fraude FTF by FTF Jaeger

[+Joske0304699]

As I dropped a few caches in Brussels (Belgium) today, I noticed they were all found by 'FTF Jaeger'. While visiting his page I noticed he had 15!!! FTF on one day. Not only in Belgium but also in Germany...

 

As it was strange to me I went to my caches, along with my buddy Nobubbles, to check them and NON were found by him!

 

This is so narrowminded. Why would somebody do something like this? Has anybody had the same experience? Because according to me, this IS NOT what geocaching is about! We put a lot of time in dropping them, the research work etc. and this spoils it completely

 

Looking forward to your reactions.

[Mushtang]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

[4wheelin_fool]

Looking forward to your reactions.

 

Why?

 

Thats the only thing that he wants.

[+Joske0304699]

Of course I can delite the logs, and I will, but WHY???? would somebody to that?

To get attention or to ridiculize himself?

This is really spoiling it for the one really looking for it.

[Mr.Yuck]

This account was just created today. I predict it will last less than 24 hours. Especially with that pic on his profile page.

[Mushtang]

Of course I can delite the logs, and I will, but WHY???? would somebody to that?

To get attention or to ridiculize himself?

This is really spoiling it for the one really looking for it.

The picture on his profile, of a hand with the middle finger up, pretty much explains why. Apparently he's doing it just to make people mad.

 

Ignoring people that want attention is the only way to make them look elsewhere for it. If he's aware of this thread he'll be smiling from ear to ear knowing he's gotten to you.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Of course I can delite the logs, and I will, but WHY???? would somebody to that?

To get attention or to ridiculize himself?

This is really spoiling it for the one really looking for it.

Well, first, a reminder that you can delete the logs, and that is what I would likely do, or alternatively, I would add a note immediately adjacent to the fake FTF entry noting that the adjacent entry by finder XXXX appears to be fraudulent and should therefore be disregarded as anything other than a piece of the historical record of the cache listing page.

 

As for the rest, I strongly suggest that you do not take it personally or attach any significance or importance to it. And please remember that filing fake "armchair" find logs on distant caches has become a rather big fad in parts of Germany and a few other spots in Europe (a few spots in Switzerland and Austria, as well, as I recall), and so there are dozens or even hundreds of German cachers who create accounts and try to pack them with fake log finds. This latest person has taken it to new heights by going for faked FTFs, however!

Edited August 19, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+wimseyguy]

Of course I can delite the logs, and I will, but WHY???? would somebody to that?

To get attention or to ridiculize himself?

This is really spoiling it for the one really looking for it.

It will only spoil your fun if you let it.

 

Ignore the idjit-it will go away soon.

[+ncfinn]

Definitely delete the bogus logs. Let the true FTF people know that they got there first.

 

Do you know if any of the caches had a special price for the FTF? Do any of the following logs mention that the price was still there?

[Mushtang]

Definitely delete the bogus logs. Let the true FTF people know that they got there first.

 

Do you know if any of the caches had a special price for the FTF? Do any of the following logs mention that the price was still there?

I don't think you're allowed to charge people to find your caches, even the first ones to find it.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

I'm thinking that they meant "prize".

[+Bad_CRC]

there will always be people who are out to cause trouble for others. It's not just in geocaching. Go on any beautiful trail in the woods, and there will be litter, and graffiti on benches or signs or buildings nearby. It's unavoidable.

 

You won't be able to explain why they act the way they do.

 

Just delete the logs, shrug, and move on. If their efforts aren't rewarded or even acknowledged, it's probably more likely they'll get bored and move on.

[+thedeadpirate]

Let the true FTF people know that they got there first.

 

The true FTF knows who s/he is. The blank logbook speaks volumes.

[+briansnat]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

 

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

[+Trucker Lee]

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

It was my understanding that playing the "Caching" game involves physically going to a site and meeting the requirements, such as finding a container and signing the log, bonafides for a virtual, pic for a webcam, etc.

 

False logging may be a game, but I can't see that it has anything to do with caching. The cache page is merely a venue for thier game to be played, like a Monopoly board is to that game. The game they wish to play is that of messing with someone else as a way to justify their lowly existence in their little mind. It goes not a step past that.

