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Delorme PN-40


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Since my brief and disappointing experience with the Colorado I have been waiting to see if Garmin comes out with an improvement model. From reading the posts here it seems the Oregon is a giant step sideways at best. Accuracy being the number one problem for me.

 

With its 32 channel receiver the PN-40 looks like a very promising unit. The press release reports don't mention anything about the ability to import geocaching files. Has anyone heard anything in that area for the unit?

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Since it's not released yet, there's not a lot of detailed information available. Chip, from Delorme (who pops in on this forum) has mentioned in the Delorme user forum this:

 

The PN-40 will send and receive waypoints, tracks, routes, and maps through Topo USA, the way that the PN-20 does. Topo allows you to import .gpx and .loc files, view them on the map, and then exchange them with a GPS device.

 

I run my pocket query gpx file through GSAK to get the data the way I like it, then export a gpx file to Topo7, and from there shoot it to my PN-20. The PN-20 allows for 800 characters in the comment, which allows for all but the largest descriptions to be carried on the GPS. Because not all of the long descriptions make it in, I still carry CacheMate on my PDA in my backpack for reference. I know that Chip geocaches, and he's seen firsthand the effect of truncated data. So Delorme is thinking about how best to remove that 800 character limitation.

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We're releasing a service pack for Topo USA to go along with the Earthmate PN-40... we made improvements to our .gpx import process based on feedback from geocachers...

 

There are details here... http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=15275

 

And some screen shots here...

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

 

screencap-2008-07-23--23-46-57_306_300.gif

 

screencap-2008-07-23--23-46-04_668_181.gif

 

screencap-2008-07-23--23-46-11_317_184.gif

 

This thing looks like it has real promise. I will be happy to see a unit that is both accurate and provides paperless geocaching. I feel sorry for Garmin. The Colorado and Oregon are such duds. They used to produce some fine units....

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Nice to see GPSr manufactures in the forum answering questions. What a novel idea! It shows that they are watching. Delorme might be lacking in a few areas (no Canadian maps killing it for me) but with the PN-40, this unlimited subscription thing and promising GC support these guys are making up ground fast.

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This looks to be a really slick unit. I really doubt anybody who honestly thinks the Oregon/Colorado are "duds" will be truly happy with ANY product, though.

 

I'm one of those who thinks the Oregon and Colorado are duds and I was very happy with the following Garmin products that I have owned or still own:

 

60c

60scx

Etrex - B/W White version with serial port (not USB)

Legend

Nuvi 350

Nuvi 760 (still own)

Forerunner 305

Forerunner 105 (?) - may have name wrong

Forerunner 50 (still own)

Edge 305 (still own)

Rino 120 - 2

Edited by schmidtbaby
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Is there any plan to release Canadian Maps?

 

I'm using an Explorist 400 right now, paired with my Palm, but have been watching the Oregon discussions closely. As of right now I'm thinking it's my best option to upgrade, but if there was some hope of Canadian maps in the near future I might start looking at the PN-40 a little closer....

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Is there any plan to release Canadian Maps?

 

I'm using an Explorist 400 right now, paired with my Palm, but have been watching the Oregon discussions closely. As of right now I'm thinking it's my best option to upgrade, but if there was some hope of Canadian maps in the near future I might start looking at the PN-40 a little closer....

 

There's some buzz in the building about Canadian topographic data... nothing I can be too specific about, but the company is taking notice of all the interest expressed on our forum and on forums like this. Thanks for asking, it helps make the case for the project!

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

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What are the big things (duds) about the Colorado and/or Oregon that drives considering the Delorme PN-40? What are the significant things that the PN-40 is doing right that the Colorado fails at?

 

Does Delorme field beta test their GPSr hardware and software extensively--something that Garmin apparently doesn't do at all?

Edited by Ratsneve
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What are the big things (duds) about the Colorado and/or Oregon that drives considering the Delorme PN-40? What are the significant things that the PN-40 is doing right that the Colorado fails at?

