Garmin Colorado vs. Rest of Line?

[zmanfam]

Just want to get some input from anyone out there with a Garmin Colorado unit who has used other Garmin models also. I am new and seriously want to buy in and using a single piece of equipment has my vote, but have read alot of mixed reviews about the Colorados. Can anyone enlighten me?

[+briansnat]

Moving this the the GPS forum where the GPS enthusiasts lurk and can help.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

How are you going to use it? Just geocaching?

[yogazoo]

Honestly if you're going to use the Colorado to Geocache then go for it. The paperless caching is the bees knees. However if you are going to be using the unit for other things such as hunting, backpacking, off trail navigation, you may take pause. I have used every model of Garmin from the old B+W Legend on up through the Vistas, 60CS, 60CSX, and now a Colorado 300.

 

Honestly, I'm torn. I like the larger display and some of the features are definately an improvement for me but my uses are 10% geocaching, 20% Hunting, 20% street navigation, 20% hiking/backpacking, and 20% data collection. I can say that Garmin could make the Colorado's alot better with the addition of more track feature options, waypoint averaging, and for god sake they need to address the drift problem. I'm still holding my breath but not for much longer. I'll be taking a long hard look at the Delorme PN-40 due out in October. It claims to have paperless caching ability and may be more stable than the Colorado upon release. It may also have some of the features that Garmin left off the Colorado. It will have a three axis compass, waypoint averaging and satellite imagery which are big pluses for me. The downside? A smaller screen.

[+Marky]

The downside? A smaller screen.

Assuming that the PN-40 uses the same screen resolution as the PN-20, that is a 2.2" 220x176 pixel screen.

The colorado (and the oregon) have a 3" 240x400 pixel screen. That's nearly 3 times the number of pixels.

 

I do like the $29.95 a year Map Library subscription option for unlimited access to all of Delorme's nice map imagery. I think that's a very reasonable price. From everything I hear, the PN-40 is going to be a serious contender.

 

--Marky

[+NoHandsGPS]

I also started out with a b/w etrex legend. Then I bought a legend Cx. I used it for a couple months until I bought a used 60c. Now the 60 series is where I would have stopped had it not been for a 40% off coupon at best buy. 2 weeks ago I bought a colorado 300. I have used it a couple times for geocaching. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the 60c on the trail. I save my tracks and upload them to google earth. there is definately some great features on the colorado.

 

On the 60c I liked the bottons being on the face instead of being located on the sides. It looks like wheel on the CO 300 will be just as good.

[+adamsloco]

I currently own a Colorado and a Legend Hcx. I much prefer the Legend. The Colorado has lots of great features, especially for geocaching. I like having everything in one device -- actually, that's why I bought it, to get everything in one device, and not have to bring the Palm with me. However, for me the core issue is accuracy, and the Colorado just isn't as accurate as the Legend Hcx is. Both in perceived accuracy (The satellite accuracy is generally 2 - 4 metres tighter for the Legend over the Colorado, even when the Colorado is held vertical, which does improve the accuracy. And in actual accuracy, too. On one recent Geocaching trip, I took both along for comparison. After finding the cache, I repeated the search from 75m out with both units, several times each. On 2 out of the three tries, the Colorado reached a point where it said that I was 8m away with an accuracy of 6m. But, the arrow was pointing behind me, when the cache was still about 4m in front of me. I never had that with the Legend. If I was outside the accuracy range, the arrow pointed in the correct direction.

 

(I am sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but my experience has told me that if I have an accuracy of 6m and I am 8m away, then the cache should be somewhere between 2 and 14m away. And up to 6m on each side of me, but NOT behind me.)

 

Adam

[zmanfam]

I am very greatful for the input here. I am very much torn on what to buy. Paperless sounds great with an all in one, but I am a newbie and need accuracy. I have not completely backed out from considering the 60csx or either of the HCX models. I keep hearing the same things and there are too many negatives in my mind to justify the price differenceof the colorado over these older units. I will be using this mostly for geocaching and backpacking/hiking. Keep the info coming please because your input is priceless. Thank you in advance.

[eaparks]

I am very greatful for the input here. I am very much torn on what to buy. Paperless sounds great with an all in one, but I am a newbie and need accuracy. I have not completely backed out from considering the 60csx or either of the HCX models. I keep hearing the same things and there are too many negatives in my mind to justify the price differenceof the colorado over these older units. I will be using this mostly for geocaching and backpacking/hiking. Keep the info coming please because your input is priceless. Thank you in advance.

