rcflyeriam Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I have noticed alot of caches popping up overseas in locations that should not have caches. How many people can get onto a military base without having a need to be there? How many caches can you place on a military installation? How many people would/could get hurt using these caches as referance points? I know that I might not be seeing it correctly, but I think the answer to my questions would be ZERO, ZERO, TOO MANY! Who is the approving reviewer for some of these caches? Maybe they should read the rules again and rethink their caches overseas. I know I would be pissed off if someone decided to use the caches to hurt our fellow Americans and friends. This is one way to get our hobby into the spot light as being a BAD SPORT/HOBBY! On one military installation alone, I counted 52 (YES, that's fifty two) on 1 installation overseas alone. I dont think we should be allowing this to happen, but we should also allow our fellow Americans to have the freedom to hunt for caches while defending freedom. I know there is no gray area of letting caches being on military installations. Any one else think the say way as me? Why should we give the enemy the means to destroy our people by giving them the cords to just about anywhere on base, by using geocaches as referance points. How can we allow this to happen? RC Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 ok, i'll have a stab at this. your incoherent babble amuses and confounds me. i'm going to pretend you had some salient points and go from there. you don't have to find every cache. every cache does not need to be available to everyone. there's no reason that military guys at overseas installations shouldn't be able to have some fun. it' absolutely no skin off my tail if there are caches i can't get to and i certainly don't care if there are caches you can't get to. if you're enough of an idiot to go overseas to attempt caches at which you have no business, you deserve what's coming to you. Quote Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 The caches present no danger of using the caches as a means to obtain coordinates. A quick search on google earth will do much better. Most of the caches are placed by military members for military members. My son is currently in Iraq an he is thankful for any diversion in what little free time he has. Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 To me, triangulation and Google satellites would be far more efficient. Quote Link to comment
+geocacher_coza Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 WOW!! Here we go again! When I saw the caption at first I thought "Americans and their ego getting to much again" BUT The question is-- Are you talking about caches in military base overseas or caches in general overseas. If you talking about caches in military bases I do support your post. BUT caches in general overseas cannot and should not be judged by Americans. Remember the sport/hobby is world wide and not just in America. The world is a bit bigger than America, just a reminder if you perhaps did not notice! We place caches different than you. What is good in America is perhaps not good in our neck of the woods. Please except the fact that everything is not just how you Americans want it. We also play the game, and we play it without pre judgment toward others! Caching around the world is more than just American! Quote Link to comment
rcflyeriam Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) And as for my free time when I was overseas ... I always found a way to keep myself intertained somehow. I missed my family and friends back home, along with my hobbies. So I understand what they are going thru over there. But its also about the rules and guidelines we go by for caching. If we break the rules for this, then we can break them for any other reason we want when we want to? Edited August 4, 2008 by rcflyeriam Quote Link to comment
rcflyeriam Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Being in the Military myself, I know what its like being in the middle of nowhere, BUT posting cords for everyone to visit is misleading. People outside the gates cant come in and find the caches. In the geocaching guidelines, it states, "Off-limit (Physical) Caches: -------------------------- Caches near or on military installations." If a restricted area is on a military installation, why allow them to place caches? I know my free time was a bit on the "what to do next" list, but thats a part of being in the military. Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Being in the Military myself, I know what its like being in the middle of nowhere, BUT posting cords for everyone to visit is misleading. People outside the gates cant come in and find the caches. In the geocaching guidelines, it states, "Off-limit (Physical) Caches: -------------------------- Caches near or on military installations." If a restricted area is on a military installation, why allow them to place caches? I know my free time was a bit on the "what to do next" list, but thats a part of being in the military. duh. for the entertainment of those stationed there. what's your problem? Quote Link to comment
+softball29 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 WOW!! Here we go again! When I saw the caption at first I thought "Americans and their ego getting to much again" BUT The question is-- Are you talking about caches in military base overseas or caches in general overseas. If you talking about caches in military bases I do support your post. BUT caches in general overseas cannot and should not be judged by Americans. Remember the sport/hobby is world wide and not just in America. The world is a bit bigger than America, just a reminder if you perhaps did not notice! We place caches different than you. What is good in America is perhaps not good in our neck of the woods. Please except the fact that everything is not just how you Americans want it. We also play the game, and we play it without pre judgment toward others! Caching around the world is more than just American! You start your response by saying "Americans and their ego getting to much again." Then you go on a diatribe about Americans and caching and generalize a whole country. So, I'll use your rationalization and logic. YOU should not judge all Americans based on the post of one person and how we as a whole play the game. Everyone plays it differently. America is much bigger than one post or person and we are all NOT the same, just as I wouldn't generaliz about every South African person based on one post. What's good for one American isn't always the same for another, just the same as what is good for one Canadian, Irishman, Russian or South African isn't always the same as another. We all do things different. This whole post is judgmental and makes no sense based on the original posters work. I don't usually jump into things like this, but to group a whole country together because of one post and how you read into it is quite irrational. Quote Link to comment