Maps, maps, maps. You have the best mapping with DeLorme. What I have on my PN-20 is fantastic. Some of the color aerial imagery is very nice to look at not to mention the Topo maps. I could just imagine using the PN-40 to see the same maps but at at a faster speed.

 

I am not indicating that Garmin has bad maps, just that DeLorme is soo much better.

Edited by benjamin921
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What are the big things (duds) about the Colorado and/or Oregon that drives considering the Delorme PN-40? What are the significant things that the PN-40 is doing right that the Colorado fails at?

Maps, maps, maps. You have the best mapping with DeLorme. What I have on my PN-20 is fantastic. Some of the color aerial imagery is very nice to look at not to mention the Topo maps. I could just imagine using the PN-40 to see the same maps but at at a faster speed.

 

I am not indicating that Garmin has bad maps, just that DeLorme is soo much better.

But it can't be just maps alone as important as they are. You have receiver/antenna sensitivity, accuracy, and a whole slew of mapping features, plus paperless geocaching and geocaching features. Does the PN-40 use a 2 or 3-axis electronic compass? Is the compass stable regardless of voltage input or do you have to recalibrate it often or at least when you change batteries? What about the position indicator? Does it wander off 100 or more feet at times and continue that error until turned off or reset? Is the color screen equal to the size and resolution of the Colorado? Are various map screens easier to see in different lighting conditions with 2.4 V battery then the CO? Does the backlighting make a huge difference when boosted to 5 V with an adapter like it does for the CO? What about battery life? Does it have one or two MicroSD slots? :( And how much free memory to add maps from DVD PC sources? Does it adverstise features that have never worked. Where is Delorme's tech support--in the U.S. or offshore? Does it take a half hour wait before you speak to anyone? Is map activation straight forward or another different nightmare? Does the PN-40 show accurate outside air temp? Does it have a barometer and by any chance can it record barometic pressure changes when the unit is turned off? Is it a touch screen or not and how do you do text entries--with an alphanumeric wheel or a joystick you move across a keyboard-like screen? I assume it is waterproof--really? Can you pretty much hold and operate it with one hand?

Edited by Ratsneve
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But it can't be just maps alone as important as they are. True

 

You have receiver/antenna sensitivity, accuracy, and a whole slew of mapping features, plus paperless geocaching and geocaching features. Wit the PN-20 you get 800 characters to work with. Not sure if there has been any changes with the PN-40

 

Does the PN-40 use a 2 or 3-axis electronic compass? Advertised 3-axis

Is the compass stable regardless of voltage input or do you have to recalibrate it often or at least when you change batteries? PN-40 is not out yet so don't know

 

What about the position indicator? PN-40 is not out yet so don't know

 

Does it wander off 100 or more feet at times and continue that error until turned off or reset?

My PN-20 has wandered before but really never that much. If the 40 has a new super high sensitivity receiver I would imagine that it would be pretty good about not going far at all.

 

Is the color screen equal to the size and resolution of the Colorado?

I have not seen the specs on the Garmin (easy lookup though) but the maps are so good that it must be better :D

 

Are various map screens easier to see in different lighting conditions with 2.4 V battery then the CO?

When the sun light hits the screen, it is super easy to see. Low light conditions are not very bad at all. If not a little back light helps

 

Does the backlighting make a huge difference when boosted to 5 V with an adapter like it does for the CO?

Please elaborate

 

What about battery life? With my 20, I can get about 10-12 hours on a fresh set of 2500 Nickel Metals' while using the tracking feature, pushing buttons all the time and some back lighting if needed so I would imagine that the 40 would be comparable

 

Does it have one or two MicroSD slots? ;)Just uno :(

 

And how much free memory to add maps from DVD PC sources? Advertised 500mb of internal storage and with the 20, they made it so you can use what ever size gig card. I am currently using a 4gig (can't wait to get my hands on a 16gig :)

 

Does it adverstise features that have never worked. PN-40 is not out yet so don't know

 

Where is Delorme's tech support--in the U.S. or offshore? Good ole USA. Probably the best customer support anywhere!!

