Religious material in caches

[Mushtang]

I have encountered anti-Catholic and anti-Semetic tracts.

Those would be Chick Tracts, which some people prize as highly collectible since they are so overboard as to be funny.

 

Jesus is probably rolling in his grave at these anti-religious tracts.

[+briansnat]

Have you ever found a dollar bill in a cache? Did you take it. If so, better read it. There are religious references there....wooooooo.

 

geocaching .com is opposed to social agendas at caches, which is (i think) a sensible policy.

 

 

Interesting general concept, but is it always followed. Last week I found a 'Christ Centered Geocaching' coin in one of our caches and it was trackable on GC.com. Someone must have approved it. The coin clearly indicated that there was a straight and narrow path to heaven. Fortunately I had just enough time to log it before some athiest cacher stole it from me.

 

Geocoins and other travelers are not covered in the guidelines. Only caches.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Sounds horribly like a Christian (presumably) religious agenda to me. I know Agendas are frowned upon by Groundspeak.

 

However, if the cache owner is happy for me to replace their preferred tracts with some promoting, say, Islam or perhaps Humanism or maybe Atheism then I'm happy that they can stock the cache with their preferred agenda.

 

It's called freedom of speech, something I believe you hold dear over there.

 

<social commentary>

 

you would think people would understand the freedom's they hold dear, but its not usually the case over here. Freedom not only applies to your own beliefs, but also to those that you disagree with. I currently work in the public sector and at Christmas time, they don't allow employees to put up Christmas trees. But when it comes time for the Gay-Straight alliance to have their annual dress up like the oposite sex day, nobody seems to have a problem.

 

My freedom of religion is constantly stepped on. I can't put up decorations at Christmas because it might "offend" someone who is not Christian. Since when did we have a right to not be offended? Missed that one in the Constitution. But if I am offended by the cross-dressers, i'm a biggot.

 

</social commentary>

[+sbell111]

I would treat the religous things you encounter in caches in the same way you do when someone on a street corner presents you with a similar item, pamphlet or artifact.

I'd take that one step further and suggest that you treat them just like you would treat the same materials placed on a table for you to take if you would like. If you want to read it, take it. Otherwise, don't take one.

[+JacobBarlow]

but is really an accepted practice in geocaching?

 

Why is it any different then any other SWAG ? To some people it's Gold and to some people it's garbage, some as mcdonalds toys, signature cards, or whatever else you see in a cache, if you like it, good, if you hate it, someone else will like it.

[+Zop]

[Geocoins and other travelers are not covered in the guidelines. Only caches.

 

Does this mean that I can finally get a trackable illegal alien coin?

[+Zop]

 

Why is it any different then any other SWAG ? To some people it's Gold and to some people it's garbage, some as mcdonalds toys, signature cards, or whatever else you see in a cache, if you like it, good, if you hate it, someone else will like it.

 

Hiya Ad0or! We enjoyed your Utah caches while on our road trip!

 

Now.. Why is it any difference? Well, to me the fast that they are generally paper, tattered and often stuffed into the smallest micro's it just doesn't make sense to leave it to get worse. As for the content, being religious does hit a sour and sometimes offensive note to those of us who do not practice the same beliefs, religions or mythology. I try and keep the swag I leave kid and family friendly. I'm sorry but my kids and I certainly do not find these items enjoyable, amusing, cute, useful or worthy of trades.

 

Also being that they do tend to solicit one belief system, at least the ones I've CITO'd have, they push an agenda.

 

73' and happy cahcing!

 

J..

[+JacobBarlow]

 

Why is it any different then any other SWAG ? To some people it's Gold and to some people it's garbage, some as mcdonalds toys, signature cards, or whatever else you see in a cache, if you like it, good, if you hate it, someone else will like it.

 

Hiya Ad0or! We enjoyed your Utah caches while on our road trip!

 

... I'm sorry but my kids and I certainly do not find these items enjoyable, amusing, cute, useful or worthy of trades...

 

 

Exactly, I love chick tracts and JW tracts and others, I've never seen a religious tract in a cache, but if I did I'd be excited, you don't like them, that's just proving my point from my first post you were quoting.

[Dinoprophet]

George Carlin is seriously over rated. He was a very funny man, and very intelligent, but he wasn't the God that all the band wagoners have made him out to be after he died.

Thank you! Though I'd say it started well before he died. It's ironic that someone who railed so about language would muddy the waters about the definition of "average" so badly.

