Subscriber Only Caches

[kiel5435]

Really guys? Is this necessary? In all my experiences of geocaching, I've encountered nothing but amazing people - except when you forget you have a travel bug - and have always had a good time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that having an option for caches to only be available to subscribers seems absurd and for a fellow geocacher to use that option seems even more so. Doesn't this stray away from what geocaching is all about?

[+baloo&bd]

Really guys? Is this necessary? In all my experiences of geocaching, I've encountered nothing but amazing people - except when you forget you have a travel bug - and have always had a good time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that having an option for caches to only be available to subscribers seems absurd and for a fellow geocacher to use that option seems even more so. Doesn't this stray away from what geocaching is all about?

 

Yes to everything you said. Unfortunatly there is one feature, the audit logs, that is not available otherwise. Aside form this, there is really no valid reasons for MOC's.

 

There is a vocal minority that I am sure will jump in and say it protects the cache from muggles (it does not), rewards and or encourages PM (again, no), and other such nonsense.

 

There are many workarounds for non-PM's to log the caches (search function is your friend) that those that run the web site have set up as a compromise that people are encouraged to use.

 

Following this will be a list of excuses for MOC's.

[+ArcherDragoon]

Really guys? Is this necessary? In all my experiences of geocaching, I've encountered nothing but amazing people - except when you forget you have a travel bug - and have always had a good time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that having an option for caches to only be available to subscribers seems absurd and for a fellow geocacher to use that option seems even more so. Doesn't this stray away from what geocaching is all about?

 

Yes to everything you said. Unfortunatly there is one feature, the audit logs, that is not available otherwise. Aside form this, there is really no valid reasons for MOC's.

 

There is a vocal minority that I am sure will jump in and say it protects the cache from muggles (it does not), rewards and or encourages PM (again, no), and other such nonsense.

 

There are many workarounds for non-PM's to log the caches (search function is your friend) that those that run the web site have set up as a compromise that people are encouraged to use.

 

Following this will be a list of excuses for MOC's.

Not really...I think you covered it fairly well!!!

 

I think I have two MOC's...both of which are for the Audit Log as you stated earlier. I just wanted to see who is looking at the cache for a while...later today...at least one of them will be going to "all members"...other then that...really no reason for them (at least that is my opinion)...it would be nice to have audit logs on all caches as a Premium Member instead of only MOC's...maybe someday...maybe...

[+Isonzo Karst]

I have a couple of caches with additional logging requirements that are best met by building a bookmarked list. Members can, non-members can't. They're MOC.

I have a multi cache that has $100+ worth of expense in the stages. I took it off MOC and stages disappeared - it's back on MOC and won't be removed again.

I have a few random caches MOC just 'cause the audit log is entertaining.

[sdarken]

kiel5435, since you don't appear to own any caches you probably can't appreciate the nuances of ownership. I have a MOC because I like to monitor the audit log. My MOC also cost me a lot of money to set up and I am happy to limit the number of people that visit it.

 

Member-only caches definitely seem to help cut down on intentional muggling.

 

Unless your area is particular unusual, the vast majority of caches are not members-only and a non-paying member will miss out on very few caches.

[+trainlove]

I think I have two MOC's...both of which are for the Audit Log as you stated earlier. I just wanted to see who is looking at the cache for a while...later today...at least one of them will be going to "all members"...other then that...really no reason for them (at least that is my opinion)...it would be nice to have audit logs on all caches as a Premium Member instead of only MOC's...maybe someday...maybe...

 

The audit list feature is nice. I wish it were available for all caches. I use a statscounter to see who is clicking on my caches.

 

But with only thinking for about 2 seconds one can think of at least 3 ways that any Premium Member can view any Members Only cache, and NOT appear in the audit list even a single time.

 

One other failure of the Audit List feature is that it CAN ONLY show you Premium Members who have clicked on your cache page since only PM's can view it in the first place.

[+Kit Fox]

Really guys? Is this necessary? In all my experiences of geocaching, I've encountered nothing but amazing people - except when you forget you have a travel bug - and have always had a good time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that having an option for caches to only be available to subscribers seems absurd and for a fellow geocacher to use that option seems even more so. Doesn't this stray away from what geocaching is all about?

 

I think it is absurd that $3.00 is blocking you from having fun, when gas is over $4.00 per gallon . I looked up your most recent find, then checked the nearest 100 geocaches. About 40% of the caches in your area are MO caches. $3.00 and one month is all it would take for you to find all those EVIL, ELITEST caches.