 

Does it take a half hour wait before you speak to anyone? I never had to call but I have not read any reports of this happening

 

Is map activation straight forward or another different nightmare? There is a learning curve but is not too hard. There is just so much that can be done with the mapping, it can be a bit overwhelming for a n00b. There is great help over at the DeLorme Boards

 

Does the PN-40 show accurate outside air temp? I wish that the 20 indicated outside temp but have not seen anything advertised about that with the 40. Would be nice though.

 

Does it have a barometer and by any chance can it record barometic pressure changes when the unit is turned off? Yes and don't know.

 

Is it a touch screen or not and how do you do text entries--with an alphanumeric wheel or a joystick you move across a keyboard-like screen? No thankfully.

 

I assume it is waterproof--really? My 20 is. It has been through some pretty good downpours and the sink to test it :D. It even floats with the lithium batteries

 

Can you pretty much hold and operate it with one hand? Absolutely.

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Jeez, Ratsneve, you're a regular ask-it basket! :( [i previewed my response before posting and discovered that Benjamin responded already. I'll go ahead and put my response up, too, because (1) I worked *so* hard on it and (2) here and there I think I have some information that supplements his answers.]

 

All good questions, though. Some of them aren't answerable until the PN-40 comes out in (knock on wood) September. However, FWIW I can tackle many of them now based on what I know of the PN-20 and the press release of the PN-40.

 

The PN-40 has a 3-axis compass.

 

Position error on the PN-20 would occur due to the fluctuations of position estimate within the estimated error (e.g., within a 10 or 15 foot radius circle) but nothing on the order of 100 feet. The PN-40 looks to have a more sensitive chip, so I anticipate improvement over the PN-20.

 

The PN-20 and the PN-40 look to have the same form factor. The screen in the PN-20 is much smaller than the Colorado--closer to the eTrex line--but the resolution and the ability to view in sunlight are great.

 

Battery life in the PN-40 remains to be seen.

 

One SD slot in the PN-20; I expect the same for the PN-40. Both support SDHC cards; they should go up to 32 or 64 MB, however big they'll make 'em.

 

Advertising features that don't work...well, I hope not. I'll be extremely surprised if that's the case, as they seem to take pains to deliver. I think they delivered on everything on the PN-20...some people expected more from the street routing engine than the PN-20 was able to deliver, and we're still waiting for a firmware upgrade to deliver auto trail routing on the GPS (currently you have to create the route on desktop software and transfer to the PN-20 for activation). I can't remember for sure if they advertised that or not. They've been cranking out firmware upgrades with many feature improvements every 3 or 4 months since the PN-20 release, so I fully expect to see it before long.

 

AFAIK tech support is in Maine...coastal, but not offshore. I've only had to call once, and I got someone immediately who did all I could ask for and more (I had a bad Li-Ion battery; they sent me a whole new travel pack).

 

There is no map activation, you just have to plug in your PN-20 (and, I presume, PN-40) and the Topo7 software accepts it. You can have multiple PNs running off a single Topo7 installation.

 

There's no mention of a temperature sensor in the PN-40 press release. It does have a barometric altimeter, according to the press release.

 

The PN-20 used a joystick text entry approach, although the mechanism is actually a 4-way rocker button. It's *really* waterproof--one of the better designs I've seen. One-handed operation is pretty easy...though for text entry, two hands is a little easier.

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I know it looks like I got carried away with all the questions but there is method to my madness--whether anyone appreciates it or not.

 

I've noticed the Delorme presence here and a number of Colorado owners, including myself are wondering if its time to make a change. We are upset and frustrated with so many Garmin/Colorado/Oregon factors. Every one of my questions above represents discussions around problems, things that didn't work right or didn't work at all and some still don't to this day, and really poor technical support training imo. There is one person who has replaced his Colorado through Garmin six times and on the last attempt he still doesn't have barometric pressure recording when the unit is turned Off.

 

I just want Delorme to know. If I were CEO of Garmin I would pull Colorado and Oregon GPSrs and offer every Colorado and Oregon owner a full refund; but also ask each of them to continue field beta testing these models for free. And there would be some major design option changes made before the units went back on the market. On the other hand if you really think I think that's going to happen then expect to see pigs flying any day. More likely, just like so much computer software, their bean counters forced the products premature release because Garmin is failing. There must be a number of good software and hardware engineers at Garmin that hate their jobs right now.