 

Delete the logs, the clown is playing the wrong game.

[+JBnW]

How about this...when someone does actually find and sign the log, update the cache description page to say "Congratulations to (someone) for FTF!" and simply move on.

[+ReadyOrNot]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

 

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

 

You aren't allowed to use that argument. Only <name removed> and his brother are allowed to do that. Wonder how <name removed> and his brother would feel if someone decided "Their Game" involved dropping a big dookie in their caches as trade items?

[Mushtang]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

I hope you're not saying that to me because you think I've ever said that.

 

I've said many, many, times that if someone logs a bogus Find on one of my caches then I'll delete their Find.

[Mushtang]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

You aren't allowed to use that argument. Only <name removed> and his brother are allowed to do that. Wonder how <name removed> and his brother would feel if someone decided "Their Game" involved dropping a big dookie in their caches as trade items?

I'm suddenly reminded of 3rd grade, and the use of the word "dookie" isn't the reason.

[+Bad_CRC]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

You aren't allowed to use that argument. Only <name removed> and his brother are allowed to do that. Wonder how <name removed> and his brother would feel if someone decided "Their Game" involved dropping a big dookie in their caches as trade items?

I'm suddenly reminded of 3rd grade, and the use of the word "dookie" isn't the reason.

 

It appears that some are trying very hard to start a fight in this thread. I believe they call it trolling.

[+ReadyOrNot]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

You aren't allowed to use that argument. Only <name removed> and his brother are allowed to do that. Wonder how <name removed> and his brother would feel if someone decided "Their Game" involved dropping a big dookie in their caches as trade items?

I'm suddenly reminded of 3rd grade, and the use of the word "dookie" isn't the reason.

 

It appears that some are trying very hard to start a fight in this thread. I believe they call it trolling.

 

I think certain people constantly telling others that they should mind their own business and let other people play the game they want to is directly relevent to this topic. Why wouldn't that same logic apply to this case?

[+ReadyOrNot]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

You aren't allowed to use that argument. Only <name removed> and his brother are allowed to do that. Wonder how <name removed> and his brother would feel if someone decided "Their Game" involved dropping a big dookie in their caches as trade items?

I'm suddenly reminded of 3rd grade, and the use of the word "dookie" isn't the reason.

 

You are absolutely right. I can remember playing games on the playground and certain kids changing the rules to whatever suited them at the time. Its very easy to yell 'Let people play their game how they want' whenever it suits you. Perhaps you should evaluate removing that line from your war chest and people wouldn't have to constantly remind you of how ridiculous it is. Just a thought...

[Mushtang]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

You aren't allowed to use that argument. Only <name removed> and his brother are allowed to do that. Wonder how <name removed> and his brother would feel if someone decided "Their Game" involved dropping a big dookie in their caches as trade items?

I'm suddenly reminded of 3rd grade, and the use of the word "dookie" isn't the reason.

You are absolutely right. I can remember playing games on the playground and certain kids changing the rules to whatever suited them at the time. Its very easy to yell 'Let people play their game how they want' whenever it suits you. Perhaps you should evaluate removing that line from your war chest and people wouldn't have to constantly remind you of how ridiculous it is. Just a thought...

Okay, I'll play. Please show me ONE post where I EVER said either

1) people should be allowed to log bogus Finds without them being deleted, or

2) people playing this game should be allowed to do whatever the heck they wanted no matter what.

 

Be careful, I have most definitely said that bogus logs don't hurt anyone, and if they're left on a cache it's not something to be upset about, and I've also said I'd delete them from my own caches, but none of that is equal to what you're accusing me of.

 

I've also said that people should be allowed to play the game the way they want as long as it's not keeping someone else from playing their game, or as long as it's not hurting someone else's game. But again, none of that is what you're accusing me of.

 

So please, do some research and show me.

[AZcachemeister]

 

The true FTF knows who s/he is. The blank logbook speaks volumes.

 

 

How about this...when someone does actually find and sign the log, update the cache description page to say "Congratulations to (someone) for FTF!" and simply move on.

 

We are all seeking attention in some way or other.

Most of us try to find something we are good at, and are satisfied with the attention received from that.