 

However, if the cache owner is happy for me to replace their preferred tracts with some promoting, say, Islam or perhaps Humanism or maybe Atheism then I'm happy that they can stock the cache with their preferred agenda.

Ah, there it is.

Now some preemptive responses to upcoming posts:

 

- No, I would not care if I found a non-Christian or even Satanic item. In fact, I've collected quite a few items that would probably be considered pagan (dreamcatchers, prayer flags -- these are some highly-sought sig items)

[+bflentje]

 

Why is it any different then any other SWAG ? To some people it's Gold and to some people it's garbage, some as mcdonalds toys, signature cards, or whatever else you see in a cache, if you like it, good, if you hate it, someone else will like it.

 

Hiya Ad0or! We enjoyed your Utah caches while on our road trip!

 

Now.. Why is it any difference? Well, to me the fast that they are generally paper, tattered and often stuffed into the smallest micro's it just doesn't make sense to leave it to get worse. As for the content, being religious does hit a sour and sometimes offensive note to those of us who do not practice the same beliefs, religions or mythology. I try and keep the swag I leave kid and family friendly. I'm sorry but my kids and I certainly do not find these items enjoyable, amusing, cute, useful or worthy of trades.

 

Also being that they do tend to solicit one belief system, at least the ones I've CITO'd have, they push an agenda.

 

73' and happy cahcing!

 

J..

 

In the history of the world, more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause. Why can't you just ignore the materials and move on? The mere fact that you're offended and CITO materials such as this proves nothing more than the idea that you're just as closed minded as the idiot that put it there in the first place. And how come threads on this topic never die?

[+Big Bear TC]

Have you ever found a dollar bill in a cache? Did you take it. If so, better read it. There are religious references there....wooooooo.

 

and there shouldn't be. freedom of religion means freedom FROM religion. government agencies have no business promoting any god.

 

unfortunately, there are few practical alternatives to using the coin of the realm.

 

happily a geocache is not a government agency and cachers while perhaps government agents are (i hope) caching as private citizens and are therefore free to promote religious items as they wish.

 

geocaching .com is opposed to social agendas at caches, which is (i think) a sensible policy.

 

so. religious item as signature, representing you and your visit? sure.

 

religious item meant to pressure or prosyletize? not on your life.

 

there's still a big grey area.

Well with the bills In God We Trust was added during the Cold war in 1957. Right around the same time Under God was added to the pledge.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

In the history of the world, more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause. Why can't you just ignore the materials and move on? The mere fact that you're offended and CITO materials such as this proves nothing more than the idea that you're just as closed minded as the idiot that put it there in the first place. And how come threads on this topic never die?

 

Hmm ... aren't personal attacks against the forum guidelines?

[+Big Bear TC]

Sounds horribly like a Christian (presumably) religious agenda to me. I know Agendas are frowned upon by Groundspeak.

 

However, if the cache owner is happy for me to replace their preferred tracts with some promoting, say, Islam or perhaps Humanism or maybe Atheism then I'm happy that they can stock the cache with their preferred agenda.

 

It's called freedom of speech, something I believe you hold dear over there.

 

<social commentary>

 

you would think people would understand the freedom's they hold dear, but its not usually the case over here. Freedom not only applies to your own beliefs, but also to those that you disagree with. I currently work in the public sector and at Christmas time, they don't allow employees to put up Christmas trees. But when it comes time for the Gay-Straight alliance to have their annual dress up like the oposite sex day, nobody seems to have a problem.

 

My freedom of religion is constantly stepped on. I can't put up decorations at Christmas because it might "offend" someone who is not Christian. Since when did we have a right to not be offended? Missed that one in the Constitution. But if I am offended by the cross-dressers, i'm a biggot.

 

</social commentary>

Christmas trees are not a Christain thing. It is a Pagan thing. So is the yule log. It was adopted by the Christains to win over the Pagans. Decorating was also Pagan. They would be bring in ever greens and holly so life can conitue.

[+Big Bear TC]

 

Why is it any different then any other SWAG ? To some people it's Gold and to some people it's garbage, some as mcdonalds toys, signature cards, or whatever else you see in a cache, if you like it, good, if you hate it, someone else will like it.

 

Hiya Ad0or! We enjoyed your Utah caches while on our road trip!

 

Now.. Why is it any difference? Well, to me the fast that they are generally paper, tattered and often stuffed into the smallest micro's it just doesn't make sense to leave it to get worse. As for the content, being religious does hit a sour and sometimes offensive note to those of us who do not practice the same beliefs, religions or mythology. I try and keep the swag I leave kid and family friendly. I'm sorry but my kids and I certainly do not find these items enjoyable, amusing, cute, useful or worthy of trades.

