Need help with "Archiving" a Cache

August 13, 2008

My son created this Geocache account many years ago and he and his father created at least one Cache. He is grown now and no longer lives at home, he no longer uses this email address or is involved in geocaching.

Anyway, I occassionally get messages that someone has found the cache, and it brings a pleasant smile to my face to remember my son and his father hiking in the woods.

Now, suddenly someone who JUST JOINED Geocache about a month ago has repeatedly posted that this cache is DANGEROUS (in 6 years with 88 finds, I think this is the FIRST time someone has called it "Dangerous".) and is asking that the cache be "Archived". .

Why would it suddenly be considered dangerous after over 6 years and almost 100 people finding it, and if it really is dangerous, how would I go about 'Archiving' it?

Thank you,

Lisa Durham

August 13, 2008

Can you tell us which cache it is?

Can you access your son's e-mail account?

Does he/do you wish to keep this cache open?

Can you visit the cache and make sure it is not dangerous?

Can you adopt the cache from him?

Would your son like to let somebody else adopt it?

38.2k · August 13, 2008

You have 75 happy finders, a number of whom considered it to be among their favorite caches, and two crybabies.

The cache is rated 4 stars for terrain. Not sure what part of that they don't understand.

Anyway, if you are going to archive it, it really should be removed as well, so the geolitter doesn't

stay there forever.

If you still want to archive it, you obviously have access to the account because you posted here with it. Just go to the cache page and in the upper right hand corner of the page you'll see a box with a number of options. One of them is "archive listing". Click on that and it will do it, but again, please remove the box.

If you can't get there to remove it, maybe you can post a note on the page asking the next finder to remove it for you, then you can archive it.

1.5k · August 13, 2008

Yep, have to agree with Brian...the terrain is clear and it's up to everyone to decide their comfort level. Sure it could be a little dangerous...but as long as the terrain is appropriately rated, there's no reason to archive it.

One of my favorite quotes:

"At no point was the smiley worth the danger we were in having to open an ammo box chained to a tree, on a pine straw covered, angled ledge less than 10 feet from a 30 - 40 foot drop onto jagged rocks."

Umm, ok, so then why did you keep going for that smiley?

9.1k · August 13, 2008

Just ignore the notes, as I'm sure your cache reviewer will. (The "needs archived" log gets sent to the Geocaching.com volunteer who looks at caches in your state.)

"Danger" really isn't a valid reason for archiving a cache listing. Geocaching.com isn't in the business of guaranteeing everyone's safety. They're in the business of listing caches. It's up to the finders to decide which ones to hunt for.

I am happy that the memory of your son's geocaching days is kept alive by reading the logs. I'm building similar memories right now with my daughter on a week-long roadtrip. Don't let the whining get in the way of the positive stuff.

August 13, 2008

Just ignore the notes, as I'm sure your cache reviewer will. (The "needs archived" log gets sent to the Geocaching.com volunteer who looks at caches in your state.)

"Danger" really isn't a valid reason for archiving a cache listing. Geocaching.com isn't in the business of guaranteeing everyone's safety. They're in the business of listing caches. It's up to the finders to decide which ones to hunt for.

I am happy that the memory of your son's geocaching days is kept alive by reading the logs. I'm building similar memories right now with my daughter on a week-long roadtrip. Don't let the whining get in the way of the positive stuff.

Danger means nothing to me. If someone dies when going after one of mine I don't archive it. I always remember that little line from the disclaimer, "As a cacher you assume all risk for seeking a cache"

August 13, 2008

I sent a message to the gentleman this morning:

Hello,

In regards to the cache at High Falls, this cache was created in 2002 by my x-husband and my two children. 88 people have visited the cache and for the most part the overwhelming majority have found it to be a good cache.

My x-husband lives in another state and my son has moved away. My daughter said she will go double check in the next week or so and see if somehow it has become closer to the cliff than originally set up. (Erosion, growth of the bush, etc.), however, in 88 finds, no one else has ever felt so strongly that this cache was "dangerous", but we will "do the right thing" and check it out. And IF it really has become dangerous, will 'archive' it.

