Going for my Supreme Court!

[foxtrot_xray]

So on my trip to Colorado, I'm going to be hanging out in a few places along the Colorado / New Mexico border. I posted about a confusing one earlier, but now this one has my interest. It will be my first Supreme Court disk found. (@yay!) The border and these marks have been discussed before (here and here) but one thing I'm not clear on..

 

GN0004 is mile 172. It's indicated by an open square on the border line on a topo map. One mile in each direction there's another open square. I think it's safe to assume that there are other Supreme Court 'mile markers' there as well - but, how come those wouldn't be in the NGS database? (Would the answer to this be the same as why not all of the USGS ones are?)

 

And, as a side question - if a mark like this is on the state line, how does the NGS determine which state to file it under?

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

I have been working on Whole States project.

I have a program where I can have all the State Marks in it's own data base ready to send or navigate in.

Then I have the GSAK for the data on each as well as in my PDA.

 

I have noticed that some of the marks for one State are in another State as well.

I did get all of New Mexico done but several are missing on that North line and may show up when I do Colorado.

Like the one near 4 Corners I thought would be in New Mexico but it is not.

 

It makes it so much easier when you can see them all on one page.

I am going to be there around the same time frame as well in Middle New Mexico.

[foxtrot_xray]

I am going to be there around the same time frame as well in Middle New Mexico.

Where are you going? I'll be on the eastern side of the north border early next week (a week from today, actually!), and then the central part (north of Chama NM, south of Antonito CO, the referenced mark area) the weekend after that.

 

Me.

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

The supreme court gets involved with state boundary disputes, so a lot of the marker disks for boundaries have their name on them. I've not been out west, but the New Hampshire / Vermont boundary has lot's of them.

 

Since in this case the boundary goes along the shore of the Connecticut River, there's usually no place to mount a disk (except maybe on a bridge deck or dam crossing the river), so most marks are reference marks. It is very cool to see their name on a disk.

 

Here's the last one, at the northeast point of Vermont. The disk says the boundary is 1 foot away. You'd think they could have just stuck it there.

 

The actual point is near the upper edge of the rock.

 

Here's a closeup:

Edited August 19, 2008 by Papa-Bear-NYC

[+Holtie22]

I think it's safe to assume that there are other Supreme Court 'mile markers' there as well - but, how come those wouldn't be in the NGS database? (Would the answer to this be the same as why not all of the USGS ones are?)

 

And, as a side question - if a mark like this is on the state line, how does the NGS determine which state to file it under?

 

Foxtrot

 

It would appear that the only reason this mark, whose main function is purely cadastral, is included in the NSRS, is because it was used in a line of levels that was published by NGS. The horizontal coordinates are scaled.

 

Regarding your last question, I've often wondered the same thing myself!

[+Holtie22]

duplicate post...

Edited August 19, 2008 by Holtie22

[foxtrot_xray]

Here's a closeup:

Those are frggin' cool disks. I'm looking forward to finding this one, and am curious as to what will be stamped on it, since it's *ON* the line..

It would appear that the only reason this mark, whose main function is purely cadastral, is included in the NSRS, is because it was used in a line of levels that was published by NGS. The horizontal coordinates are scaled.

Hey, good point. So in theory, I could go one mile in another direction and find another. The only difference would be that it wouldn't be in the NGS database...?

Regarding your last question, I've often wondered the same thing myself!

I wonder if I could submit a correction to Deb, telling her that it's actually in Colorado. Just to give Colorado an extra mark.

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

I wonder if I could submit a correction to Deb, telling her that it's actually in Colorado. Just to give Colorado an extra mark.

I think the rule is for markers on a boundary, the state with the name nearest to "A" in the alphabet gets the station. I've see a bunch and they (almost) all follow this rule. For example monuments on the Mass / New Hampshire line - One of my current projects - (which are generally third order horizontal since they were used in early triangulations) are all categorized in Massachusetts.

 

OTOH, all the Vermont / NH markers are in Vermont anyway and are (mostly) reference marks pointing down to the river. And as Holtie22 pointed out most of these (including the one pictured) are not NGS stations.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Papa-Bear-NYC

[foxtrot_xray]

I think the rule is for markers on a boundary, the state with the name nearest to "A" in the alphabet gets the station. I've see a bunch and they (almost) all follow this rule. For example monuments on the Mass / New Hampshire line - One of my current projects - (which are generally third order horizontal since they were used in early triangulations) are all categorized in Massachusetts.