 

Also being that they do tend to solicit one belief system, at least the ones I've CITO'd have, they push an agenda.

 

73' and happy cahcing!

 

J..

 

In the history of the world, more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause. Why can't you just ignore the materials and move on? The mere fact that you're offended and CITO materials such as this proves nothing more than the idea that you're just as closed minded as the idiot that put it there in the first place. And how come threads on this topic never die?

I will aree with you on this. Yes I did reply to a few things on this thread. But I do aree with you about letting this just die.

[+sbell111]

In the history of the world, more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause. Why can't you just ignore the materials and move on? The mere fact that you're offended and CITO materials such as this proves nothing more than the idea that you're just as closed minded as the idiot that put it there in the first place. And how come threads on this topic never die?

 

Hmm ... aren't personal attacks against the forum guidelines?

I assume that the 'idiot' in question is a hypothetical cacher, much like the 'stupid' cacher in the stealth thread.

[Dinoprophet]

In the history of the world, more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.

I often hear that but have never seen the numbers. Certainly the number is much higher than it ought to be, but I have to wonder. It can't be true of the 20th century at any rate -- the two bloodiest wars in history and the Communists easily have the lock on those years.

[+Mokzii]

I think religious items are okay, provided that it isn't geared towards converting people.

I understand that people who leave things like this have their hearts in the right place - but no one likes to be preached at.

I'm a Christian myself, and even I don't like having it shoved in my face.

We're all entitled to our own beliefs.

I left a stone with a cross etched in to it in the first cache I ever found. It was in a Civil War graveyard and seemed appropriate to me. The item also had value to me.

The stone, however, didn't have a note attached to it plugging my religion. That is when it goes, in my opinion, over the line.

[+WeeWillie]

Religion is hardly the cause for mass murder in the 20th Century. Here is a pretty good event list / headcount.

 

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

[+Skylighter]

I know I am a bit late to this party, but I feel strongly on this one:

 

Religious advertising does not belong in this hobby. Religious advertising items placed in caches are trash. I suggest you remove religious items and throw them away.

 

Of course, I feel this way about the stupid Jeep travelbugs too.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

In the history of the world, more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause. Why can't you just ignore the materials and move on? The mere fact that you're offended and CITO materials such as this proves nothing more than the idea that you're just as closed minded as the idiot that put it there in the first place. And how come threads on this topic never die?

 

Hmm ... aren't personal attacks against the forum guidelines?

I assume that the 'idiot' in question is a hypothetical cacher, much like the 'stupid' cacher in the stealth thread.

 

Too funny.

[+JBnW]

I have encountered anti-Catholic and anti-Semetic tracts.

Those would be Chick Tracts, which some people prize as highly collectible since they are so overboard as to be funny.

 

Jesus is probably rolling in his grave at these anti-religious tracts.

 

Jesus is not rolling in his grave, he was resurrected from the dead! That's my belief, and one that is shared by many, but not by all. If someone does not share this belief, then can we agree to disagree, and, my hope, that we move along in peace?

 

Along a similar line, I recently found a nearby cache that a previous finder had taken the time to mention in their Found It post that they had left an American flag. When I got there, the only representation of a flag was on an unopened condom wrapper. Not my idea of quality swag. I passed over it to the other trinkets inside, signed the log, replaced properly, and went my way. The more I think of it, the more I wish I would have CITO'd this cache! So, to this group, 4 miles is nothing out of my way...is this something that should be CITO'd??

[mlbcard]

 

<social commentary>

 

you would think people would understand the freedom's they hold dear, but its not usually the case over here. Freedom not only applies to your own beliefs, but also to those that you disagree with. I currently work in the public sector and at Christmas time, they don't allow employees to put up Christmas trees. But when it comes time for the Gay-Straight alliance to have their annual dress up like the oposite sex day, nobody seems to have a problem.

 

</social commentary>

 

It's not about holding back your freedoms. It's about common courtesy to other cachers. Despite what some might think, trying to convert people who are not interested is rude (and people who are interested could find more appropriate venues). Similarily, I don't think it's proper (and I haven't heard of it happening) if an employer in the public sector encourages "dress up like the opposite sex day."

Edited August 6, 2008 by mlbcard

[GeoNaturist]

Religion is hardly the cause for mass murder in the 20th Century. Here is a pretty good event list / headcount.

