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Puzzles: How much help should I give?


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Hi folks,

 

After creating my first puzzle cache, I've had a few e-mails from people asking for help ranging from just a few general hints to spelling out the entire method for solving the puzzle.

 

My question to the more experienced folks out there is: Is there a limit on how much help I should be giving on a Puzzle Cache?

 

Isn't the whole idea of the puzzle cache to SOLVE THE PUZZLE? If I'm spelling out exactly how to solve it, doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

 

Thanks in advance for the input.

Edited by daschpeeg
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It's your puzzle--you choose how easy or difficult you want to make it! :rolleyes: You _do_ eventually want folks to find the dang thing, right?? If I can't solve a puzzle fairly easily and I don't get a hint from the owner to help, I'll usually give up. Some folks are more persistent than others, though.

Edited by meralgia
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The cache has only been out for a week and they are already asking for help? :) I'd deny any requests for at least a month. Then I might release a general nudge of a hint to someone who asked nicely if the FTF/puzzle hounds have all logged it, but not if it is still unfound by all.

 

 

walks away muttering about daddgummed senses of entitlement... :rolleyes:

 

And to put this in perspective-I don't solve nor find a lot of puzzles, don't really care for them, and don't have the time to spend solving them. But I would never ever ask the CO for help the first week one was out, and don't think I ever have asked even on a really old puzzle. I have asked to confirm a solution or two though, before we had evince and geochecker available.

Edited by wimseyguy
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Hi folks,

 

After creating my first puzzle cache, I've had a few e-mails from people asking for help ranging from just a few general hints to spelling out the entire method for solving the puzzle.

 

My question to the more experienced folks out there is: Is there a limit on how much help I should be giving on a Puzzle Cache?

 

Isn't the whole idea of the puzzle cache to SOLVE THE PUZZLE? If I'm spelling out exactly how to solve it, doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

 

Thanks in advance for the input.

 

I took a gander at your cache GC1EX03. I'm not sure what your puzzle community is like around the Denver area but in most areas I have experience in, a cache like this with a familiar theme and this accessible would have had a few more finds by now. What gives me additional pause is that after two weekends in your areas new cache listings, your one finder said that he didn't have the coords right.

 

Perhaps it might be a good idea to check your work?

 

If everything checks out, then the previous poster makes a good point. Nobody here can answer this question for you as this is an individual choice you need to make. There is no standard, especially with puzzle caches. You and you alone decide how much help you want to give.

 

Do you want people to find it?

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The cache has only been out for a week and they are already asking for help? :) I'd deny any requests for at least a month. Then I might release a general nudge of a hint to someone who asked nicely if the FTF/puzzle hounds have all logged it, but not if it is still unfound by all.

 

 

walks away muttering about daddgummed senses of entitlement... :rolleyes:

 

And to put this in perspective-I don't solve nor find a lot of puzzles, don't really care for them, and don't have the time to spend solving them. But I would never ever ask the CO for help the first week one was out, and don't think I ever have asked even on a really old puzzle. I have asked to confirm a solution or two though, before we had evince and geochecker available.

 

This is a great example of how different the strokes of the different folks can be. I totally disagree with this advice but neither of us are right or wrong.

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I took a gander at your cache GC1EX03. I'm not sure what your puzzle community is like around the Denver area but in most areas I have experience in, a cache like this with a familiar theme and this accessible would have had a few more finds by now. What gives me additional pause is that after two weekends in your areas new cache listings, your one finder said that he didn't have the coords right.

 

Perhaps it might be a good idea to check your work?

 

If everything checks out, then the previous poster makes a good point. Nobody here can answer this question for you as this is an individual choice you need to make. There is no standard, especially with puzzle caches. You and you alone decide how much help you want to give.

 

Do you want people to find it?

 

I did get a bit nervous after the first log entry, but I've double-checked the puzzle a couple of times and the coordinates work out fine.

 

Ultimately, sure, yes, I DO want people to find it. I guess what I was looking for was more of a general consensus (if there was one) on how far I should go with the hints. :rolleyes:

 

Thanks

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I took a gander at your cache GC1EX03. I'm not sure what your puzzle community is like around the Denver area but in most areas I have experience in, a cache like this with a familiar theme and this accessible would have had a few more finds by now. What gives me additional pause is that after two weekends in your areas new cache listings, your one finder said that he didn't have the coords right.

 

Perhaps it might be a good idea to check your work?

 

If everything checks out, then the previous poster makes a good point. Nobody here can answer this question for you as this is an individual choice you need to make. There is no standard, especially with puzzle caches. You and you alone decide how much help you want to give.

 

Do you want people to find it?