Edited by Ratsneve
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A little more, if I may. The four way rocker navigates around the "keyboard" to enter alphanumerics.

 

For Premium Members, caching is 90% paperless with the PN-20 now; 100% paperless has been strongly suggested to them and my guess they'll have it for both when the PN-40 is introduced.

 

I called tech support several times and immediately got someone whose first language was English. I was not advised to push 2 for Spanish.

 

Regarding battery depletion or run time: Yes, we all want the max. But I see it as like buying a 4WD for my back country camping trips. I want 40mpg and all the other goodies and do not want to follow motor homes up the mountain passes. So the gas mileage is what it is.

 

And now, a word about the maps.........

yeah, color aerial maps that'll knock your socks off and you can toggle OFF and ON "Hybrid Maps" which will superimpose the contours, or lines of constant elevation, over aerial photo imagery.

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All valid questions. Nothing is ever going to bee 100% perfect but so far the DeLorme team has given it the ole college try, they really do. They actually listen to their customer base and make changes to try and please the masses.

 

When the PN-20 came out (mind you, this was their 1st handheld displayed devise) it was not perfect but came out with an update in the first few days to fix it. The PN-20 has been out since Jan 2007 and has had 5 updates (most of them for feature changes and slight bug fixes but mostly changes that the customers want or to enhance the current ones).

 

The PN-20 is a serious outdoor GPSr (it does road routing but it is not the strong point). If you want road routing, get a dedicated unit. The one issue with the PN-20 is that it is not as fast as some of the newer Garmins out there but for the out doors it does great (mnt biking, hiking, etc.). The screen re-draw time is ~ 2-5 seconds depending on what maps you have selected to view at one time. I just rode my bicycle 22 miles today and really didn't notice any long screen redraw time - 1-2 seconds.

 

Looking at the chip set for the PN-40 - it looks very promising. I think that it is the same chio set in some of the Nuvi series and those are fast.

 

For the price that you pay for the PN-xx, it comes with the mapping DVD plus pre-cut maps of the USA to save YOU time in "cutting" and loading large maps. In addition, PN owners can get DeLorme's XMap, $99, to bring in aerial imagery (free data from your state GIS site). Being able to put these on the PN is way cool (here are some screen shots).

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For the other 200-odd countries in the world it looks like the major advantage is being able to load one's own calibrated images. Thats got my interest.

forget it . . .

Delorme is ConUS only

Other countries/continents have different solutions which fits their needs better.

 

Regards - Anton

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Oh no! I thought that with Xmap you could load any calibrated raster files.

That is true...I think Anton is just saying that there will be more off-the-shelf solutions that many people outside Delorme's coverage would prefer. But you are right that XMap can register raster images and send them to the PN-series for use. The only constriction would be the format of the image (I counted about 18 different acceptable formats for import).

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I know it looks like I got carried away with all the questions but there is method to my madness--whether anyone appreciates it or not.

 

I actually do appreciate your questions...I hope you know I was just ribbing you a little about the number of them. As a PN-20 owner, I'm interested in how the competing Garmin products are working out, but not sufficiently interested as to keep up with the huge volume of correspondence in this forum. So I appreciate your summary of the Colorado and Oregon issues (and only now consider that maybe you intended your questions to be more rhetorical than literal).

 

There seemed to be a general feeling when the early Colorado problems surfaced that Garmin would fix them quickly with firmware updates; apparently they haven't do so to everyone's satisfaction. There seem to be some people who really like their Colorados and Oregons despite the flaws, but I gather from your post that patience is running out for others.

 

I don't think the perfect GPS has been manufactured yet, or is reasonably expected in the near future. But here's what I think Delorme has going for them:

 

1) They're small enough to stay focused on their product line. They've got a handful of GPS products instead of a truckful.

 

2) Delorme is primarily a map company, a GPS company second. I think that's a lot more doable than a GPS company trying to move into the map business (which is why Garmin and Magellan have had to go to outside vendors for their maps).