 

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

 

Well for one, Nazi Germany was in fact a Christian nation. Hitler himself was a Christian and had the support of the Catholic church (which incidentally, was also the source of German antisemitism for hundreds of years and lead directly to the holocaust).

 

Even Nazi belt buckles had "Gott Mit Uns" (God With Us) engraved on them..

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

Edited August 6, 2008 by GeoNaturist

[+BlueDeuce]

meanwhile...back at the cache swag topic....

[+flask]

Hitler himself was a Christian

 

where are you gettin' this?

 

hijacking christian language and imagery for the purpose of setting up a state-sponsored religion worshipping first HIM and then his race of übermenschen doesn't really qualify as being christian.

 

and he had more catholic silence than support, but the whole history of anti-semitism and the catholic church is kind of more complicated than that. come to think of it, the whole history of the catholic church is kind of complicated and it's difficult to make sweeping generalizations about it that are both fair and accurate.

 

(it is at this point that someone usually labels me anti-catholic and i have to go to the trouble of saying no, that's not what i meant...)

[AZcachemeister]

In the history of the world, more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.

 

Actually, I think territory is the big winner here.

Religion is definitely running a close second, though.

 

Anyone who thinks the 'war on communism' wasn't at least partially about religion should review the history books. (I seem to recall that true communism was totally against any religion?)

 

I am not an 'atheist', but I do not subscribe to any organized religion, so far. Buddhism is attractive. (Deleting text discussing WHY we need religion at all.)

 

Christianity subverted a lot of pagan beliefs to their advantage.

 

We (in the USA) certainly do hold dear our freedom of speach, AND our freedom of (and from!) religion, but the two are certainly independent from each other.

 

A religious tract in a cache is just so much printed paper, if it's mush and moldy, CITO. If you don't agree, leave it and move on.

[+flask]

 

Actually, I think territory is the big winner here.

Religion is definitely running a close second, though.

 

 

don't forget money.

 

oh, and the unfortunate practice of people in power to use religion in order to cement and expand power and therefore territory and money.

 

if you tell people you're going to fight some people whose ecomnomics don't work in your interests, it's a lot easier to get them to jump on board if you tell them God wants it that way.

 

i am not sure why people are that stupid, but they are. always have been. and it really casts faith in a bad light.

[+Gipsie]

Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money.

[4wheelin_fool]

Whoops! Sorry about that. I posted that last post accidentally under my "gipsie" sockpuppet account. But it was me.

[+Gipsie]

Whoops! Sorry about that. I posted that last post accidentally under my "gipsie" sockpuppet account. But it was me.

Who you calling a sock puppet?

[+The Hornet]

And here we go again. There must be a law of nature that ensures all topics that start off with a sensible discussion containing a religious element descend into chaos. I'm not religious myself, tending towards the Richard Dawkins side of the discussion but I do think it ought to be possible for all sides to stay civil.

 

Sigh!!

[+wimseyguy]

Religion is hardly the cause for mass murder in the 20th Century. Here is a pretty good event list / headcount.

 

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

 

Well for one, Nazi Germany was in fact a Christian nation. Hitler himself was a Christian and had the support of the Catholic church (which incidentally, was also the source of German antisemitism for hundreds of years and lead directly to the holocaust).

 

Even Nazi belt buckles had "Gott Mit Uns" (God With Us) engraved on them..

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

Paging Mr. Godwin, paging Mr. Godwin.

Post 73 has arrived.

[+flask]

 

Paging Mr. Godwin, paging Mr. Godwin.

Post 73 has arrived.

 

doesn't there have to be an attribution of the label to a poster in the thread in order for godwin to be invoked properly?

[+JacobBarlow]

 

Jesus is probably rolling in his grave at these anti-religious tracts.

 

Didn't he leave his grave?

[+baloo&bd]

Bringing this back to the OP:

 

Just curious, but in regards to cache etiquette, what's the accepted thought on religious material

being placed in caches?

 

There really is no accepted "thought" on it. Other than items that are saftey issues, this is really a "ignore it if it bothers you" thing.

 

I ask because I'm rather new at this and really do not know. So far my wife and I have encountered at least three caches with religious tracts stuck in them (one was almost stuffed with them. I'm not a follower of any religion, and I grant that each has a right to his or her own beliefs, but is really an accepted practice in geocaching?

