60 CSX GOING NUTS

[+THEHIWAYMAN]

Hello All!!

 

First of all let me start by appologizing if this question has been asked many times before... I did look to see if i could get any info before starting a new topic, I probably did not look in the right place...

 

Anyways here is my problem... My 60 CSX is going nuts! meaning that It will not show the correct directions being traveled for instance At my home I Know were true North is and the north indicator will point west or sometime even south... I was caching in Page Arizona and made a goto route to a cach and the gps was 180 degree off. we walked to the south of horse shoe bend when the cache is to the north of the canyon...after 2 miles the map completey changed and the goto route said to proceed north...

 

The last two caches I have found I havent even looked at the map screen I look at the distance to target numbers if they are decreaseing I heep going but I need to walk grids to get this to work...

 

I did see a few hints here on the forums I am not in hiway mode and I did recalibrate the compass MANY times and it makes no difference...

 

This seems to be somthing new the first month I owned this gps It would lead me to a needle in a hay field, so it seems somthing has changed...

 

What am I doing wrong? Thanks

[+Lil Devil]

Two things I can think of quickly are recalibrate your compass (I see you did this) and make sure you have "lock on road" turned off.

 

Another thing, in the default configuration, IMO the GPS tries to use it's internal compass way too much. When you're actually moving, using the old-fashioned method of determining bearing based on direction of travel is much more effective. In Setup >> Heading I prefer to set my GPS to "Switch to compass heading when below 1mph for more than 5sec. Then it only uses the marginally effective electronic compass when you actually stop moving.

[+THEHIWAYMAN]

A Ha I see,,, I just fixed that 1 mph at 5 seconds... I was curious if the compass recalibration was really doing any thing I was under the impression that the accuracy was acheived via sateleites not a compass.

 

I have been seeing all kinds of stuff about hard resets and firm ware updates is this somthing else I need to do on a reg basis... I not very techy on this stuff... I was proud when I found the power button.

[+russellvt]

As Lil'Devil said, a lot can be solved by turning the internal compass off (just push and hold the Page button (the one with the star) for five seconds to toggle it. Make sure that the icon also disappears from the upper left of the screen...

 

If you like the internal compass (tends to work well for me, at times) ... make sure you're not carrying anything that may affect the magnetic field (even a cell phone too close to the GPS can easily throw it off). But I like Lil'Devil's idea of just setting the time pretty far down... at its default settings, we've seen the thing turn itself on while we're out on a 4wd trail (and it's not even close to accurate, then).

[+storm180]

Check out this thread.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=195195&hl=

 

There are a lot of us who had this happen and would fix itself after recalibration or powering unit on then off. Not sure what causes it.

[+THEHIWAYMAN]

Wow!!! just read that thread Got a little HOt there. some posters just get a kick on how high their total post numer is BIG deal!!! how bout answering the pertinent guestion.... OH NO what did I just do.... my post number went up and I just made an Ultimate fighting series post!!!

 

JUST KIDDING thanks for the info

[+storm180]

Hehe the thing was a solution never came up. I reported the issue to Garmin. I have not seen it happen again since I originally made that post. I had two incidents but none since then.

[+THEHIWAYMAN]

That what I was afraid of (no solution)... My gps is so messed up Ill try anything at this point.

I just now updated to 3.70. I dont see any changes made between version 3.60 and 3.70 specificaly designed to adress these issue but im gonna try it.

 

One observation I had was on the sat page turning off the sat recievr and clicking new location update might be of some help. I had travelled from Maine to Arizona and then Az back to Me. I wonder if any other users had travelled long distance with out recalibrating this. I just went out to see if the acuracy was any better. It almost seems that it was but ill have to put it to a cache test tomorrow.

[+russellvt]

One observation I had was on the sat page turning off the sat recievr and clicking new location update might be of some help. I had travelled from Maine to Arizona and then Az back to Me. I wonder if any other users had travelled long distance with out recalibrating this. I just went out to see if the acuracy was any better. It almost seems that it was but ill have to put it to a cache test tomorrow.

We did a 6k mile trip a few weeks back and I never really had problems... then again, I tend to use the compass a lot, so I recalibrate it pretty much daily or after we've been in the car (not caching) for a while (or whenever it seems to be freaking out or not-quite-indicating what I'm expecting).

