What would you do?

[+KvPhoto]

I bought a coin on the eplace and tried to activate it only to find it is already activated and owned by someone else! I will admit the listing was not clear about it being unactivated but that it was trackable. I tried contacting the seller with my issue but have gotten no response. Should I contact the owner of the coin? I am not sure if the two are the same person.

[+ECplus3]

I would contact the owner of the coin to find out if they were also the seller.

 

If not, I would contact eBay support to report the sale of stolen goods. I would also contact paypal (if that was the method of payment) to try and get your money back. Then it is between you and the owner to decide what to do with the coin.

 

If the owner IS the seller, then you can at least request to adopt the coin from them.

[+RifleMan81]

I think I'd contact the owner of the coin to see if they are the ones that sold it on ebay. If not, then send a message to the seller requesting your money back. If they don't give you a refund, report them to ebay for selling stolen property. Give them a chance to make it right first though. Maybe they're new to caching and don't know the protocol. Who knows.

[+KvPhoto]

I have contacted both the owner and the seller, who could be the same but no news yet. I have purchased several now off ebay and this is the first problem one. Is it common practice to find stolen coins sold on ebay?

 

** Just checked out both profiles and they look to be the same person judging by the pictures. Wouldn't it have been appropriate to post in the listing it would have to be adopted?

 

Edited for addition

Edited July 29, 2008 by KvPhoto

[+Mauison]

I have contacted both the owner and the seller, who could be the same but no news yet. I have purchased several now off ebay and this is the first problem one. Is it common practice to find stolen coins sold on ebay?

 

** Just checked out both profiles and they look to be the same person judging by the pictures. Wouldn't it have been appropriate to post in the listing it would have to be adopted?

 

Edited for addition

 

It's not common to find stolen coins on eBay, a rarity if at all. Most times when an activated geocoin is sold, it's sold by the owner and it's clearly stated in the auction. Sometimes the seller will forget that they have activated the geocoin and will sell it as unactivated. Usually a couple of emails back and forth will clear up any misunderstanding. Hopefully that's what happened in your case and you can get it cleared up.

[+joranda]

If you spent alot on the coin and paid with paypal, I would contact them first like the others had said. They will get your money back for you, but don't wait too long on it.

[+KvPhoto]

It wasn't much, about $12 with shipping. It looks like it was last logged as a discovered in April of this year. Still waiting on a reply but wish I had known beforehand that it was going to need to be adopted.

[+Renegade Knight]

I bought a coin on the eplace and tried to activate it only to find it is already activated and owned by someone else! I will admit the listing was not clear about it being unactivated but that it was trackable. I tried contacting the seller with my issue but have gotten no response. Should I contact the owner of the coin? I am not sure if the two are the same person.

 

Work under the assumption that all is well and ask the owner to adopt over the coin. If they do, you are good. If they don't, now you have better information and can work from there.

[+4BOWS]

I had a very similar situation a couple of years ago. I was new to coin collecting and bought one off of E-bay that had been activated. It was not listed as being activated, and I never got a response from the seller or the owner. I didn't know what else to do at the time, so I've just held onto the coin. I just looked at the owner's caching profile, and she hasn't been active since 2006. Guess I'll just keep holding onto the coin since it can't be adopted out to me or anyone else. I guess i could send it out travelling.

[+LadyBee4T]

I would do what others have suggested. Contact both the seller of the coin and the owner. If they are the same person then ask for adoption. However, I do think they owe you something even if the total cost was only $12. They sold you something that wasn't as represented. I never or rarely pay the same price for an activated coin as I would for an unactivated one so you might not have bid the same.

 

If neither the owner nor the seller contacts you then I would report it to ebay and at the same time open a paypal dispute for my money back. You can file a dispute with paypal only for a certain number of days after payment and I'm not sure if that is 30 days or 45. Money may get their attention. If the time for filing with paypal has past then if you paid with a credit card through paypal then ask your credit card company for reimbursement

 

I one time sold an activated coin and didn't realize it. I had traded for it and never checked it because I rarely activate mine. He contacted me and in a few hours we had a plan. I felt foolish but in the end we made sure he was happy and he got an unactivated coin just like advertised. If your seller isn't contacting you that's not a good sign. I don't know how long its been but I wouldn't wait too long but consider if its been only a week that they may be out of town. But if this drags on and on and you have to file etc then consider negative feedback.

[avroair]

This just happened to me too, but on the other end. I sold a coin I traded for back in March, I knew it was activated, but had it adopted to me. When the new owner requested an adoption, the coin was listed as a third party I contacted the listed owner and he isn't sure how he adopted it. Trying to sort through the matter with both the buyer and the owner!