 

I use the 60CSx and for an all around GPS I have been very pleased with it. At it's present cost of around $300 it is probably one of the best buys for your money in the Garmin family when it comes to accuracy, drift, and other issues experienced by other models. I listen to everyones complaints but to me the most attention doesn't seem to be given to the most serious problem with other units (Vista HCx, Colorado, and Oregon still in question) and that is the problems associated with drift and accuracy, after all why have a GPS if accuracy and drift aren't the 2 most important factors in a handheld unit. Reasonable repeatability for accuracy and tracking are an absolute must. As with the launch of all new Garmin GPSs there are always bugs with them. Most all of the bugs were fixed with software updates within the first 6 months of release on the 60x and 76x series, it has now been about 8 months and it appears that the Colorado is still not satisfactory for most users on here. Still to early to see what type of reputation the Oregon will live with.

 

The high resolution dem data and screens on the CO and Oregon look great if you want to use 100% backlight most of the time. The screen appearance is sort of like a good woman, the appearance is only skin deep and someone better looking will always come along but what really counts is what is inside and the CO and Oregon can't begin to compare with the 60x and 76x series inside where it counts. The pretty screen and the paperless caching capablilty are the only things that the CO and Oregon really have going for them plus the fact that they are the latest, not greatest units out at an astronomical price tag of around $499.

 

Unfortunatley, we the public have become the eyes for Garmin's beta testing, but Garmin is deaf in one ear as to what it's handheld customer base is screaming. It bugs me for a new product to be released in manufacturing that carries such a high price tag as the CO and Oregon (supposedly top of the line) to come out with soooooo many problems and I don't even own one; so much for my 2 cents.

Edited August 22, 2008 by eaparks

[jmedlock]

... but to me the most attention doesn't seem to be given to the most serious problem with other units (Vista HCx, Colorado, and Oregon still in question) and that is the problems associated with drift and accuracy, after all why have a GPS if accuracy and drift aren't the 2 most important factors in a handheld unit. Reasonable repeatability for accuracy and tracking are an absolute must.

 

Amen....

[yogazoo]

Unfortunatley, we the public have become the eyes for Garmin's beta testing, but Garmin is deaf in one ear as to what it's handheld customer base is screaming. It bugs me for a new product to be released in manufacturing that carries such a high price tag as the CO and Oregon (supposedly top of the line) to come out with soooooo many problems and I don't even own one; so much for my 2 cents.

 

Well said eaparks! I agree, where's the outrage? Instead we get a bunch of folks making excuses as to why features A, B.and C are left out or why features X, Y, and Z don't work as advertised.

 

To me it seems that Garmin has the market on the Car Navigation units and they really don't need the outdoor handheld lines. They skimp on the resources they put into the handheld models because it isn't their moneymaker. Delorme, on the other hand seems to be sinking alot into the handheld line, and putting alot of effort forward because it's basically all they've got (as far as GPS units). They put alot of resources into perfecting and improving the units and it really shows. I feel a leader shift in the handheld market and Garmin has only themselves to blame for losing the trophy.

Edited August 22, 2008 by yogazoo

[zmanfam]

Thanks eaparks! I think that the deal is about sealed and maybe the 60csx is the best game in town at the moment. I wish Garmin could get it right with the Colorado/Oregons because they are on the right track , just not all the way there. I need to get started soon because me and the kids have got the bug and can't wait to get out and cache in. Thank you again everyone for the input so far. Feel free to continue to chime in as I am not purchasing until Monday.

[+facade66]

I have an eTrex Vista HCX, and "upgraded " to a Colorado 300.

 

To date I have been very disappointed with the Colorado.

 

Yes the screen is bigger and clearer, and Topo looks much better: the roads look like roads, paths like paths etc. but, mine takes an eternity to draw the map!

Changing scale results in a blank screen for ages. Once the map is drawn, whilst walking it can keep up.

 

The compass has a mind of its own. I suspect that this is caused by position glitches that make it think I have moved in a direction fast enough to switch the magnetic compass off. At the moment, you cannot disable the autoswitching, or adjust the threshold speed.

 

Data entry is hellishly slow with the scroll wheel compared to the joystick of the Vista.

The Colorado is much bigger, and has no wrist strap fixing point: the caribiner attachment point is bulky, and has to be removed to change batteries, which the Colorado eats very quickly.

I can't find a bicycle mount, but I wouldn't be happy with something that big on the handlebars anyway.

 

Seeking a cache, the Vista has the edge, because it doesn't suffer from the erratic compass behaviour (but it has the same GPS chip...) When standing at the cache, the two units agree. (on distance if not direction!)

