Caches requiring special equipment

[+clinton.thompson]

When a cacher stumbles on a cache that requires one to have special equipment such as climbing gear is it fair to say that that type of cache is out of reach for the everyday cacher and should those types of caches be allowed in the general caching community?

 

What if someone were to attempt the cache and succeeded in solving all the puzzles etc, and found the container but couldn't reach it due to the fact that that person isn't a rock climber or an arborist, would that still qualify as a smiley even though the log book wasn't signed?

 

What is the communties take on this matter?

[+meralgia]

as mentioned in the forums before, nobody is twisting your arm to find every cache out there. play at your own risk. cache owner is allowed to delete smileys if the name isn't in the log book, but you can always speak directly to them and ask.

Edited July 24, 2008 by meralgia

[+flask]

unless you find the cache and sign the logbook, you didn't find it.

 

the evidence that this sort of cache is generally accepted is that the cache rating guidelines take this sort of cache into account: if you need rock climbing equipment or scuba gear or a boat or such the terrain rating is supposed to be a 5.

 

and no, you don't get to log it just because you can't reach it. in such a cache the whole point is that you need to find a way to get to it.

[+Firespinner]

When a cacher stumbles on a cache that requires one to have special equipment such as climbing gear is it fair to say that that type of cache is out of reach for the everyday cacher and should those types of caches be allowed in the general caching community?

 

What if someone were to attempt the cache and succeeded in solving all the puzzles etc, and found the container but couldn't reach it due to the fact that that person isn't a rock climber or an arborist, would that still qualify as a smiley even though the log book wasn't signed?

 

What is the communties take on this matter?

 

I think they are absolutely still valid caches and should be +a part of the general cache community! And, I don't think you can count the smiley if you didn't sign the log. If you can't do a 5 star terrain rating, then dont start out going for it in the first place. (I know I can't do terrain more than about a 3, so I don't attempt the harder ones). It wouldn't be fair to count them if you didn't sign the log.

 

As to the need for special equipment or skills, that is what the star rating is for....a one star is usually paved/wheelchair accessable....a five star means you better have some equipment and be in good physical condition. Some people use caching as a way to get excercise or add extra enjoyment to their other outdoor hobbies (mountain climbing, scuba diving..etc).

 

The cache page usually will tell you if you need climbing gear, scuba gear, etc. If there are puzzles to figure out first, it should be specified somewhere in those puzzles if you will need gear or not. Basically, I think most cache owners are pretty straight forward in telling you if you will need special equipment. If you dont' want to hunt something that hard, then dont, but it should still be available for those who do want the added challenge.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Firespinner

[+Cache U Nutter]

Good Evening from Surrey, England.

I have an bookmark listing 'Extreme caches' listing these type of challenging caches in the UK.

http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...ae-e0f56c7c6c5c

[this may not work as we are having real problems with links since the recent upgrade]

I have to say I have seen a number of requests from cachers that the 'cache is too dangerous and should not be allowed' or could the cache please be moved within reach as I am only 5 ft 4ins !

You know what.... WORDS FAIL ME !!!!!

[+trainlove]

There is no excuse for ignorance.

If one downloads every cache that his GPS can hold and attempts to do each of them without reading their cache page then they are up the creek when it comes to it being impossible for them to actually do a specific cache. You wouldn't try to do an Earth cacheor Virtual without reading it's "requirements" first right?

I for one would not want every cache in the world to be a lamp post cache, and I try to read every cache page before I go there, while being a Premium Member I would bring my Palm PDA with me with every cache on it.

[+Renegade Knight]

When a cacher stumbles on a cache that requires one to have special equipment such as climbing gear is it fair to say that that type of cache is out of reach for the everyday cacher and should those types of caches be allowed in the general caching community?

 

The cache is open for anyone in the general community to find. Since anyone can take the rock climbing lessons needed, it's fair to list it.

 

What if someone were to attempt the cache and succeeded in solving all the puzzles etc, and found the container but couldn't reach it due to the fact that that person isn't a rock climber or an arborist, would that still qualify as a smiley even though the log book wasn't signed?...

 

In this case they have solved all but the last part of the puzzle. Retrieving the cache. It's not a find. I would have no qualms about finding an arborist who will retrieve the cache and hand it to me.