 

I did get a bit nervous after the first log entry, but I've double-checked the puzzle a couple of times and the coordinates work out fine.

 

Ultimately, sure, yes, I DO want people to find it. I guess what I was looking for was more of a general consensus (if there was one) on how far I should go with the hints. :rolleyes:

 

Thanks

 

Okay good.. did you check the accuracy of the coords in the solution?

 

If so.. cache on!

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...My question to the more experienced folks out there is: Is there a limit on how much help I should be giving on a Puzzle Cache?...

 

Yes there is. You as the owner figure out exactly how much info you are willing to give out, and in what format (meter it out over 20 requests for help or one massive serving) and then diligently stick to what you are comfortable with.

 

Beyond that there is no guideline.

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Its your cache, you decide.

If you put a lot of work into the cache and the puzzle and don't want to give it up, then don't!

If you want it to be solved and found, then I would put a few gimmies in there and just see how it goes.

Remember, if you have to, you can give more hints in emails.

 

Its up to you.

 

Some local puzzle cachers will tell you what you need to solve the puzzle (ie websites, books, newspapers, whatever) to find it. They won't give it all away, but merely the method to help you solve it.

 

But then again, you don't have to tell anything.

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Unfortunately, many puzzle creators are unable to view the puzzle from the perspective of someone who does not already know how to solve it. So they end up with impossible to solve (without additional info from the owner) puzzles. They don't understand why everyone can't figure out that they have to look at page 17 of the June 23, 1953 issue of Time magazine to decode it. And, of course, there's nothing on the cache page to even remotely indicate that you have to use page 17 of the June 23, 1953 issue of Time magazine. You're just, you know, supposed to figure it out. :rolleyes:

 

I don't know if this particular puzzle falls into that category. But the owner needs to ask him/herself some questions:

 

What steps would be a reasonable person take to solve it?

 

How would a reasonable person know to take those particular steps?

 

If you can't come up with good answers for both of those, you might want to reconsider your puzzle.

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I haven't looked at your puzzle, so I can't comment specifically, but as mentioned, sometimes what seems easy to a puzzle owner is quite difficult for a finder to work on.

 

I have a couple puzzles and sometimes people ask for a "nudge" just on how to get started. Sometimes a word or two is all that's needed.

Edited by Skippermark
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You kind of need to know your local cache community. Whose willing to do the work and who just wants the coordinates.

 

If it was my puzzle, I wouldn't give too much away until 3 or so finders grab it.

 

But I would ask anyone inquiring about the puzzle where they are stuck or what course of action they are taking to solve the puzzle. This will also help you identify the pieces of the puzzle that might be ambiguous or you might discover "unknown solutions", or see the same errors tripping people up.

 

Also, from the CO's point of view, you need to be aware of the different version of the source that might be out there. Perhaps people are using the wrong version?

(You'd be surprised what people find on the Intertubes)

 

Nice puzzle BTW.

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My question to the more experienced folks out there is: Is there a limit on how much help I should be giving on a Puzzle Cache?

 

When someone first contacts me I attempt to give them a gentle nudge in the right direction, and advise them that if they want more information all they need to do is ask me. That way I don't give too much away for those who want the challenge of solving it themselves but those who are more interested in finding the cache can basically get me to give them step by step instructions.

 

I figure people will do whatever they enjoy, so if they are happy being guided step by step through the solve then who am I to deny them? After all, I put caches out for people to enjoy.

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"...a great example of how different the strokes of the different folks can be"

 

That.

Re the whole thread.

 

Me, I tend to create puzzles based on my intent for the cache....to coincide with how easy or hard vis-a-vis the finding of it will be. I guess you might say, "puzzle with purpose". And the hints given would parallel that, possibly with the 'ease' being adjusted as it ages, & the responses it's gotten.

 

AFA solving them....if it takes solving a puzzle to find it - that's the hider's game! If I can solve it, I get to look for it, and I feel a sense of accomplishment. Some are good at solving puzzles, some are not -- some loath them for a multitude of reasons (but I'd wager it's largely because they suck at solving them *heh heh* )....and some, just flat out don't like puzzles.

 

Of the 'non-solvers' (for whatever reason), you have those who'd lie, cheat & steal - do anything they can to learn the solution, without actually solving it....and those whom if they can't solve it, just don't go looking for that cache. I'm in the latter category. If I can't solve it, I certainly don't want it just handed to me! What would I have accomplished? Where some just can't LIVE with an unfound cache in their area, it purely eats their soul, I'm quite content knowing it's there for solving at some later time. Heck - I don't have a kayak. Why should I get 'eaten up' knowing there's a kayak-hide out there I can't get to?