[+THEHIWAYMAN]

I spend a lot of time in the woods not just caching in some pretty remote areas... What would happen if this problem came up and a party member was injured and we needed to get out fast... It seems like the GPS system was designed for more life and death cenarios. Not just GC'n There must be an answer.The sat system has spent trillions of$$$ it should work 99.999% of the time. IMO

[+russellvt]

I spend a lot of time in the woods not just caching in some pretty remote areas... What would happen if this problem came up and a party member was injured and we needed to get out fast... It seems like the GPS system was designed for more life and death cenarios. Not just GC'n There must be an answer.The sat system has spent trillions of$$$ it should work 99.999% of the time. IMO

 

I believe the real answer is something along the lines of the GPS not being a substitute for good and proper orienteering and navigational skills and training. There have been several recent news stories, too, basically accusing things like GPS (among other technologies) as "dumbing down society" in-general.

 

But yeah... I have an old Military-style GPS, still, that's pretty much simply coordinates and waypoints... the "luxuries" of the thing only include features such as "Velocity Made Good" (VMG) and a few pieces related to current bearing (all through satellite). It was always used as a tool for returning to a known location or for projecting waypoints from a scaled map as a navigational aid (yeah... requires a bit of math - scary, eh?).

Edited August 23, 2008 by russellvt

[+Prime Suspect]

That what I was afraid of (no solution)... My gps is so messed up Ill try anything at this point.

I just now updated to 3.70. I dont see any changes made between version 3.60 and 3.70 specificaly designed to adress these issue but im gonna try it.

 

One observation I had was on the sat page turning off the sat recievr and clicking new location update might be of some help. I had travelled from Maine to Arizona and then Az back to Me. I wonder if any other users had travelled long distance with out recalibrating this. I just went out to see if the acuracy was any better. It almost seems that it was but ill have to put it to a cache test tomorrow.

You do know that it only works accurately if it's held flat and level, right?

[+storm180]

That what I was afraid of (no solution)... My gps is so messed up Ill try anything at this point.

I just now updated to 3.70. I dont see any changes made between version 3.60 and 3.70 specificaly designed to adress these issue but im gonna try it.

 

One observation I had was on the sat page turning off the sat recievr and clicking new location update might be of some help. I had travelled from Maine to Arizona and then Az back to Me. I wonder if any other users had travelled long distance with out recalibrating this. I just went out to see if the acuracy was any better. It almost seems that it was but ill have to put it to a cache test tomorrow.

You do know that it only works accurately if it's held flat and level, right?

 

That has nothing to do with it. It actually flips 180 degrees and pointing the opposite direction of the cache. It has been held level and its sudden like it happened to me on both occasions as soon as I went to find next from the found screen. Accuracy of holding flat is only reference to the compass not the pointing of the red arrow towards the cache. I even turned off the compass and it was still doing the same thing.

[+russellvt]

One observation I had was on the sat page turning off the sat recievr and clicking new location update might be of some help. I had travelled from Maine to Arizona and then Az back to Me. I wonder if any other users had travelled long distance with out recalibrating this. I just went out to see if the acuracy was any better. It almost seems that it was but ill have to put it to a cache test tomorrow.

You do know that it only works accurately if it's held flat and level, right?

 

That has nothing to do with it. It actually flips 180 degrees and pointing the opposite direction of the cache. It has been held level and its sudden like it happened to me on both occasions as soon as I went to find next from the found screen. Accuracy of holding flat is only reference to the compass not the pointing of the red arrow towards the cache. I even turned off the compass and it was still doing the same thing.

For what it's worth, my GPSMap 60CSx also doesn't like being held in any orientation except for flat, either, when the magnetic compass is engaged. I generally carry both a bag and a lanyard which either keep me from dropping the GPS and/or serve as a great holding place when I'm not looking at the thing... in any case, there have been times where I'm "navigating" with the compass and, after coming off the lanyard or out of the bag, the compass can't gather its brains until it's recalibrated... it'll literally be blank until then.

 

So yeah... I can testify that it's a problem somewhere in the hardware and is fairly reproducible... maybe I'm an exception rather than the rule, but it doesn't sound like a completely uncommon problem, IMO.

[+Mudfrog]

That what I was afraid of (no solution)... My gps is so messed up Ill try anything at this point.

I just now updated to 3.70. I dont see any changes made between version 3.60 and 3.70 specificaly designed to adress these issue but im gonna try it.

