away after that, the person placing the cache first, as evidence by the GC#, gets priority on the location. You can see the previous discussion on this subject HERE. No rules were bent, and this is all becoming much more dramatic than it should be.

 

We've strayed pretty far off of the original topic here, so I won't make any more comments on this subject in this forum, but would be happy to discuss this with anyone who would like more information elsewhere.

 

As Mr. Clemens says: What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so.

 

EDIT: spelin n grammer

Edited by Cav Scout

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This is off the posted topic of this thread. But since the issue has been raised, and since it involves me directly, I feel I have a right to comment. Also, though physical geocaches have been banned in Indian Fort Theater in Berea College Forest, earthcaches are still permitted. With permission, of course.

 

The question appears to be, "Is Cave Scout the 'wrecking ball' he's made out to be?" Let's take a look. First, I want it to be known that I am the "Cacher 'F'" referred to by WH1266FD in the earlier post. If I understand the gripe here, since Cav Scout was apparently the first geocacher in Berea College Forest to follow Groundspeak's geocaching rule of asking permission to place a cache on private land, he is obviously the one to blame for getting the six or so 'illegal' caches banned. Fair enough. However, keep in mind that Berea College owns the land and had no idea that illegal geocaching had been going on for at least six years. That seems pretty clear from the posts I have just read here, as well as what I know of the correspondence conducted with Berea College. The logical conclusion I can draw from Turtle3863's remarks is that it is better to get forgiveness than permission... especially if that course of action provides Turtle3863 with a lot of caches to find... illegal or otherwise. Perhaps I could refer to Turtle3863's rule as, "Don't Ask -- Don't Tell -- Go Cache." How convenient. Or perhaps I am reading him wrong. I don’t want to put words in his mouth.

 

Here is my perspective. I'm a new geocacher who is trying to follow the rules. Since so many caches were placed by various geocachers in Berea College Forest, and for so long (six years in one case), I assumed -- foolish me -- that geocaching on this private property was OK. After all, the trails are open all year to the public for their enjoyment. I even googled for Berea College geocaching policies and turned up no objections. This was because Berea College land managers had never heard of geocaching. Well, they have now. Cav Scout recently relayed the request from Berea College to the owners of caches in Berea College Forest to comply with the Berea College Forest Manager's request to immediately seek permission for the already existing caches. Cav Scout was merely relaying the request and trying to facilitate the proper placement of caches in the Berea College Forest. He did not have to do anything, but he did anyway in the spirit of assisting both the land owner (Berea College) and every cache owner. Here was a clear opportunity for every cache owner to 'come clean' with the Berea College Forest Manager. For my part, I immediately disabled my caches and was planning on participating in a meeting with the Berea College Forest Manager. This meeting, which never happened as it turned out, was part of Cav Scout’s effort to secure official recognition of geocaching by Berea College. The manager, for his part, was initially receptive to the idea of geocaching but wanted to know more. What response did he receive? Not one geocache owner replied. No one contacted the college, and the manager learned how much respect he can expect from the geocaching community. Subsequently, he asked that all physical caches be removed from his forest. The exception being the one geocache where permission was actually requested... the one owned by Cav Scout. It is clear that Cav Scout is the 'wrecking ball' of geocaching merely by following the rules and upholding the ethics promulgated by Groundspeak. The only people who are suffering are the ones who got busted for doing what they wanted instead of following the written rules. I myself am one of those who got caught in the middle despite trying to be 'good.' Yesterday I removed my geocaches from Indian Fort Theater in Berea College Forest. I also wrote a letter to the Berea College Forest Manager explaining both my situation and my regret that he decided as he did. I expressed the hope that physical geocaches may be allowed in Berea College Forest in the future. Considering the outcome, I prefer Cav Scout's world view to the opposing one. I would much rather secure permission first instead of sneaking around and hiding caches wherever I want only to reap punishment at a later date.

 

So, is Cav Scout going hither and ‘yon, placing his own geocaches with the result that some others are removed from this and that property? It appears so. But realize that it’s not a vindictive hunt of geocachers and their caches. Cav Scout isn’t the bogeyman waiting around the corner to jump you when you least expect it. He is an aggressive and conscientious geocacher with a strict code of ethics. And his code conforms to the rule maker of the sport… Groundspeak. Your own ethical code may be in conflict. Or you may have the best of intentions and simply suffer from circumstances beyond your control. But the fact mentioned earlier remains. Not one cache owner contacted the Berea College Forest Manager to secure permission to keep his or her cache. So, as you cast aspersions on the so-called trouble makers, take a look at yourself and your ethics. Are you following the written rules or flying by the seat of your pants and hoping you won’t be caught?