Thank you,

Lisa Durham

And his response was:

Regardless the number of people that said it was fun, the cache is unsafe.

It hangs over the edge of a 40+ foot sheer drop to rocks below and the footing is covered in pine straw near the edge. The number of anonymous and unverifiable claims of fun will hold little to no weight against a jury's decision.

If anyone is injured or killed because of this cache I will use this correspondence during litigation. One of the members of our caching party is an attorney, and in his opinion, the cache placement constitutes a needless and careless risk to people lives. We took extensive photos to document the placement (which you confirm that your team intentionally placed close to the cliff).

What do you think is going to happen when someone is injured or killed due to the placement of a device you invite people to come get? Your team is responsible for this cache. Do you really want that type of downside risk?

Why did you place it near the edge at all? There are plenty of safer hiding places near the falls. Had someone been hurt before this, you might have claimed that it was unintentional, but now there is no basis for such a defense claim.

Do whatever you wish with the cache, but for our part we will side with any party injured/killed at this cache.

===================================== end quote

I'm not very familiar with GeoCaching, but I thought we were responding appropriately, should we be doing something differently?

I'm not sure what this gentleman's issue is. I'm going to call my son and ask if he's ok with me allowing someone else to take over this cache. I know the place where it's located and it's a beautiful setting. Like I said, I get occassional emails from people and most are positive. I can't imagine why this man has decided to be so confrontational with me.

If someone wants to 'adopt or take over' this cache, please let me know.

Thank you,

L. Durham

1.5k · August 13, 2008

You've done absolutely nothing wrong and this cache placement is perfectly acceptable.

From the terms of use that every "seeker" agrees to when they create an account:

"Geocaching, hiking, backpacking, and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a cache. Be prepared for Your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution. You assume all risks arising in connection with seeking a cache or any other related activity."

Try emailing one of the finders who enjoyed the cache and see if they'd like to adopt it for ongoing maintenance. You can always use this account to "watch" the cache and you'll still get the notifications that you like to read.

The response was out of line...nothing wrong with this cache.

5.3k · August 13, 2008

It seems that you've done everything correctly. If you check the cache out and it's still where you all put it, then you should just ignore that note in the log.

August 13, 2008

That person sounds like an azzhat to me. The cache seeker assumes all responsibility for deciding to go after a cache. It's no different than any other daily activity.

Would you be so kind as to post the GC#?

Duhhhhh....

Edited August 13, 2008 by OzzieSan

1.5k · August 13, 2008

That person sounds like an azzhat to me. The cache seeker assumes all responsibility for deciding to go after a cache. It's no different than any other daily activity.

Would you be so kind as to post the GC#?

Easy enough to work it out from the profile.

High Falls

P.S. Sounds like a great cache to me.

August 13, 2008

I'm assuming this is the right number, it's from the upper left hand of the page of the log:

GC7366

Highfalls, AL

Trez is my son's username.

youguys reply too fast for me to keep up!

Edited August 13, 2008 by Trez

August 13, 2008

I like this bit...

If anyone is injured or killed because of this cache I will use this correspondence during litigation. One of the members of our caching party is an attorney, and in his opinion, the cache placement constitutes a needless and careless risk to people lives. We took extensive photos to document the placement (which you confirm that your team intentionally placed close to the cliff).

And you could always use the logs of the previous finders to argue his point.

I wonder what this guy would say about this cache?

....

A shout out to handycapt, let us decide for ourselves what is dangerous and unobtainable! You are not required to log all caches as "found it"!

1.2k · August 13, 2008

Hey,

As everyone else is saying, leave the cache...no one is forced to find each and every cache out there. If they didn't like it, they should have turned back. Eventually, they will catch on to this fact...it took me a while to "realize" that as well

Besides, take a look at all the pictures that have been posted to the page...seems people are having a great time.

