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tozainamboku

The Rules Have Changed

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With all the churn over the latest release, some people may not have notice that the "rules" for Geocaching have changed.

 

Ever since I started geocaching and perhaps ever since Dave Ulmer posted the announcement of the first ever cache the rules have been

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

1. Take something from the cache

 

2. Leave something in the cache

 

3. Write about it in the logbook

 

Now I'm not one to stand in the way of change. In fact, I proposed new rules back in 2005. Perhaps the real problem is not the rules themselves so much as that they are called "rules" when they are really just instructions on what you should do after you find a cache.

 

The change that was made last week, however, is not insignificant. It will, no doubt, influence many forum debates on geocaching ettiquette and when you can log a find online. The fact that it was made unilaterally by TPTB will surely be used by one side or the other to bolster their claims that someone who decides to do something different after they found a cache is "cheating" or at least not geocaching.

 

The new FAQ now reads

What are the rules in Geocaching?

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

The first rule combines old rules #1 and #2. The new rule makes trading optional. This deals with issues raised by swagless cache and the by fact that no one actually trades at every cache. Still those who disapprove of swagless caches will likely cite this rule that if trading is something optional you can do when you find a cache, caches with no trade items are in opposition to the rules. The new rule also codifies the concept of trading up. While this is a noble goal to leave caches better than when we found them, we should realize that some people will take more than they leave. Even forgetting human nature to look for that "good deal", most of us are not professional appraisers. I have no idea which is worth more - a dirty golf ball or a used Happy Meal toy? I would have left this phrase out of the "rules" and just state elsewhere the concept of trading up. TPTB chose not to cover other special take something/leave something situations such as travel bugs, so I'm not sure why the trading up stuff couldn't have been handle similarly.

 

The second rules looks at first blush like the old rule #3. A more careful parsing reveals that now you write about "your find" in the cache log book. Some will no doubt point to this as meaning that writing in the cache log is not part of finding the cache but simple something to do after you have found the cache. Could that mean you should be able log your find online if you didn't sign the log? There is still no indication here as to what constitutes writing about your find. Elsewhere in the section on Finding your first cache, it says

Sign the logbook with your name, the date, and a few words about your experience.
So what happens with a micro scroll where I have trouble writing out tozainamboku let alone a date or anything about my find? Just what do I have to write to follow the rule. Can I use stickers or a stamp?

 

The third rule is new, and is the most troublesome for me. For the first time the rules say to log your experience on www.geocaching.com. Does this mean that people who don't log online aren't geocaching? I have always appreciated that using the online logging capability is optional. Some people are just not into numbers, or have privacy concerns about leaving a track of which caches they have been to. I've often sarcastically noted that I will cross out the names of any who signed the log but didn't log a find online. But I do this to counter the importance that some have given the online log in determining whether someone found a cache. The new rule also doesn't explicitly state what kind of log to use to log your experience. I guess one could just post notes if they don't want to count the numbers. There is also nothing it the rule regarding multiple logging of a cache if that is ok with the cache owner. If TPTB wanted to stop this practice wouldn't they have said to log a find the first time you find the cache and to log a note if you revisit a cache to move a travel bug or just to see how the cache is doing?

 

I would say the new rules have addressed some of the issues with the old rules. They provide clearer instructions for new cacher as to what to do after finding a cache. They still leave a lot of issues unresolved and I expect to see a lot of continued debate and discussion in the forums. :ph34r:

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As for the rules.

 

if you take something you should leave something, with the idea that it's of same or better value, if you don't have anything, don't trade, simply put.

 

I typically don't trade mainly because it's more stuff to lug around and the trading isn't the part i like about the game.

 

I'll leave my name and date, much like you would in a logbook at the top of a peak, however i try to leave a longer one on the website with random remarks and photos.

 

Since you are the search engine, you get what you give in this game. Obviously not everyone is going to be completely honest much like real life, but you do what you can to make it more enjoyable for everyone.

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You might want to re-read your post. You seem to leap to some conclusions that seem unsupported. With rule 2 and 3, how can anyone suggest they mean you can log online without signing the cache log?