 

Those are my thoughts on the matter… take them or leave them. Also, feel free to take pot shots at me. These forums are the place where a man or woman will shoot off their mouth in a way he or she would never do if actually confronted face-to-face with someone else. If you do take issue with something I have said or want to pick at my argument by posting to this thread, don’t think I’m too much of a coward to reply. It’s merely that I had something to say that would add clarification. I said it. I’m moving on. I don’t waste my time hovering over forums. The only reason I found out about this thread was because a friend phoned me to let me know.

 

In closing, I am thoroughly enjoying my geocaching experiences and hope to be at it for a long time. Thanks to all of the reviewers and my fellow geocachers who are providing me with so many great caches to hunt.

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Lets see......Before Cav Scout came to the Berea Forest there were some where around 7 great regular caches in the forest including one great 5 star cache which had been out there for years and required a rope to repel down to it. That cache GC575E was on most folk "to do list" in this area. After Cav Scout went into the area and LOGGED all the regular caches and then let the cat out of the bag. There is now only one Regular cache in those forest that is owned by you guessed it...Cav Scout and now this plague of EC's are taking over the hill. I love EC's as much as regular caches but hope the Plaque does not hit your area. The moral of this story is! get your EC approval without ruining the other caches for others. I hope this was a good lesson for cav and that he will not ruin this sport for others.

 

One other moral of the story, and I think it is a rule too. Make sure you get approval from the park to place a cache so that when a guy that goes in and follows the right channels and asks for approval for a cache then finds out that they "the park" did not ok any other caches to be there. So who was really in the wrong here? By the way, did you have a hard time climbing the rope down to sign the log yourself on the Great 5 star cache or did you get help?

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Ammosupermans EarthCache (GC1GR2V) Raven Rock-A Sentinel to Change is making a impact to the local area in regards to getting permssion and requiring a permit to access this wonderful site :anibad::rolleyes::anibad: .

 

cbb563a6-c9f6-4006-8ff6-250139c8301.jpg

 

A permit is easy to get, just follow the links on the EC page. Great hike and there are several other great ECs in the surrounding location :laughing: .

Edited by Cav Scout

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Ahhh the words of Mr. Clemens…. well put indeed. Thanks Bud.

 

Gary, I wish you well in your quest to re-attempt a positive conversation with the Berea College Land Manager explaining all the benefits to all parties concerned. I enjoyed talking to you at the East Pinnacle on 11/8/08 and was encouraged by what you had planned in meeting to promote caching. I was very disappointed in what followed after learning that this had been an ongoing issue prior to the Trail Mix. I hope that you will be able to turn this around as part of a good faith community effort. Best of luck!

 

Also, I wanted to clarify the comments regarding Turtle’s Rule. Yes, I believe you did take words from another conversation and place them in his mouth. I saw a text document written by Cav Scout that said word for word “Local Ky geocachers support the don't ask don't tell policy when placing a GC, and that's a shame.” Now Gary, that puts you and me and thousands of others in a profile category. Do I believe that Cav Scout intended that for everyone in Kentucky, I hope not! I just wanted you to know that I have never heard Turtle or anyone else that I cache with ever make a comment like that. On the contrary, I have been to many events with Turtle where he spoke to the group on the “rules” of the sport. And yes, one of the subjects on almost every discussion is placing good quality caches and getting permission when necessary. Many of our areas where these discussions have taken place, Turtle has personally set up the permissions for the local caching community. Many have benefited from his pursuing the proper approvals and I am very thankful for those efforts.

 

From what I see in the Berea College Forest, there was a cache GCK3JZ that had been there over four years and at the bottom of the write-up it says “Thanks to Berea College for approval to place this cache.” This was placed properly with permission and the College was aware of the East Pinnacle Cache and West Pinnacle Slot at that time. Time goes by, people change jobs, and details are forgotten. Maybe the wrong person even approved the placement. The next thing you know there is new personnel and they have no clue of the past permissions. You can see the problems this may cause if someone comes in later and says “Hey, I would like to place a cache out here, oh did you know there are others? You didn’t oh, well let me tell you……….” Cav Scout found out that he did not have the “head person” (was on vacation) to make his approval for GC1HDQD and that is one reason why it is scheduled to be archived on 4/1/09. An amusing day to have it laid to rest…. maybe this land manager does have some hidden humor. Another example of where diplomacy was not used in the best interest for geocaching -- look at GC12RA8, this along with about 20 others in the same nature preserve were put down as you can read the last two logs and see the owners frustration.