Later,

ArcherDragoon

August 13, 2008

First, I have to say that even at 54 years old, I especially enjoy caches where I have to rappel down the side of a cliff and dangle from the rope while signing the log. Look at my avatar. So, you may not think my comments especially helpful

And here are some caches that I placed which don't require rappelling. But they are close to unguarded cliffs in a forest where hunting is allowed! OMG! Whatever will we do?

Two Towers: Barad-Dûr

Two Towers: Rivendell

Second, it's not usually considered wise to use your real name in a public newsgroup.

And his response was:

If anyone is injured or killed because of this cache I will use this correspondence during litigation.

I have to tell you, I laughed out loud when I read this part. Oh, HE "will use this correspondence during litigation" Bwahahahahahaha!!! As what? An expert witness?

One of the members of our caching party is an attorney, and in his opinion, the cache placement constitutes a needless and careless risk to people lives. We took extensive photos to document the placement (which you confirm that your team intentionally placed close to the cliff).

Bwahahahahaha!!!!

"Excuse me, your Honor. I know I have nothing to do with this case and it's none of my business but I have these emails and posts from a public newsgroup that your Honor might find relevant. Let me just weed out some of this spam. Oh, and did I mention the 'plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and twenty seven 8x10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one is?' We also took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to mention the aerial photography." - apologies to Arlo Guthrie

Bwahahahahaha!!!!

I'd ignore him. He and his lawyer friend are not worth you getting upset or changing your son's cache (Which, BTW, sounds like a cache I would like to find)

Lastly, where's Vinny & Sue when you need them?

24.7k · August 13, 2008

....There are plenty of safer hiding places near the falls. ...

This is an interesting thing. For one thing some states have a recreational exempting to liability that says “If you don’t charge for people to use your land to recreate, you are not liable for any harm”.

The gist of the law is that if you don’t charge for the use of your land you are not making any kind of warrantee to the user. I don’t have the right legal terms. However Wal Mart by inviting people to shop and charging for goods and services is implying that it’s reasonably safe to come there and shop. You by not charging are not making any such implication.

Ignoring that I’d ask that person to suggest a safe location. They said there were plenty, but I’d bet they would refuse to name a single specifically identifieable one because they are so paralyzed by legal fear that they would not name one lest they be responsible for someone getting hurt on a ‘safe’ place. This of course means there is no such thing as a truly safe place and they recognize it. If they can’t name a safer place such that you can place the cache there and thank them in the listing for the location then clearly they can’t expect you to do the same.

The person is confusing legal issues. That’s not to say you can’t be sued. Anyone can be sued at any time for anything. Just most attorneys won’t bother if there is no money in it. There is no money in it if it’s a losing case, or if they can win but they are effectively suing a turnip for blood.

A lot of attorneys posture like sumo wrestlers just starting a match. They huff, and puff, and bluff and hope to scare their foe into submission.

Here is a great example.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/index.htm

In your case, you aren’t even dealing with the attorney, instead you are working with a person who’s invoking the attorney’s legal aura for their own use.

August 13, 2008

Well there's the problem right there. A lawyer is involved. Of course.

This looks like a great cache to go find! I hope if you do decide to let it go, one of the local finders can adopt it.

August 13, 2008

Oh, and reading the logs, it appears that this cache was found by the Clay County Sheriff's department on Feb 10, 2007. They investigated it because it was reported as a suspicious object but there is no indication (unless in the note they left in the cache) that it was dangerous and had to be removed.

Huh? If it was so dangerous maybe the finder and his attorney friend should ask the Sheriff's dept why they didn't remove it?

August 13, 2008

Sounds like a great cache. Leave it just as it is, and try to find someone to adopt it if you really want to get rid of it.

For no reason whatsoever, I decided I would include in this post a random quote from Wikipedia: "Clowns are comic performers, stereotypically characterized by their grotesque appearance: colored wigs, stylistic makeup, outlandish costumes, unusually large footwear, etc., who entertain spectators by acting in a ridiculous fashion. Types of their acts vary greatly."

August 13, 2008

Since the word litigation has appeared in this thread I feel compelled to add.