[+ReZappers]

As a rock climber, I'm thrilled that there are 5 star caches that I am qualified to get to... makes me feel special, and such caches should be reserved for those who have taken the time to acquire the technical knowledge to retrieve it.

 

Then again, there are 5 star caches that involve going underwater, and there's no way you're going to get this non-swimmer to look for those - leave that to those who are qualified. I don't mind that I can't get those and I wouldn't feel entitled to have anyone make it easier for me to log a find for those.

 

We don't have to dumb down the ratings - if you can't do a 5 star terrain cache or if you're not qualified technically, then don't do it! It's OK to miss a few!

[+WebChimp]

What if someone were to attempt the cache and succeeded in solving all the puzzles etc,.................would that still qualify as a smiley even though the log book wasn't signed?

 

Nope.

[+WebChimp]

Darn duplicate post.

Edited July 25, 2008 by WebChimp

[knowschad]

When a cacher stumbles on a cache that requires one to have special equipment such as climbing gear is it fair to say that that type of cache is out of reach for the everyday cacher and should those types of caches be allowed in the general caching community?

 

What if someone were to attempt the cache and succeeded in solving all the puzzles etc, and found the container but couldn't reach it due to the fact that that person isn't a rock climber or an arborist, would that still qualify as a smiley even though the log book wasn't signed?

 

What is the communties take on this matter?

 

Caches that require specialized equipment/skills (rock climbing, SCUBA, boats, 4WD, etc) should carry a terrain rating of five stars (see the first question on this rating site that is recommended when you create a new cache. If you answer Yes to that question, and leave everything else alone, it will recomment a D/T rating of 1/5 ). These caches have been around for a long time, and deserve to be around.

 

Others have already correctly stated that simply seeing a cache is not Finding it in the official sense.

[AZcachemeister]

There is no excuse for ignorance.

If one downloads every cache that his GPS can hold and attempts to do each of them without reading their cache page then they are up the creek when it comes to it being impossible for them to actually do a specific cache. You wouldn't try to do an Earth cacheor Virtual without reading it's "requirements" first right?

I for one would not want every cache in the world to be a lamp post cache, and I try to read every cache page before I go there, while being a Premium Member I would bring my Palm PDA with me with every cache on it.

 

There ya go!

I am totally against the 'load-and-go' crowd. If they have to learn the hard way, then so be it. I wrote that cache page to be read, and provided the necessary details for a reason.

[+lrosell]

When a cacher stumbles on a cache that requires one to have special equipment such as climbing gear is it fair to say that that type of cache is out of reach for the everyday cacher and should those types of caches be allowed in the general caching community?

 

What if someone were to attempt the cache and succeeded in solving all the puzzles etc, and found the container but couldn't reach it due to the fact that that person isn't a rock climber or an arborist, would that still qualify as a smiley even though the log book wasn't signed?

 

What is the communties take on this matter?

 

You have to sign the cache log or it's no find. Logging on gc.com is just gravy.

 

A friend of mine have a cache that you have to be 8 feet tall to reach, someone posted a Found IT but also said that they could not sign the log because they were not tall enough. My friend replied nicely that signing the log is required and deleted the log. I too have a cache that may be hard to actually get to, depending on how agile you are. If I were to find that someone signed online but not in the cache log the online log would be deleted.

 

It's really a nobrainer.

[Tahosa and Sons]

Research before you go. Read the logs, study the hider see what they have hidden. A 5 star terrain is not always with equpment or special gear. Some are just physically hard to do, there is more to a mountain cache than a stroll in a park.

[+Cache U Nutter]

Yesterday I completed 3 'extreme' caches in the U.K

No special equipment was required for any of the challenges but they all involved clambering around bridges with quite a fall into a river if a mistake was made.

In two of the caches, I was suprised to see so many names that had logged the cache and upon further investigation it was revealed that most of them had not actually got to the cache !

They had merely been in a large group that had turned up for the challenge and only one person had actually retrieved the cache and came back down for everyone else to sign !

their contributions being 'I shone the torch' or 'I drove the car,supplied the pen etc '

Quite frankly THEY DID NOT GET THE CACHE and the should not have logged the cache on the system.

