60CSx Autorouting is very flaky with City Nav 2008

[+gahboo]

Hello all, I searched and did not find anything directly answering this question, so sorry if it is a repeat.

 

I have a 60CSx with City Nav 2008 running. The thing's autorouting is absolutely psychotic. I often like to lay out detailed routes in MapSource using waypoints. I then make the route which contains the waypoints and upload them into the GPSR.

 

In the past I used a 2610 on my motorcycle. It ALWAYS routed exactly like MapSource, given that the routing setups were the same. On the 2610, the route preference options were identical to what was in the GPSR. Not so with the 60CSx. The 60CSx uses a much simpler routing preference setup.

 

So, what usually happens is this - I upload the "route", and the 60CSx upon its first calculation of route usually comes up with something completely different from what MapSource has routed. Additionally, if I take the GPRS out riding, and for some reason need to recalc a route, who knows what I will get? The 60CSx actually oftentimes simply IGNORES waypoints that are clearly contained in the route. If you go to Route setup and look at the waypoints, all the waypoints are there. Just the autoroute functionality does not necessarily incorporate the waypoints into the route.

 

Just today, I had a route with waypoints marked about every 5 miles. It was a 300 mile route. Half way through the ride, the GPSR recelculated and suggested I turn around and return the way I came (the "shortest" route). I turned the routing preference to "fastest time" and recalced. It took me further south via interstate. In both cases, about 50 waypoints were completely ignored.

 

So, I am frustrated, to say the least. I love the 60CSx for caching, but for use as a road navigation tool, so far, I am extraordinarily underwhelmed.

 

How do I / should I "reset" this thing?

 

What am I missing here? Any advice for a guy who admittedly knows little?

 

Thanks,

[+gahboo]

What I would really like to do is transfer a route EXACTLY as it is defined in MapSource - not recalc it at all - and then just turn off recalc on the GPSR. I find that the 60CSx is so slow at recalc that it is just better to let it be and drive back to the purple line and get back on the route. If you do this, the GPSR will recognize it and continue navigation as normal once you return to the route.

 

But, it seems that the 60CSx forces a recalc when you load the route. The "route" actually does not contain the routing instructions. Just the waypoints, or so it seems.

 

I want the route to show exactly like I tell it to. I do not use the GPS to find an unknown address. I use it as a sort of moving map to track where I am in relation to where I planned to be.

 

Maybe this is just what I will have to deal with when using the 60CSx. It will find any address fine. Does great routing when that is needed. But when you are trying to make it track a given route you specifically want to follow, it stinks. (Or more probably, I just do not know how to work it properly yet)

 

Thanks

[Motorcycle_Mama]

The unit is going to recalculate the route no matter what. The way around this is to add enough Waypoints to the route to "force" it to go exactly where you want. Basically, you don't give it any other option but to go the way you want.

[+gahboo]

The unit is going to recalculate the route no matter what. The way around this is to add enough Waypoints to the route to "force" it to go exactly where you want. Basically, you don't give it any other option but to go the way you want.

 

Yes, I know about that trick and have done it. You would think that it would work, but on my machine it does not. The route often just ignores the waypoints. Normally, when I have an exact route I want to take, I put a waypoint at every intersection.

 

It just does not work on my GPSR for some reason.

[+fratermus]

It does not work because CN+autorouting unit = only the start and end points of the route are xferred, IIRC>

 

I have done this with MG, by the way. Sent the exact same route to a routing and nonrouting GPSr. The routing GPSr only got the start and end. The foretrex got the start, all the via points, and the end.

 

I don't know if MapSource doesn't send the viapoints or if the GPSr drops them. If the former, perhaps you could upload with easygps or something.

[xxgg]

Yes.

I also would like to why calculation done by Mapsource is different than calculation done by the GPS unit itself?

[+Team_LPD]

I have a GPS60CSX and it follows any routes I upload to it. Like the other poster said, I make sure I have plenty of waypoints added to make sure it follows the route I planned.

 

Waypoints before and after turns, etc.

[roybassist]

It does not work because CN+autorouting unit = only the start and end points of the route are xferred, IIRC>

 

I have done this with MG, by the way. Sent the exact same route to a routing and nonrouting GPSr. The routing GPSr only got the start and end. The foretrex got the start, all the via points, and the end.