 

Accepted is not really the issue. Neither is free speech. If you wanted to put a tract regarding NASA and a faked moon landing or a 9-11 cover-up, they may not be PC, but you CAN. Someone may listen, most will ignore.

 

It comes down to what you want to get worked up over, and frankly, this is not worth it.

 

So, to keep a long post short...sorry, too late....the etiquette is dictated by cachers in your area and those you cache with in particular. Just don't be disappointed if there are a few cachers who choose to ignore your views.

[+baloo&bd]

doesn't there have to be an attribution of the label to a poster in the thread in order for godwin to be invoked properly?

 

OK, post #73. Godwin as well as inaccuracy.

 

Lock down clock starts.....now!

[+flask]

i still don't believe godwin applies here.

[CacheNCarryMA]

i still don't believe godwin applies here.

 

Why do you have to be so picky about Godwin's law? Are you some kind of forum Nazi?

 

 

 

Now it does.

[+mousekakat]

Who is Godwin and what is his law?

[+flask]

Who is Godwin and what is his law?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

i stand corrected.

 

godwin can indeed be invoked now.

[Scamp]

Along a similar line, I recently found a nearby cache that a previous finder had taken the time to mention in their Found It post that they had left an American flag. When I got there, the only representation of a flag was on an unopened condom wrapper. Not my idea of quality swag. I passed over it to the other trinkets inside, signed the log, replaced properly, and went my way. The more I think of it, the more I wish I would have CITO'd this cache! So, to this group, 4 miles is nothing out of my way...is this something that should be CITO'd??

 

I'd CITO that even though I don't find condoms to be offensive at all. Latex degrades with time, and heat accelerates the process. A condom that's been sitting out in a cache is pretty likely to no longer be safe, and it would be terrible if someone used it and thought that they were protected when they were not.

 

On the original topic, whatever. I don't find moderate religious tracts to be offensive, and I laugh at Chick Tracts and other extremist propaganda even though I belong to one of the sects that they malign. I'd only bother CITOing them if they were a sodden mess like most paper in a cache tends to end up.

[Dinoprophet]

Who is Godwin and what is his law?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

i stand corrected.

 

godwin can indeed be invoked now.

No, you were right. It doesn't apply.

Godwin's Law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions. It does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda, or other mainstays of the Nazi regime.

Carry on!

Edited August 7, 2008 by Dinoprophet

[+ReadyOrNot]

 

<social commentary>

 

you would think people would understand the freedom's they hold dear, but its not usually the case over here. Freedom not only applies to your own beliefs, but also to those that you disagree with. I currently work in the public sector and at Christmas time, they don't allow employees to put up Christmas trees. But when it comes time for the Gay-Straight alliance to have their annual dress up like the oposite sex day, nobody seems to have a problem.

 

</social commentary>

 

It's not about holding back your freedoms. It's about common courtesy to other cachers. Despite what some might think, trying to convert people who are not interested is rude (and people who are interested could find more appropriate venues). Similarily, I don't think it's proper (and I haven't heard of it happening) if an employer in the public sector encourages "dress up like the opposite sex day."

 

If you are going to put rules on cache swag, are you going to apply those rules evenly to every agenda, or just the agenda you disagree with? Everyone and everything is an agenda. As an example, from your perspective, religious items are rude and solicit. From the perspective of the person placing them, they are trying to save your life.

 

I think its rude to call someone rude when they are trying to help you. There are 2 ways to go... 1) Ban everything that may offend (which is just about everything) or 2) Deal with it and ignore what you don't like, or trade it up....

 

I'm offended by your post, can you please not post anymore. Thank you.

[+flask]

 

I think its rude to call someone rude when they are trying to help you.

 

it is rude to assume you know what's best for other people and it is rude to provide "help" that is neither requested nor welcome.

 

people insisting that religious proselytizing is really doing people a favor are rude on an extreme level. it would be rude to follow people around at the grocery store attempting to "assist" people in making better nutritional choices. it would be rude to go to people's homes and give unsolicited advice on the conduct of their marital relationships. it would be rude to offer unwanted fashion advice.

 

what makes these spiritual busybodies think that somehow their extreme discourtesy may be excused on the grounds that they know better the intimate workings of another person's soul?

 

it is patronizing and offensive to attempt to defend this behavior on the grounds that you are somehow spiritually superior and that you are somehow helping us.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Wow, you've all but ensured that this will be locked now.

 

Insulting and attacking others. Discussing religion beyond the context of the thread. Going off topic.

 

Wow.