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

The second rules looks at first blush like the old rule #3. A more careful parsing reveals that now you write about "your find" in the cache log book. Some will no doubt point to this as meaning that writing in the cache log is not part of finding the cache but simple something to do after you have found the cache. Could that mean you should be able log your find online if you didn't sign the log? There is still no indication here as to what constitutes writing about your find.
Well I don't know about you, but so far I have never been able to write in a cache log until after I have found the cache, opened it and removed the log. If you have a way to write in the cache log before you find the cache I would like to hear about it. :ph34r:

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The third rule is new, and is the most troublesome for me. For the first time the rules say to log your experience on www.geocaching.com. Does this mean that people who don't log online aren't geocaching?

 

This brings to mind the old Thursday "Must SEE TV." Remember? Back when Friends and Seinfeld ruled the ratings.....

 

I remember some comic joking Where the heck did NBC get off making a statement like that. He said, "Shouldn't it be PLEASE see TV?" :ph34r::o:D

 

GC.com RULES the ratings for the greatest portion of the cachin' community pie. :P

 

This change makes no difference at all to me. I like to trade and no one has complained about my trades so far. I tend to leave stuff in caches that have nothing to take. I always log online, but I've been known to let logs pile up for a year or more. If I write MORE than my siggy in a cache log, it's because location is special and it afforded me TIME to sit in peace unmolested by bugs and muggles.

 

(and maybe private enough to molest my wife too.)

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Toz,

 

I really do think you are parsing this much too closely. It's perhaps unfortunate that this FAQ is labeled "rules". But at the same time, part of the point is to be brief. You can use a hundred words describing how one should be brief, but that doesn't have the same effect as actually being brief in the description. "Rules" is briefer than "procedures".

 

Someone who signs the physical log but doesn't log online is simply a muggle. Cachers have always welcomed muggles who respect the integrity of the cache.

 

To me, the point of this FAQ is to provide so brief a description of the process of caching that a beginning can wrap hisser mind around it. "Trade up, sign, log online" might do even better. This is guidance, not a legal contract. (And you are welcome to cite me on that when someone claims in the forum that the FAQ constitutes a legal contract :ph34r: even though IANAL.)

 

Edward

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Actually, the online log thing was already there, it that list just wasn't numbered. I suspect you followed some links and read some stuff you haven't read in a long time (some nice additions to the getting started pages - how to log a cache for instance). But hear me now and believe me later, that part about "online log" isn't new.

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I think what T is saying is that the rule implies it's already a find before you write in the logbook.

 

However, I think what is more interesting is that this allows the logging legalists to say that just signing the book is no longer adequate. The RULES say you have to WRITE ABOUT YOUR FIND. If all you do is sign your name, or leave a stamp or card, it's not a find, and your log can be deleted. Sorry, them's the rules. Kind of leaves nanos in an interesting bind.

 

This in my mind makes legalism look even sillier, which is good.

Edited by Dinoprophet

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Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Edited by Michael

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Mr. T, I think you're taking the change waaay to seriously.

 

These are only rules, not the law. Nobody is going to jail if these aren't followed. The acceptance of a Find on a cache is still left up to the owner. As long as the owner accepts the Find then it's pretty much irrelevant what the trade was, or how much was written in the logbook, etc.

 

Breaking the rules listed above is still no more offensive than allowing your girlfriend to move her golf ball during a game of Putt-Putt. It's allowed to make sure everyone has maximum fun, right? She won't get asked to leave the course by the management. And nobody will get kicked off the web site for not logging their finds online even if the owner thinks it's rude not to.

 

The change to the "rules" doesn't make any difference as to how we "should" play. It was probably done to keep threads like this from nit picking the rules to try and prove someone's personal preference on how the game should be played.

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Mr. T, I think you're taking the change waaay to seriously.

 

These are only rules, not the law. Nobody is going to jail if these aren't followed. The acceptance of a Find on a cache is still left up to the owner. As long as the owner accepts the Find then it's pretty much irrelevant what the trade was, or how much was written in the logbook, etc.

 

Breaking the rules listed above is still no more offensive than allowing your girlfriend to move her golf ball during a game of Putt-Putt. It's allowed to make sure everyone has maximum fun, right? She won't get asked to leave the course by the management. And nobody will get kicked off the web site for not logging their finds online even if the owner thinks it's rude not to.

 

The change to the "rules" doesn't make any difference as to how we "should" play. It was probably done to keep threads like this from nit picking the rules to try and prove someone's personal preference on how the game should be played.