 

I did an extensive field test yesterday, 6 caches in an afternoon, and was pleased with the paperless mode, I had downloaded every cache within 10 miles of the two places we were visiting, and used the paperless mode to discover caches that we were close to. The ones I had printed off we didn't visit

 

However, I soon found the shortcoming of the Colorado and paperless mode:

 

When solving a puzzle, if you have the memory retention of a goldfish, you cannot remember the co-ordinates, as you cannot overlay a co-ordinate entry screen, luckily we had the Vista to enter them into, using the Colorado to display the questions and base co-ordinates.

 

This might be user error now, but I can't see an easy way of knowing which caches I found, unless I write the names down on paper anyway!

 

 

I think the Vista is a better unit overall. Having the Colorado as well yesterday was a bonus, but I suspect that simply having a PDA with all the data stored would have been as useful.

 

I did consider the 60CSX, but it is a much larger unit, not really suited to a bike mount (I use mine as a speed/distance computer with track storage): which is why I originally bought the Vista. The vista is more suited to stealth: I too have pretended to be on a mobile 'phone whilst using it.

Edited August 23, 2008 by facade66

[yogazoo]

facade66, it sounds like you are running older unit software. Not being able to turn the compass off was an old school problem from when the unit was first intro'd. Same with map drawing, older problem. What version are you running?

[+Night-Ranger]

I wanted to add my thoughts on the Oregon. I love it. It is extremely cool! I had the same reservations as others about #1 accuracy and #2 screen brightness. After owning for 3 weeks here are my observations.

 

The accuracy is a non-issue. I geocache with 2 buddies who both have a 60CSX. Most of the time, my Oregon had a better GZ than either of The 60CSX. Another point about accuracy is the Oregon is pretty rock solid in its analysis. Not too much jumping around like on the 60CSX. I had the Sat screen up on both and the 60 constantly gave a new coordinate every second or so while the Oregon stayed locked on the same number for several minutes. This has been verified by others as well. I have even had a 1st for me last week, my GZ was dead on the cache (literally 0' off) even though my accuracy of the sats screen showed 26' EPE. I was really concerned about the EPE the Oregon showed because it gives confidence if you have a low number. On the previous software, I was averaging about a 20-30 RPR. (Quick test on the new software showed a 12-20' EPE like the 60CSX usually gave me. However, I am starting to really trust the Oregon to direct me to the cache regardless of EPE. On the WAAS issue, the new version seems to have helped mine get WAAS better. But honestly, WAAS has not shown me any better accuracy readings. I think it gives me again more confidence in the accuracy but not necessarily better accuracy. As far as finding caches, I have had no problem finding a cache since I had my Oregon.

 

On to number 2. The screen could be brighter and better. That being said, I love it as is. I was prepared not to get the Oregon because of the screen. When I went to REI and actually looked at it, I decided on the spot to get it. It is better than I imagined and better than some have described in the Wiki. Honestly, I have not had any problems with the screen brightness. I even have to turn the back-light way down at night cause it is too bright. During the day, I have a profile set up to turn the color of the background off and call it "Day Drive" and Day Caching".

 

Other great things are the profile button which changes your options for driving, caching or hiking, the geocache counter-which keeps a tally of caches found (either daily, weekly, monthly or however you decide), And finally the touch screen itself for text input is awesome-like no other GPS out there. Plus the ability to upload caches directly into geocaching.com for quick logging is a feature I never want to do without again. I just upload my field notes and it uploads all caches and notes into my account. No more writing down what caches I have done or trying to remember what that bug number was.

 

I hope this helps answer your question as to whether or not to get it. I recommend it to my friends and would give it 4.5/5 stars.

[+facade66]

I thought my Colorado was running the latest software:

 

Software Version 2.60 GPS Software version 2.60.

I have all of TOPO GB on a 2gb Sandisk Ultra III SD card

 

I do know that I can upload my field log, including finds, but I haven't the patience (or possibly the lifespan!) to enter any meaningful comment with the thumbwheel: a touch screen keypad and stylus would be fine, so I guess the Oregon has that one covered.

 

I would like to disable the GPS compass when standing or walking slowly- the magnetic should work fine.

 

I do have the option to disable magnetic or switch to auto, but I can't adjust the threshold speed and time for auto like on the HCX.

 

Why magnetic only?

 

1) I'm near a cache.

The GPS knows where I am, where the cache is, and which way the unit is pointing (because of the magnetic compass), so it can draw an arrow pointed at the cache.