 

3) I don't know how much I could say about Delorme's attention to customer relations. I've mentioned before that I as a former Magellan owner I might reasonable be accused of kicked-dog syndrome (suggestions or other communication with the company was rarely, if ever, acknowledged). Through Delorme's participation here and especially on the Delorme Users Forum (where many Delorme staff members will drop in now and then), I really feel like I have something approaching personal relations with them--at the least, there's a tangible communications channel. They are responsive and appreciative of suggestions. They do many of the GPS activities we do--like geocaching, kayaking, and hiking--and share their experiences with us. I really have the feel of collaborating on product development, that we as users have a say in firmware and hardware changes. They don't do everything we want, and there are some features that I thought important have not yet been implemented. But they let me know my comments are heard, and they try to give a context for why things are done in the order that they are.

 

4) They have a generous 30 day trial period with a no-questions-asked return policy. There were a number of people who tried the PN-20 out, found there was some aspect of it they couldn't live with, and sent it back. They were out the $8 (or whatever) return shipping charge, but that seems to me a more than reasonable cost to try it out for a couple weeks so you can see for yourself.

 

So when the PN-40 comes out, I'm confident it will merit your consideration. Its pros and cons may not mesh with your particular needs. But for anyone placing a high priority on map quality, I think the PN-40 will be the prime contender.

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While I agree it is best to use a dedicated car navigation unit for on-road navigation, I find it useful to use my handheld when I am navigating to a trailhead and would need to leave my Streetpilot in the vehicle while I am miles and hours away. I have seen several comments advising that the PN-20 isn't the best for road navigation and I wonder if one of you would care to expand on that a little. Is it the maps? The software?

The PN-40 really looks interesting, otherwise, and I have never owned anything except Garmin.

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This is my soapbox; I'll take the stand.

 

I think the PN-20 is fine for routing of the type one does while geocaching. If you're creating a street route in a rural area or a fairly short route in an urban area (e.g., under 10 miles), it's quite acceptable. Although I have dedicated automobile GPS devices, I'll do street routing while on the PN-20 while geocaching without complaint.

 

Long, multi-state routes or longer routes in heavy urban areas can take unreasonably long times to compute (10, 20 minutes or even never complete). The Los Angeles area was one urban region that seemed to be especially problematic.

 

So in those especially challenging situation, one can usually work around the limitation by creating the route on the desktop and transferring the route to the GPS for activation. Most of us would see that as inconvenient or worse. And if the PN-20 has to recalculate the route on its own along the way, you might be up the creek. The small size of the PN-20 screen is a lesser concern, but those without sharp eyesight may find it hard to work with while driving. Lastly, the address find feature on the PN-20 is clunky compared to the Garmin interfaces I'm used to (Quest and C340).

 

I don't fault the PN-20 that much; to do what it does so well it compromises on other things--autorouting being one. It's great for outdoor activity use, but so-so for autorouting. With great autorouters getting as cheap as they are (I saw a refurb Garmin c550 for sale at $99 this week), I think the best solution is to have a dedicated GPS for the specific need. But for those who can only have one, careful thought should be given to individual priorities. Street routing is a *very* useful function, and if it's a high priority something other than the PN-20 is probably preferable.

 

For what you described--occasional street routing to a trailhead--I think the PN-20 or PN-40 would be quite satisfactory.

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Wow Delorme, You have my head turning and Garmin's too I am betting. Talking to your customers and potential customers in the forums is nothing short of awesome. For those of us who have been getting no information from Garmin this is so refreshing that I can't even put it into words. This is the competition we have been looking for solid improvements to a GPSr. The only question I have is to ask you about street navigation? I had read that this was the only drawback in the PN20. Have there been improvements for the PN40 in this regard? Looking forward to seeing your response.

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CC,

 

I have a PN-20, and yes its street navigation cannot compare to the factory installed GPS/NAV system in the dashboard of my Jeep with a 3" x 5" screen.