I took T's post as a poke at people who do take them as law. My response certainly was. People here have made it quite clear that they wouldn't hesitate to kick your girlfriend off their course if she "cheated" on a course they owned.

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"...caches with no trade items are in opposition to the rules.

I'd disagree with that position or the ability to argue it. The key word is (in the 'rule') "If" (...you take something...).

 

~S*H

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To me the new rules are perfect. They retain the simplicity of the original version, but clarify that signing the log is required*. There will always be folks who argue over the meaning of the word "if" when it is written with a capital I on the second Tuesday of the week and the font means so muchit makesmyheadhurtjustlisteningtothat!

 

*as required as it can be in a fun but meaningless game based on the honor system :ph34r:

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I think the change is irrelevant. i'm sure the change was made to encourage online logging, but it can't force it. Really, what would the penalty be for breaking the "rules"? Nothing. So don't sweat it.

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I guess I'm missing the big deal in this. It all seems minor and generally inconsequential to me, especially when those "rules" are are really more like suggestions and haven't changed in any significant way.

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I think the change is irrelevant. i'm sure the change was made to encourage online logging, but it can't force it. Really, what would the penalty be for breaking the "rules"? Nothing. So don't sweat it.

 

Ditto. I think maybe the wording will feel "threatening" to the "there are no rules" and "playing the game your own way" crowd.

 

Until TBTB send out logbook pusherbots to check everybody's actions I think we should all relax and keep playing the game.

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Someone who signs the physical log but doesn't log online is simply a muggle. Cachers have always welcomed muggles who respect the integrity of the cache.

 

 

So, with over 2700 "logged online" finds, I am now a cheater and a muggle because I have not logged EVERY ONE online?

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Someone who signs the physical log but doesn't log online is simply a muggle...

Woohoo! Finally graduated to muggle! ~2500 logged online but ~30% more that I signed and did not log. Surely not a simple muggle though, that oughta make me at least an uber-muggle.

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I think the change is irrelevant. i'm sure the change was made to encourage online logging, but it can't force it. Really, what would the penalty be for breaking the "rules"? Nothing. So don't sweat it.

Oh, probably about the same as not posting to this thread simply to increase your post count? :o:ph34r:

 

If you are using a GPS to find somewhat permanent hidden containers with a log in them you are a geocacher and you are geocaching. Call it something else if it makes more breeze go up your skirt, but you are geocaching in my book.

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...The new FAQ now reads

What are the rules in Geocaching?

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

...

 

Given the first two don't specify caches listed on GC.com...

I think #3 promotes logging your event only caches as attended on the main event.

Heck it may even encourge logging your TC and NV caches on events, or archived caches.

I'm thinking it's going to be utter anarchy and caching life as we know it is about to end.

 

More likley. It doesn't matter much, until someone comes along and takes it as gospel.

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I think maybe the wording will feel "threatening" to the "there are no rules" and "playing the game your own way" crowd.

 

I think you are onto something here.

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I think this has been over-analyzed quite a bit. Keep in mind this is found in the "FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions" section. So TPTB are answering a frequently asked question with the 3 "rules" of geocaching. They aren't necessarily calling them rules. They are just quoting the FAQ and answering it. Would calling them "guidelines" make you feel better?

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The funniest part of this to me is that this was probably just an innocent re-write of that section with no grand scheme in mind at all. Suddenly I feel the urge to Netflix the movie "Conspiracy Theory".

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Do you remember where you were when this change was posted?

 

Me neither.

 

Although I do understand why this would be a concern for those few folks who like to split the ultra-fine hair.

 

 

edit: one too many h's

Edited by BlueDeuce

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Regardless of how anyone interrupts the new “rules” I will continue my geocaching adventures as I want as I have from my day one. After all, as the pirates all say, "they're really just guidelines anyway". Aren’t we all really just pirates out looking for treasure and the “rules” be damned?

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I'm going to bookmark this satire thread so that I can quickly point to it every time someone does cite "the rules" from now on.

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3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

The third rule is new, and is the most troublesome for me. For the first time the rules say to log your experience on www.geocaching.com.

 

..... I will cross out the names of any who signed the log but didn't log a find online.

 

Well, you were correct to do that. The new rules have made it explicitly clear that you must log your find online. I'm guessing that several people who did not log their finds online found out that their names were being crossed out of logbooks and complained, so TPTB spelled it out that they must now log online. :mad:

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Do you remember where you were when this change was posted?