 

Look - I don't care what you do, you can't please everybody. Some love to solve the difficult puzzles, giving them the feeling they 'cracked' your efforts. Others want not only the coordinates, they'd like you to be standing there, waving a large red flag with one hand & pointing to the cache with the other. And there are those who, if you DON'T give them what THEY consider a sufficient hint (& gawd only knows what that would be)....will get PO'd at you for that. It's one of those "can't win for losing" things. There's a guy around here who, I swear, would prefer you bring any new caches by his house, ring his doorbell, & stand there smiling with the container opened. And I'd bet money if you did, he'd ask "could you sign the log for me?".

(J/K -- but not by much!!)

 

Follow your heart. It's your game.

(Just.....make 'em suffer!) *LOL*

~*

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It is up to you. But as someone who likes to solve puzzle caches, my vote would be No Help. I just got FTF on a puzzle cache that was over a week old (puzzles are the only shot I have at FTF) and from the time I solved it to the time I found it, I was hoping the owner wouldn't add any hints to the page. I didn't tell him about the error I found until after I logged it ;);) . even if I hadn't got FTF, I wouldn't want to see more hints. On another puzzle in my area, the owner kept adding clues to the page, then gave a give-away hint after someone found it -- no fun! I haven't bothered with that one now that it's spelled out for me. At most, maybe a very broad suggestion, like "cryptography" if it's a common crypto scheme.

Edited by Dinoprophet
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It is up to you. But as someone who likes to solve puzzle caches, my vote would be No Help. I just got FTF on a puzzle cache that was over a week old (puzzles are the only shot I have at FTF) and from the time I solved it to the time I found it, I was hoping the owner wouldn't add any hints to the page. I didn't tell him about the error I found until after I logged it ;);) . even if I hadn't got FTF, I wouldn't want to see more hints. On another puzzle in my area, the owner kept adding clues to the page, then gave a give-away hint after someone found it -- no fun! I haven't bothered with that one now that it's spelled out for me. At most, maybe a very broad suggestion, like "cryptography" if it's a common crypto scheme.

 

I think you might be getting the message by now.

 

Again..this is another example of different strokes for different folks. Personally, I love to hear about people finding caches and secretly (and sometimes not so secretly) root for everyone's success. I'm very fortunate in that I have the physical and mental ability to find any cache, of any difficulty, that I really apply myself to finding. I suppose that is why I don't feel I need to begrudge anyone else's efforts like this.

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It is up to you. But as someone who likes to solve puzzle caches, my vote would be No Help. I just got FTF on a puzzle cache that was over a week old (puzzles are the only shot I have at FTF) and from the time I solved it to the time I found it, I was hoping the owner wouldn't add any hints to the page. I didn't tell him about the error I found until after I logged it ;);) . even if I hadn't got FTF, I wouldn't want to see more hints. On another puzzle in my area, the owner kept adding clues to the page, then gave a give-away hint after someone found it -- no fun! I haven't bothered with that one now that it's spelled out for me. At most, maybe a very broad suggestion, like "cryptography" if it's a common crypto scheme.

 

I think you might be getting the message by now.

 

Again..this is another example of different strokes for different folks. Personally, I love to hear about people finding caches and secretly (and sometimes not so secretly) root for everyone's success. I'm very fortunate in that I have the physical and mental ability to find any cache, of any difficulty, that I really apply myself to finding. I suppose that is why I don't feel I need to begrudge anyone else's efforts like this.

I don't know if you meant I was begrudging someone, but I now want to add some details. On the one I found, there were five people watching. I like to think there was an audience, like you say "secretly" watching to see who got it and trying to get it first. So I get that. Holding back the error was only in the interest of an FTF -- uncharacteristic of me, but it was still solvable.

 

With the other -- it's not the fact that hints are out there for other people. Again, several people were watching it, there was some log banter, and it was fun to try and solve it first. Not being first didn't change my wanting to solve and find it. But then the answer was given outright, making the cache equivalent to a traditional (and negating the time already spent trying to solve it). So my interest in finding it became no greater than for any traditional hide.

 

So, my No Hints vote comes from the perspective of hints removing the challenge, and more to the idea of publishing the hints in the clear (which is not what the OP was asking about specifically, I know). It's not that I care if other people have more info than I do; I just have a hard time understanding why they'd want it.

Edited by Dinoprophet
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I don't give out hints until the true puzzle solvers have finished their fun competition. It wouldn't be fair to any of them if I did. If I do give a hint I post it on the cache page and then post a note so everyone watching the cache gets notified by email. I use the audit log to monitor who these people are. Once they've all found the cache then I'm open to helping the next wave of puzzle solvers.

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