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Was testing completely skipped before this release?


Pengana

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Home page was a huge improvement... I see good attempts on about 3 (three) pages to make them more attractive and user friendly... especially for newbies.

 

The rest of the site... Oh my gosh! :laughing:

 

From design to functionality it is a mess.

 

After 5 minutes of testing I have to wonder....

did anyone on the development team actually test the changes?

 

And in case you're wondering what obscure, rebel browser and monitor setting I have

I'm on Internent Explorer 7.0, Windows XP Professional, and my resolution is 1024 x 768

 

I'm all for ungrades and changes...

But this release ... there are no words.

I might make a list later... but for now I see everyone else's lists will keep you busy for quite a while

 

Pengana

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After 5 minutes of testing I have to wonder....

did anyone on the development team actually test the changes?

Pengana

 

Very useful input. I'm sure Groundspeak is thankful for your opinion. :laughing:

 

I, for one, am glad to see that many bugs are being worked as we speak and I love the new look.

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After 5 minutes of testing I have to wonder....

did anyone on the development team actually test the changes?

Pengana

 

Very useful input. I'm sure Groundspeak is thankful for your opinion. :laughing:

 

I, for one, am glad to see that many bugs are being worked as we speak and I love the new look.

 

Here here.........think the work the Groundspeak team are doing is great.

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After 5 minutes of testing I have to wonder....

did anyone on the development team actually test the changes?

Pengana

 

Very useful input. I'm sure Groundspeak is thankful for your opinion. :laughing:

 

I, for one, am glad to see that many bugs are being worked as we speak and I love the new look.

 

Here here.........think the work the Groundspeak team are doing is great.

 

Where, Where??

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

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Someone should close this thread - it appears to serve no purpose.

 

If you have something constructive to say then say it.. what's the sense in belly aching!?

 

My 2 cents..

Had the OP stated his criticism more constructively this thread could have served a purpose.

 

No one should expect Groundspeak to be a CMMI level 5 organization. They're not even a level 2. They have a small programming staff and a management staff that admits to their programming experiences being more of hobby.

 

Initially the site was put together and maintained by hobbyist and they would add features one at a time as they developed then. Eventually, the size of the code base grew - along with the number of users. The hobbyist started to need professional help in running the site and they ended up hiring consultants and a full-time programming staff. They are still in the early stages of learning how to manage this kind of development.

 

Currently, I would guess that the programmers are responsible for checking out their own code. Perhaps there is a small group of beta testers among the non programming staff that tries out the new code but I doubt that is their full-time responsibility. I know when Waymarking was rolled out, they had a slightly bigger beta test group that consisted mostly of the volunteer reviewers who were given early access to that site. Eventually, Waymarking was released as a beta product to premium Groundspeak members who found a lot of bugs and more importantly gave a lot of input on how to improve that site.

 

One possibility is to create a testing website - www.testgeocaching.com and invite members to volunteer as beta testers before a release. The problem may be the amount of hardware needed to replicate the database.

 

As it stands now, the Groundspeak programming staff is probably making their best effort to checkout their code changes before releasing them. Once they are pretty confident that there won't be any big issues they role it out knowing that once it gets to the full community somebody will find something that is not working quite right. Then they fix these problems as quickly as possible. In the past there have been few real show stoppers. In those cases, Groundspeak has quickly rolled code back to before the changes so that geocachers can continue to use the site.

 

This last release may have has a few more changes than some recent releases, but I think the real reason there are so many comments being posted is the redesign of the cache pages. Some functions got moved around a bit and people who are used to where they used to be are complaining. They will get use to the new organization soon enough. Some functions which didn't work properly for everyone before have been removed or changed. So people are complaining that they took something away. According to Groundspeak, the plan is to reinstate this functionality when it finally gets fixed. One of the problems would probably not have been found during testing anyway. The problem with GoogeBe Maps not being able to find certain addresses seems to be due to an increase in the number of people using this feature (as it was moved to the home page) and Google having a limit on the number of queries it would accept from a site. While I would complain if Google or eBay released an update like this, I think for the type of organization that Groundspeak has, they are doing a good job.

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Someone should close this thread - it appears to serve no purpose.

 

If you have something constructive to say then say it.. what's the sense in belly aching!?

 

My 2 cents..

 

I complain because I liked the system the way it was. (And, of course, I like to complain. :laughing: ) I haven't seen anything useful added (Of course, they're probably where I cannot see them.) But some things that I depended on are now gone, or not working properly.