I am not a lawyer, nor have I played on on TV!

Nothing to see here people... Move along.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled caching!

August 13, 2008

JMO Every time I go caching it is dangerous. There are so many ways to get hurt or killed every day let alone out caching. Ignore this guy. The funny thing is that when someone dose not like something they always say "well I've Got this friend of a friend that Knows this guy" Let it be. JMO

9.2k · August 13, 2008

I'm assuming this is the right number, it's from the upper left hand of the page of the log:

GC7366

Highfalls, AL

Trez is my son's username.

youguys reply too fast for me to keep up!

I would email this person, and inform them of the Term Of Use he agreed to when he signed up to use this site:

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking, and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a cache. Be prepared for Your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution. You assume all risks arising in connection with seeking a cache or any other related activity.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Prime Suspect

August 13, 2008

I sent a message to the gentleman this morning:

Hello,

In regards to the cache at High Falls, this cache was created in 2002 by my x-husband and my two children. 88 people have visited the cache and for the most part the overwhelming majority have found it to be a good cache.

My x-husband lives in another state and my son has moved away. My daughter said she will go double check in the next week or so and see if somehow it has become closer to the cliff than originally set up. (Erosion, growth of the bush, etc.), however, in 88 finds, no one else has ever felt so strongly that this cache was "dangerous", but we will "do the right thing" and check it out. And IF it really has become dangerous, will 'archive' it.

Thank you,

Lisa Durham

And his response was:

Regardless the number of people that said it was fun, the cache is unsafe.

It hangs over the edge of a 40+ foot sheer drop to rocks below and the footing is covered in pine straw near the edge. The number of anonymous and unverifiable claims of fun will hold little to no weight against a jury's decision.

If anyone is injured or killed because of this cache I will use this correspondence during litigation. One of the members of our caching party is an attorney, and in his opinion, the cache placement constitutes a needless and careless risk to people lives. We took extensive photos to document the placement (which you confirm that your team intentionally placed close to the cliff).

What do you think is going to happen when someone is injured or killed due to the placement of a device you invite people to come get? Your team is responsible for this cache. Do you really want that type of downside risk?

Why did you place it near the edge at all? There are plenty of safer hiding places near the falls. Had someone been hurt before this, you might have claimed that it was unintentional, but now there is no basis for such a defense claim.

Do whatever you wish with the cache, but for our part we will side with any party injured/killed at this cache.

===================================== end quote

I'm not very familiar with GeoCaching, but I thought we were responding appropriately, should we be doing something differently?

I'm not sure what this gentleman's issue is. I'm going to call my son and ask if he's ok with me allowing someone else to take over this cache. I know the place where it's located and it's a beautiful setting. Like I said, I get occassional emails from people and most are positive. I can't imagine why this man has decided to be so confrontational with me.

If someone wants to 'adopt or take over' this cache, please let me know.

Thank you,

L. Durham

DO NOT ARCHIVE THIS LISTING.... Email them back and tell them to look at the thing that says by seeking a cache you agrre to the disclaimer, listed on EVERY cache page. Keep it up. IF THEY DIE and take you to court inform Groundspeak. YOU WILL WIN THE COURT TRIAL. When signing up they agreed to the Tems of use and disclaimer. They probably didn't read it but keep that in mind. Give the person the link to this forum.

August 13, 2008

Give the person the link to this forum.

I think that's the best idea I've heard all day.

Thanks,

Lisa

August 13, 2008

Give the person the link to this forum.

I think that's the best idea I've heard all day.

Thanks,

Lisa

Morons rule the world, this is just another example.

If I arrive at the cache and I don't feel comfy about getting it, I go on my way.

I find it hard to believe this cacher who has been at this a month is calling out a ARCHIVE. Nice.

Does he understand his words to you could be taken as a threat?

Like I said, he is a MORON.

Leave it be. Or if you can, find an adopter....

8.3k · August 13, 2008

Little late to the party but ...