 

I don't know if MapSource doesn't send the viapoints or if the GPSr drops them. If the former, perhaps you could upload with easygps or something.

That isn't how it works on my 76CSx. All waypoints and map via points that are in the route in MapSource get transferred to my receiver. There is a limit of 50 points per auto route, 250 for non-auto routes.

 

What autorouting unit were you using? I believe some of the dedicated auto units support only one via point. Maybe some don't support any?

[roybassist]

The route often just ignores the waypoints. Normally, when I have an exact route I want to take, I put a waypoint at every intersection.

 

It just does not work on my GPSR for some reason.

If you’re absolutely sure that the route being transferred to the unit contains those waypoints, then something is seriously wrong. I have a 76CSx, and it faithfully honors true waypoints. I think I recall very rare occasions where my old 76CS didn’t honor map vias, but I haven’t seen that since upgrading to the 76CSx. (Map vias = via points created in a route by dragging and dropping the route in MapSource.)

 

If your unit really isn’t going through waypoints that are contained in a route, I would recommend you call Garmin about it. That isn’t normal and I can’t think of any setting that would cause it to bypass waypoints.

[+fratermus]

It's real easy to test; the OP could download the route from the GPSr using a non-Mapsource program and see whether or not the waypoints are there. I suspect they are not.

 

If they are, then the gps could nav off-road and get waypoint to waypoint pointers, I guess.

[roybassist]

It's real easy to test; the OP could download the route from the GPSr using a non-Mapsource program and see whether or not the waypoints are there.

He could also just go to the routes page, highlight the route and press ENTER. Doing that will show the details of the route, including any waypoints or map vias that are included in it.

[+fratermus]

You'd think so.

 

But if we are researching a situation where there is ambiguity between what we think is in the GPSr and what is in the GPSr then downloading the data could be instructive.

 

We have already proven that the GPSr's behaviour towards the route is anomalous.

[roybassist]

Yes, I know about that trick and have done it. You would think that it would work, but on my machine it does not. The route often just ignores the waypoints. Normally, when I have an exact route I want to take, I put a waypoint at every intersection.

 

It just does not work on my GPSR for some reason.

I just thought of one thing that could cause the behavior you describe: if you load a route, then delete the route waypoints from the unit, the route will remain on the unit provided there is at least one point remaining in the route (it can be a map via). If you then reload the waypoints that you deleted without reloading the route, the waypoints that were deleted and reloaded will not be reassociated with the route. It seems unlikely that you would have done this, but I thought I would mention it anyway.

[roybassist]

I also would like to why calculation done by Mapsource is different than calculation done by the GPS unit itself?

1) There are a number of options in MapSource and on the unit that affect route calculation (for example, faster route/shorter distance and avoidances), and they may be set differently.

 

2) Not all of the settings available in MapSource have an exact counterpart on the unit (for example, preference for highways is a slider in MapSource), so it isn’t possible to set them exactly the same.

 

4) MapSource, running on a computer, has a lot more processor power available to it than the firmware running on the unit. Garmin probably did some things to the routing algorithm on the unit compared to the one on the computer, to make it work faster. For example, the 60/76 series have settings to trade off between better route or faster calculation which obviously will affect the results. These don’t exist in MapSource.

[+gahboo]

If you’re absolutely sure that the route being transferred to the unit contains those waypoints, then something is seriously wrong. I have a 76CSx, and it faithfully honors true waypoints. I think I recall very rare occasions where my old 76CS didn’t honor map vias, but I haven’t seen that since upgrading to the 76CSx. (Map vias = via points created in a route by dragging and dropping the route in MapSource.)

 

 

Ah, this is a good point. What I was calling waypoints are in fact map vias created with the route tool in MapSource. One thing I did do since posting this question is reset the GPSr, upgrade the firmware, and upgrade the MapSource Version. I also made sure the basemap was enabled based on some other threads I had seen, and I left WAAS in the default off position, as opposed to on like I had it before.

 

Now, when I load a route, it does in fact calculate routes according to the vias. Mind you, the vias were always transferred in the past. Just they were often ignored.