 

Like others have said, come back and chat after you are the owner of some actual geocaches.

 

Be forewarned that this topic always turns into a heated debate. The search function is great for avoiding being Markwelled.

 

Should more caches be made members only?

 

Economics 101

 

Premium Membership Exclusivities

 

Member only caches and why I hate them

 

Caches for premium members only

 

Why have the premium membership?

 

Members only caches

 

Subscription Only Caches--grrrrrrrrrr!

 

Member Only Caches, Should I or shouldn't I?

 

Caches for Premium members only

 

Members only caches

 

"members only" caches rant

 

The First "no Members" Cache

 

Change Moc Suggestion, need only normal account to view

 

Northeast Premium Member Only Caches, What are your thoughts?

 

When To Hide A Premium Member Cache, What is the culture of Member Only cache

 

Members Only Cache Hides, Members Only Cache Hides

 

Members Only, Premium Member Cache

 

And from across the pond

Members Only Caches, Is there a point anymore ?

 

 

baloo&bd

 

With over 50% of your hides being archived, how could you "know" that MOCs don't work?

Edited August 7, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+tozainamboku]

When premium membership was first offered there weren't as many features as we now have. There were no Pocket Queries, caches along a route, instant notifications, bookmark lists, or off-topic forum. Jeremy very much wanted to keep geocaching as a free activity while at the same time offering extras to premium membership to encourage people to help provide the money to run the site. He asked for people to suggest perks for premium members. Several people lobbied for the idea of designating some caches as Premium Members Only. Hiders could designate a cache as PMO as a way to say thank you to others who support the site. Some people will create a cache initially as a PMO cache and remove the restriction after a few weeks. They are rewarding premium members by giving them first crack at finding the cache. Others will keep the cache PMO for the life of the cache. That particular cache owner has decided to hide a cache solely to thank those that support the site.

 

I don't view PMO caches as punishing anyone for not being a premium member. There are plenty of caches for non-premium members to find. Unless you live in some very unusual area, PMO caches are a small fraction of all caches. PMO caches are there for cache owners to say thank you to others for supporting the site.

[+trainlove]

I think it is absurd that $3.00 is blocking you from having fun, when gas is over $4.00 per gallon . I looked up your most recent find, then checked the nearest 100 geocaches. About 40% of the caches in your area are MO caches. $3.00 and one month is all it would take for you to find all those EVIL, ELITEST caches.

 

I thought that the $3 for 1 month option was gone. But even $10 for 3 months is all that's needed to get many many caches that exist and have existed prior to that time into a database. 5 PQs a day of 500 caches for 90 days is a heck of a lot of caches, and a heck of a lot of PMO caches too.

 

P.S. Is there a column or some indication in GSAK that identifies PMO caches?

[+baloo&bd]

baloo&bd

With over 50% of your hides being archived, how could you "know" that MOCs don't work?

 

Simple, they don't. If they did, you would not have such a small percentage of yours marked that way, some of them archived.

 

Wow, you think that a numbers guy like you would have done research before making such foolish comparisons. Had you, you would have found that we moved and as they need maintenance or someone requests the area, I archive them rather than spend the time (1 hour 1 way) and gas money to check on them every time they need checking.

 

Why are such a high percentage of yours archived?

Edited August 7, 2008 by baloo&bd

[+flask]

i don't like MOCs. i simply don't hunt them.

 

as for the question about why anyone would have 40% of their caches archived, i have a number of archived caches.

 

sometimes an old cache just needs to be let go.

 

i have a guardrail cache. it's a very old cache, and at the time a guardrail cache was a novelty. it was kind of a joke. now that they've proliferated into spew, when mine goes missing i'm not replacing it.

[kiel5435]

Wow, didn't realize this was such a heated issue. I must thank tozainamboku for their response as it has shed some light on the issue. I discovered a MOC last night and was confused upon finding it.

 

To address a few things: if you're worried about your cache being ransacked, don't place it in a shopping center parking lot. Further, stache your cache better. I'm fairly new - especially compared to you fine folks - but it's been my understanding that geocaching is supposed to get you and to go to places you may not have normally gone or see things you may not have normally seen. My apologies. [see Devil's Stash GCKQNH]

 

Also, you would be correct in that I have not placed any caches. As mentioned above, I'm waiting to come up with a place that is significant in some way and to encourage people to visit said place.

 

Thanks for all your responses, have the greatest Thursday since the last greatest Thursday.

