Question about editing or deleting FTF log entries

[+gr8johnson]

I placed and submitted a new cache last night. It was published before morning. Some one was at it early this morning. They got to the spot just fine. Credit given, it was 5:30am. The hiding spot is quite easy to find, figuring out how to get the cache out of its hiding spot is really the point of this cache. But the way I have the cache hidden you could see the container from a certain angle ( I will change that soon). But it still takes some figuring out how to get to the container (it is a nano) out. Well the fellow who "found" it stated in the FTF log entry (on line, not the actual log book in the cache) that he could not get to the container so he placed a note near by for his log entry. Well, we emailed back and forth and I explained that he really did not find the cache, that he should go back because he is missing the point of the whole cache, being figuring out how to get to it. He is leaving town today and can not make it back over to it.

 

Okay now that I have told that story here is the question: should I delete the FTF log entry he made on the cache page? Should I let him keep it for just looking at the container and not removing it and signing the log?

Should I contact him first and tell him I am going to delete it if he does not go "find" the container? I do not know the proper thing to do. I do not want to take away from some one elses FTF chance. Thanks. I hope I have not confused any one.

 

This was meant to be a puzzle cache. It really is not.

[+WatchDog2020]

It was not 'found'. I have a multi that is an actual working crypex made out of 4 inch PVC. Sure you found it - but did you 'complete' the cache by opening it?

 

I say no find for him - Placed a note by the cache - you have to be kidding me.

 

Edit:

What did he mean with 'I obeyed the rules which clearly state not to remove it.' This person has 375 finds for Pete sake.

Edited August 20, 2008 by WatchDog2020

[4wheelin_fool]

Most people would delete it.

 

I would just post a note saying "due to a misunderstanding FTF is still available", and just leave it at that.

[+gr8johnson]

What he means is, I wrote on the sign " please do not remove this sign". I put it there so some one would not come along and take the sign down because they do not know what it is. Just like we put on any other Geocache container. Okay I guess I need to point out that the cache involves a sign I put on a pole next to some common signs you might find on a telephone pole. I do not want to get too in to the details but if you want more info contact me.

[AZcachemeister]

Finding a cache has always involved signing the log provided by the owner (in some fashion, virtuals et.al. not withstanding).

Leaving a slip of paper with your name on it nearby is not the same thing.

[+OzzieSan]

I would think a legit FTF would require a signature in the log book?

[Mushtang]

should I delete the FTF log entry he made on the cache page? Should I let him keep it for just looking at the container and not removing it and signing the log?

If it were my cache I'd delete the Find. As I understand it a cache isn't found until the log book is signed. And since he didn't "find" it, he wasn't the "first" to do so either.

[+Lil Devil]

I think that guy should change his "found" log to a "note" and then we he comes back and signs the logsheet he can write a new "found" log.

 

You should also add something to the description saying "you must actually sign the logsheet" or something to that effect.

[+wimseyguy]

He didn't find the cache. He may think he knows where it is, but how can he be sure?

Last Sunday I felt a nano with my fingertips and even felt it shift, but I couldn't remove it from the location and open it to sign the log. I posted a note reporting my experience. I chose to not post a DNF as I was pretty sure I had the correct container. The cache owner offered to sign me in and change my note to a find. I replied that I'll leave my note as it is an actual experience, and will be back for a hopefully easier find the next time I'm on that side of town.

 

Cuz that's how I want to play.

[+whistler & co.]

I would ask him to delete his found log within the next three days, or tell him that you will. He did not FIND it since he never even had the container in his hand, let alone wrote on the logsheet. We have some five-star terrain caches in our part of the state that I am positive I can see, but I doubt I could actually ever touch them...if I happen to drive by and SEE the ammo can up in the tree or out in the lake, did I FIND it too? NOPE!!!!

 

Add to the cache description that "You must initial the logsheet in order to claim this as a find. If I cannot verify your initials on the logsheet, I will delete your online log."

[+briansnat]

No find in my book. I'd ask him to delete his found it and if he refused, delete it myself.

Edited August 20, 2008 by briansnat

[+Shop99er]

No signature in the log book = no find

[+DanOCan]

...figuring out how to get the cache out of its hiding spot is really the point of this cache.

 

That, to me, is the key and why I would delete the log. (To me, whether he was the FTF is irrelevant.) I believe that there are circumstances where not signing the log and still claiming a Find is appropriate, but that is a whole other discussion and not for this thread. In this case, the retrieval is the key to the cache and he clearly admitted he did not retrieve it.

[+gr8johnson]

This is what I have done. I asked when he would be back from his trip. No answer yet. I told him that if he can not sign the log before some one else than he loses the FTF right.

 

I made a note in the cache page stating that due to a misunderstanding that the cache is still open for FTF.