Probably this guy went to get the cache, chickened out but took the smiley anyway. To cover his tracks he wants the cache archived so no one can find out he did not sign the log. Or he is a card carrying member of Jerks of America.

Jim

August 13, 2008

I emailed the gentleman a link to this conversation.

Thanks to everyone for the input.

My son and daughter (both now grown) are going to get together this weekend and go check on the cache.

This will probably be the first time they have been hiking together in about 5 years. :-)

Something good coming of some idiot ranting and raving, eh?

Thanks again,

Lisa

August 13, 2008

Just adding my two cents... I agree with what has been said, and would absolutely go after this cache. I really hope you don't archive it just because some @#$%& (apologies for using harsh symbols) overstepped his personal safety bubble. Not all of us are marshmallows when it comes to outdoor activities.

2.5k · August 14, 2008

I wouldn't send him any more notes, or reply to any more of his. If he continues to threaten you with legal action in emails, you might want to let the nice folks at Groundspeak know about the emails. They really don't take kindly to folks writing abusive letters using their system.

It sounds to me like he may have gotten into a bit more than he bargained for, became frightened, over-reacted and took it out on the cache page. His log was an over-reaction but not personal, but his email was not appropriate.

I'd go after that cache and I am out of shape and getting old. If I didn't think I could tackle it safely, I'd turn around and go find something more my speed without complaining.

August 14, 2008

I'm guessing George and ??? were with Handyman (ILC)?

Found it, but I am going to have to disagree with the previous posts. This is our most unpleasant find so far. At no point was the smiley worth the danger we were in ...

What a crock! If it was so dangerous why the heck did you continue? I guess the smiley was actually worth it. You and handyman should be ashamed of yourselves! Now leave the tough caches alone and stick to the 1/1's... :laughing:

August 14, 2008

I ALWAYS remember this:

"Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution."

:laughing:

Edited August 14, 2008 by Chumpo

August 15, 2008

I emailed the gentleman a link to this conversation.

Thanks to everyone for the input.

My son and daughter (both now grown) are going to get together this weekend and go check on the cache.

This will probably be the first time they have been hiking together in about 5 years. :-)

Something good coming of some idiot ranting and raving, eh?

Thanks again,

Lisa

Glad to hear this one will be checked on by the owner I have added it to my watchlist so I can be updated. Again DON'T ARCHIVE IT. Keep that disclaimer in mind. PM sent to Trez.

August 17, 2008

Glad to hear this one will be checked on by the owner I have added it to my watchlist so I can be updated. Again DON'T ARCHIVE IT. Keep that disclaimer in mind. PM sent to Trez.

So the kids went out to check on the GeoCache yesterday. It is still chained to the same bush, but it had been moved around towards the drop off side. They moved it back to the trail side. Even so, the drop was a good 10 feet away from where the cache is, and the drop is approximately 15 feet, not 30 or 40 as the complainer indicated. The cache IS ON A VISIBLE WORN TRAIL, hidden only by the pine straw and leaves from sight, and the log indicates that it has been frequently found by accident (not Geocachers looking for it.) It really isn't as if it's way off the trail hanging over a precipice as the gentleman Handycapt implied in his post on the cache page and in his emails to me.

They did find the note from the Clay County Sherriff's Department, it simply said "Please notify Clay Co. Sherriff Office next time you do this." It was dated 2-10-2007 and indicated that they left it at 1:00 p.m.

The kids put a new log book in and added some stuff to the cache, should one of them post on the cache page?

By the way, the very interesting thing was that there were NO entries in the logbook from August... the last log was in July 2008.

The log book does show several repeat visits from at least three different GeoCachers.

One last note... my 19 year old daughter twisted her ankle Friday (unrelated to the cache at all) and had to go have it x-rayed to make sure she hadn't fractured anything.. .pretty tough sprain... she STILL made it to this cache Saturday morning to check on it. I can't imagine it being THAT tough or dangerous to get to if she could make it to the cach hobbling with a wrapped ankle.

Thanks to all for the input...