[Skippermark]

Being a PM, I don't really notice whether a cache is or isn't a MOC until my son (who's not a PM) goes to log them.

 

Generally, I don't like MOCs, but it seems to work work well on travel bug/coin hotels. I'm generally not in favor of those either - that's a different debate - but making them a MOC seems to cut down on people stealing coins and such from them.

[Skippermark]

To address a few things: if you're worried about your cache being ransacked, don't place it in a shopping center parking lot. Further, stache your cache better.

 

Hiding the cache better works great to stop muggles from finding it, but if someone signs up with a regular membership, they have the coords and can go out and take whatever they want. No matter how well you hide it, if they have the coords, they can find the cache.

[+The Jester]

I think it is absurd that $3.00 is blocking you from having fun, when gas is over $4.00 per gallon . I looked up your most recent find, then checked the nearest 100 geocaches. About 40% of the caches in your area are MO caches. $3.00 and one month is all it would take for you to find all those EVIL, ELITEST caches.

 

I thought that the $3 for 1 month option was gone. But even $10 for 3 months is all that's needed to get many many caches that exist and have existed prior to that time into a database. 5 PQs a day of 500 caches for 90 days is a heck of a lot of caches, and a heck of a lot of PMO caches too.

 

P.S. Is there a column or some indication in GSAK that identifies PMO caches?

Nope, the GPX file doesn't include data on whether a cache is PMO, so GSAK can't indicate that. To get a GPX file you have to be PM, which means you can view PMO's, so there was no need to flag such caches.

[+bluiisjim]

Really guys? Is this necessary? In all my experiences of geocaching, I've encountered nothing but amazing people - except when you forget you have a travel bug - and have always had a good time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that having an option for caches to only be available to subscribers seems absurd and for a fellow geocacher to use that option seems even more so. Doesn't this stray away from what geocaching is all about?

 

If I may throw in a new thought. We started caching with 3 other couples. After going on a few cache outings they decided they didn't have the time or interest to do it but we kept going and are just getting to the point where we are considering paid membership. If we had to pay before we tried it we might have missed out on a lot of fun and a lot of nice people. I only own one cache but am looking for the right place for my next.

[+flask]

Really guys? Is this necessary? In all my experiences of geocaching, I've encountered nothing but amazing people - except when you forget you have a travel bug - and have always had a good time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that having an option for caches to only be available to subscribers seems absurd and for a fellow geocacher to use that option seems even more so. Doesn't this stray away from what geocaching is all about?

 

If I may throw in a new thought. We started caching with 3 other couples. After going on a few cache outings they decided they didn't have the time or interest to do it but we kept going and are just getting to the point where we are considering paid membership. If we had to pay before we tried it we might have missed out on a lot of fun and a lot of nice people. I only own one cache but am looking for the right place for my next.

 

..and your point is?

[+PARTYHATSFOREVERYONE]

(insert snooty voice - like Thurston Howell III) I was at the country club yesterday after a day of caching and mentioned to Geoff, Buffy and Skip that we should become Geocaching Preeeeemium Members and set out to find only the highest quality caches. You know, those with caviar and little bottles of champagne. We all just chuckled in agreement when Skip mentioned that Preeeeemium Member or not, Charles, his chauffeur, would still be the one galavanting through the nasty brush and undergrowth to find those exquisite Preeeeemium Members only caches. Pip, pip and tally ho!

 

Obviously, I kid! All caches for all cachers. Become a premium member to support geocaching.com not to make your caches "exclusive". That defeats the purpose of the hobby. And no, I don't oooooown a cache just yet, but I've applied for financing and should have the title for my first any day now.

Edited August 7, 2008 by PARTYHATSFOREVERYONE

[+edscott]

kiel5435, since you don't appear to own any caches you probably can't appreciate the nuances of ownership. I have a MOC because I like to monitor the audit log. My MOC also cost me a lot of money to set up and I am happy to limit the number of people that visit it.

 

Member-only caches definitely seem to help cut down on intentional muggling.

 

Unless your area is particular unusual, the vast majority of caches are not members-only and a non-paying member will miss out on very few caches.

 

"definitely seem"

[+Kit Fox]

baloo&bd

With over 50% of your hides being archived, how could you "know" that MOCs don't work?

 

Simple, they don't. If they did, you would not have such a small percentage of yours marked that way, some of them archived.

 

Wow, you think that a numbers guy like you would have done research before making such foolish comparisons. Had you, you would have found that we moved and as they need maintenance or someone requests the area, I archive them rather than spend the time (1 hour 1 way) and gas money to check on them every time they need checking.