 

I have a cache that involves a tight 'squeeze' and then a vertical climb. I have clearly marked in the attributes that it is not safe for children. What does he do but send his kid up on his own to get the cache [very exposed jump required at the top of a 80ft high chimney[ whilst he barked instructions from the ground]

What does he do but log the cache under his own name and then become abusive when I deleted it as in my opinion he did'nt find the cache and his son did'nt have an acount [he said I was being fatist as he was too large to squeeze through the hole at the start!]

I despair !!!!

[4wheelin_fool]

When a cacher stumbles on a cache that requires one to have special equipment such as climbing gear is it fair to say that that type of cache is out of reach for the everyday cacher and should those types of caches be allowed in the general caching community?

 

Those are my favorite caches.

 

What if someone were to attempt the cache and succeeded in solving all the puzzles etc, and found the container but couldn't reach it due to the fact that that person isn't a rock climber or an arborist, would that still qualify as a smiley even though the log book wasn't signed?

 

If you want to annoy the cache owner, then yes. Otherwise, I'd say it would be more fun to log a find on a cache that you placed yourself, that way no one gets hurt.

 

Why would you want to try to find a cache that you know you cannot find? Nobody on the planet can find all the caches that are in place, as there are so many now. Many have tried, but it is a long, slow process..

[4wheelin_fool]

Yesterday I completed 3 'extreme' caches in the U.K

No special equipment was required for any of the challenges but they all involved clambering around bridges with quite a fall into a river if a mistake was made.

In two of the caches, I was suprised to see so many names that had logged the cache and upon further investigation it was revealed that most of them had not actually got to the cache !

They had merely been in a large group that had turned up for the challenge and only one person had actually retrieved the cache and came back down for everyone else to sign !

their contributions being 'I shone the torch' or 'I drove the car,supplied the pen etc '

Quite frankly THEY DID NOT GET THE CACHE and the should not have logged the cache on the system.

They did not have the same fun that you had either. Teamwork is generally accepted logging practice, though the level that you mentioned is questionable. I would just laugh them off as "posers".

 

I have a cache that involves a tight 'squeeze' and then a vertical climb. I have clearly marked in the attributes that it is not safe for children. What does he do but send his kid up on his own to get the cache [very exposed jump required at the top of a 80ft high chimney[ whilst he barked instructions from the ground]

What does he do but log the cache under his own name and then become abusive when I deleted it as in my opinion he did'nt find the cache and his son did'nt have an acount [he said I was being fatist as he was too large to squeeze through the hole at the start!]

I despair !!!!

 

I would say, depending on the age of the kid, what he did was definitely wrong. Unless, of course the kid was equipped with safety gear and was a trained climber. There are some young kids that can safely do incredible climbs nowadays.

 

But you really should have left the log on the page. If he was doing it safely,I'd say it would be OK as a team effort, as it was his son.

 

If not, then it is a clear example of child abuse and is evidence.

 

 

[he said I was being fatist as he was too large to squeeze through the hole at the start!]

 

 

Discrimination against fat people is a serious problem nowadays, but it really is not "fatist" unless you delete the log just because you know they are fat, or you dislike fat people.

 

If they cannot reach the cache because they are fat, remember, then it is them, who is being "fatist".

Edited July 26, 2008 by 4wheelin_fool

[+briansnat]

...should those types of caches be allowed in the general caching community?

 

Yes.

 

What if someone were to attempt the cache and succeeded in solving all the puzzles etc, and found the container but couldn't reach it due to the fact that that person isn't a rock climber or an arborist, would that still qualify as a smiley even though the log book wasn't signed?

 

No.

[+flask]

 

their contributions being 'I shone the torch' or 'I drove the car,supplied the pen etc '

Quite frankly THEY DID NOT GET THE CACHE and the should not have logged the cache on the system.

 

what if my contribution is "i belayed the guy who retrieved the container"?

[+CCrew]

 

what if my contribution is "i belayed the guy who retrieved the container"?

 

I would consider that a find personally. I certainly have no issue with another person as safety present and also taking credit.

 

We cache as a family. We have almost all of Vinny and Sue's "Psycho Urban" caches done barring the last two, and we're 2 stages into one of them. It's myself and my wife and two very athletic children. Are you saying by your rules, since my daughter (who is very small for her age) makes the crawl in a tunnel since she's best adept at it that we shouldn't be allowed to claim a find?. When our profile clearly states we're a family? It's really no different barring that we're related (although we do all log under a single account) Would it make it different if all the family members had their own accounts?