 

Me neither.

 

Although I do understand why this would be a concern for those few folks who like to split the ultra-fine hair.

 

edit: one too many h's

 

I think I was out getting ice cream. :mad:

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A rose by any other name - smells just as sweet........

 

. . . . and a cigar always stinks, even though all are smokes, some smokes are not! :mad:

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I'm guessing that several people who did not log their finds online found out that their names were being crossed out of logbooks and complained, so TPTB spelled it out that they must now log online. :mad:

I seriously doubt that was their intent. Groundspeak is a listing site; as such all they can control is their listings. They do not own and can not control the game. Anyone can find geocaches and sign them without reporting to Groundspeak.

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I'm guessing that several people who did not log their finds online found out that their names were being crossed out of logbooks and complained, so TPTB spelled it out that they must now log online. ;)

I seriously doubt that was their intent. Groundspeak is a listing site; as such all they can control is their listings. They do not own and can not control the game. Anyone can find geocaches and sign them without reporting to Groundspeak.

 

I know, I was only kidding. :mad:

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Elsewhere in the section on Finding your first cache, it says
Sign the logbook with your name, the date, and a few words about your experience.
So what happens with a micro scroll where I have trouble writing out tozainamboku let alone a date or anything about my find? Just what do I have to write to follow the rule.

 

No doubt there will be debate and discussion here on any and all geocaching related rules and guidelines , whether they be recently noted or long established.

 

The thing about rules is, they are guidelines for how to act in a most situations. In extenuating circumstances, most rules shift to support the "next best thing to do".

 

For example; if the rule is "stay on the curb until the light turns green", that rule goes out the window when a person needs to be pulled from the path of oncoming traffic. (Yes, an extreme example, but it was the first one that cam to mind.).

 

A micro scroll in a magnetic button is an extenuating circumstance. A ten word log isn't practical. Most cachers are doing good to get in their initials and a date. Virtuals are the same way. No log book, nothing to write in.

 

I guess the rules are the rules unless the cache is constructed in such a way that part of the rules cannot be met. That would make sense.

 

"Write a few words about your experience" is a good rule, I like that. I recall finding a cache with my sons a couple of years ago. The weather was optimum, the cache location was memorable, and the walk in was just a right as it could be. I spent 20 minutes writing my log in the log book. Today, my log book writing has devolved, and I need to go back to writing a few words about the experience in each log book.

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"Write a few words about your experience" is a good rule, I like that. I recall finding a cache with my sons a couple of years ago. The weather was optimum, the cache location was memorable, and the walk in was just a right as it could be. I spent 20 minutes writing my log in the log book. Today, my log book writing has devolved, and I need to go back to writing a few words about the experience in each log book.

 

I agree. Mine has also, and I especially like reading all the logs of an old log book. The old entries usually take up a page, but nowadays everyone justs put a signature and the date. Although it makes sense in smaller logbooks, it is just not as interesting.

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Today, my log book writing has devolved, and I need to go back to writing a few words about the experience in each log book.

 

I found my log writing got shorter and shorter as caches appeared in more and more visible locations. All too often my goal is to get my name into the logbook as fast as I can so I can rehide the whole thing before someone comes along.

 

Wilderness caches still rate a bit of a longer physical log and I always try to write "good" online logs for all my caching experiences.

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Wilderness caches still rate a bit of a longer physical log and I always try to write "good" online logs for all my caching experiences.

 

I've enjoyed taking time to read some of the previous log book entries, especially ones that described just what I'd experienced. Reading a reference to "mosquitoes horrible, view wonderful" that's two years old, and seeing that nothing has changed, gives me a feeling of kinship to the visitor two years before.

 

That doesn't happen with just a sig and a date, though I'm guilty of doing that, too.

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I don't view this so much of a rule change but rather a rewording of what most cachers do all the time. There were folks that didn't like the old wording and there are those who will quibble with the new wording. I Believe it is clearer now but it doesn't affect what I do one bit.

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I don't view this so much of a rule change but rather a rewording of what most cachers do all the time. There were folks that didn't like the old wording and there are those who will quibble with the new wording. I Believe it is clearer now but it doesn't affect what I do one bit.