 

2) I'm standing still, trying to figure out where everything is, I want the map to be track up, so I can relate what I see to the display, I turn, the map turns with me. With the Colorado now, the map orientation changes erratically.

[+Prime Suspect]

I even have to turn the back-light way down at night cause it is too bright. During the day, I have a profile set up to turn the color of the background off and call it "Day Drive" and Day Caching".

If you have to turn off the color to see it in daylight, it's an issue. You shouldn't have to do that. Have you seen a 60C(S)X in bright daylight?

[+Night-Ranger]

In response to the person above, who said it was a problem if you have to turn the shading off,

Have you actually compared the maps, screens and color of the Oregon versus the 60 CSX. I agree that it would be nicer to have it be full blown brightness like my Nuvi during the day. For whatever reason, at this point, that does not exist.

 

The maps have SO MUCH more detail and the shading is like gravy on a Chicken Fried Steak. It is fun to have but not essential. Even without it, my buddies are envious of the map detail and size.

 

If you compare the screen in any aspect except for the brightness in bright daylight, the Oregon wins. I don't "need" to turn of the background color off to see it. I choose to do that. Just like we have options on everything else, we have the option to turn off the color if we want. I can still use it just fine without turning it off.

 

I would say it is really a non issue for me. I like it and yes, I used to own a 60CSX. I like this better in every aspect. I love the color of the screen and the ability to really use it as my primary GPS in my car driving so the wife can use the Nuvi The colors on the 60CSX seem muted and dull to me compared to the vibrant colors of the Oregon.

 

On another note, After a day of caching and driving with the new software, I am realizing a 9-13'EPE most of the time. That is much better than seeing the 30' all the time! Plus the WAAS is locking for the first time without effort quickly and reliably. Thank you Garmin!

Edited August 23, 2008 by night-ranger

[zmanfam]

Thanks again for all of the feedback. I am sold on the 60CSx for now and I am going to hold off for Garmin to get all of the problems/gliches out of the Orgons/Colorados. I have seen more solid positive replies and posts in these forums for the 60CSx than any other unit and that says something. The Colorado and Oregon are both awesome units and have a ton of potential, but that's alot of money to spend to accept the issues that come with them. Now, I just can't wait for FedEx to get here with my new unit tomorrow so I can begin the adventure. My wife and kids are psyched. I can't wait to get started.

[+Prime Suspect]

If you compare the screen in any aspect except for the brightness in bright daylight, the Oregon wins. I don't "need" to turn of the background color off to see it. I choose to do that.

Riiiiiiiiight.

[+YBLee]

Good choice zmanfam! You will not be sorry.

[+flarbear]

This might be user error now, but I can't see an easy way of knowing which caches I found, unless I write the names down on paper anyway!

Just in case this is user error - you do know to use the "Log Attempt" entry in the Options menu when you find a cache, no? It marks it as Found (or you can choose Not Found or Needs Maintenance) and then it will show up with a different icon on the map and it won't show up in the "nearest" lists.

 

If you upgrade to the latest software (2.6) you can even enter a comment to remind yourself about something you want to write in your log later (I wouldn't recommend the scroll wheel for much more than a word or two, though).

[zmanfam]

Awesome choice on my part. PCNation had it w/overnight for about $300 and I got it yesterday. Went out on first shot and found 3 caches locally (and 2 that my family would not enter the unbeaten path for and I will later)! Found my first Geocoin also and I am hooked...I should say we are hooked. My kids have not stopped asking when we are going back out...today of course. Very accurate and easy to use. Thanks again and I will still be lurking, waiting for Garmin to step up to the plate and complete what they have started with the Colorados and Oregons.

[naenee]

Thank you for this thread. Though I have done something similar to geocaching with Scouting, I have never owned my own GPS, nor did I know of the geocaching websites out there. The whole 'treasure hunting' aspect really speaks to me. And since I too have been looking at the Garmin 60csx, I'm just reading all threads/reviews/articles on it I can find, checking out any other model/brand mentioned in comparisons to see if they are better for me. So far the 60csx seems to be at the top of my list, but I'll keep reading. I almost ordered it yesterday, but as there's no real rush to have it, I'm giving myself some more days of pouring over what's available on GPS devices.

[+natgild]

I just purchased an Oregon 400t. One of the first times I turned it on, it was .5 miles off from the correct location on the topo map. My GPSMAP 76CSx sitting right next to it was right on. I contacted Garmin support and received a response that in part read... "The Oregon 400T comes preloaded with topography mapping which has street detail as well, however this street detail is not to scale and will show as if it is "off" in some locations." I was pretty surprised that Garmin consider .5 mile a little "off". Apparently they aren't too concerned about their accuracy.