 

In the past, half the time, it would not do that reliably. I need to take it out and see if I can replicate the behavior now.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Yes, you have to use actual Waypoints. Via points will in fact be ignored except on the Zumo.

[roybassist]

Yes, you have to use actual Waypoints. Via points will in fact be ignored except on the Zumo.

To be absolutely foolproof, you have to use actual waypoints; but on the 60/76 series it doesn’t ignore map vias completely. I’ve been very successful at using map vias to force routes to go where I want them to go. The routes calculated on my 76CSx after adding the map vias normally change from the previous route without the vias, and go where I intended. Once in a very rare while, the unit may calculate a route that bypasses a map via; but most of the time (like 99.9%) it honors them.

 

The times I remember the route bypassing a map via, the via was on a road that the unit thought was low-speed, there was a road nearby that the unit thought was high-speed, and I when I navigated the route I asked for faster time. Changing the routing preference to shorter distance usually solved that.

 

For this and other reasons, I always recommend that people using routes on other than dedicated automotive units check the route by simulating navigation of the route on the unit before using it on the road.

Edited August 12, 2008 by roybassist

[Neo_Geo]

I also would like to why calculation done by Mapsource is different than calculation done by the GPS unit itself?

1) There are a number of options in MapSource and on the unit that affect route calculation (for example, faster route/shorter distance and avoidances), and they may be set differently.

 

2) Not all of the settings available in MapSource have an exact counterpart on the unit (for example, preference for highways is a slider in MapSource), so it isn’t possible to set them exactly the same.

 

4) MapSource, running on a computer, has a lot more processor power available to it than the firmware running on the unit. Garmin probably did some things to the routing algorithm on the unit compared to the one on the computer, to make it work faster. For example, the 60/76 series have settings to trade off between better route or faster calculation which obviously will affect the results. These don’t exist in MapSource.

I think roybassist touched on the root of the problem. Check your avoidance preferences on the unit! I've often gotten flaky routing results because I had previously set an avoidance on a previous trip. I wanted to take the "scenic route" through the mountains one time and set my GPSr to avoid highways. After the trip, I forgot to reset that preference. Then I found myself in Newark, NJ with my family one night and wanted to G.T.F. outta there quickly! After a while, I noticed the thing was taking me "the long way" through the city, and I knew I should'a been on the highway by now. I pulled over and checked the textual routing page and noticed one of the upcoming roads was "CR-9" (or something to that effect). I associate "CR" as being a "country road", so I was like "WTF?" Then I remembered to check the avoidances, and avoid "Highways" AND "Toll Roads" were checked...

 

After unchecking those settings, I was on I-78 West in no time!

[Point Blank]

Aughh,

 

Thought I had a work around, but it fails if the road has a gentle curve in it.

 

Oops....

Edited August 12, 2008 by Point Blank

[+gahboo]

PROBLEM SOLVED! I know what happened now... This is going to sound like I am a dummy...

 

I have the 60CSx mounted on a motorcycle with a hard wired power adapter tied into the battery. It fared well using the original route that was filled with via points that originally gave me trouble. I intentionally missed a few turns and it correctly rerouted me through the pre-existing via points like I wanted it to do.

 

Then, I noticed the unit went. The adapter cable had vibrated loose and the unit was set up to power off, which it did. When I plugged it back in and turned the power back on, all the old bad stuff began happening again. The GPSr asked me to recalculate. I recalced, and it ignored all the via points. What??? I putz around with the thing a few minutes and notice that though the via points are in the unit, but are being ignored. I do notice that the "Resume Navigation" menu option was available. I pressed "Resume Navigation", then the machine recalculated the route and properly observed the via points!

 

I remember the adapter becoming unplugged during the last ride as well. So, all along, the thing was working fine. It is just that when the unit powers down after losing external power source, it "Stops Navigayion". When you restart, it does not restart Navigation. You have to do so manually.

 

Now, I redid the settings to run on batteries when the external power is removed. This way, a pop up alerting you to the fact that the adapter came unplugged is presented, but the Navigation is not Stopped.

 

Problem solved...

 

Gahboo