 

Why are such a high percentage of yours archived?

 

Excluding my events, only 17% of my 118 caches have been archived. Hardly a "high percentage."

 

Five caches had the surrounding area damaged to the point that the hide was no longer viable.

 

Nine caches just disappeared (all had one thing in common, hand crafted camo that I suspect was the reason for the theft.)

 

One I archived due to annoying seasonal maintenance. Certain types of Ivy disappears in the winter here.

 

I was forced to archive two caches due to a permanently closed hiking trail.

 

I also archived one due to a complete lack of interest by finders.

 

 

Wow, didn't realize this was such a heated issue. I must thank tozainamboku for their response as it has shed some light on the issue. I discovered a MOC last night and was confused upon finding it.

 

To address a few things: if you're worried about your cache being ransacked, don't place it in a shopping center parking lot. Further, stache your cache better. I'm fairly new - especially compared to you fine folks - but it's been my understanding that geocaching is supposed to get you and to go to places you may not have normally gone or see things you may not have normally seen. My apologies. [see Devil's Stash GCKQNH

 

That doesn't always work, i've had a cache disappear on the side of a mountain, at an elevation of 7500 feet. I suspect the candy dispenser left by the first and only finder, attracted wild animals to the cache.

Edited August 8, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+TrailGators]

Really guys? Is this necessary? In all my experiences of geocaching, I've encountered nothing but amazing people - except when you forget you have a travel bug - and have always had a good time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that having an option for caches to only be available to subscribers seems absurd and for a fellow geocacher to use that option seems even more so. Doesn't this stray away from what geocaching is all about?

 

I think it is absurd that $3.00 is blocking you from having fun, when gas is over $4.00 per gallon . I looked up your most recent find, then checked the nearest 100 geocaches. About 40% of the caches in your area are MO caches. $3.00 and one month is all it would take for you to find all those EVIL, ELITEST caches.

 

Like others have said, come back and chat after you are the owner of some actual geocaches.

 

Be forewarned that this topic always turns into a heated debate. The search function is great for avoiding being Markwelled.

 

Should more caches be made members only?

 

Economics 101

 

Premium Membership Exclusivities

 

Member only caches and why I hate them

 

Caches for premium members only

 

Why have the premium membership?

 

Members only caches

 

Subscription Only Caches--grrrrrrrrrr!

 

Member Only Caches, Should I or shouldn't I?

 

Caches for Premium members only

 

Members only caches

 

"members only" caches rant

 

The First "no Members" Cache

 

Change Moc Suggestion, need only normal account to view

 

Northeast Premium Member Only Caches, What are your thoughts?

 

When To Hide A Premium Member Cache, What is the culture of Member Only cache

 

Members Only Cache Hides, Members Only Cache Hides

 

Members Only, Premium Member Cache

 

And from across the pond

Members Only Caches, Is there a point anymore ?

 

 

baloo&bd

 

With over 50% of your hides being archived, how could you "know" that MOCs don't work?

Nice list KF. Like we've never talked about this before. I've also never understood all the whining over a small percentage of caches that you can pay a lousy 3 bucks to find.

 

The bottomline is that my PMO caches get muggled less. Any yoho can get coordinates and raid a cache so the PMO option does limit the exposure for the my more valuable caches with better swag.

[+The Jester]

I just don't see why all this grief over a few (very few overall) caches for PM's. Why isn't there the same wheeping for PQ's, caches along a route or any of the other 'perks' PM's get? If not being able to hunt a few caches is causing such anxiety and ruining your caching, well, maybe this isn't the sport for you. You might need to find something else to do that doesn't stress your superego.

[+trainlove]

Nope, the GPX file doesn't include data on whether a cache is PMO, so GSAK can't indicate that. To get a GPX file you have to be PM, which means you can view PMO's, so there was no need to flag such caches.

 

Yes, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to GSAK filter and/or otherwise sort a cache based on it's PMO status?

There are GPX extensions for just about everything else in the world, why not Premium Member Only caches?

[+Kit Fox]

Nope, the GPX file doesn't include data on whether a cache is PMO, so GSAK can't indicate that. To get a GPX file you have to be PM, which means you can view PMO's, so there was no need to flag such caches.

 

Yes, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to GSAK filter and/or otherwise sort a cache based on it's PMO status?

There are GPX extensions for just about everything else in the world, why not Premium Member Only caches?