Some of us have difficulty in finding that something, and turn to spoiling other's fun because they have not received the proper attention for the 'good' things they have done.

 

Or, if you prefer:

 

There are idiots everywhere.

Some of them become Fake-logging 'Geocachers'.

SOME of them even manage to find their way into these forums!

[+K7CJS]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

 

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

 

He CAN play the game he wants....just not here and not with "our" caches. If he wants to play that way then he can setup his own site and his own rules.

[+Teese]

Perhaps it's just a matter of semantics ... to the phantom find crowd, "FTF" may be code for "Falsified The Find" and the log is, in a sense, a precisely accurate declaration that yet delightfully twists the knife in the gut of those who react negatively to their little game!

[+weinema]

FTF Jaeger also logged some new caches here in the western part of Germany as FTF - but he was not there.

We're already talked bout that at an mini Event and will delete his logs.

 

Bad world,

Martin

[+DaFunkyFrogs]

Looks like it doesn't really matter anymore.

when searching for this player I get this message:

The user selected had his or her account locked. You cannot send email to this user.

[+SixDogTeam]

Looks like it doesn't really matter anymore.

when searching for this player I get this message:

The user selected had his or her account locked. You cannot send email to this user.

 

durn it! maybe they'll crop up under a new account... I so wanted to get in on dissing them.

[Mushtang]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

You aren't allowed to use that argument. Only <name removed> and his brother are allowed to do that. Wonder how <name removed> and his brother would feel if someone decided "Their Game" involved dropping a big dookie in their caches as trade items?

I'm suddenly reminded of 3rd grade, and the use of the word "dookie" isn't the reason.

You are absolutely right. I can remember playing games on the playground and certain kids changing the rules to whatever suited them at the time. Its very easy to yell 'Let people play their game how they want' whenever it suits you. Perhaps you should evaluate removing that line from your war chest and people wouldn't have to constantly remind you of how ridiculous it is. Just a thought...

Okay, I'll play. Please show me ONE post where I EVER said either

1) people should be allowed to log bogus Finds without them being deleted, or

2) people playing this game should be allowed to do whatever the heck they wanted no matter what.

 

Be careful, I have most definitely said that bogus logs don't hurt anyone, and if they're left on a cache it's not something to be upset about, and I've also said I'd delete them from my own caches, but none of that is equal to what you're accusing me of.

 

I've also said that people should be allowed to play the game the way they want as long as it's not keeping someone else from playing their game, or as long as it's not hurting someone else's game. But again, none of that is what you're accusing me of.

 

So please, do some research and show me.

 

Not up to the challenge ReadyOrNot? That's a pity.

 

How about you Brainsnat? You seemed to imply something with your post, care to back it up with a link? Or maybe since you're a Moderator you're allowed to act insulting but don't feel the need to either back it up or say you were wrong.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Not up to the challenge ReadyOrNot? That's a pity.

 

Sorry. Had to spend time with the family and NOT be at work. I will make an attempt to live up to your speedy response expectations in the future!

 

Give me a little time to research... Finding and quoting your posts out of context is going to take some time

[+va griz]

Please show me ONE post where I EVER said either

1) people should be allowed to log bogus Finds without them being deleted,

 

I have most definitely said that bogus logs don't hurt anyone, and if they're left on a cache it's not something to be upset about

 

Might the implication of the second statement fufill the requirements of the question?

[Mushtang]

Please show me ONE post where I EVER said either

1) people should be allowed to log bogus Finds without them being deleted,

 

I have most definitely said that bogus logs don't hurt anyone, and if they're left on a cache it's not something to be upset about

 

Might the implication of the second statement fufill the requirements of the question?

Not at all. The first implies that they should never be deleted, which is what RoN is suggesting I believe. The second says that IF they're not deleted they're not going to hurt anyone, but I also go on to say that I'd delete them from my own cache if I had one.

 

That's a pretty big difference. If I say it's fine with me if you have long hair, but I'm going to keep mine short, that doesn't mean that I believe everyone should have long hair.

[Mushtang]

Not up to the challenge ReadyOrNot? That's a pity.

Sorry. Had to spend time with the family and NOT be at work. I will make an attempt to live up to your speedy response expectations in the future!