 

One observation I had was on the sat page turning off the sat recievr and clicking new location update might be of some help. I had travelled from Maine to Arizona and then Az back to Me. I wonder if any other users had travelled long distance with out recalibrating this. I just went out to see if the acuracy was any better. It almost seems that it was but ill have to put it to a cache test tomorrow.

You do know that it only works accurately if it's held flat and level, right?

 

My question is, why even turn on the compass?

 

I can't imagine a time when the electronic compass would ever be needed to find a cache or get a bearing. It's simply not needed and, imo, is more of a novelty than anything else. Yes, a compass can be a lifesaver but i'd much rather have a more reliable stand alone magnetic compass than one that relied on batteries and you having to calibrate it each time you changed those batteries...

[+russellvt]

You do know that it only works accurately if it's held flat and level, right?

My question is, why even turn on the compass?

Well, if you want to see GZ, it's probably the fastest way to see "distance to goal" hit 0... at least from the GPS' perspective (which, of course, is prone to normal variance and error - some possibly the fault of the original hider)

[+THEHIWAYMAN]

I believe the real answer is something along the lines of the GPS not being a substitute for good and proper orienteering and navigational skills and training. There have been several recent news stories, too, basically accusing things like GPS (among other technologies) as "dumbing down society" in-general.

 

supposed to be a quote above what the @#$%^&* how you do???

 

I agree! I had to stop and think about what I was saying here. I have only owned a GPSr for a little over a year and a half and Im 37. I wonder how I ever made it into the desert or out of the woods .

wait a minute a magnetic compass and maps that I learned how to use in boy scouts.

 

As much as I love new tech stuff we really are getting soft...

 

In my bussiness I needs to find several adresses a-day (Oil heat service) Ive been doing this for 13 years and have alway found what I need via Maps or just asking! no "turn right now..." bla bla bla.

But I do get a chUckle I do have a few younger drivers that cant find a-way out if town without the computer saying what way to go...

 

Dont get me wrong I not an anti technology nut (Im here right...)but we sure get upset when the easy button batteries go dead....

 

OK, back on Track!!! Now FIX MY GPSR - Over and out

[+THEHIWAYMAN]

PS, HOW DO YOU QUOTE

[+coggins]

supposed to be a quote above what the @#$%^&* how you do???

PS, HOW DO YOU QUOTE

Try the [Reply] button below and to the right of a message ad see if that works for you.

[+Prime Suspect]

That what I was afraid of (no solution)... My gps is so messed up Ill try anything at this point.

I just now updated to 3.70. I dont see any changes made between version 3.60 and 3.70 specificaly designed to adress these issue but im gonna try it.

 

One observation I had was on the sat page turning off the sat recievr and clicking new location update might be of some help. I had travelled from Maine to Arizona and then Az back to Me. I wonder if any other users had travelled long distance with out recalibrating this. I just went out to see if the acuracy was any better. It almost seems that it was but ill have to put it to a cache test tomorrow.

You do know that it only works accurately if it's held flat and level, right?

 

That has nothing to do with it. It actually flips 180 degrees and pointing the opposite direction of the cache. It has been held level and its sudden like it happened to me on both occasions as soon as I went to find next from the found screen. Accuracy of holding flat is only reference to the compass not the pointing of the red arrow towards the cache. I even turned off the compass and it was still doing the same thing.

How do you think the unit knows the position to orient the red arrow? It USES THE COMPASS. The positioning of the navigation arrow is done by combining information from the GPS (the bearing) and the compass (to determine orientation of the unit). If the compass is turned off, you have to be moving in a straight line, with the unit pointed directly ahead of you (in the direction of travel), so the unit's "faux compass" can work.

[+storm180]

That what I was afraid of (no solution)... My gps is so messed up Ill try anything at this point.

I just now updated to 3.70. I dont see any changes made between version 3.60 and 3.70 specificaly designed to adress these issue but im gonna try it.

 

One observation I had was on the sat page turning off the sat recievr and clicking new location update might be of some help. I had travelled from Maine to Arizona and then Az back to Me. I wonder if any other users had travelled long distance with out recalibrating this. I just went out to see if the acuracy was any better. It almost seems that it was but ill have to put it to a cache test tomorrow.

You do know that it only works accurately if it's held flat and level, right?