I don't know how you (or any one) would know what most cachers do all the time? Did you actually do a survey? But let's just say that what is written is what most cachers do when the find a cache. Shouldn't the FAQ say

What are the rules in Geocaching?What do I do when I find a cache?

Most cachers do the following when they find a cache:

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

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What are the rules in Geocaching?

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

Let me give you the "Georgia" version of these rules:

 

1. If you take a pin leave a pin, if you take a deck of cards, leave that cute stuffed animal that's been riding around in your pack for six months, if you find a dirty golf ball in the cache throw the %&**# thing as far as you can into the woods....I hate dirty golf balls! :mad: Please do something to the cache that will make the persons coming along behind you smile.

 

2. Sign the log book, slip of paper or initial the freeking small little toilet paper roll that comes in the nano caches. You should use the space that the cache owner asks you to use or gives you to use.

 

3. Stumble back home and sign on and brag to everyone who will bother to read it how special you are for being able to find the cache. If you really liked the cache then brag on it and write a good long post that makes the owner want to go out and hide three more just like it. Tease the people who are thinking about going for the cache with stupid or silly "hints" that probably won't help them at all. If you didn't think the cache was worth going after and just downright disgusted you then just be polite and post TFTCTNLN. (We think its important to be polite down here in the deep south - most of us carry shotguns!) - JUST KIDDING ;)

 

Now what the guys who wrote the rules as they appear did was say the same thing I just said and not waste a bunch of space to do it. They should add a fourth rule for those of us who can't do it without permission:

 

Rule #4 - Have fun!

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tozainamboku-"I don't know how you (or any one) would know what most cachers do all the time? Did you actually do a survey?"
Actually the statistics that Groundspeak post (There are 623,933 active geocaches around the world, etc) and the cache logs are a good indicator. CrippledBlindSquirrel gets it as do most cachers. There is no reason to make this complicated. Feel free to disagree.

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tozainamboku-"I don't know how you (or any one) would know what most cachers do all the time? Did you actually do a survey?"
Actually the statistics that Groundspeak post (There are 623,933 active geocaches around the world, etc) and the cache logs are a good indicator. CrippledBlindSquirrel gets it as do most cachers. There is no reason to make this complicated. Feel free to disagree.

There are 623,933 active caches worldwide. In the last 7 days, there have been 480,989 new logs written by 64,602 account holders.

I'm trying to figure out how you know most cachers are logging their finds. 64,602 account holders wrote 480,989 logs online in the past 7 days. There is no number showing how many people found caches and did not log online. Since you have to have a geocaching account to get the coordinates, it may be that Groundspeak has a idea of how many people looked at cache pages in the past seven days and maybe they could make a wild guess as to how many of these people went to look for caches. My guess is that a lot more than 64,602 account holders looked up coordinates or had a PQ delivered and therefore may have looked for caches. There just isn't any way to to tell if any of these people did go caching if they don't log online. Back when you could view the coordinates without a geocaching.com account, I have no doubt that every weekend there were thousands of people who when to look for caches that didn't even have accounts and they certainly didn't log online. It may very well be that most people do log online.

 

I've gone caching with friends and family members that don't have accounts. If they have their own GPS, I'll give them coordinates to enter. If not we just go with my GPS. Most of them never log their finds online. (One did decide he liked geocaching, got an account a few weeks later and went and logged a cache he had found with me). I personally know of geocachers who don't log their finds online. They may log a note or a DNF to let cacher owners know if there is a problem. I know these people are active because I sometimes see their recent signature in the log book.

 

My objection to making it a "rule" to log your experience online, is that it is tells a lot of people that they are not following the rules. I don't really care if they account for only .1% of the geocachers, they ought to be allowed to play as they want. A suggestion to trade up is fine, a rule to do so is not. A warning that if you don't put enough of your name in the log book to be recoginizable, a cache owner decide to delete your online found it log would be OK. Then you can decide if you still want to log 'Found It' and take the risk that the owner is a puritan who checks logs. A suggestion to log online to share your experience and to let the cache owner and other cachers know the status of the cache is a really good idea, but it doesn't have to be a rule.