 

Give me a little time to research... Finding and quoting your posts out of context is going to take some time

Not a problem. I'll wait.

 

I have a feeling you're going to find something to quote and, like va griz did above, think you've found something when in fact you haven't. But enjoy looking.

[4wheelin_fool]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

 

How about you Brainsnat? You seemed to imply something with your post, care to back it up with a link? Or maybe since you're a Moderator you're allowed to act insulting but don't feel the need to either back it up or say you were wrong.

 

It seems to me that the Brainsnat was only echoing the same sentiment that you and your brother implied in another thread.

 

So what is your excuse for a personal attack? Just because you feel insulted, doesn't mean the person was being insulting.

 

 

 

Are you the guy that writes up those warrantees that imply one thing, but when someone reads the fine print, they discover that they technically say something else?

Edited August 20, 2008 by 4wheelin_fool

[Mr.Yuck]

Looks like it doesn't really matter anymore.

when searching for this player I get this message:

The user selected had his or her account locked. You cannot send email to this user.

 

I predicted 24 hours! Did I win?

[+infiniteMPG]

Bad world,

Good world, a few bad people.

 

We give credit to the FTF at the bottom of every cache page, kind of the prize for being the FTF. On some caches in the area (and some of ours) that are tough ones, the first so-many people are entered in the listing as people who completed the challenge. We have a tough paddle-only cache that someone got the FTF on, signed the log sheet and forgot to enter it online (was a little disappointing to the STF).

 

Would be nice to allow automatic (but optional) validation from GC on caches without making them mystery/puzzle caches or requiring an email outside of GC.com (a cacher can enter a find even when data is required to be emailed as it's up to the owner to delete the log if the data's not sent, the cacher doesn't have to wait for validation to enter the find). Like a multi-character code in the cache and a place on the log page to enter the code when entering the find. No code entered properly, no find log allowed on the page. And the owner could update the code whenever desired so if the code got distributed then the owner could change it to something else. Then anyone concerned about bogus logging could just turn that feature ON for their caches.... end of story

[Mushtang]

It seems to me that the Brainsnat was only echoing the same sentiment that you and your brother implied in another thread.

Really? Got a link? Because I don't think I implied that at all.

[+briansnat]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

You aren't allowed to use that argument. Only <name removed> and his brother are allowed to do that. Wonder how <name removed> and his brother would feel if someone decided "Their Game" involved dropping a big dookie in their caches as trade items?

I'm suddenly reminded of 3rd grade, and the use of the word "dookie" isn't the reason.

You are absolutely right. I can remember playing games on the playground and certain kids changing the rules to whatever suited them at the time. Its very easy to yell 'Let people play their game how they want' whenever it suits you. Perhaps you should evaluate removing that line from your war chest and people wouldn't have to constantly remind you of how ridiculous it is. Just a thought...

Okay, I'll play. Please show me ONE post where I EVER said either

1) people should be allowed to log bogus Finds without them being deleted, or

2) people playing this game should be allowed to do whatever the heck they wanted no matter what.

 

Be careful, I have most definitely said that bogus logs don't hurt anyone, and if they're left on a cache it's not something to be upset about, and I've also said I'd delete them from my own caches, but none of that is equal to what you're accusing me of.

 

I've also said that people should be allowed to play the game the way they want as long as it's not keeping someone else from playing their game, or as long as it's not hurting someone else's game. But again, none of that is what you're accusing me of.

 

So please, do some research and show me.

 

Not up to the challenge ReadyOrNot? That's a pity.

 

How about you Brainsnat? You seemed to imply something with your post, care to back it up with a link? Or maybe since you're a Moderator you're allowed to act insulting but don't feel the need to either back it up or say you were wrong.

 

Why do you think my post had anything to do with anything other than the comment it directly addressed? You infer too much. To tell you the truth I saw the comment but paid no attention to who wrote it. Didn't even notice it was you until I checked back here.

Edited August 20, 2008 by briansnat

[4wheelin_fool]

It seems to me that the Brainsnat was only echoing the same sentiment that you and your brother implied in another thread.

Really? Got a link? Because I don't think I implied that at all.

 

Perhaps it was more KBI than you. I'm not going to check all the posts, but after reading that thread thats what it seemed.