:laughing:

1.5k · August 17, 2008

Glad to hear this one will be checked on by the owner I have added it to my watchlist so I can be updated. Again DON'T ARCHIVE IT. Keep that disclaimer in mind. PM sent to Trez.

So the kids went out to check on the GeoCache yesterday. It is still chained to the same bush, but it had been moved around towards the drop off side. They moved it back to the trail side. Even so, the drop was a good 10 feet away from where the cache is, and the drop is approximately 15 feet, not 30 or 40 as the complainer indicated. The cache IS ON A VISIBLE WORN TRAIL, hidden only by the pine straw and leaves from sight, and the log indicates that it has been frequently found by accident (not Geocachers looking for it.) It really isn't as if it's way off the trail hanging over a precipice as the gentleman Handycapt implied in his post on the cache page and in his emails to me.

They did find the note from the Clay County Sherriff's Department, it simply said "Please notify Clay Co. Sherriff Office next time you do this." It was dated 2-10-2007 and indicated that they left it at 1:00 p.m.

The kids put a new log book in and added some stuff to the cache, should one of them post on the cache page?

By the way, the very interesting thing was that there were NO entries in the logbook from August... the last log was in July 2008.

The log book does show several repeat visits from at least three different GeoCachers.

One last note... my 19 year old daughter twisted her ankle Friday (unrelated to the cache at all) and had to go have it x-rayed to make sure she hadn't fractured anything.. .pretty tough sprain... she STILL made it to this cache Saturday morning to check on it. I can't imagine it being THAT tough or dangerous to get to if she could make it to the cach hobbling with a wrapped ankle.

Thanks to all for the input...

Amazing clarification by someone else visiting the site.

Yes, it would nice for them to post an owner maintenance log from this account onto the page. It's not a requirement, but it's a nice way to let other finders know that everything is in great shape and to further ignore the foolish previous logs (I wouldn't say that in their note. )

38.2k · August 17, 2008

By the way, the very interesting thing was that there were NO entries in the logbook from August... the last log was in July 2008.

So not only is the guy a busybody, he logs caches he didn't find. No signature in logbook = no find. He probably saw where the GPS was pointing and didn't even bother to look for it. Sorry, not a find.

I'd delete his phony log.

2.7k · August 17, 2008

The kids put a new log book in and added some stuff to the cache, should one of them post on the cache page?

Yes. An owner maintenance log lets everybody know the owner still cares about this hide. It will also clear the "needs maintenance" attribute showing there now.

By the way, the very interesting thing was that there were NO entries in the logbook from August... the last log was in July 2008.

Many owners rightly feel that, no log book entry - delete online entry. But that would remove the geo names of people who seem to be more suited to parking lot micro's. They have gone so far out of their way to identify themselves, it would be a shame to undo that. Just point out in your maintenance log that there were no log book entries for August. That would be enough said.

August 17, 2008

The kids put a new log book in and added some stuff to the cache, should one of them post on the cache page?
Yes. An owner maintenance log lets everybody know the owner still cares about this hide. It will also clear the "needs maintenance" attribute showing there now.

By the way, the very interesting thing was that there were NO entries in the logbook from August... the last log was in July 2008.
Many owners rightly feel that, no log book entry - delete online entry. But that would remove the geo names of people who seem to be more suited to parking lot micro's. They have gone so far out of their way to identify themselves, it would be a shame to undo that. Just point out in your maintenance log that there were no log book entries for August. That would be enough said.

No Sig in Log? That = NO FIND.... I would delete the find from them.

Certainly, just leave an update saying that you have checked the cache, it is good, and that a new log was put in place. Also you might add that info you told us in there just in case. But you don't have to.

August 18, 2008

Keep talking. It's easier than thinking.

Edited August 18, 2008 by handycapt

38.2k · August 18, 2008

Glad to see all of you willing to speak about a cache you know nothing about.
Typical.

Though I wasn't at the cache site, to say I know nothing about it is absurd. A look at the logs show that the cache has been there for over 6 years and had 80 (74 finds and 6 DNFs) searchers without a complaint. Many searchers praised the cache as one of the best they have found.