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I feel this thread is needed to give those people who do not have any problems with anything that could be construed as fixable, a place to talk and confer about the look and feel of the new updates. This will free up the other thread for the "fixable problems", because as we know all to well, the look is not going to change back.

 

They must have had some reason for all of the "look" changes and we will get used to them as we have in the past. (at least the colors are not garish). I just do not care much for any change anymore. I am the type who expounds that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" But, it is nothing that I can't get used to if they will just get the functionality back.

 

Some functions are not working either overall or at least not in some browsers. We are still using the old FF version and cannot get to any of the buttons nor links on the left hand side of any cache or benchmark or map pages. Even our own caches with short names will not click in FF on "Our cache list". But, we do still have Internet Ex. 7 and can access most with that. I am confident that the programmers will fix the annoyances later if not sooner.

 

So, I have gotten that off my shoulders and anyone else is welcome to come to this thread to cry, b!tch and moan instead of the FIX-IT thread where just the real problems should be posted for those who can do the Fixing.

 

Now this is more than my 2 cents, it is money.gif

 

Shirley~

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A few notes about my earlier post:

 

1) the topic of the thread is THE GEOCACHING.COM web site. My post was relevant.

2) I stated that there were already enough details about problems to keep the developers busy.

(I didn't feel I needed to add my list of 100 items. I just wanted to voice my opinion of the new site)

 

I think geocaching has gotten to the point where we've outgrown a volunteer run site, or a small group of overworked developers. Times are tough financially for many - but I'm all for raising the rates a little all around if thats what it will take. We must have a working web site. This isn't golf!

 

I know people are working hard and adding new features.

Yes, there will always be something to add or fix or complain about -- I understand that.

But after just a few minutes on the new site... and checking the forums I was pretty amazed by the exent of the problems. (again, both design AND functionality).

 

Thank you to the other posters who suggested we actually do have a right to voice ovarall opinions.

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I can no longer print the cache page after this release. 1/3 of the left side of the page is missing. I've looked at changing to landscape, scaling, etc. No matter what size I print it cuts off the left side of the page.

 

Thanks. I've raised this question several times, and gotten absolutely no mention that a fix for this major bug is even being considered. Makes me feel that if you're not paperless, you're lower than whale poop.

If it doesn't need fixing, why break it? But, it's broken now.

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Could Groundspeak please, please, PLEASE fix the dang printing problem ASAP? It is so hard to work puzzle caches without a printed sheet to work from. :rolleyes:

 

If this is a problem, please turn back the clock to the previous version. The intention for the new look was noble, but the execution flat out sucks.

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Please post to the Release Notes thread if you have a specific question or comment about the site changes. There's no assurance that your input will be read by the site developers if posted to this thread.

 

This thread is for discussing pre-release testing. The answer to the question is yes, there was testing.

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I can no longer print the cache page after this release. 1/3 of the left side of the page is missing. I've looked at changing to landscape, scaling, etc. No matter what size I print it cuts off the left side of the page.

 

Thanks. I've raised this question several times, and gotten absolutely no mention that a fix for this major bug is even being considered. Makes me feel that if you're not paperless, you're lower than whale poop.

If it doesn't need fixing, why break it? But, it's broken now.

Your answer is here waiting for you to discover it. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...p;#entry3574212

 

It was also covered in the thread about the changes to the site.

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What the hell, they're doing?

 

Have all people left the project who knows webdevelopment?

I have programmed many things - but something like that,. my boss would fire me.

 

- positioning problems in cachelistings

- size and positioning problems in picture galleries (because of big-size-pictures galleries get a width of 2000px and more)

- CSS definitions killed (links are in "normal/undefined" standard colours)

 

with using the new mailing and coding system, you see things like

W& #252;rzburg  (without the blank)

in emails. Very readable. The same problem you have, when you're using tools like GSAK.. GSAK fetches the ID another time for a "new user", although it's the same. Why? Because of the entities, it gets back

 

Best idea was: "lets use base64"

 

coool... my mobile email system gets often a problem with it, so I have to fetch the emails several times, until i can read it.

 

If looking at home into the source code - what Do I see?

 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Message-Id: <20080726093733.3135A9F962@signal.Groundspeak.com>
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 

Are you crazy? email means: information, plain text, readable all the time. I use everytime 7bit ascii. No german special chars. For information exchange you only need 7 bit. Something like that above you don't need. Something like that only implies overhead. Groundspeak and geocaching.com are english speaking websites. So I think, 7 bit ascii would be enough.