 

It is fairly easy to confuse the two of you, as you both frequently team up on your debates, but it is an honest mistake.

[+ReadyOrNot]

That's a pretty big difference. If I say it's fine with me if you have long hair, but I'm going to keep mine short, that doesn't mean that I believe everyone should have long hair.

 

Let's see here... Long hair versus lying on a public log sheet. Not the best example probably. Let's use my previous example... If I decide to make a dookie in your cache that gets visited 5 times a year, how does that affect someone's ability to enjoy the game 2000 miles away?

 

It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game, so let those dookies fly! Who am I to determine how and what you place in a cache?

 

Please, for the sake of the argument (and for some humor), please explain the difference between making a dookie in a cache and fake-signing the log book...

[+Mudfrog]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

 

How about you Brainsnat? You seemed to imply something with your post, care to back it up with a link? Or maybe since you're a Moderator you're allowed to act insulting but don't feel the need to either back it up or say you were wrong.

 

It seems to me that the Brainsnat was only echoing the same sentiment that you and your brother implied in another thread.

 

So what is your excuse for a personal attack? Just because you feel insulted, doesn't mean the person was being insulting.

 

 

Are you the guy that writes up those warrantees that imply one thing, but when you read the fine print, discover that they technically say something else?

 

I think you hit the nail on the head!

 

Mushtang says none of this is important to him. But you'll notice that he'll argue his point to he's blue in the face. There is another person who likes to argue too but i won't mention his name since he hasn't yet chimed in on this thread.

 

I'm not going to go back and try to look up his posts but there's no doubt in my mind that he has always implied that people should have the right to play the game the way they want to play. He has stated that bogus logs do not affect him. This would be fine and dandy,, if he would leave it at that. But he doesn't, and keeps insisting that bogus logs are harmless and that we shouldn't pay any attention to them.

 

Mushtang, you say you would delete a bogus log if it came through on one of your caches. If this did happen, wouldn't you now admit that this had an affect on you in some way?

Edited August 20, 2008 by Mudfrog

[Mushtang]

That's a pretty big difference. If I say it's fine with me if you have long hair, but I'm going to keep mine short, that doesn't mean that I believe everyone should have long hair.

Let's see here... Long hair versus lying on a public log sheet. Not the best example probably.

Why isn't it a good example? Long hair isn't doing any damage to anyone, but it's just not how I want to wear my hair. And just because I don't have a problem with someone else having long hair doesn't mean that I think everyone SHOULD have long hair. If you can't see the difference, I'm not going to have any luck with helping you see the difference in what you accused me of.

 

Let's use my previous example... If I decide to make a dookie in your cache that gets visited 5 times a year, how does that affect someone's ability to enjoy the game 2000 miles away?

 

It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game, so let those dookies fly! Who am I to determine how and what you place in a cache?

 

Please, for the sake of the argument (and for some humor), please explain the difference between making a dookie in a cache and fake-signing the log book...

The difference is HUGE. Pooping in a cache destroys the cache. It most definitely damages part of the game, even if it's not a part of the game you'll ever see.

 

How does a false find destroy the cache, or any part of the game? Again, I'm not saying that false finds are good, or that people should be false finding logs, I'm just saying that IF they're allowed to stay by the cache owner it's not harming the game.

[Mushtang]

All you can do is delete the logs on your caches and forget about it. It's stupid that someone would do this, but don't let it ruin your fun.

But why can't HE play the game he wants to? Who are we to tell him he's wrong?

You aren't allowed to use that argument. Only <name removed> and his brother are allowed to do that. Wonder how <name removed> and his brother would feel if someone decided "Their Game" involved dropping a big dookie in their caches as trade items?

I'm suddenly reminded of 3rd grade, and the use of the word "dookie" isn't the reason.

You are absolutely right. I can remember playing games on the playground and certain kids changing the rules to whatever suited them at the time. Its very easy to yell 'Let people play their game how they want' whenever it suits you. Perhaps you should evaluate removing that line from your war chest and people wouldn't have to constantly remind you of how ridiculous it is. Just a thought...

Okay, I'll play. Please show me ONE post where I EVER said either

1) people should be allowed to log bogus Finds without them being deleted, or

2) people playing this game should be allowed to do whatever the heck they wanted no matter what.