 

It is very obvious that Cav Scout, like many of us, has a deep passion for the outdoors and caching. The point that I gathered from Turtle’s notes posted above is the methodology that takes place when authorities are approached. Why can’t a person seeking to place a cache of any kind just ask for their permission alone? Why do they have to bring up what else is there, especially if it is done in a despotic manner. If anyone has a problem with caches and think they are “illegal” why not take that up with a Reviewer. For obvious reasons aggressive and a maharaja approaches do not make people feel positive about caching. They often leave those in charge of land management overwhelmed, bewildered, not to mention the frustration with the local cachers. Diplomacy is the key to cache permission requests and it is much better to be pro-active to build up, not to tear down and confuse both sides of the fence. If you don’t get your way, suck it up and walk away. Some say that can build character.

 

Unless one has been sworn in as the “Marshal of Geo” by Groundspeak wouldn’t their time be better spent making sure what they are doing is “right”, and letting the Reviewers address the rules that are not being followed? If one needs to inform the Reviewer on rules that are not being followed, then do so, and see how they respond. I have yet to see a Reviewer when approached in a professional manner on a valid question not work with you. In many cases they are much better equipped to see the bigger picture and handle it eloquently. Per a post above Cav Scout, he even thanked the Iron Horse Reviewer for his view of their support.

 

Let’s work together to have more great caches in more places (with permission when necessary) for the enjoyment of all. Is that not a part of what this sport is all about?

 

I will close with more wisdom from Mr. Clemens as he wrote this item about Diplomacy, “Good breeding consists in concealing how much we think of ourselves and how little we think of the other person.”

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If you don’t get your way, suck it up and walk away. Some say that can build character.

 

Shpuldn't that work for both sides of the fence. :anitongue:

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I am owners of the one of the caches that was archived. I had permission when I placed the cache. Berea College knew about both East Pinnacle and West Pinnacle Slot when I placed the cache. I am looking for the emails, but they are probably long gone.

 

I spent several weeks finding the correct people at Berea College to approve my cache and get the other two that were there at the time "grandfathered in". I am not sure if the folks at the College that knew about the caches moved on to other jobs, but the college knew about those three caches when I placed mine.

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Ky Hiker,

 

I believe your part of this group in Ky. The reason I said that "some" local Ky geocachers support the don't tell don't ask policy is because I read this in the local Kentucky forums with no other than your geocaching friend Budophylus "BUD" who added a remark to the dont ask dont tell question.

 

If I wanted these caches archived why would I of have taken the time to come out and and retrieve the east pinnacle cache for YOU and others to sign? Why not mention Cav Scout came out there and hepled our group because we was unprepared and did not get permission from the park for rappelling.

 

All I did was get permission for EarthCaches which geocaching.com requires of me to do on private property. Did the owners of the newer caches do the same? I dont know. In the end the local reviewer archived the caches. Did he do enough the keep your caches there? It seems not. I presented the program of EarthCaching and they liked it so much that they now allow caches that don't cause damage to the forest. The newer caches had finders going off the trails. The Berea forest wants all visitors to stay on the trails.

 

As I mentioned before, when I tell property owners about EarthCaching, I have to tell them about geocaching. Many times when I mention geocaching I am either told no or I dont want ammo cans on my property or asked "what the heck is that"?. I have to tell the property managers the whole deal and not just bits and pieces. When I told Berea Forest about geocaches they already knew about the old caches and NOT THE NEW ONES. That is when they became a little upset that they was taken for granted by the "Dont ask dont tell policy" that some cachers used intentionally or not.

 

And did you know that all of the geocaches may still be there today had someone told me which way to move the current geocache? All I was told that the geocache was close to another cache that had not been activated yet. I did not know who the owner was or was I told which way to go, that left me with asking the manager the "where to now?" question.

 

And did you know that the remaining cache at the forest is there at the request of Berea College? It may even stay past 1 April.

 

It seems we only take the parts of stories that benefit us and come here to post things without doing some reasearch.

 

As for Turtle, I have seen many of their caches at Berhiem Forest, isnt the policy to keep all caches within arms reach of trails? Claude the forester at Berhiem trusts that geocachers are doing the right thing. AS GEOCACHERS WE ARE DOING THE RIGHT ARENT WE? However Claude does not get out and see the real deal. Just my two cents.

 

Lets keep this about EarthCaching.

 

As qouted and copied from the Ky forums, seems to be a on going habit, read below.