[+flask]

Wow, you've all but ensured that this will be locked now.

 

Insulting and attacking others. Discussing religion beyond the context of the thread. Going off topic.

 

Wow.

 

the discussion of spiritual busybodies is very much in keeping with this thread; there is a general line of thought here that items meant to proselytize are offensive. excusing this behavior on the grounds that you're doing people a favor is doubly so.

 

i've not made an attack on any particular people, but if the shoe fits, those whom it fits are welcome to feel offended.

 

i rather meant to attack (and firmly) the practice of harassing and hounding people who do not wish to be addressed regarding their personal salvation. leaving little items meant to make anyone see that they are somehow deficient is a harassing behavior and it should be denounced.

 

i have actually not approached the topic of religion itself; this is not a thread about religion. it is about whether or not religious items in caches are offensive.

 

and if i may be permitted to address you specifically, i'm going to suggest that maybe "wow" perhaps expresses a larger sense of surprise and disbelief than is maybe called for by a post straying off the centerline of a topic. it wouldn't have been all that uncommon even if it had been off topic.

 

on top of which, if for some reason this latest incarnation of this old chestnut did get locked down, what would be the detriment?

 

wow.

[+Cherokee Bill]

Wow, you've all but ensured that this will be locked now.

 

Insulting and attacking others. Discussing religion beyond the context of the thread. Going off topic.

 

Wow.

 

the discussion of spiritual busybodies is very much in keeping with this thread; there is a general line of thought here that items meant to proselytize are offensive. excusing this behavior on the grounds that you're doing people a favor is doubly so.

 

i've not made an attack on any particular people, but if the shoe fits, those whom it fits are welcome to feel offended.

 

i rather meant to attack (and firmly) the practice of harassing and hounding people who do not wish to be addressed regarding their personal salvation. leaving little items meant to make anyone see that they are somehow deficient is a harassing behavior and it should be denounced.

 

i have actually not approached the topic of religion itself; this is not a thread about religion. it is about whether or not religious items in caches are offensive.

 

and if i may be permitted to address you specifically, i'm going to suggest that maybe "wow" perhaps expresses a larger sense of surprise and disbelief than is maybe called for by a post straying off the centerline of a topic. it wouldn't have been all that uncommon even if it had been off topic.

 

on top of which, if for some reason this latest incarnation of this old chestnut did get locked down, what would be the detriment?

 

wow.

 

Well. I remember a time in 1977, that I can say that I am thankful that someone cared enough about my sole (eternity) that they witnessed to me ( a verbal tract if you will), and I was saved as a result. "And he who was not found written in the Book of Life, was cast into the lake of fire for ever, this is the second death".

 

If you do not agree with the message, let it be!

[+BlueDeuce]

So....when you find tracts in a cache, religious or otherwise, you can leave them or trade'em out.

 

That's it.

[+flask]

 

Well. I remember a time in 1977, that I can say that I am thankful that someone cared enough about my sole (eternity) that they witnessed to me ( a verbal tract if you will), and I was saved as a result.

 

were you interested to hear it? if so, he WAS doing you a favor.

 

informing people who do not wish to hear it that they are somehow deficient is not doing them a favor. it is rude whether it is done in person or through little "gifts".

 

i fall somewhat short of my mother's expectations for me in terms of religion. she has the courtesy and respect not to bring it up, which i appreciate very much.

 

i do not object to religious items in caches categorically, but rather i judge them by perceived intent. sometimes there's a grey area, and sometimes the intent is all too clear.

 

i remember following this guy around at a bunch of caches near malone, NY. in every logbook he thanked Jesus for helping him find the cache (as if Jesus is wandering around in the woods with an explorist) and in every log he made sure to tell subsequent finders that if they would only come to Jesus, all the sorrows in their lives would be no more.

 

i found it to be deeply offensive. i resent being told that the sorrow in my life is all somehow a result of a deficiency in my soul. i was feeling my wounds pretty keenly: the loss of a close loved one, the loss of a 20-year career, a lifetime of chronic illness and pain.

 

and i open geocache after geocache only to be informed that i am somehow incomplete and that if i had faith, all of my sorrows would have been fixed.

 

it was insulting, and it caused me much pain.

[GeoNaturist]

doesn't there have to be an attribution of the label to a poster in the thread in order for godwin to be invoked properly?

 

OK, post #73. Godwin as well as inaccuracy.

 

Lock down clock starts.....now!

 

Sorry sparky, but it is neither a Godwin, nor is it inaccurate.