[+KvPhoto]

Ok, so the coin was sold to me by the owner apparently. I did say that I was disappointed that the coin was not listed as being adoptable. Had it been I would not have bid on it. Also, I requested a refund as I really don't want an adoptable coin in all honesty. The reply I got was after 20 days they would not issue a refund. I explained that I only discovered it when I attempted to activate it about 14 days after payment and 7 days after receiving it. The response I now get after any further requests for a refund and return is to provide my geocache name for adoption.

[+wesleykey]

BE SURE TO ASK RELEVANT QUESTIONS BEFORE BIDDING.

 

I have sold dozens of coins on Ebay, and have learned a lot. People will assume a coin is new, trackable, has an icon, whatever. The listing may never state this, but they assume away anyway.

[+KvPhoto]

All it said was that it was trackable. Typically I always check for the statement unactivated but this one eluded me. I would have expected some notification either via email after winning the bid or in the packaging with the coin that it had to be adopted. No, I only found out once I tried to activate it myself and then contacted the seller/owner to find out what was up with this. Is that not somewhat misleading? There obviously was no intention of notifying me that it had to be adopted. Am I wrong to pursue a return/refund?

[+MustangJoni]

All it said was that it was trackable. Typically I always check for the statement unactivated but this one eluded me. I would have expected some notification either via email after winning the bid or in the packaging with the coin that it had to be adopted. No, I only found out once I tried to activate it myself and then contacted the seller/owner to find out what was up with this. Is that not somewhat misleading? There obviously was no intention of notifying me that it had to be adopted. Am I wrong to pursue a return/refund?

If you like the coin, and were going to activate it anyway, I don't really see a problem with adopting it.

 

I see your point that you feel that the seller was a bit dishonest, but if you were going to activate it anyway, I don't see the harm in adopting it.

 

But if you really want a refund, you can file a paypal dispute if the seller refuses to give you your money back.

[+pghlooking]

If you like the coin, and were going to activate it anyway, I don't really see a problem with adopting it.

There is a history that goes with that coin. Cache logs and such. If you adopt it, the only way to have a fresh coin would be to delete all the logs which is unfair to the other people. I don't want to buy a coin like this.

 

I think a better thing to stop this practice is to call them out here. It's not an attack or anything. It is a fact and since it is, it is allowed here. Sometimes a public statement is the only thing to keep people from doing these things and other times it helps to get your money back.

[+KvPhoto]

If you like the coin, and were going to activate it anyway, I don't really see a problem with adopting it.

There is a history that goes with that coin. Cache logs and such. If you adopt it, the only way to have a fresh coin would be to delete all the logs which is unfair to the other people. I don't want to buy a coin like this.

 

I think a better thing to stop this practice is to call them out here. It's not an attack or anything. It is a fact and since it is, it is allowed here. Sometimes a public statement is the only thing to keep people from doing these things and other times it helps to get your money back.

 

I have been hesitant to call out the person in question only because I am not having this discussion to out them or give them a bad name. I am trying to get a feel for what is right and wrong in this situation in how to handle it. I have already filed a paypal dispute and am awaiting a response from them. Here is the coin page Forest Preserves Geocoin I did not want a coin with a history nor do I want to delete the logs of those who had already found/discovered it.

[avroair]

If you like the coin, and were going to activate it anyway, I don't really see a problem with adopting it.

There is a history that goes with that coin. Cache logs and such. If you adopt it, the only way to have a fresh coin would be to delete all the logs which is unfair to the other people. I don't want to buy a coin like this.

 

I disagree, the ownership transferred hands so the new owner has every right to delete any and all logs pertaining to the coin.

 

But I do think it's shoddy the owner mis-stated their listing. I would certainly bring it out in the forums since others might fall trap for this mal-practice.

[+pghlooking]

If you like the coin, and were going to activate it anyway, I don't really see a problem with adopting it.

There is a history that goes with that coin. Cache logs and such. If you adopt it, the only way to have a fresh coin would be to delete all the logs which is unfair to the other people. I don't want to buy a coin like this.

 

I disagree, the ownership transferred hands so the new owner has every right to delete any and all logs pertaining to the coin.

 

But I do think it's shoddy the owner mis-stated their listing. I would certainly bring it out in the forums since others might fall trap for this mal-practice.

Oh I agree he has the right to delete everything on the page, but why should the coin be sterilized and people lose their logs because of the shady seller? It put this person in a catch 22 situation. Glad it's not me in this situation.

[+KvPhoto]

So I have been trying to reasonably work this out with the seller but to no avail. I have escalated with Paypal to a claim and when I informed her of my intention to do so this was her reply.

"Do what you have to sweetie but you waited way past the 7 days on the auction and I will forward all the things to paypal that they need because yes I didnt not say it had to be adopted i didnt think it was a big deal.I will show them my feed back where ppl were happy to adopt coins and that you must do the refund with in 7 days and show when the auction ended.Jennifer"

 

Now I received it nearly 7 days after the auction ended and was unable to attempt to activate it until the following week. Had there been some type of communication before trying to activate from the seller about the adoption status I would have quickly returned it but I only found out by trying to activate it. I am running on principal at this point.