rcflyeriam Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Maybe I should just put my foot in my mouth and SHUT UP before getting everyone in America in trouble? Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 on the whole, though, we do posess a certail cultural arrogance that seems mostly invisible to your average american. i notice it and neither i nor my friends share it, but often a stereotype happens for a reason. now if you'll excuse me, i'm going to go look for some gay guys that like show tunes, a truck driver that likes country music, or a violist who's an effete snob. i'm on a scavenger hunt. Quote Link to comment
+gpsfun Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Another statement in the guidelines just below the one quoted reads: There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer. Rest assured that the reviewer community is fully aware of the guidelines and that caches placed on overseas military installations are handled appropriately. Quote Link to comment
+geocacher_coza Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 WOW!! Here we go again! When I saw the caption at first I thought "Americans and their ego getting to much again" BUT YOU should not judge all Americans based on the post of one person and how we as a whole play the game. Everyone plays it differently Read the start of my tread again! it reads: When I saw the caption at first I thought The key here is "I thought" Where I come from that means that I FIST had that thought and then changed my mind about it! Not reading correctly is also irrational! AGAIN: As you rightfully state--- What's good for one American isn't always the same for another So what is your problem??? Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 How about you two take it to email and let's get back on topic. Quote Link to comment
+wiseye Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Growup and let our troops enjoy what they can. The cache listings mark nothing and are adjusted locally for usel Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 WOW!! Here we go again! When I saw the caption at first I thought "Americans and their ego getting to much again" BUT The question is-- Are you talking about caches in military base overseas or caches in general overseas. If you talking about caches in military bases I do support your post. BUT caches in general overseas cannot and should not be judged by Americans. Remember the sport/hobby is world wide and not just in America. The world is a bit bigger than America, just a reminder if you perhaps did not notice! We place caches different than you. What is good in America is perhaps not good in our neck of the woods. Please except the fact that everything is not just how you Americans want it. We also play the game, and we play it without pre judgment toward others! Caching around the world is more than just American! My first thought at reading the title was that "overseas" could mean just about anywhere depending on where you live. I live in the U.S. *and* have found a cache in South Africa. It was a nano container that I've never seen elsewhere. I've also found film containers in Rome. The Colosseum cache is used as an example of a micro cache on wikipedia. While searching for another cache in Rome I ran into a couple of geocachers from Germany and we searched together for a means to access the cache. We gave up after awhile, discovered the others coins we had with use, and compared notes on other caches in the area each of us had found. I came away from the experience with the thought that geocachers are pretty much the same no matter where they are from. Quote Link to comment
+Happy Humphrey Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I can't see any problem with caches in military bases if such caches are approved by the reviewer. Despite the extremely clumsy (feet first) posting style I think that the OP might have a good point that a geocacher who lives near a military base in (for example) Germany could be a little annoyed that a cache is off-limits if it's within the base. But the reviewer should know the location and local geocaching customs and take these into account when publishing the cache. For instance, if a base in in the middle of nowhere, with no known civilian cachers anywhere near, then what's the harm in allowing the base personnel to indulge in a little caching fun. I'd also take it that any reviewer would check with the appropriate military (whether US, Canadian, Italian, British, Iranian or whatever) as to whether posting coordinates within a particular base is appropriate. I imagine that's why the default is that these caches are disallowed. ...as an aside, remember that to a significant number on here, "overseas" includes the US too... Quote Link to comment
+The Lone Sapper Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Wow, you have no idea what you are talking about, not even a little bit. Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I have noticed alot of caches popping up overseas in locations that should not have caches. How many people can get onto a military base without having a need to be there? How many caches can you place on a military installation? How many people would/could get hurt using these caches as referance points? I know that I might not be seeing it correctly, but I think the answer to my questions would be ZERO, ZERO, TOO MANY! Who is the approving reviewer for some of these caches? Maybe they should read the rules again and rethink their caches overseas. I know I would be pissed off if someone decided to use the caches to hurt our fellow Americans and friends. This is one way to get our hobby into the spot light as being a BAD SPORT/HOBBY! On one military installation alone, I counted 52 (YES, that's fifty two) on 1 installation overseas alone. I dont think we should be allowing this to happen, but we should also allow our fellow Americans to have the freedom to hunt for caches while defending freedom. I know there is no gray area of letting caches being on military installations. Any one else think the say way as me? Why should we give the enemy the means to destroy our people by giving them the cords to just about anywhere on base, by using geocaches as referance points. How can we allow this to happen? RC Well, my FIRST temptation when I unfortunately encountered your bizarre post was to ignore it and move on, but then the voices in my head reminded me that you DID ask for my opinion. So, since you have asked me for my opinion, and since your subsequent posts have proven to be even more confusing and dense than your original post, here goes: First, I have little idea of what you are REALLY trying to say, as your initial post (along with most of your subsequent posts) is incredibly dense, confused, confusing, ambiguous and murky, and incredibly chaotic as well. Next, to the little extent that I can make a reasonable guess at what you REALLY might be trying to say, well, let me charitably say that it appears that you seem to be very confused and to have no idea of what you are talking about. It might, in fact, be time for you to abandon this bizarre thread, and get on with life. I wish you the best with your problems, and hope you find a way to solve them. Quote Link to comment