[+Firefishe]

I just purchased an Oregon 400t. One of the first times I turned it on, it was .5 miles off from the correct location on the topo map. My GPSMAP 76CSx sitting right next to it was right on. I contacted Garmin support and received a response that in part read... "The Oregon 400T comes preloaded with topography mapping which has street detail as well, however this street detail is not to scale and will show as if it is "off" in some locations." I was pretty surprised that Garmin consider .5 mile a little "off". Apparently they aren't too concerned about their accuracy.

 

Probably NAD 27 based topography. Garmin could take a lesson from DeLorme. Hmmm. Maybe Garmin should *LICENSE* DeLorme's maps, or provid their own, online downloadable database.

 

It's worth a thought.

 

Firefishe

Caching In On The Journey

[+Firefishe]

I just purchased an Oregon 400t. One of the first times I turned it on, it was .5 miles off from the correct location on the topo map. My GPSMAP 76CSx sitting right next to it was right on. I contacted Garmin support and received a response that in part read... "The Oregon 400T comes preloaded with topography mapping which has street detail as well, however this street detail is not to scale and will show as if it is "off" in some locations." I was pretty surprised that Garmin consider .5 mile a little "off". Apparently they aren't too concerned about their accuracy.

 

Probably NAD 27 based topography. WGS84 should've been adopted already, but sometimes lags occur. But for the Oregon, and such a late product at that?

 

Incidentally, street detail might be better with City Navigator, simply due to the auto-routing aspect of the maps, which I find to be a bit more accurate. US Topo is a very good concept, but the problem, as always, lies with the raw map data, TIGER being no small part of it. Navteq have, for the most part, helped the accuracy, but I think it's time Garmin started looking toward other service providers for their data when their agreement with Navteq expires.

 

National Geographic has a good product, as well, and Garmin could just as easily license it from them.

 

Garmin could take a lesson from DeLorme, too, perhaps even licensing DeLorme's online maps, or provide their own, online downloadable database with up-to-date topo information.

 

It's worth a thought.

 

Firefishe

Caching In On The Journey

Edited February 20, 2009 by Firefishe

[+myotis]

The statements in the previous post are wrong-the best topo data available is Garmin. The OR/CO 400T come preloaded with topo data based on the 100K USGS maps. This data is simply not very accurate. It is the same data Delorome uses for it vector topo data. However, Garmin includes DEM data so you can show shaded relief which a delorome cannot show. The City Navigotor street maps are quite accurate. If you want street navigation, that is what you need. The topo maps that come with the 400T are not designed for street navigation.

 

Delorome and National Geographic do offer USGS 24K bitmap/raster maps that you have to buy. For Garmin, you can get 24K (or better) VECTOR maps. Garmin is working on getting the entire country covered in 24K vector topo maps. Users are also creating FREE 24K or better topo maps. http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/ These free maps (and the ones Garmin is selling) are far superiour to the maps you have to pay for from Delorome and National Geographic. The difference in VECTOR vs raster is huge and inofitself make the Garmin maps greatly superior to the Delorome/NG maps. However, the Garmin maps are also more accurate and up to date than the Delorome/NG maps.

 

So while the topo maps that come with the 400T are not that accurate, the 24K vector topo maps are by far the best topo maps available.

[+twolpert]

I have not run into any serious issues with the topo data on the CO 400t maps. However, the street data is notoriously inaccurate. I don't think this is the fault of the 1:100K topos. It's the fault of whatever Garmin uses for street data (which is apparently not the 1:100K topos) -- and on the poor vectorization of that street data. Bottom line -- if you want street navigation, buy CN. If you want topo data, the built-in topos on the CO (and, I presume, the OR) should be fine.

 

If you want 1:24K topos, you can buy them from Garmin (if and when they finish the series). They are pricey, though. Originally, they were only available on micro-SD. Some, at least, are now also available on DVD. They're regional -- 2, 3 or 4 states at a time if I recall correctly. DVDs list at $130, SD at $100.

 

There are also free maps available at various places online. No experience with those, so I can't comment as to quality. Some do get good reviews in the forums, though.

[+GeekBoy.from.Illinois]

... If you want topo data, the built-in topos on the CO (and, I presume, the OR) should be fine.

...

 

I happened to have the opportunity to compare the Topo base map files included in a Colorado 400t and an Oregon 400t. Using the "FC" command to perform a binary file compare, the two maps returned to be identical.