[+tsunrisebey]

I'm gonna guess that the odds are in your favor although you may have to go back and forth with paypal by jumping through the hoops.

 

Keep all your records of contact with the seller, so you can use them as proof for your case.

 

Escalate the claim.

 

Make a copy of the listing for your own records.

 

Geocoins are special and you may have explain this to get paypal to understand this concept but there is a huge difference to many people between activated and unactivated coins. Fact is, unactivated coins are 'pure' so to speak and worth more on a monetary level.

 

In my opinion, when the listing was put up you paid for what you thought was an unactivated coin. The seller did not state it was already activated. You got mechandise that was 'Not as Advertised.' The seller has the responsibility to notify buyers about every condition of the item they are selling. The seller admits they knew it was activated but didn't think it was important. So they failed to describe the full condition of the coin (knowingly).

 

You have 2 choices; 1. Continue the battle and fight for yourself or 2. Chalk it up to a lesson learned about sellers and take the coin as is.

 

If it were me, I would go through with the claim. I'd also be calling paypal and asking to speak with a manager. I've already gone rounds with paypal. You are the buyer and they side with the buyers most of the time.

 

I have no idea who the seller is but I'm assuming (at risk, I know) that most people who sell geocoins know that they should be putting 'activated coin' in their listing. I have seen different tactics used by sellers that really tick me off because it is deceitfulness in the effort to make a buck. I can remember a vendor (I won't say the name) who was selling a V2 coin but posted a picture of the V1 Artist Edition coin. I got a bunch of emails asking me what coin the seller was selling. 1.) I know this person didn't have that coin because all of the AE coins were gifted or charity autcions (I knew who had them) and this person did not have one. So, I had to contact the seller and ask them what coin they were selling to answer other people's questions on an auction i had nothing to do with. Long story short... the seller/vendor lied to me 5 times in emails and I kept getting more mad (lol). They tried to play stupid and finally I got them to pull the picture and put the right one up (not to mention they used my picture on my website). That wasn't the first time they did this. I've also watch people tweak photos to make them look like a different metal than what they are and their desciptions are vague of the coin. I KNOW some of those people are attempting to get people who are less informed thinking they are getting something they are not. I see that kind of dishonesty and I cringe. I now watermark my pictures so people can't abuse the photos and listings and the sad part is; I was always happy to let people use my mint photos because most people can't take a good picture of translucent coins. Ok, done with rant, lol.

 

I say stand up for yourself and even in the end if things should not go your way, you took a stand and that counts for something in my book.

Edited August 9, 2008 by tsunrisebey

[+KvPhoto]

 

I say stand up for yourself and even in the end if things should not go your way, you took a stand and that counts for something in my book.

 

Thanks. I appreciate the support and advice. I have put the claim through with paypal and will see what the response is. I was really annoyed by the last reply from the seller, I am no one's swettie! lol I do chalk this up to a lessoned learned though.

[RedShoesGirl]

 

I say stand up for yourself and even in the end if things should not go your way, you took a stand and that counts for something in my book.

 

Thanks. I appreciate the support and advice. I have put the claim through with paypal and will see what the response is. I was really annoyed by the last reply from the seller, I am no one's swettie! lol I do chalk this up to a lessoned learned though.

 

good for you. Sweetie indeed. how dismissive, how disrespectful! i call people sugar, honey, sweetie, when i am being fun and cute, not in the middle of a dispute! well, unless i am being dismissive or disrespectful.

 

share the name privately if you wish, even though i am winding down active coin collecting, i still buy on ebay ocasionaly, occoassionally, occasionely - oh heck, once in a while.

 

rsg

[gridlox]

What would "I" do?

 

After looking at the coin's page and seeing that there is only "one" log to the coin where it was "discovered" at an event (3 if you want to count the original owner and the current owner's logs to process an adoption), I would adopt the coin, send an email to the "one" lonely cacher to log it "discovered" explaining that you'd adopted it and were deleting all previous logs to start it fresh, and send it out on it's way. And go about enjoying my life.

 

I'd just consider it one of those little harsh life lessons to be a bit more careful in bidding in the online auctions. To read the descriptions more careful and to use the feedback features to get answers to stuff I was unsure about.

 

Is getting this worked up over a $8 (+s/h) coin really worth it?

 

D-man

[avroair]

If you like the coin, and were going to activate it anyway, I don't really see a problem with adopting it.

There is a history that goes with that coin. Cache logs and such. If you adopt it, the only way to have a fresh coin would be to delete all the logs which is unfair to the other people. I don't want to buy a coin like this.