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My objection to making it a "rule" to log your experience online, is that it is tells a lot of people that they are not following the rules. I don't really care if they account for only .1% of the geocachers, they ought to be allowed to play as they want. A suggestion to trade up is fine, a rule to do so is not. A warning that if you don't put enough of your name in the log book to be recoginizable, a cache owner decide to delete your online found it log would be OK. Then you can decide if you still want to log 'Found It' and take the risk that the owner is a puritan who checks logs. A suggestion to log online to share your experience and to let the cache owner and other cachers know the status of the cache is a really good idea, but it doesn't have to be a rule.

 

 

Link

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My objection to making it a "rule" to log your experience online, is that it is tells a lot of people that they are not following the rules

 

When looking at the essence of geocaching, I would agree. However, I look at this like a business wanting people to visit their site, as they have always wanted this whole time.

 

I don't begrudge them that fact.

 

I just don't think they are taking a sharp right turn towards a more legalistic approach, just a bit of fine tuning.

 

I think little has changed. The allowed logs are still in the hands of the cache owner. The people who don't log on line knew that they were going against the grain already.

 

 

Edited for clarification

Edited by BlueDeuce

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tozainamboku-"I'm trying to figure out how you know most cachers are logging their finds. 64,602 account holders wrote 480,989 logs online in the past 7 days."
You may call those 'statistics'.
tozainamboku-"I've gone caching with friends and family members that don't have accounts. ...I personally know of geocachers who don't log their finds online...."
You may call that anecdotal evidence or hearsay.
tozainamboku-"...A suggestion to log online to share your experience and to let the cache owner and other cachers know the status of the cache is a really good idea, but it doesn't have to be a rule."
You are still free to do just that, 'lots' of muggles do. :unsure:

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I think I was out getting ice cream. :unsure:

 

:P On a rather warm muggy day in NC, me want'm Ice Cream too!! :D

 

This should show what I feel has a higher priority on my geocache rules / ice cream list.

 

Go out, have fun, live with the freedom of your choosings.

 

<Slurp> :ph34r:

 

-HHH

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I don't view this so much of a rule change but rather a rewording of what most cachers do all the time. There were folks that didn't like the old wording and there are those who will quibble with the new wording. I Believe it is clearer now but it doesn't affect what I do one bit.

I don't know how you (or any one) would know what most cachers do all the time? Did you actually do a survey? But let's just say that what is written is what most cachers do when the find a cache. Shouldn't the FAQ say

What are the rules in Geocaching?What do I do when I find a cache?

Most cachers do the following when they find a cache:

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

No you are twisting it. Most drivers stop when they come to a stop sign. Does that mean the vehicle code should say, When you come to a stop sign most drivers stop. No of course not. If you are trying to describe what most people do you would word it your way. If you are trying to say what people should do or must do then you would word it differently.

 

I can't help but wonder if you really don't understand the difference or are you just playing dumb so you can stir the pot.

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The funniest part of this to me is that this was probably just an innocent re-write of that section with no grand scheme in mind at all.

Sorta reminds me of the dropped-shoe scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian.

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I can't believe this is a debate. I started reading all of these posts but got tired of it. Maybe someone above me made the point I am going to make but here goes. If someone finds the cache, he found it, period. If that person is only counting in his own head then who are we to dispute it. If that person wants to boast about finding 10,000, let the boasting begin. What we count as official is not what the game is really about. It is about the search and the find. Let people find and log as they see fit. If they want documentation of their activities then they will sign the log and post it online. If the log is not deleted by the owner then it counts for statistical purposes only. I have a friend right heres in Fresno with 5250 plus logged online finds. His daughter was with him for most but no longer logs them online. She does not boast about the finds, but has found near 5,000 and I would not argue with her if she said how many. Everyone just get over themselves and worry about your own problems.

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If a cacher signs the paper log but doesn't log online, one can now prove he broke the rules ...

 

... and if a cacher opts not to sign the paper log yet logs his find online, you can bust him for that as well ...

 

... but what do you do if a cacher finds the cache, doesn't sign the paper log, and doesn't log online? How to punish this rogue cacher for flaunting the rules and playing the game his own way? Should the cache owner post a note documenting the find as a form of "anti-delete?" How does one even prove the scofflaw was ever there?

 

 

Not sure why, but this thread also reminds me of one of my favorite George Carlin 'evening news' bits:

 

"Medical researchers have discovered a new disease that has no symptoms. It is impossible to detect, and there is no known cure. Fortunately, no cases have been reported thus far."

Edited by KBI

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