 

 

maxinenme

Joined: May 19, 2003

Posts: 245

Location: Lexington, KY

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I am of the opinon of "don't ask and don't tell" others will disagree. Use your best judgement in placing a cache.

 

budophylus

 

Joined: Jul 29, 2004

Posts: 367

Location: Lexington

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I agree, it's not been a problem up until this point, which leads me to believe that as long as we're responsible in placement, we can stay under the radar.

 

Go for it, I need a reason to go back to Frankfort, I think we've already hunted most of the caches there.

 

 

 

 

Ahhh the words of Mr. Clemens…. well put indeed. Thanks Bud.

 

I saw a text document written by Cav Scout that said word for word “Local Ky geocachers support the don't ask don't tell policy when placing a GC, and that's a shame.” Now Gary, that puts you and me and thousands of others in a profile category. Do I believe that Cav Scout intended that for everyone in Kentucky, I hope not! I just wanted you to know that I have never heard Turtle or anyone else that I cache with ever make a comment like that. On the contrary, I have been to many events with Turtle where he spoke to the group on the “rules” of the sport. And yes, one of the subjects on almost every discussion is placing good quality caches and getting permission when necessary. Many of our areas where these discussions have taken place, Turtle has personally set up the permissions for the local caching community. Many have benefited from his pursuing the proper approvals and I am very thankful for those efforts.

 

It is very obvious that Cav Scout, like many of us, has a deep passion for the outdoors and caching. The point that I gathered from Turtle’s notes posted above is the methodology that takes place when authorities are approached. Why can’t a person seeking to place a cache of any kind just ask for their permission alone? Why do they have to bring up what else is there, especially if it is done in a despotic manner. If anyone has a problem with caches and think they are “illegal” why not take that up with a Reviewer. For obvious reasons aggressive and a maharaja approaches do not make people feel positive about caching. They often leave those in charge of land management overwhelmed, bewildered, not to mention the frustration with the local cachers. Diplomacy is the key to cache permission requests and it is much better to be pro-active to build up, not to tear down and confuse both sides of the fence. If you don’t get your way, suck it up and walk away. Some say that can build character.

 

I will close with more wisdom from Mr. Clemens as he wrote this item about Diplomacy, “Good breeding consists in concealing how much we think of ourselves and how little we think of the other person.”

Edited by Cav Scout

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The posts made in this thread since my last post contain very good points and information. In particular, I respect the comments made by Ky Hiker. (I enjoyed speaking with you at the last Trail Mix.) Also, I realize that I definitely do not know the fine details of geocache placement 'politics' in other areas of the world. Every situation will be different. However, I am very familiar with the Berea College story. I acknowledge that legally placed caches will be forgotten by a large institution such as Berea College as key people come and go. Especially when that institution has no formal, written geocaching policy to begin with. But in the recent case of Berea College Forest, every cache owner was notified and asked to reaffirm their cache's placement by contacting Berea College. I don't know what else the manager at Berea College could do. His request was an attempt to reach out to the geocaching community for their cooperation. Nobody responded. Ergo, nobody cares. It doesn't get much more straightforward than that. Should Cav Scout have lied about other geocaches by saying, "Nope. I don't know of any other caches out there. Mine is the first one ever."? That would preserve the existence of the caches with the cost being not only the requirement that someone lies when'necessary,' but the acceptance that there is really very little in the way of rules we choose to follow.

 

The choices and situations are complex. However, I do worry about stepping onto that slippery slope of exercising 'situational ethics.' I have already been in parks where the rule is to hide the cache 'one foot' from the trail. And in those same parks I have gone 200 feet into the forest to retrieve a cache. Obviously, there are two people at fault when this act is performed. The one who placed the cache and the one who goes off trail to retrieve it. From this point of view the geocaching community is its own worse enemy. And every cache so placed is a land mine waiting to explode and take out all the caches in a given area. I really don't understand all the drama and emotional energy invested into this controversy. Instead of the sneaking, avoiding, and outright lying that has to be acknowledged in these cases, wouldn't it be better to employ the maxim, "Don't start no trouble, and there'll be no trouble."

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Did you know?

 

We live in west central Arkansas. We've camped at the Albert Pike campground very near there many times. That would be a great place for an earthcache. I thought about placing an earthcache there but there is already a cache at that location. There's a little known waterfall nearby called Crooked Creek Falls that I thought about developing and also a small cave called window rock near the campground.

 

It may take awhile but we'll get some placed here and hopefully spark some more interest in them.

