New cacher in Maryland needs placement questions answered

[+bigdogsrule]

3 questions:

1.There is a local garden center near me that is just as much a park as a commercial

establishment. The owner has created a childs garden complete with tower and

maze, has 1700s log cabins on site in use as buildings to house plants and items

for sale - the place is incredible and historic. (rambling gardens, fish, old spring house from early 1700s, etc)There is plenty of parking and while a cache placed there would be in a commercial establishment, it would not require going indoors nor purchasing anything. It is simply a wonderful place to

put a cache (assuming I get permission!). Would the fact that this place is a

gardening business mean it can't have a cache?Any cacher interested in gardening should know about this place. I go there just to walk around it is so lovely.

2.There is a wonderful overlook on Interstate 270 near Frederick MD where a cache would

be perfect. Do you have to get permission to place a cache at an interstate

overlook?

3.I assume from the fact that there are caches there that they are ok on the Appalachian Trail in non national park areas? Do you have to get permission to place these from somewhere and if so, where> I understand that caches are not allowed on National Park areas but lots of the App Tr is not natl pk.

 

Thanks so much for any help!

Frances

[+Isonzo Karst]

1) a cache in the outside area of a gardening shop would be okay, as long as there's no requirement to enter a building or interact with employees, and the cache listing itself doesn't advertise or promote the establishment.

 

2) Probably fine

 

3) AT - complicated, lots and lots of different managers along the trail.

The AT council is not very receptive of caching, but they aren't necessarily the managing agency on any given piece. By FAR the best way to handle that is to actually have a set of coords, and email the reviewer for that particular state. Because the AT council is rather anti-caching, I'd tend to assume that permission for a cache on the trail, even in an area that's otherwise open to caching, may not be possible. But I'd get with the local reviewer on that.

 

the reviewer for Maryland is Quiggle

Edited August 8, 2008 by Isonzo Karst

[+SharpShin']

You may want to check out the Maryland Geocaching Society Forums and join the MGS while you are there.

 

You will find a great group of Maryland cachers there, who are more than willing to assist a new geocacher.

 

The MGS is a very active geocaching organization, with Meet & Greet Events scheduled regularly, along with other geocaching activities where everyone is welcome.

[+Lasagna]

I'll address #3 as we've had quite a bit of experience up here with cache placements on the AT. Simply put ... caches on or within the NPS corridor for the AT are not permitted -- these are considered NPS managed lands (with right of way granted by the land owners) and are subject to NPS rules. As stated elsewhere -- NPS managed lands are off-limits.

 

Where it gets hairy is the fact that you need to understand the nature of the ownership of the land over which the AT runs in a given area. The NPS has purchased numerous parcels of land (I believe from my last conversation with the AT HQ that there are only a handful if any spots left where the AT runs across privately held land -- the rest being public lands, owned by a state or state agency or held by the NPS itself).

 

Where the land is owned by the NPS, no caches can be placed anywhere on the land they own -- which may extend well beyond the corridor for the AT. I've seen the land maps at the AT office and each and every section of the trail is marked for how the rights of way have been obtain and who owns the lands (and how much) around the corridor. You might be surprised how much of it is NPS owned beyond the corridor.

 

Where the land is owned by another agency, no cache can be placed within the corridor (typically a few hundred feet -- although it varies -- and if you know where to look, you can find the boundary markers for the corridor. Outside of that, the NPS has no jurisdiction and you are technically subject to the rules of the land manager at that point.

 

However, be aware that if the principle access path to the cache is via the AT and it causes an a side-trail to form -- there is a chance the AT folks will contact the land owner requesting removal or usually, they report it to GC as infringing and rather than argue with them, it's been my experience that the reviewer will archive it and leave it to the cache owner to prove they otherwise have approval for the placement.

 

With that said -- that's our experience here in PA -- where unfortunately it seems we garner extra scrutiny because the person who is chasing after such infringements happens to be located and seems to have a personal vendetta out for cachers (because -- you know -- we like cause so many problems with a cache that maybe two or three people visit per year unlike the many partying teenagers who sometimes visit these trails and leave behind piles of trash and beer cans that they should be focusing on dealing with -- ok, putting my soapbox away). Simply put, it's unfortunate that the NPS folks in this area are misguided in prioritizing their efforts at policy enforcement and equally unfortunate that the NPS itself has failed to embrace geocaching as a compatible and worthwhile use for "my" (yes they're my taxes, so it's my park NPS -- you hear me?) parks and trails. Your mileage may vary.

 

My advice to others has been -- insure you're not on NPS owned/managed land (i.e. clearly in a state park or forest), make sure there is an approach that either doesn't involve the AT or which uses a marked side-trail until you are outside the trail corridor, and be sure to reference the corridor boundary relative to your placement and instruct cachers to use the approved side-trail rather than bushwhack. Further if you have owner permission specifically (or better still, a permit such as the PA DCNR issues for placements in our state parks here in PA) make sure you state that. Jurisdiction is everything.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Lasagna

[+briansnat]

1.There is a local garden center near me that is just as much a park as a commercial

establishment.

 

It should be fine as long as there is no mention of the business and/or your page doesn't read like an ad. You can mention that it's there with the permission of the owner.

 

2.There is a wonderful overlook on Interstate 270 near Frederick MD where a cache would

be perfect. Do you have to get permission to place a cache at an interstate

overlook?

 

I think I know the overlook you are referring to and if I recall correctly, there are no caches there for a reason. I recall stopping there several times and was surprised there was no cache there. I thought about placing one myself and found out I couldn't. I forget the exact reason, but I think it was managed by the National Park Service or something.

 

3.I assume from the fact that there are caches there that they are ok on the Appalachian Trail in non national park areas? Do you have to get permission to place these from somewhere and if so, where> I understand that caches are not allowed on National Park areas but lots of the App Tr is not natl pk.

 

There is a gray area here. The AT is managed by the NPS, who has in turned turned over management to the Appalachian Trail Conference. The NPS says its up to the ATC. Some people in the ATC say it's OK, some say it isn't, some say it's the NPS's call. So for now reviewers probably won't publish a cache in the AT corridor unless you can prove you have permission from someone in authority.

 

 

Moving to the Mid Atlantic forum where this belongs

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

Most of the others gave better answers than I could, so just a couple of comments:

 

1) There are caches at businesses, near us a neat cache was placed at the local Harley dealership by its owner. Lots of neat swag related to the place, but not required to go in, interact with staff, etc. so OK.

 

2) There is probably a reason you can't place it at that scenic overlook. Lots of Interstate scenic overlooks have caches, there's one on I-80 East in northwest NJ that we found recently.