 

with all that I answer the question of the posting for myself: yes, they skipped it, because they don't know what "testing" stands for

Edited by widdi
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Home page was a huge improvement... I see good attempts on about 3 (three) pages to make them more attractive and user friendly... especially for newbies.

 

The rest of the site... Oh my gosh! :o

 

From design to functionality it is a mess.

 

After 5 minutes of testing I have to wonder....

did anyone on the development team actually test the changes?

 

And in case you're wondering what obscure, rebel browser and monitor setting I have

I'm on Internent Explorer 7.0, Windows XP Professional, and my resolution is 1024 x 768

 

I'm all for ungrades and changes...

But this release ... there are no words.

I might make a list later... but for now I see everyone else's lists will keep you busy for quite a while

 

Pengana

 

I feel your pain. We bought a new computer about 3 weeks ago. So, we've been installing the latest & greatest versions of software we use. OMG! I swear I was beta testing everything I touched. And with so many new apps, it was impossible to figure out where the problems were. I honestly uninstalled some of the new versions & went back to older versions for now.

 

I was having the same conversation with DH. (Both of us have computer backgrounds.) I asked him if anyone tests their work or do they just release it & wait for everyone else to tell them what's not working.

 

Luckily, for me (I guess) I haven't had tons of time to play with the new GC look, so I can't beta test this site. I'm busy still working out issues with Outlook (among other things) since I can't figure out what went screwy moving over some data.

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One possibility is to create a testing website - www.testgeocaching.com and invite members to volunteer as beta testers before a release. The problem may be the amount of hardware needed to replicate the database.

This is commonly done simply by setting a switch so that users who so choose get the beta version. Both old and new sets of pages and templates have to be stored on each server, but that's generally very small compared with the database, which in this scheme does not have to be replicated. (In any case, in many modern systems, the database is on a back-end server and not affected by front-end changes.)

 

The number of bugs reported is actually quite small for a major release. The noise generated is because some of those bugs affect some users very seriously.

 

These changes did not need to be all in one big release. There are arguments for consolidated releases like this, especially the ability to test all combinations for interactions, which just isn't feasible when you release little bits at a time. OTOH, a lot of the changes had a great deal of independence from one another, and releasing them individually would have made it easier to provide timely fixes. Groundspeak may have been able to do better testing on the consolidated release, but the number of bugs which the consolidated release made possible overwhelmed them. Such a small shop needs to consider their exposure from putting out large releases.

 

In one posting, Nate mentioned something about having moved to standard-conforming HTML. This is a great idea, but unfortunately they aren't even close. A run-of-the-mill cache page generates over 60 errors using http://validator.w3.org, which isn't even particularly picky. This is down from 300 a couple of days ago, so either they've been working on it or else testing random pages yields inconsistent results. It's very likely that a lot of the formatting problems (both on screen and in print) are due to browsers operating in quirks mode to try to handle the HTML errors. A big lesson that Groundspeak needs to learn is that they will reduce their exposure enormously by going to totally standard-conforming HTML. And this is even easy to test, almost trivial.

 

Lots of users certainly still use Internet Explorer; many use Firefox; others use Opera, Safari, and several of the others. (Is gc.com usable via lynx? I haven't tried.) Groundspeak can't test all browsers. But that's again where standard-conforming HTML (and CSS and JS) comes in. Most of the browser-specific errors are in quirks mode. Going standard vastly reduces the browser differences.

 

Edward

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I'm sure this may not be the place for my post, but my dues ARE paid. Is it possible with all the reorganization going on that the developers could lose are numbers, e.g. cache finds,cache hides? Haven't seen this topic anywhere in the forums. :o

 

Yes, it is also possible that a tidal wave could destroy the Groundspeak office but both are VERY unlikely. The site is backed up so even a major oops would not lose your counts. Id worry more about the tidal wave then losing your counts due to a developer oops.

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I'm sure this may not be the place for my post, but my dues ARE paid. Is it possible with all the reorganization going on that the developers could lose are numbers, e.g. cache finds,cache hides? Haven't seen this topic anywhere in the forums. :o

 

Yes, it is also possible that a tidal wave could destroy the Groundspeak office but both are VERY unlikely. The site is backed up so even a major oops would not lose your counts. Id worry more about the tidal wave then losing your counts due to a developer oops.

 

Thanks, Mike

 

Communication works

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