 

That has nothing to do with it. It actually flips 180 degrees and pointing the opposite direction of the cache. It has been held level and its sudden like it happened to me on both occasions as soon as I went to find next from the found screen. Accuracy of holding flat is only reference to the compass not the pointing of the red arrow towards the cache. I even turned off the compass and it was still doing the same thing.

How do you think the unit knows the position to orient the red arrow? It USES THE COMPASS. The positioning of the navigation arrow is done by combining information from the GPS (the bearing) and the compass (to determine orientation of the unit). If the compass is turned off, you have to be moving in a straight line, with the unit pointed directly ahead of you (in the direction of travel), so the unit's "faux compass" can work.

 

Yes even holding it flat the arrow pointing the exact opposite all the way to the cache it never corrected itself. So as I was walking towards the cache the feet would decrease but the arrow still pointed behind me. Recalibrated and it fixed the issue but prior to when it messed up it was working fine and being held flat. All I did was hit find next and it went backwards.

[+russellvt]

That has nothing to do with it. It actually flips 180 degrees and pointing the opposite direction of the cache. It has been held level and its sudden like it happened to me on both occasions as soon as I went to find next from the found screen. Accuracy of holding flat is only reference to the compass not the pointing of the red arrow towards the cache. I even turned off the compass and it was still doing the same thing.

How do you think the unit knows the position to orient the red arrow? It USES THE COMPASS. The positioning of the navigation arrow is done by combining information from the GPS (the bearing) and the compass (to determine orientation of the unit). If the compass is turned off, you have to be moving in a straight line, with the unit pointed directly ahead of you (in the direction of travel), so the unit's "faux compass" can work.

Actually, I think this is slightly misleading... the orientation of the GPS (at least the 60CSx) doesn't really matter except when the electronic compass is turned on... case-in-point: many of the mounts manufactured for it tend to hold the GPS in vertical or near-vertical orientations... and while navigating from the passenger seat of the Jeep, I tend to lay the thing sideways against the passenger's safety bar (or the dash). The direction of travel is assumed to be towards the top of the GPS by default (though this is also settable from the "Map Setup | General" tab).

 

You can test this yourself by first turning OFF the electronic compass... then start walking in a straight line. Spin the GPS in to any orientation you like and the arrow will always point towards the top of the GPS and in the direction of travel.

 

Next, turn ON the electronic compass and attempt the same (note: the default settings mean you have to do this at walking speeds). The only thing that should happen is that the arrow within the window will rotate according to the direction you point the top of the GPS (but the overall direction of travel should still remain at the top of the screen). And yes, the GPS might slightly "correct" some of the directional info according to Garmin's own top-secret algorithms (*grins*).

Edited August 25, 2008 by russellvt

[+sduck]

I've made around 1k cache finds using a gps60c with no compass. When I finally upgraded to a csx a few months ago, I found that turning the compass off was much easier to deal with than figuring out the nuances of using the compass for geocaching. And I use the map screen for finding my way to ground zero.

[+Prime Suspect]

How do you think the unit knows the position to orient the red arrow? It USES THE COMPASS. The positioning of the navigation arrow is done by combining information from the GPS (the bearing) and the compass (to determine orientation of the unit). If the compass is turned off, you have to be moving in a straight line, with the unit pointed directly ahead of you (in the direction of travel), so the unit's "faux compass" can work.

Actually, I think this is slightly misleading... the orientation of the GPS (at least the 60CSx) doesn't really matter except when the electronic compass is turned on... case-in-point: many of the mounts manufactured for it tend to hold the GPS in vertical or near-vertical orientations... and while navigating from the passenger seat of the Jeep, I tend to lay the thing sideways against the passenger's safety bar (or the dash). The direction of travel is assumed to be towards the top of the GPS by default (though this is also settable from the "Map Setup | General" tab).

 

You can test this yourself by first turning OFF the electronic compass... then start walking in a straight line. Spin the GPS in to any orientation you like and the arrow will always point towards the top of the GPS and in the direction of travel.

 

Next, turn ON the electronic compass and attempt the same (note: the default settings mean you have to do this at walking speeds). The only thing that should happen is that the arrow within the window will rotate according to the direction you point the top of the GPS (but the overall direction of travel should still remain at the top of the screen). And yes, the GPS might slightly "correct" some of the directional info according to Garmin's own top-secret algorithms (*grins*).