 

OTOH, all the Vermont / NH markers are in Vermont anyway and are (mostly) reference marks pointing down to the river. And as Holtie22 pointed out most of these (including the one pictured) are not NGS stations.

Interesting. THis specific one is listed as being in New Mexico (obviously, farther from 'A' than Colorado!)

 

Actually, thinking about it, the other two markers on the eastern side of that line are also in NM. Perhaps it's the southern-most state that gets the mark? It would fit in this scenario, *AND* your Mass / NH scenario?

 

Then again, it may have just been completely random. Or something as specific as where the line to them started or ended in.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

CE0660 MON 44

 

 

It is gone now as it appears but this was one of my first one's.

Here is another one nearby.

CE0687 MON 97

 

And I will be in the Mid East portion of NM on your Days,I will not get up to the North Border till later and really do not have specifics on any of it for sure.

 

You know how plans can go.

 

Here is one of my favorite Boundary Marks.

CE1690 T26S R3 4E SECS 31 36 CC NM TX

[+jwahl]

Typically on boundary surveys, or PLSS, an occasional monument is tied in or used by USGS or NGS/CGS for control and it gets published. This is not usually the case. Some state lines have been completely integrated into the control network, probably based on a specific state funded project.

 

Anyway the point is that specific to your boundary, the little squares you see are most of the mile markers and intermediate markers set in the state line survey and each one should have had a similar monument set. On the Colorado NM boundary both mile posts, and points on ridges and occasionally other points of interest were monumented.

 

That line was surveyed relatively recently, so they are all nice pipe and brass capped monuments. Many state lines still have stones, or are very old and only fragmentary evidence of the monuments remains.

 

- jerry

[foxtrot_xray]

Diverging off of the subject for a moment.. I'm going to be driving down a road in western Oklahoma that has a station every mile - literally. Instinctively, I wanna find each one. But since I'll be on the road and under a time schedule, I'm trying to rationalize passing most of them..

 

Am I right in justifying passing up all those finds?

 

Me.

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

Diverging off of the subject for a moment.. I'm going to be driving down a road in western Oklahoma that has a station every mile - literally. Instinctively, I wanna find each one. But since I'll be on the road and under a time schedule, I'm trying to rationalize passing most of them..

 

Am I right in justifying passing up all those finds?

 

Me.

You'll never live long enough to bag everything. I drove over a thousand miles last weekend for 9 marks (of which 1 was destroyed and 2 were DNFs), but they were 9 very special marks (to me anyway).

 

Go for quality, not quantity.

[foxtrot_xray]

You'll never live long enough to bag everything. I drove over a thousand miles last weekend for 9 marks (of which 1 was destroyed and 2 were DNFs), but they were 9 very special marks (to me anyway).

 

Go for quality, not quantity.

I know, but.. on a 24 hour trip, quality slows me down a little too much. And unfortunately, scavengers out here have gotten a lot of the 'good' ones already.

 

I mean, I know what your saying, and agree completely. I just.. feel guilty passing all those. I mean, I KNOW I'll 'swear' I can even spot them as I drive by.. mocking me for not stopping. Aargh.

 

I have a guilty conscience.

 

Me.

[AZcachemeister]

Go ahead and pass them up.

Perhaps I'll get by and log them someday...

I never stop until fatigue or darkness force me to...usually it's darkness.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Go for the neat one's.

I always try to find stations with uncommon names,neat names or Historic Points.

 

I do an advanced serch and then map out my travels accordingly.

If not you will be all day going 20 miles.

 

I usually space them around 1/4 mid and 3/4 points of the days journey.

I swear I can spot them too as I drive by but with my better 1/2 getting more is always a .....well unless they are cool old buildings,train stations or something very old she does not have much interest.

 

Sometimes getting to those you think are easy are not so easy.

Have fun and enjoy it I will scavange up all those you miss someday.

[foxtrot_xray]

Of course, anyone is welcome to ones I miss!! Heck, often I don't care if another one of you here has gotten a mark I'm going after (for example, I know that someone here just got and reported here about the tri-state (OK, KS, CO) marker - even tho I can't find the thread now - but I'll go grab it anyways. )

 

I leave Monday, and am so freakin' anxious that I can't concentrate. I'm taking the rest of the day off of work.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Post pictures please!

 

Have lots of fun, of course we do not need to tell you that.

 

Shirley~