 

OTOH, is that street navigation of the PN-20 a drawback? No, I don't consider it as such as it is a totally different system than is that in my Jeep. Is the fact that my Jeep GPSr will only display coordinates after a bunch on monkey motion and then the disappear when motion of vehicle resumes a drawback? No, same rationale.

 

I am very fortunate to have both as asking one to do the tasks for which the other has been designed to do can be very frustrating if one must rely on one or the other for everything.

 

Regarding the capability of the forthcoming PN-40, DeLorme is talking of a much faster processor which I accept will be the case as they have establidhed their marketing credibilty with me. I don't know this as a fact, of course; however, I do expect those moving up from their PN-20s to be very pleasantly surprised.

 

And, then there are the DeLorme maps.....................

Edited by Team CowboyPapa
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There have already been lots of great replies from PN-20 owners but I thought I'd toss in some behind the scenes info from DeLorme...

 

We're about five weeks into our Earthmate PN-40 beta test. We've involved a group of very enthusiastic testers from around the country and have gone through several beta updates as we work toward our fall release date. Our testing team is made up of people from all the different GPS market segments we're pursuing... a good percentage of those testers are geocachers, as are many members of our development team. Our testing team is under NDA and can't speak openly about the device until after it releases... but I can tell you that they've all been very excited about the new device and I'm sure they'll be sharing their experience as soon as the PN-40 ships and we give them the green light.

 

In the meantime, here are my answers...

 

We're using a new Cartesio chipset from ST Micro, we're seeing great results with the beta and our dev team still has some final adjustments to pull in a few extra dB of gain. I heard from a developer that was wrapping his device in tinfoil because he couldn't get the signal to drop enough to test some of our interface notifications for poor reception.

 

There's a video link a little further up on this page... take note of the sea-sick reference and my disclaimer, I'm not a professional film maker... but I have captured video to show smooth scrolling with high resolution color aerial imagery at a very high zoom level while traveling at highway speeds. This is the best I can think of to prove the performance improvements with the Earthmate PN-40.

 

We're definitely listening to the requests for a full paperless caching solution. We've increased our comment field character limit to 800 with the PN-20/40 and reordered the way we import cache details from .gpx files. We've got our sites set on removing that character limit although I'll be honest and say it's looking like a firmware update following release.

 

We haven't created a separate management system for geocaches on our device... instead we list geocaches and additional waypoints together and give them all the same controls. We have a Waypoint list that can be sorted alphabetically or by distance, as well as a Find page that can be modified to only show the geocaches nearest you that haven't been found yet.

 

The 3-axis electronic compass does need to be calibrated when the batteries are changed. I spoke with our engineers after reading your post and they recommended recalibrating for any electronic compass device. The magnetic field created by a battery is not the same from one to the next, even when they come from the same package. While testing has shown that you won't need to recalibrate as the batteries lose power, we are recommending that you recalibrate after swapping old for new. The process is straight forward and the benefits of the 3-axis compass are well worth it... I've been having great results with my geocache testing.

 

We aren't experiencing any wandering or offset errors... not sure if that's in reference to experience with the PN-20 or with a different device. We know how critical geocachers are of GPS Accuracy readings, random wandering, and acquisition times... we don't want anyone to post a "could not find" because their device wasn't accurate.

 

The PN-40 has new sensors and a more powerful processor... these things impact battery life. We're working hard in this area and still plan to maintain the specs people are familiar with on the PN-20. I think this is around 8-10 with standard alkaline but could be stretched with Power-Saving mode.

 

The screen is great... very readable in direct sunlight, backlight works well for lower light conditions. I run the backlight at full when I'm driving and can charge but otherwise keep it at half power to save on batteries.

 

We don't advertise features that don't work... in fact; we've worked hard to maintain open communication with our users through the forum.delorme.com site as well as through the blog.delorme.com site. We're also in the gc.com forum sharing as much as we can. Our sales, customer service, and support groups are working hard to meet all the needs of people that contact DeLorme. It's an easy decision for us as a company when you look at how well received quality service is by everyone these days. It just comes down to a strong desire to make people happy. Just look at this site to see how far word of mouth can go in the age of forums, blogs, and on-line reviews.