 

The only thing you can do while creating your PQ is check the box that says "Caches [That] are for members only," or "are available to all users." The available to all users is great if you want to take a non-premium member caching with you.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Doesn't this stray away from what geocaching is all about?

No.

[+TrailGators]

...Doesn't this stray away from what geocaching is all about?

No.

Exactly. If some people are willing to pay a very small fee to have a feature that they want and it still allows for thousands of free caches for those that don't want to pay then what is the problem? I still don't get it. I think some people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

[+The Jester]

Nope, the GPX file doesn't include data on whether a cache is PMO, so GSAK can't indicate that. To get a GPX file you have to be PM, which means you can view PMO's, so there was no need to flag such caches.

 

Yes, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to GSAK filter and/or otherwise sort a cache based on it's PMO status?

There are GPX extensions for just about everything else in the world, why not Premium Member Only caches?

What you can do is run a PQ for PMO caches, then use that to set a flag (in User Data or User Data 2) in GSAK. That way you can sort/filter on that flag and see which are PMO's.

[+blb9556]

PMO just started here. In a town just north of here is "immposible Geocache USA" is located. All those are PMO. So now everyone makes them PMO because most of us are PM's.

[+YBLee]

Unfortunately, I never had any issues with my caches until I released them. Within a month, one was gone and one was muggled. Sorry, but the are all back to MOC. Aside from that, I don't think $20 per year is to much to help support this site - MHO.

[+baloo&bd]

Exactly. If some people are willing to pay a very small fee to have a feature that they want and it still allows for thousands of free caches for those that don't want to pay then what is the problem? I still don't get it. I think some people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

No mountain, it was a discussion on the the apparent uselessness of MOC's.

 

It is however disconcerting that you and others have indicated that paying to be a PM is only worth it if you get the added "features" rather than supporting the site many of us use so much.

[+Kit Fox]

Exactly. If some people are willing to pay a very small fee to have a feature that they want and it still allows for thousands of free caches for those that don't want to pay then what is the problem? I still don't get it. I think some people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

No mountain, it was a discussion on the the apparent uselessness of MOC's.

 

It is however disconcerting that you and others have indicated that paying to be a PM is only worth it if you get the added "features" rather than supporting the site many of us use so much.

 

I was a "site supporting" premium member for almost a year before I really used the "premium features." Well I guess I enjoyed the old zoomable geocaching maps.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+TrailGators]

Exactly. If some people are willing to pay a very small fee to have a feature that they want and it still allows for thousands of free caches for those that don't want to pay then what is the problem? I still don't get it. I think some people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

No mountain, it was a discussion on the the apparent uselessness of MOC's.

 

It is however disconcerting that you and others have indicated that paying to be a PM is only worth it if you get the added "features" rather than supporting the site many of us use so much.

Please don't twist what I said. I personally have paid for years because of several benefits of which MOC caches are one benefit.

 

The bottomline is why not have the feature? Lots of people use it because they like it. Nobody is forcing people to look for them. The only reason I hear when these threads popup not to have it, is because some people feel like people use them are being exclusive (snobs). They might be true if we were talking about people driving around in special geocaching BMWs but we are talking about three dollars in this case. Plus that three dollars provides many other benefits including supporting the site.

 

I found 80-90 caches before becoming a premium member. One of the reasons I did is because there was an MOC cache near my house that I couldn't find. So it make me think about becoming a member and I then investigated all the benefits and became a member. So MOC caches also serve a marketing role to promote the site.

Edited August 9, 2008 by TrailGators

[+TotemLake]

It's only apparently useless to those who don't use it. Like Internet (or sms messaging) for cell phone users, the option is there for you to use it. In either case, you still have to pay to use the feature, both in push and pull modes. Some people find it useful, some don't. But to disparage those that use it as elitist is an agitative arguement serving no true purpose except to raise the dander of those who do use it and (in my opinion) a lame attempt to shame them. I believe these folks can come up with better points that can stand on their own legs but choose not to. It turns their issue into an "...and besides..." kind of complaint.

 

MOCs are only one tiny little benefit of the PM and really represent a very small percentage of the overall number of caches. When I first started I didn't see the sense in them even after becoming a PM. However, after a couple of years as PM, and a hide going bad on me along with a number of issues arising with various owners' caches, I can see the legitimacy of the MOC. I don't use it, but I won't disparage those that do.