Most importantly when I look at the cache page I see this:

The definition for 4 star terrain is as follows:

Experienced outdoor enthusiasts only. (Terrain is probably off-trail. Will have one or more of the following: very heavy overgrowth, very steep elevation (requiring use of hands), or more than a 10 mile hike. May require an overnight stay.)

That tells me that it's very difficult terrain and could involve some danger. Because you chose to search for a cache that was over your head is your problem.

1.5k · August 18, 2008

Glad to see all of you willing to speak about a cache you know nothing about.

Typical.

The cache page states:

"A cache that requires some up hill walking and climbing.It is a little off of the trail. Dont worry about being to adventurse to find the cache. A good bit of rumaging around is needed.Cache is an ammo box with a bright silver chain on it.There is some nice terrain so enjoy the hike.Fixed contents:Logbook,pencil sharpner,pens and pencils,camera."

There isn't an accurate statement in that paragraph.

Dangerous caches normally carry an appropriate description and warning. "Use appropriate climbing equipment", "this should not be attempted by experienced climbers". This cache does the opposite.

It leads you to a 40+ foot vertical drop to the falls rocks below and the area is quite slippery (due to the pine straw) and describes it as "Don't worry about being to adventurse (sic)".

We didn't realize what we were getting into until we hit GZ.

So everybody just chill with the uninformed advice to the cache owner. She's the one responsible and your machismo speculating and chest beating is of no value.

You have a problem? Correspond with me directly instead of whining and crying in the forums where you feel safe with your pack mentality. I doubt any of you will, however. If you were actually concerned you would have already contacted me instead of venting in the forum.

And to the owner. Keep all the documentation flowing. It's all going into a file.

I didn't see any reason to correspond with you...the cache owner asked a question and I responded to it. Now that you're in the discussion, I'd be happy to address anything with you directly.

I've done a terrain 4 cache that required you to walk along a very narrow ledge above a decent sized drop. While equipment might have been "safer", it wasn't required and therefore wasn't a terrain 5. I knew what to expect as I was heading for that cache.

Sorry that you found this 4 star terrain a little more than you'd anticipated. I still see nothing overly dangerous in anything you or the original poster has described. I wouldn't turn my kids loose to run up to it, but I'd be glad to go after this cache and it sounds like a lot of fun.

5.3k · August 18, 2008

I'm still wondering why the poster logged the cache as found on the website without signing the logbook.

Oh, and good luck with the lawsuit. Seriously.

To the OP, I would recommend not corresponding any further with this person.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Motorcycle_Mama

August 18, 2008

I usually post these in the Found It = Didn't Find It part of the forum but thought this was relevent to the discussion.

A log from A NIGHT OUT ON THE TOWN by Team Fossas (GC1D21Y)

:laughing: August 16 by Whiner and Complainer (83 found)

Found it the third visit. Didn't have pen so didn't sign log.

August 18, 2008

Just got in tonight after being gone all day.

The posts from Handycapt have been removed from the cache page, we didn't remove them. Does that mean he's gone in and retracted his posts?

I recieved another email from him:

From: handycapt [mailto:handycapt@gmail.com]

Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 8:51 PM

Subject: High Falls

Too bad you had to behave so badly in the forums. Let’s see how many of them rush to your assistance when something happens.

I can see by your behavior, spelling, and attitude that trying to get you to act properly is a waste of time.

My next step is to contact the local sheriff’s department and provide them with your contact information.

??? okie.

G'night folks. Thanks for all the information.

Lisa

1.5k · August 18, 2008

Just got in tonight after being gone all day.

The posts from Handycapt have been removed from the cache page, we didn't remove them. Does that mean he's gone in and retracted his posts?

I recieved another email from him:

From: handycapt [mailto:handycapt@gmail.com]

Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 8:51 PM

Subject: High Falls

Too bad you had to behave so badly in the forums. Let’s see how many of them rush to your assistance when something happens.

I can see by your behavior, spelling, and attitude that trying to get you to act properly is a waste of time.