 

The form factor for the new device is the same as the Earthmate PN-20. I was throwing mine around in the ocean last week while testing NOAA charts and have a white water kayaking/rafting trip planned on the Kennebec in Maine for the 23rd and 24th of this month if anyone wants to go for a paddle and see the device in action. I only use my device with one hand... we designed it that way because we're usually holding onto something else with the other hand... kayak paddles, bike handlebars, walking sticks, shotguns, you name it...

 

Wow! I guess I got a little carried away there... you did ask a lot of questions though... Check out our forum for more info as well as our blog. I've got more videos planned and can address any other questions that pop up about the new device. We don't have any big secrets to hold back on... just a strong desire to share as much as we can to let people know what we're getting ready to release. So keep the questions coming...

 

Thanks!

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

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This looks to be a really slick unit. I really doubt anybody who honestly thinks the Oregon/Colorado are "duds" will be truly happy with ANY product, though.

 

I disagree the Oregon is a dud. I had it for a full day my wife and I took it for a spin to geocache with it. My old Garmin VistaCX had the same signal performance as the O 400t!

 

Worst of all I couldn't justify spending almost $700.00 on a unit that you have to tilt a certain way to read it cause of a terrible brightness or the lack off. I had my Iphone 3G with me as well a $399.00 device that was 300% brighter! I got so upset that I returned the Oregon.

 

Why cant the manufactures make a device that is great? Why should we have to settle in this day and age? I hope the PN-40 has the same geocaching abilities as the Oregon with a brighter screen and better signal quality :blink:

 

-Rene

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Well I will say its not always the unit itself.

I have a etrex vista,PN-20 and a major cell phone there screens all sucked big time when I had my Polarized glasses. I ended up having to buy 2 pair of glasses 1 to play out side and 1 inside.

This also cured the problem I was having viewing the laptop screen in the truck.

This subject is well talked about with helicopter and fixed wing pilots.

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I've been seriously considering selling my Colorado and moving to the PN-40. My Colorado has served me well for what I use it for, but I'm a gotta have it guy. That is one of the reasons I hate forums, I get all worked up about problems that I would probably never even notice if I didn't read about them here.

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I shall not buy a PN-40 to replace my venerable PN-20. If I did I would be asking for the death penalty from she who is my wife.

 

I do want one though.

 

I just bought my PN-20 a few weeks ago (got the refurb one from tigergps.com, wanted to see if I liked the PN-20 before thinking about the PN-40... I do!). Anyways, told the wife I'm ready to upgrade from the 20 to the 40, and as long as I sell the 20 first, she has no problem with it :rolleyes: She isn't working right now, so i'm going to wait until she at least has a job first, and then i want to see some head-to-head reveiws between the PN-40 and the Oregon, but I like the PN-20 enough that it almost doesn't matter. Biggest question is whether I should get the 40 or the 40se, the 8GB of internal memory sounds pretty sweet, just not sure if the extra speed of that will make it worth the extra $80 over a standard 40 and an 8GB SD card.

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I shall not buy a PN-40 to replace my venerable PN-20. If I did I would be asking for the death penalty from she who is my wife.

 

I do want one though.

 

I just bought my PN-20 a few weeks ago (got the refurb one from tigergps.com, wanted to see if I liked the PN-20 before thinking about the PN-40... I do!). Anyways, told the wife I'm ready to upgrade from the 20 to the 40, and as long as I sell the 20 first, she has no problem with it :rolleyes: She isn't working right now, so i'm going to wait until she at least has a job first, and then i want to see some head-to-head reveiws between the PN-40 and the Oregon, but I like the PN-20 enough that it almost doesn't matter. Biggest question is whether I should get the 40 or the 40se, the 8GB of internal memory sounds pretty sweet, just not sure if the extra speed of that will make it worth the extra $80 over a standard 40 and an 8GB SD card.

If the PN-40se is any consideration at all, I'd advise ordering one straightaway. Somehow I have the impression that will be just that, a Special Edition with a limited production run.