 

-=-=edited out the quote - my response made it out of context=-=-

Edited August 9, 2008 by TotemLake

[+Tequila]

It's only apparently useless to those who don't use it. Like Internet (or sms messaging) for cell phone users, the option is there for you to use it. In either case, you still have to pay to use the feature, both in push and pull modes. Some people find it useful, some don't. But to disparage those that use it as elitist is an agitative arguement serving no true purpose except to raise the dander of those who do use it and (in my opinion) a lame attempt to shame them. I believe these folks can come up with better points that can stand on their own legs but choose not to. It turns their issue into an "...and besides..." kind of complaint.

 

MOCs are only one tiny little benefit of the PM and really represent a very small percentage of the overall number of caches. When I first started I didn't see the sense in them even after becoming a PM. However, after a couple of years as PM, and a hide going bad on me along with a number of issues arising with various owners' caches, I can see the legitimacy of the MOC. I don't use it, but I won't disparage those that do.

 

-=-=edited out the quote - my response made it out of context=-=-

 

Hear Hear. Well said.

[kiel5435]

I regret posting this topic. I never meant to incite personal attacks, after all it is just geocaching.

[+TotemLake]

Don't be afradi of posting. Just be prepared for the myriad of opinions.

[+TrailGators]

Don't be afradi of posting. Just be prepared for the myriad of opinions.

I agree. After all it's just a forum... Edited August 9, 2008 by TrailGators

[+Tequila]

Don't be afradi of posting. Just be prepared for the myriad of opinions.

I agree. After all it's just a forum...

 

After awhile, you get to know who the agitators are and just ignore their comments. They clearly post to start an argument. Nice examples is this thread.

[+TrailGators]

Don't be afradi of posting. Just be prepared for the myriad of opinions.

I agree. After all it's just a forum...

 

After awhile, you get to know who the agitators are and just ignore their comments. They clearly post to start an argument. Nice examples is this thread.

 

I have 5 people on my manage ignored users list. I'm glad to see that none of them have participated in this thread yet. I think one of them has been permanently banished from the kingdom. Anyhow, if we were all talking about this over a few beers, I'm sure the OP would see that it's just a friendly conversation. Edited August 10, 2008 by TrailGators

[CoyoteRed]

I regret posting this topic. I never meant to incite personal attacks, after all it is just geocaching.

Eh, don't worry about it. You just managed to post a topic in which some folks are adamantly ambivalent, some don't see the logic, and only a few of us are actually right.

 

 

I don't care for the feature because the "test" an MOC provides is whether one has paid Jeremy Irish some money. Which, by extension, means for those who pay for the extra features are automatically nice upstanding citizens. Of course, this is total BS. We contemplated making a few of our caches MOC because of a certain pair of cachers and their trading practices. Guess what? They became PM's and their trading practices didn't change. Go figure.

 

The thing about making a cache MOC to protect a cache is sound, just the test is not logical. You generally need to protect your cache from newbies who don't understand the hobby very well yet or casual marauders who sign up simply to screw with folks. Both of which could easily pay a few bucks to pass the "test."

 

OTOH, some other sort of test, like a certain number of finds or certain amount of time would be a better "test" without restricting non-paying members.

 

What I find "elitist" is the use of MOC for the first few finds in order play favorites to those "who give back to the hobby." Uh? Doesn't everyone who put forth effort to place a decent cache give back to the hobby? Paying Groundspeak for use of a website is the only way to give back to a hobby? What about those who only buy merchandise from the Groundspeak shop? They aren't worthy? I say "hogwash!"

[+Tequila]

I have found the best way to make a cache "safe and secure" is to place it anywhere further than about 300 meters beyond a trail head. Amazing how many cachers have found all the caches in my area except the ones I placed a km or two down a trail.

[+Tequila]

 

I have 5 people on my manage ignored users list. I'm glad to see that none of them have participated in this thread yet. I think one of them has been permanently banished from the kingdom. Anyhow, if we were all talking about this over a few beers, I'm sure the OP would see that it's just a friendly conversation.

 

Wow!! How do you place people on an ignore list. I think I have more than 5 I regularly ignore.

[+The Jester]

I have 5 people on my manage ignored users list. I'm glad to see that none of them have participated in this thread yet. I think one of them has been permanently banished from the kingdom. Anyhow, if we were all talking about this over a few beers, I'm sure the OP would see that it's just a friendly conversation.

 

Wow!! How do you place people on an ignore list. I think I have more than 5 I regularly ignore.

Top of the page is "My Controls", in the left column under "Options" is "Managed Ignored Users".

Edited August 11, 2008 by The Jester