 

I disagree, the ownership transferred hands so the new owner has every right to delete any and all logs pertaining to the coin.

 

But I do think it's shoddy the owner mis-stated their listing. I would certainly bring it out in the forums since others might fall trap for this mal-practice.

Oh I agree he has the right to delete everything on the page, but why should the coin be sterilized and people lose their logs because of the shady seller? It put this person in a catch 22 situation. Glad it's not me in this situation.

 

Yeah the situation does suck, disclosure would have been nice up front.

[TheNumber1Bop]

If the auction listed the coin as trackable (and I assume it is) but had no reference as to whether it was activated or unactivated, then maybe a click on the "ask seller a question" link might have been in order. The seller did nothing wrong if they didn't list it as unactivated. You bid on the auction and bought the coin assuming that it was unactivated. If it wasn't listed as such, you should have asked.

[+KvPhoto]

If the auction listed the coin as trackable (and I assume it is) but had no reference as to whether it was activated or unactivated, then maybe a click on the "ask seller a question" link might have been in order. The seller did nothing wrong if they didn't list it as unactivated. You bid on the auction and bought the coin assuming that it was unactivated. If it wasn't listed as such, you should have asked.

 

That is correct and I've said that I usually never bid on anything unless its states unactivated. This one got past me. Still the point of the matter now is that the seller at no point in time informed me that I had to adopt this coin. Not after winning it, not when it was shipping and not when I received the shipment. At some point in the purchasing/shipping process there should have been some type of communication about the need to adopt it, especially before the 7 day return window was expired!

[TheNumber1Bop]

I understand what you're saying, but you purchased strictly a coin, that's all. If nothing was implied on the auction page, such as adoptable, activated or unactivated..then the seller was strictly selling a coin. You can't win an auction and then try to enforce your terms. Maybe the seller had in mind just to sell a coin, nothing else. After the fact, it seems she's willing to adopt it out to you, which really she wouldn't have to do. I agree it's not what you apparently wanted..but you bid on the item without getting the details. That's not the sellers mistake.

[+larry739]

After reading this whole string it makes me sad to see someone has such a low regard for their own reputation as a seller not to do whatever is possible to make sure their customer is a happy satisfied buyer. Why do some people have such a low regard for their own reputation that they would sell it so cheaply? Sweetie needs to get some manners if she wants to keep selling things on-line.

[+maldar]

There are many good points here for both sides. Ask the seller a question, Seller should have been up-front, and the like. Having sold items on eBay on-and-off since 2002(?) I have always gone out of my way to do right by the customer, even go so far as to agree to a lower amount on a dutch auction as the buyer didn't understand how they worked. How do we know that the seller didn't hold back the item from shipping so they could avoid the 7 day return period. 7 days is way too short for me and I don't post any return policy. I figure that the buyer can contact me and we can work the issue out. It has worked thus far.

 

I really hope you come out on top.

 

maldar

[+KvPhoto]

Still waiting to hear from Paypal, they have contacted the seller for her side of the story. I will let you all know what comes of it.

[+Team Gingerbread]

The seller obviously does not know paypal rules. You have 45 days to file a claim not 7.

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

This is the oddest thing to me.

 

If I am the seller, e-bay or otherwise I think it is my job to offer full disclosure. If I don't the buyer should have the right to bail out of the deal. To not disclose that a trackable coin is activated is either an oversight or an attempt to be misleading by omission. If an oversight, then the seller should gladly unravel the transaction. Otherwise . . . . well it sort of makes me wonder.

 

It is particularly puzzling to me that a seller would be so hard nosed over such a small amount of money. I suspect that through Paypal you will prevail. It is just too bad that it has to come to this.

 

My Thoughts . . .

[+Gobbs]

I was just reading the forum to get a feel for how things work with my new discovery of geocaching when I ran across this thread and couldn't resist posting.

 

Sure, as the buyer, you have certain responsibilities and are taking certain risks, but the seller definitely has a responsibility to be forthcoming about the condition of any item being sold, whether that be a coin, a car, furniture, etc. So, for what it's worth, you are both at fault to a certain degree. However, your fault is simply one of not performing due diligence when making a purchase. The seller's fault is false and/or misleading advertisement. The seller, either accidentally or deliberately, did not disclose the condition of the item in which he/she was selling. Therefore, the seller should have the responsibility of making the purchase right.

 

At any rate, win, lose, or draw on the dispute, I like that you went through with it. Sure, it's only $8, but even if you lose, look at it that you spent $8 for an education that may come in handy in the future and at least you have a coin to show for your trouble. Hopefully, this situation will help you prevent future encounters like this, but even if you do all your homework, it could still happen. So, then you can fall back on the education you are receiving and be better prepaed when you are talking significant dollars.

 

Good luck and keep posting.

 

Gobbs

Edited August 12, 2008 by Gobbs