 

Be careful, I have most definitely said that bogus logs don't hurt anyone, and if they're left on a cache it's not something to be upset about, and I've also said I'd delete them from my own caches, but none of that is equal to what you're accusing me of.

 

I've also said that people should be allowed to play the game the way they want as long as it's not keeping someone else from playing their game, or as long as it's not hurting someone else's game. But again, none of that is what you're accusing me of.

 

So please, do some research and show me.

Not up to the challenge ReadyOrNot? That's a pity.

 

How about you Brainsnat? You seemed to imply something with your post, care to back it up with a link? Or maybe since you're a Moderator you're allowed to act insulting but don't feel the need to either back it up or say you were wrong.

Why do you think my post had anything to do with anything other than the comment it directly addressed? You infer too much. To tell you the truth I saw the comment but paid no attention to who wrote it. Didn't even notice it was you until I checked back here.

I guess the fact that you quoted me and then brought up the same misconception that several other people have also brought up was a pretty big clue.

 

So now that you've stated you think I infer too much, are you suggesting that you don't think I've been posting that people should be able to play the game they want to no matter what?

[+ReadyOrNot]

The difference is HUGE. Pooping in a cache destroys the cache. It most definitely damages part of the game, even if it's not a part of the game you'll ever see.

 

How does a false find destroy the cache, or any part of the game? Again, I'm not saying that false finds are good, or that people should be false finding logs, I'm just saying that IF they're allowed to stay by the cache owner it's not harming the game.

 

We agreed in a different thread that false logging is detrimental, just not widespread or even noticable in most cases. I've seen people get frustrated at false logging and pulled their caches from the site (remember seeing a forum post a while back)... Did the false logging not destroy the cache? But according to your logic, its not a big deal because its not wide spread and doesn't affect a lot of people. Pooping in your cache isn't going to destroy it. It may be annoying to visitors of the cache, but it doesn't prevent the cache from being logged. Nor does it affect 99.9% of geocachers out there because they won't be visiting the cache anyways.

 

Your quote above: "It most definitely damages *PART* of the game, even if it's not a part of the game you'll ever see".... I'm confused, were you talking about dookie or false logging?

 

*SAVING A LINK TO THIS QUOTE FOR FUTURE REFERENCE*

Edited August 20, 2008 by ReadyOrNot

[Mushtang]

It seems to me that the Brainsnat was only echoing the same sentiment that you and your brother implied in another thread.

Really? Got a link? Because I don't think I implied that at all.

Perhaps it was more KBI than you. I'm not going to check all the posts, but after reading that thread thats what it seemed.

 

It is fairly easy to confuse the two of you, as you both frequently team up on your debates, but it is an honest mistake.

Apology accepted. I doubt I'll get as much from ReadyOrNot or Briansnat.

 

But since you brought it up, KBI hasn't said those sentiments either. He and I have the same viewpoint. It's amazing that people can read it in black and white and still suggest we said something different.

 

Just to be clear, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'll say it again here: Bogus Find logs are NOT something I think people SHOULD be logging. I think people should only log a Find if they actually signed the log book. However, if someone does log a bogus Find on a cache and the cache owner doesn't care, I don't see that it harms the game in any way and I can't understand why anyone else should care.

 

I have no doubt that someone who just read that previous paragraph will be thinking to themselves, "Why does he think people should log bogus Finds?"

[+ReadyOrNot]

Just to be clear, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'll say it again here: Bogus Find logs are NOT something I think people SHOULD be logging. I think people should only log a Find if they actually signed the log book. However, if someone does log a bogus Find on a cache and the cache owner doesn't care, I don't see that it harms the game in any way and I can't understand why anyone else should care.

 

I find it amazing that you can't see the problem. You say people should be allowed to play the game the way they want. YET - You seem to have a problem with people thinking the way they want. Everytime someone mentions being upset about false logging, you argue with them about how they shouldn't be upset because it doesn't hurt them... Just the fact that you harass people for thinking a certain way about false logging shows that false logging affects caching and hurts people...

 

Can you not see this?

[Mushtang]

Mushtang says none of this is important to him. But you'll notice that he'll argue his point to he's blue in the face.