 

Can slice and dice this a lot of ways, but I have no issues with team caching.

 

-R

Edited July 27, 2008 by CCrew

[+The Find Its]

 

what if my contribution is "i belayed the guy who retrieved the container"?

 

I would consider that a find personally. I certainly have no issue with another person as safety present and also taking credit.

 

We cache as a family. We have almost all of Vinny and Sue's "Psycho Urban" caches done barring the last two, and we're 2 stages into one of them. It's myself and my wife and two very athletic children. Are you saying by your rules, since my daughter (who is very small for her age) makes the crawl in a tunnel since she's best adept at it that we shouldn't be allowed to claim a find?. When our profile clearly states we're a family? It's really no different barring that we're related (although we do all log under a single account) Would it make it different if all the family members had their own accounts?

 

Can slice and dice this a lot of ways, but I have no issues with team caching.

 

-R

A couple of thoughts,

 

I think if you are a family who generally cache together I think a find is a find no matter which member actually touches the container first, as long as there are not multiple finds logged by the members.

 

If the log is not found and signed the "Find" did not happen.

 

We cache as a family and share our finds. If one of my daughters finds the cache (sometimes with much assistance and hints from either my wife or myself) or if I find it and retrieve it because neither of my two young girls can reach it we log it as a find by The Find Its.

I am a rock climber and was actually out in the Squamish area today thinking some of the areas I saw would make great 5 star caches and if you could not get to the cache you would need to either find a way or find another cache.

Its a great game and should not be taken too seriously. If you want to count one you couldn't reach as a find do so in your mind with all the pride of finding the cache placement and find one you can reach to sign.

- G

[+Cache U Nutter]

 

their contributions being 'I shone the torch' or 'I drove the car,supplied the pen etc '

Quite frankly THEY DID NOT GET THE CACHE and the should not have logged the cache on the system.

 

what if my contribution is "i belayed the guy who retrieved the container"?

 

That would be fine if you then changed position and replaced the cache whilst your partner belayed you.

Otherwise you are only decieving yourself that you have reached the cache and in many respects devalueing the standard and quality of the cache which clearly was put up by the owner intending it to be obtained by the methods used by the first 'ascentionist'

That is why in all probability he/she would have given it a 5 rating.

Like we have been saying all along, there are other caches around of all graded difficulties. Choose 'em and respect 'em

[+keehotee]

 

what if my contribution is "i belayed the guy who retrieved the container"?

 

Think to yourself what if somebody logged a find on your own cache, and their log went something like "I drove the guy who then walked half a mile to find the container"

Would you be happy with the find?

 

Perhaps bus drivers should be allowed to log finds on caches on their routes, so long as some of their passengers have found the caches......

[4wheelin_fool]

 

their contributions being 'I shone the torch' or 'I drove the car,supplied the pen etc '

Quite frankly THEY DID NOT GET THE CACHE and the should not have logged the cache on the system.

 

what if my contribution is "i belayed the guy who retrieved the container"?

 

I dont know. Thats not my quote. I dont know why it says "4wheelin_fool"

 

 

 

Frankly, my own standards are pretty high, but I'm not going to push them on anyone else. You do whatever you think is best.

 

In the beginning, I incorrectly assumed all standards were the same, and was disturbed at thinking that they were falling apart.

It took awhile to realize that they are likely not going to go past a certain point, and if they do, so what?

 

Some of these threads act like pruine junce and tend to make one soften up on the issue.

Edited July 27, 2008 by 4wheelin_fool

[+twotfd]

 

their contributions being 'I shone the torch' or 'I drove the car,supplied the pen etc '

Quite frankly THEY DID NOT GET THE CACHE and the should not have logged the cache on the system.

 

what if my contribution is "i belayed the guy who retrieved the container"?

 

That would be fine if you then changed position and replaced the cache whilst your partner belayed you.

Otherwise you are only decieving yourself that you have reached the cache and in many respects devalueing the standard and quality of the cache which clearly was put up by the owner intending it to be obtained by the methods used by the first 'ascentionist'

That is why in all probability he/she would have given it a 5 rating.

Like we have been saying all along, there are other caches around of all graded difficulties. Choose 'em and respect 'em

 

So according to you ~ for every lamp post cache we do as a family each one of us needs to pick up the skirt, grab the container, sign the log, and then put it back???