My next step is to contact the local sheriff’s department and provide them with your contact information.

??? okie.

G'night folks. Thanks for all the information.

Lisa

Yep, he probably deleted the logs. I wouldn't give it another thought and wouldn't correspond with him further.

8.3k · August 18, 2008

Just got in tonight after being gone all day.

The posts from Handycapt have been removed from the cache page, we didn't remove them. Does that mean he's gone in and retracted his posts?

I recieved another email from him:

From: handycapt [mailto:handycapt@gmail.com]

Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 8:51 PM

Subject: High Falls

Too bad you had to behave so badly in the forums. Let’s see how many of them rush to your assistance when something happens.

I can see by your behavior, spelling, and attitude that trying to get you to act properly is a waste of time.

My next step is to contact the local sheriff’s department and provide them with your contact information.

??? okie.

G'night folks. Thanks for all the information.

Lisa

My guess he is about 14 years old and his parents have no clue what he is doing on the computer. He is po'ed that you called his hand and he got caught. As for contacting the sheriff, what for? Apparently the sheriff already knows the cache is there. I would just filter his messages with a route straight to the trash can.

Jim

2.7k · August 18, 2008

Wow. Stay as far away from this person as possible. I sense issues !!!!!!!

Trez, I think your behavior, spelling, and attitude have been darn good. I very quickly scanned this thread again, and nothing jumped out at me. Can anyone actually find a misspelled word by Trez? And even if one or two can be pointed out in all this discussion, so what. We can all see what the real problem is.

Note: Noticed I missed an "s" in discussion, and had to fix it.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Cardinal Red

August 18, 2008

Has anyone noticed that this man has now removed not only his posts (there were two) from the cache page, but removed his picture from his profile, and came back to this forum and basically removed his diatribe from this page as well?

I am now starting to get the creeps from this, and all I was trying to do from the beginning was let him know that I saw his complaint and someone would check it out.

things grow stranger by the moment.....

August 18, 2008

My guess he is about 14 years old and his parents have no clue what he is doing on the computer.

Doubt it. Look at what the other folks who found the cache on August 9 wrote in their profile.

"Right now we do not have our own GPSr because the graduate student budget is tight so we cache with my dad (handycapt)."

He is po'ed that you called his hand and he got caught. As for contacting the sheriff, what for? Apparently the sheriff already knows the cache is there.

Well, I would agree with that about him getting caught. As for contacting the sheriff, handycapt has threatened to do that but the CO was asked to do that by the sheriff and therefore has legitimate reason. If I was CO, I think I would contact the sheriff as requested, but also mention handycapt's behavior/threats. I would point out that this is a game, that there was adequate permission to place the cache and that it conforms to Groundspeak's caching guidelines. No one cares that the cache does not meet handycapt's guidelines and he has no business threatening legal action. I suspect the sheriff will be smart enough to recognize who is the wack job.

24.7k · August 18, 2008

Just got in tonight after being gone all day.

The posts from Handycapt have been removed from the cache page, we didn't remove them. Does that mean he's gone in and retracted his posts?

I recieved another email from him:

From: handycapt [mailto:handycapt@gmail.com]

Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 8:51 PM

Subject: High Falls

Too bad you had to behave so badly in the forums. Let’s see how many of them rush to your assistance when something happens.

I can see by your behavior, spelling, and attitude that trying to get you to act properly is a waste of time.

My next step is to contact the local sheriff’s department and provide them with your contact information.

??? okie.

G'night folks. Thanks for all the information.

Lisa

The well worn trail along the edge tells me that people walk in the area often. One thing I would do is follow up on the note from the Sheriff's department. My encounters with the sherrifs office were actually pleasent. They were happy that my cache was not part of an elaborate drug trafficing scheme.

24.7k · August 18, 2008

Keep talking. It's easier than thinking.

Rationalization isn't thinking. It's just a convoluted way to for someone to convince themselves that they are right. It seldom withstands scuteny, but the denial often does.

Need help with "Archiving" a Cache

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