I did? I'd ask you to point me to where I said it wasn't important to me that folks are misquoting me and putting words in my mouth, but you'd misquote me again.

 

I'm not going to go back and try to look up his posts but there's no doubt in my mind that he has always implied that people should have the right to play the game the way they want to play.

Well, if it doesn't matter that someone never actually said something... do you still step on small puppies every morning like you said you did in a different thread?

 

He has stated that bogus logs do not affect him.

Not quite. I said that bogus logs in other peoples caches, that the cache owner doesn't want to delete don't bother me. But you were close.

 

This would be fine and dandy,, if he would leave it at that. But he doesn't, and keeps insisting that bogus logs are harmless and that we shouldn't pay any attention to them.

Bogus logs on other peoples caches are harmless, if the cache owner doesn't care. It feels like I've said this before...

 

Mushtang, you say you would delete a bogus log if it came through on one of your caches. If this did happen, wouldn't you now admit that this had an affect on you in some way?

I now admit (and have previously admitted) that it would affect the stats on my cache, that it would change them to an incorrect number, and it would be a situation I would want to correct. So yes, I would delete the bogus Find if I was aware of it. But I've never said that bogus Finds on MY caches don't affect ME. I've said that bogus Finds on someone else's caches don't affect you (if you're not the cache owner). I've also said I don't understand why you should care if some other owner left a bogus Find on one of their caches.

[Mushtang]

Just to be clear, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'll say it again here: Bogus Find logs are NOT something I think people SHOULD be logging. I think people should only log a Find if they actually signed the log book. However, if someone does log a bogus Find on a cache and the cache owner doesn't care, I don't see that it harms the game in any way and I can't understand why anyone else should care.

I find it amazing that you can't see the problem. You say people should be allowed to play the game the way they want. YET - You seem to have a problem with people thinking the way they want. Everytime someone mentions being upset about false logging, you argue with them about how they shouldn't be upset because it doesn't hurt them...

What I see is that you equate "I can't understand why anyone should care" with "You're not supposed to care, and if you do then I think you're WRONG".

 

Just the fact that you harass people for thinking a certain way about false logging shows that false logging affects caching and hurts people...

Lets hold on right there. In post number 2 of this thread I suggested that the bogus find be deleted and it not be a big deal. The harassment started in posts 14 and 17.

 

Can you not see this?

[Mushtang]

The difference is HUGE. Pooping in a cache destroys the cache. It most definitely damages part of the game, even if it's not a part of the game you'll ever see.

 

How does a false find destroy the cache, or any part of the game? Again, I'm not saying that false finds are good, or that people should be false finding logs, I'm just saying that IF they're allowed to stay by the cache owner it's not harming the game.

We agreed in a different thread that false logging is detrimental, just not widespread or even noticable in most cases.

Who is "we"? I never agreed that.

 

I've seen people get frustrated at false logging and pulled their caches from the site (remember seeing a forum post a while back)... Did the false logging not destroy the cache?

No. The owner destroyed his own cache because he wasn't willing to do the necessary maintenance he agreed to. In my mind it's the same as if he pulled the cache because the log kept getting wet instead of just changing the baggie whenever it got ripped. You'd say that the rain destroyed the cache.

 

But according to your logic, its not a big deal because its not wide spread and doesn't affect a lot of people. Pooping in your cache isn't going to destroy it. It may be annoying to visitors of the cache, but it doesn't prevent the cache from being logged. Nor does it affect 99.9% of geocachers out there because they won't be visiting the cache anyways.

If you don't think pooping in a cache destroys it then I'm sure glad you don't live in my area. I'd hate to see your caches after you've done any maintenance.

 

Your quote above: "It most definitely damages *PART* of the game, even if it's not a part of the game you'll ever see".... I'm confused, were you talking about dookie or false logging?

I was talking about poop in a cache. I still don't see how a bogus Find in a cache, where the cache owner doesn't care, damages the cache in any way. And I still don't understand why someone else should be upset about it.

 

*SAVING A LINK TO THIS QUOTE FOR FUTURE REFERENCE*

Great. I get to see you mis-quoting me again. Well, it was going to happen anyway, even without the saved link.