[+Cache U Nutter]

 

their contributions being 'I shone the torch' or 'I drove the car,supplied the pen etc '

Quite frankly THEY DID NOT GET THE CACHE and the should not have logged the cache on the system.

 

what if my contribution is "i belayed the guy who retrieved the container"?

 

That would be fine if you then changed position and replaced the cache whilst your partner belayed you.

Otherwise you are only decieving yourself that you have reached the cache and in many respects devalueing the standard and quality of the cache which clearly was put up by the owner intending it to be obtained by the methods used by the first 'ascentionist'

That is why in all probability he/she would have given it a 5 rating.

Like we have been saying all along, there are other caches around of all graded difficulties. Choose 'em and respect 'em

 

So according to you ~ for every lamp post cache we do as a family each one of us needs to pick up the skirt, grab the container, sign the log, and then put it back???

Not at all

lamp post caches are not extreme caches.

The whole point of the 'Extreme ' cache is to challenge the finder physically and mentally.

and with respect to all lamp post cache owners the challenge of these caches is the stealth required in finding them and not the skill/ effort of lifting the skirt or the mental challenge.

At this point I have to say I have never done one of these caches as they don't exist in Britain !

[+keehotee]

 

their contributions being 'I shone the torch' or 'I drove the car,supplied the pen etc '

Quite frankly THEY DID NOT GET THE CACHE and the should not have logged the cache on the system.

 

what if my contribution is "i belayed the guy who retrieved the container"?

 

That would be fine if you then changed position and replaced the cache whilst your partner belayed you.

Otherwise you are only decieving yourself that you have reached the cache and in many respects devalueing the standard and quality of the cache which clearly was put up by the owner intending it to be obtained by the methods used by the first 'ascentionist'

That is why in all probability he/she would have given it a 5 rating.

Like we have been saying all along, there are other caches around of all graded difficulties. Choose 'em and respect 'em

 

So according to you ~ for every lamp post cache we do as a family each one of us needs to pick up the skirt, grab the container, sign the log, and then put it back???

 

That depends....do you log them as a family - or as individual cachers?

[Mag Magician]

As I read through this thread, I see the same thing that appears on my cache logs. Someone doesn't read a cache page, and therefore feels entitlement when they don't find a cache, or are unable to sign the physical log. It happens, and we as cache owners get the flack all the time for not allowing a smiley to the "almost got it" crowd.

 

Simple! Read the cache page, Initial your find in the on location log book, and then jump on-line and grab credit for your good work.

 

I could care less about how anyone else wants to play the game. What is cheating in my eyes is absolutely normal to some others. Just don't make the attempt on one of my hides.

JMHO

[+Cache U Nutter]

As I read through this thread, I see the same thing that appears on my cache logs. Someone doesn't read a cache page, and therefore feels entitlement when they don't find a cache, or are unable to sign the physical log. It happens, and we as cache owners get the flack all the time for not allowing a smiley to the "almost got it" crowd.

 

Simple! Read the cache page, Initial your find in the on location log book, and then jump on-line and grab credit for your good work.

 

I could care less about how anyone else wants to play the game. What is cheating in my eyes is absolutely normal to some others. Just don't make the attempt on one of my hides.

JMHO

 

Here here !

[+flask]

i don't really care what you think about it, but i'm going to submit for consideration that schlepping all the equipment up the approach and setting up the climb is a bit more involved than driving a guy to the parking lot.

 

what about the person that has to stay with the boats? i suppose they don't get to claim a find if the people who RODE in the boats have to fetch the container for them.

[Mag Magician]

i don't really care what you think about it, but i'm going to submit for consideration that schlepping all the equipment up the approach and setting up the climb is a bit more involved than driving a guy to the parking lot.

 

what about the person that has to stay with the boats? i suppose they don't get to claim a find if the people who RODE in the boats have to fetch the container for them.

Flask, I have the utmost respect for you, and all that you have posted on this forum. Well, not always, but close enough.

 

If you assume that the person who has to "stay with the boat" would be refused a chance for a signature, then most of your caching buddies are either too engrossed in their own find, or don't care a whit about you holding the line for them. I would suggest you go caching with someone a little less self engrossed?