 

I might make a note on the cache page if this comes up from some one else. I do not think every one will have the same problem. I will also make sure I cover the spot where you can actually see the container at all. If you do not see it you might just keep looking. Thanks for all the great input.

[Skippermark]

I would say it's not a find.

 

We once "did a cache where the owner had placed decoys nearby. We were new and didn't realize that people did that. We found one of the decoys and thought it was the cache because it had a logbook in it with several signatures.

 

A couple weeks later, we got an email from the owner saying that someone had placed a log sheet into one of the decoys and that we had found that and not the actual cache.

 

He basically left it up to us to decide what to do by saying, "I trust that you'll do the right thing," which to me was delete the found log and go back and find the actual cache, which is what we did a few days later. To others, it meant "I found a container with a logbook in it, so I'm keeping my find."

 

Apparently, someone wasn't happy about the email because when we went back, the decoy had been ripped from it's hiding spot and smashed to bits.

[+Renegade Knight]

...should I delete the FTF log entry he made on the cache page? ...

 

Spotting only counts in bird watching. This is caching. They need to sign the log. Not sign a piece of paper and then drop it like litter.

 

I'd ask them to change the log to a note. It's up to you if you want to delete the find and have them relog as a note, or if you can wait for them to get back and change it. The real FTF is still up for grabs.

[Mag Magician]

IMHO, bragging rights for a FTF are all in whether you put FTF, or whatever keyword on your on-line log. Then, when you distill your "my finds" PQ from Groundspeak, it shows automatically as a first to find in whatever generator you want to use to post your stats.

 

I have been offered a co-FTF on a few caches but because another person was the first to sign the on site log, you will not find these as a FTF in my stats. It's just the way I play the game, and others will play it the way they want.

 

You have made the offer on your cache page. Let the next person who actually signs the log claim whatever rights he/she deserves, and let the liar claim whatever they want.

[+chuckwagon101]

Can't we just "let him play the game the way he wants to play the game?"

 

Different strokes for different folks???

 

Actually, cachers like this make up a VERY small percentage of the caching public sooooooooooooooo .............what's the harm?

 

Ok....let's compare this to ice cream cones. Say the ice cream cone was............OOOPS! I forget how that goes!!

 

I change my mind!! Delete that sucker and tell him he has to do penance by arranging a BIG PILE OF STICKS into the shape of a micro!!

[+weinema]

The cacher did not care logging a FTF even he was not there...

He did not care 'bout you and your work you had with the cache.

 

I had several discussions regarding "wrong" logs (sometimes FTFs).

Meanwhile I will not start discuss with the cacher - most times this will not help and you will recieve not the nicest words.

I just delete the logs now´without any comment.

 

Martin

[+Team GeoBlast]

I placed and submitted a new cache last night. It was published before morning. Some one was at it early this morning. They got to the spot just fine. Credit given, it was 5:30am. The hiding spot is quite easy to find, figuring out how to get the cache out of its hiding spot is really the point of this cache. But the way I have the cache hidden you could see the container from a certain angle ( I will change that soon). But it still takes some figuring out how to get to the container (it is a nano) out. Well the fellow who "found" it stated in the FTF log entry (on line, not the actual log book in the cache) that he could not get to the container so he placed a note near by for his log entry. Well, we emailed back and forth and I explained that he really did not find the cache, that he should go back because he is missing the point of the whole cache, being figuring out how to get to it. He is leaving town today and can not make it back over to it.

 

Okay now that I have told that story here is the question: should I delete the FTF log entry he made on the cache page? Should I let him keep it for just looking at the container and not removing it and signing the log?

Should I contact him first and tell him I am going to delete it if he does not go "find" the container? I do not know the proper thing to do. I do not want to take away from some one elses FTF chance. Thanks. I hope I have not confused any one.

 

This was meant to be a puzzle cache. It really is not.

 

I think you've managed to garner a pretty strong consensus on how to handle the FTF. I saw the note on the cache page and feel that is appropriate. What I'd like to offer is a little input on the cache page verbiage. I'm not saying you need to add a hint but it might be good to give some indication that the extraction is not going to be straight forward. Now that people are already doing that for you in their logs, this is less critical but the FTFer seemed to be a little confused.

 

Just a suggestion for this would be to leave a hint like: The fun begins after the find on this cache.

Edited August 21, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[Clan Riffster]

I have a multi that is an actual working crypex made out of 4 inch PVC.

WatchDog, how much grovelling would it take to get you to send me the plans for making one of these?

[+gr8johnson]

Well the cacher made it back to sign the log before he went out of town. So he got the FTF any way. Thanks for all the input.

[Skippermark]

I'm glad it worked out.

[Skippermark]

Whoopsy doooo...

Edited August 21, 2008 by Skippermark