Probably easy question for ya all...

[+greg1701]

Found a BM yesterday (LM0288)... it is stamped 1954, but the log has it monumented in the 1960s... is this common? Could they have created the mark but then not placed it for 7 years? I'm certain I have the right one (coordinates are adjusted and description is dead on perfect for location...)

 

Just wondering...

 

Thanks

Greg

Edited August 11, 2008 by greg1701

[+PFF]

Hi, Greg,

 

Perhaps I can shed some light on the history of the disk. That stamping on the disk was 1934 (not 1954). The digits three and five are difficult to distinguish, after years of exposure to weather.

 

The mark was set in 1934. However, it was not entered in the NGS database until 1969, when its position was established to NGS standards. Notice in the data sheet below, that the MONUMENTED date is 35 years before the year it was "described by the US Geological Survey".

 

By the way, this is not uncommon. You will run across other marks with different monumented and described dates. It is similar to what you see in data sheets for very old water tanks: "First described in 1918...", etc.

 

-Paul-

 

LM0288_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 13TCE4670773520(NAD 83)

LM0288_MARKER: DB = BENCH MARK DISK

LM0288_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT

LM0288_SP_SET: CONCRETE POST

LM0288_STAMPING: C 45 1934

LM0288_MARK LOGO: CGS

LM0288_MAGNETIC: N = NO MAGNETIC MATERIAL

LM0288_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO

LM0288+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION

LM0288_SATELLITE: THE SITE LOCATION WAS REPORTED AS SUITABLE FOR

LM0288+SATELLITE: SATELLITE OBSERVATIONS - May 18, 1999

LM0288

LM0288 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

LM0288 HISTORY - 1969 MONUMENTED CGS

LM0288 HISTORY - 1969 GOOD USGS

LM0288 HISTORY - 19910725 GOOD NGS

LM0288 HISTORY - 19960823 GOOD CODOT

LM0288 HISTORY - 19971007 GOOD CODOT

LM0288 HISTORY - 19990518 GOOD MSAM

LM0288 HISTORY - 20071020 GOOD INDIV

LM0288

LM0288 STATION DESCRIPTION

LM0288

LM0288 DESCRIBED BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1969

LM0288'6.8 MI S FROM STEAMBOAT SPRINGS.

LM0288'STEAMBOAT SPRINGS, 6.8 MILES S OF POST OFFICE ALONG US HWY. 40. 70 FT

LM0288'E AND 20 FT N OF CENTER OF HWY. 40 AND GRADED ROAD WEST. 1.7 FT W OF

LM0288'ROW FENCE.

LM0288

[+greg1701]

Hi, Greg,

 

Perhaps I can shed some light on the history of the disk. That stamping on the disk was 1934 (not 1954). The digits three and five are difficult to distinguish, after years of exposure to weather.

 

The mark was set in 1934. However, it was not entered in the NGS database until 1969, when its position was established to NGS standards. Notice in the data sheet below, that the MONUMENTED date is 35 years before the year it was "described by the US Geological Survey".

 

By the way, this is not uncommon. You will run across other marks with different monumented and described dates. It is similar to what you see in data sheets for very old water tanks: "First described in 1918...", etc.

 

-Paul-

 

LM0288_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 13TCE4670773520(NAD 83)

LM0288_MARKER: DB = BENCH MARK DISK

LM0288_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT

LM0288_SP_SET: CONCRETE POST

LM0288_STAMPING: C 45 1934

LM0288_MARK LOGO: CGS

LM0288_MAGNETIC: N = NO MAGNETIC MATERIAL

LM0288_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO

LM0288+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION

LM0288_SATELLITE: THE SITE LOCATION WAS REPORTED AS SUITABLE FOR

LM0288+SATELLITE: SATELLITE OBSERVATIONS - May 18, 1999

LM0288

LM0288 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

LM0288 HISTORY - 1969 MONUMENTED CGS

LM0288 HISTORY - 1969 GOOD USGS

LM0288 HISTORY - 19910725 GOOD NGS

LM0288 HISTORY - 19960823 GOOD CODOT

LM0288 HISTORY - 19971007 GOOD CODOT

LM0288 HISTORY - 19990518 GOOD MSAM

LM0288 HISTORY - 20071020 GOOD INDIV

LM0288

LM0288 STATION DESCRIPTION

LM0288

LM0288 DESCRIBED BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1969

LM0288'6.8 MI S FROM STEAMBOAT SPRINGS.

LM0288'STEAMBOAT SPRINGS, 6.8 MILES S OF POST OFFICE ALONG US HWY. 40. 70 FT

LM0288'E AND 20 FT N OF CENTER OF HWY. 40 AND GRADED ROAD WEST. 1.7 FT W OF

LM0288'ROW FENCE.

LM0288

 

upon further review, yep.. '34 it is.. do you have a photo of it? How did you know that?

 

I just put my pic up on the site of that mark.. thanks for the info Paul!!

[Difficult Run]

I have to laugh... not much gets past Paul. He's good - very good!

 

I'll say that the font on the stamping dies during that era is the real culprit - It's fooled me many times over.

However, as you gain more experience in hunting those elusive disks, you'll start to see the bigger picture.

 

Take a look at these "sister" benchmarks - all were set in 1934.

A 45

B 45

D 45

 

Instead of setting new disks, the CGS/NGS would use existing benchmarks, (whenever possible).

So the monumented date is when the disk was first set into the ground and the described date is when the GGS/NGS accepted it into their database.

 

Have fun!

~ Mitch ~

[Wintertime]

Greg, I'm surprised that the USGS listed the same year (1969) for the monumentation date and the date in which they first surveyed LM0288 for inclusion in the NGS database. Usually in those cases--where the mark information was not submitted to the NGS right after it was set--I see the notation "UNK" for the monumentation date.

 

HR0824 is an example of that:

 

HR0824 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

HR0824 HISTORY - UNK MONUMENTED HHWS

HR0824 HISTORY - 1956 GOOD NGS

HR0824 HISTORY - 20080718 GOOD GEOCAC

(Wow, Deb posted my recovery report already! I just submitted it a week ago.)

 

Sorry, the forum software doesn't recognize the spaces required to format that data into columns, but I think you can get the drift.

 

Patty

[+greg1701]

thanks for all the info folks!

 

Greg