 

Put aside the thought of an 8GB SD card, if you don't want one in addition to a 16GB'r for the se. With the annual subscription of $29.95 for all the imagery that you can download.........

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So the big question I have then is how much faster will the maps and pics load up from the internal memory of the 40se versus the 40 with a big SD card? If you're going to need a big card for either one, anyways, is there really a big advantage to the 40se?

 

Edit: Just watched the videos of the PN-40 in action, I'm in love. Looks like it does everything I like about PN-20, but all the slowness problems are solved. Just gotta figure out which one to get now! Oh, and sell my PN-20, of course!

Edited by HondaH8er
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So the big question I have then is how much faster will the maps and pics load up from the internal memory of the 40se versus the 40 with a big SD card? If you're going to need a big card for either one, anyways, is there really a big advantage to the 40se?

 

Edit: Just watched the videos of the PN-40 in action, I'm in love. Looks like it does everything I like about PN-20, but all the slowness problems are solved. Just gotta figure out which one to get now! Oh, and sell my PN-20, of course!

Is it significant? Maybe not significant. Does it have a cool factor built in that no other GPS has at this moment? You betcha. But I look at it this way, I'm spending money for extra memory one way or another. I may as well have as much onboard as I can afford.

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So I haven't downloaded any aerial stuff for my PN-20, especially since I'm going to sell it (keeping that $100 of free dl's pristine for a selling point!), how much space do they take up? I just got a 4 GB card for my PN-20, and I have enough map coverage on it to allow the unit to autoroute me from the Canuckistanian border above Seattle all the way to Mexico with a stop in Las Vegas for funs, but how much more space would I need for all the aerial stuff for the state of Oregon, say? Or is it pretty memory intensive, and I'd just be looking at doing a couple towns? I know more memory is better, just trying to figure out if the e-wang appeal of the built-in 8GB is worth it, or if the extra money would be better spent on just buying a huge 32GB SD card (about $150 on Amazon.com). Really, for the price difference between the 40 and the 40se, I could buy 3 16GB SDHC cards from Amazon.com, so over all, I'd end up with 6x the memory for the same price. If the speed difference isn't huge for draw/redraw, or the aerial imaging will have to be on a separate SD card anyways, I don't see the need (for me) to get the 40se. Sorry if I come off as bashing the 40se, it is pretty neat, I'm just trying to figure out which PN-40 is the right one for me, and right now, I'm leaning towards the standard one.

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One of the beta testers will be able to tell you the space requirements for the aerials and anything else that you can download, but this is the way I look at it:

 

Yah, I can buy a 32GB card, but with the 40, that makes it 33GB and with the 40SE, that makes it 40GB.

 

I have played memory card swaps before, and even though it is handier than a DVD or CD or even (egads) floppies, it is handier (for me) if I don't have to as much. When I'm the middle of the woods, the last thing I want to do is handle the swap of an itty bitty card.

 

So if you're in a conundrum of whether to save money now and spend it later. Save it. My motto is if I haven't fallen or tripped on the trail, my day isn't complete. For me, the natural klutz of the woods, I spent it so I don't have to juggle. I mean... look at my avatar... my bandana is untied fer cryin' out loud! :rolleyes:

Edited by TotemLake
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I totally get that about the card juggling, I don't plan on buying a bunch of smaller cards, just boneing out for a nice big card. But if the majority of stuff ends up having to be on the SD card anyways, especially the imaging, might as well save the $100. I don't do a lot of hiking or stuff like that, the imaging stuff is just a cool factor for me right now. I guess for me, I don't see the extra $100 for 8GB as being worth it. But that's just me, all I do is geocache locally and/or ride bike paths, no serious hiking or mountain biking.

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Team Delorme - Chip, if you're monitoring this, perhaps this question can be answered by your engineers.

 

With files that get opened on a PC, a temporary file is actually opened... and the swap file is used to hold the changes until you issue a command to save. The the actual file is overwritten with the new changes. The system runs fastest when there is at least douible the space for the swap file's largest size.

 

Does the same thing occur on the GPS? My thinking is the performance improvement is due to more space available to write the temp or swap file on.

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