+WeeWillie Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 A driver's license, photo ID, registration and proof of insurrance will get you on most military installations. There are some, because of their mission, don't. If there are any restrictions the MPs, APs or SPs will let you know. Many military installations encourage visits as part of their public relations goals. On Ft Huachuca you can hike, camp, fish, bird watch, visit American Indian sites, observe parades and visit the museum. You can't use the PX, Commissary visit the housing areas, or enter barracks. If there is an installation with 52 caches, the installation commander (provost martial) allowed it and the local reviewer accepted it. I'm confident the post HQ or firing ranges are not cache site. Military personnel overseas may not have the language skills to use local caches. Quote Link to comment
+hikemeister Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 My brother just spent three months in Bagdad. Finding a few caches at the military base near the airport was one of the only enjoyable things he did there. I say approve more of them. Quote Link to comment
+Big Bear TC Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Okay let me explain something here. The caches that are on US military bases in Iraq and a few other places that are war zones right now are for military people all over the world that is serving to fight the war on terror. The people got special permission to put them there by Groundspeak. Yes not everyone can get to these caches, so yes they are only for a select few. If there were caches outside of the walls would more than likely kill more troops. The troops need something to do who is restriced to base. Not everyone can go outside the walls. So I think I have answered you question well enough. I also hope the name calling will stop over something this silly. I don't think some of you are going to say "hey I want to go to Bagdad to go caching today does anybody want to go?" Quote Link to comment
+carleenp Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 (edited) From various discussions, my understanding is that caches on military bases generally are there with permission from the base. So I guess I don't see what the problem is. This isn't a circumstance of geocaches leading to secret unknown areas or such. I suppose that in many instances, the location of a cache on a base in a place like Iraq limits who can find it, but that is an exception to the rules that I think is quite warranted given the circumstances. Edited August 5, 2008 by carleenp Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Since the OP bailed out of the thread in post ten with a mea culpa, how about we go ahead and lock the thread? Quote Link to comment
+Big Bear TC Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Since the OP bailed out of the thread in post ten with a mea culpa, how about we go ahead and lock the thread? I think his feelings got hurt and doesn't want to play anymore. So I agree with sbell to lock this thread Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Even better... just stop posting replies. Quote Link to comment
+erik88l-r Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Even better... just stop posting replies. Sorry mtn-man, just had to get in one last word. I'm the reviewer who's published most of the caches on bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are also a few on coalition bases in Kuwait, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia. All cache pages state that they are on a military base and that proper credentials are required to access the cache. That is for the protection of the few civilian geocachers in the area. We don't want them trying to go where they shouldn't. Each and every cache owner is also asked to confirm that he's had permission from his commanding officer or base security before the cache is published. We don't want the coords or cache page info used for targeting purposes by the bad guys. We do want our soldiers to be able to enjoy geocaching in a safe environment on their base. Caches are not knowingly published on US bases in areas that have a large civilian geocaching population, such as Guam or Okinawa. For security reasons they are not published on military bases in the US, as that is what the geocaching guideline prohibiting caches on military bases is aimed at. I cannot speak for bases in some places like Germany, as the German reviewers cover that area, but I would suspect they would also not be published there. Hope that explanation helps. As I stated earlier, we want our soldiers in the middle east to be able to enjoy geocaching, not be shut down by guidelines aimed at bases on US soil. ~erik~ Quote Link to comment
+Big Bear TC Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Even better... just stop posting replies. mtn-man I still love ya. and I do agree with you. But you know someone always wants to shake the hornets net and see how many hornets can come out and sting them. Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Even better... just stop posting replies. mtn-man I still love ya. and I do agree with you. But you know someone always wants to shake the hornets net and see how many hornets can come out and sting them. I know it, but I was hoping ~erik~ would get a chance to notice the topic and reply. I am glad I left it open since his reply gives "the rest of the story". Thanks ~erik~. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Is a hornets net a net used to catch hornets or a net used by hornets or is it a sports-related net (like a volleyball net) used by a team called the Hornets? Quote Link to comment
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