You're forgetting the the whole reason of the navigation arrow is to point to the destination target. So if you turn the compass off, walk in a straight line, and turn the GPS 45 degrees to the left, the arrow will be pointing 45 degrees off what it should be. It is NOT pointing in the direction of travel, assuming you were walking towards the target. My point is still correct - the GPS has to use the compass (electronic or inferred) to correctly orient the navigation arrow.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Prime Suspect

[+russellvt]

Actually, I think this is slightly misleading... the orientation of the GPS (at least the 60CSx) doesn't really matter except when the electronic compass is turned on...

You're forgetting the the whole reason of the navigation arrow is to point to the destination target. So if you turn the compass off, walk in a straight line, and turn the GPS 45 degrees to the left, the arrow will be pointing 45 degrees off what it should be. It is NOT pointing in the direction of travel, assuming you were walking towards the target. My point is still correct - the GPS has to use the compass (electronic or inferred) to correctly orient the navigation arrow.

You are correct in that it "uses the compass" -- that's a given. I was merely pointing out that it's slightly misleading depending on direction of travel versus orientation and mode of GPS (ie. there are a few assumptions made there and, being able to correctly interpret them is essential - it's still pointing correctly (and turning on the course pointer on the compass screen may or may not help). Myself, especially when navigating in the Jeep on a long road trip... I end up looking sideways at the thing most of the time -- still works, but you have to realize "it's sideways."

[+THEHIWAYMAN]

Hello All...

 

Well I started this mess by asking... sorry for the Drama...

 

I went GC'n saturday after a few changes found 5 ground zero's and my GPSr worked flawlessly... Just like it did the first month I had it... I dont now what changed but this is what I did...

 

1- Switch to compass heading when below 1mph for more than 5sec.

 

2- update to version 3.70 .I realize that they did not really specify any changes to how the unit navigates but I tried it just in case

 

3- Try to navigate with the electronic compass off.After finding GZ I walked a hundred feet away from Gz and tried again. Worked the same with the same accuracy either way....

 

4- from the satelite screen shut sat reciever off then reaquired position under (new location)

 

5- enabled WAAS not sure about this still reading up on what it does, but I did see the the 60csx will switch automatically if waas is not Available, so It cant hurt to try.

 

It seems to good to be true kinda and Im not sure wich of these if any did the trick. At least for know It is working Perfectly just as it once did... I will be out again soon and will report back if things Go NUTZ again

 

Thank You for all the good ideas....

 

Thehiwayman

[+russellvt]

Hello All...

 

Well I started this mess by asking... sorry for the Drama...

 

I went GC'n saturday after a few changes found 5 ground zero's and my GPSr worked flawlessly... Just like it did the first month I had it... I dont now what changed but this is what I did...

 

1- Switch to compass heading when below 1mph for more than 5sec.

 

2- update to version 3.70 .I realize that they did not really specify any changes to how the unit navigates but I tried it just in case

 

3- Try to navigate with the electronic compass off.After finding GZ I walked a hundred feet away from Gz and tried again. Worked the same with the same accuracy either way....

 

4- from the satelite screen shut sat reciever off then reaquired position under (new location)

 

5- enabled WAAS not sure about this still reading up on what it does, but I did see the the 60csx will switch automatically if waas is not Available, so It cant hurt to try.

 

It seems to good to be true kinda and Im not sure wich of these if any did the trick. At least for know It is working Perfectly just as it once did... I will be out again soon and will report back if things Go NUTZ again

 

Thank You for all the good ideas....

 

Thehiwayman

Bah... no real drama (in my opinion); seemed like a pretty reasonable discussion, overall... (I certainly didn't mind it) Welcome to the (in)sanity, eh?

 

I had thought about recommending WAAS to you... certainly hasn't seemed to make anything worse for me, either (and there are occasions where it improves things significantly).

 

Garmin's 3.60 update indicated a fix to the compass... not sure if that affected you, though -- I know there was a time where I ended up missing an update and then later caught up.

 

Maybe your belt or some part of your clothing had a magnetic charge (or were in an area with powerlines, etc) and it threw off the compass for a while... /shrug I know I ended up dropping my unit at one point (it's usually at least on a lanyard) and felt it was "a bit inaccurate" for a time thereafter -- but, either I was just being overly critical or it ended up fixing itself. Either way... seems to work, now (which had me worried for a bit).

 

Anyway... glad to hear that your compass seems to be working again!