Don't let a little old traditional cache stop you from placing an EarthCache in the area. There is no distance restriction with EarthCaches and traditionals (so long as they don't have the same coordinates and/or the same information)

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Keeping on track.

 

I would hope that the only impact that I make on ECs is to open up this concept to others. If that can be done... then I have done well.

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Only one person has found this one.

 

Come on down to Ky. Lots of earthcaches and geocaches to be found.

 

Prior to me moving to Kentucky from Alaska, there was only 19 publised earthcaches in the entire state of Ky... There are now 159 active ECs and more coming in. I like to think my time on ECs is putting Kentucky on the geocaching map as the place to find Earthcaches. There are a large concentration of ECs in the cities of Lexington, Louisville, and the Red River Gorge geological area. Many are easy to drive to and there are quite a few that you must hike to.

 

I am currently working on a series of earthcaches that are only accessable by boat along the Kentucky River. This is known as the palisades region of Ky.

 

Here is a picture of my newest EC I submitted. Its called Chimney Rock.

 

IMG_2780.jpg

 

I can't get enough of Earthcaches and enjoy bringing earth cachers/geocachers to the locations I find that are interesting, educational, and beautiful.

 

Awesome picture!!

 

Looks like I need to plan me a trip to Eastern Kentucky!

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Exactly why I have NO desire to find an Earthcache in Kentucky.

 

I can't wait to get into Kentucky to cache and log some earthcaches. :blink:

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I've found over 15,500 geocaches of all types, sizes, and requirements.

Some are simple, and others are very complicated.

Earthcaches are not my thing, but I've spent some time and effort understanding them.

 

I've not contributed to hiding any earthcaches.

I have, however, attended a training class with Terrydad2 and understand the effort required to create an earthcache.

 

I found only one of Cav Scouts earthcaches, and had a horrible experience with him.

I'll never find another cache hidden by him.

 

I've found a couple of Terrydad2's earthcaches, and actually learned about the geology of the area.

It was a wonderful experience. :blink:

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Sorry Ventura,

 

Your picture was at a visitor center several miles away from the actual EarthCache site. The logging requirements are pretty simple.

 

GC194H6 To get credit for this find please post a picture of yourself at listed coordinates and answer the following questions. PHOTOS OF ONLY A HAND AND GPS WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED! Do not post without the correct pictures.

 

Maybe next time :blink: .

 

I've found over 15,500 geocaches of all types, sizes, and requirements.

Some are simple, and others are very complicated.

Earthcaches are not my thing, but I've spent some time and effort understanding them.

 

I've not contributed to hiding any earthcaches.

I have, however, attended a training class with Terrydad2 and understand the effort required to create an earthcache.

 

I found only one of Cav Scouts earthcaches, and had a horrible experience with him.

I'll never find another cache hidden by him.

 

I've found a couple of Terrydad2's earthcaches, and actually learned about the geology of the area.

It was a wonderful experience. :sad:

Edited by Cav Scout

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Sorry Ventura,

 

Your picture was at a visitor center several miles away from the actual EarthCache site. The logging requirements are pretty simple.

 

GC194H6 To get credit for this find please post a picture of yourself at listed coordinates and answer the following questions. PHOTOS OF ONLY A HAND AND GPS WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED! Do not post without the correct pictures.

 

Maybe next time :sad: .

 

I've found over 15,500 geocaches of all types, sizes, and requirements.

Some are simple, and others are very complicated.

Earthcaches are not my thing, but I've spent some time and effort understanding them.

 

I've not contributed to hiding any earthcaches.

I have, however, attended a training class with Terrydad2 and understand the effort required to create an earthcache.

 

I found only one of Cav Scouts earthcaches, and had a horrible experience with him.

I'll never find another cache hidden by him.

 

I've found a couple of Terrydad2's earthcaches, and actually learned about the geology of the area.

It was a wonderful experience. :D

 

See :blink::huh::):D

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I found only one of Cav Scouts earthcaches, and had a horrible experience with him.

I'll never find another cache hidden by him.

 

I don't have quite the awesome record you do, but I too had a terrible experience with one of his caches based on the photo requirement (mine wasn't clear enough?! what a rip off!). Very non-geological and vague questions anyway. Very sad. I was just trying to start out with Earthcaches too...luckily I tried some others.

 

At least experiences like those help you realize to be patient with newcomers. Every once in a while I get a wrong answer for my Magdalena Fault EC. I take the time to write to them telling them why that's the incorrect answer rather than just deleting their log.

 

It's a game, but at the same time, it's not about numbers...you know?

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