Carry gun for self defense?

[+StanByk]

Thanks for pointing this out to me. I haven't heard of it before.

 

Edit:

I think police officers should have guns. I was rather surprised to see that most didn't, when I moved to England.

 

Regarding your point about police not carrying guns. They don't here in England...

 

That's not entirely correct.

 

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/986379.stm

 

Rising gun crimes have meant that in one part of the UK police officers are routinely wearing firearms while on foot patrol.

 

Nottinghamshire police took the decision after a series of shootings on two of the city's estates, sparked by rival gangs of drug dealers.

 

The police say the break from tradition is about stopping gun violence becoming the norm, and preventing murder.

Edited August 27, 2008 by StanByk

[+Kit Fox]

I understand your point, but my big worry is that easy access to guns leads to more crime rather than less crime

I read somewhere that the number of homicides is directly related to the number of people which carry guns (% households with firearms). In this statistic the USA had by far the most gun deathes per 100 000 inhabitants, twice as many as Switzerland, where it is as easy to obtain guns as in the states, and 10 times as many than in most European states.

 

That is one of the biggest myths trumped as facts. If you would like learn more about these myths, visit this site. http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Prominent-M...ed-Carry-Reform

 

Or

 

http://www.rense.com/general76/mths.htm

 

Myth #4 "Guns cause violence" Homicide

 

For over twenty years it has been illegal for teens to buy guns and, despite such gun control, the African American teenage male homicide rate in Washington, DC is 227 per 100,000 - 20 times the US average! [5] The US group for whom legal gun ownership has the highest prevalence, middle-aged white men, has a homicide rate of less than 7 per 100,000 - about half of the US average. [6]

 

If the "guns-cause-violence theory is correct why does Virginia, the alleged "easy purchase source of all those illegal Washington, DC guns, have a murder rate of 9.3 per 100,000, one- ninth of DC's overall homicide rate of 80.6? [7 ]Why are homicide rates lowest in states with loose gun control (North Dakota 1.1, Maine 1.2, South Dakota 1.7, Idaho 1.8, Iowa 2.0, Montana 2.6) and highest in states and the district with draconian gun controls and bans (District of Columbia 80.6, New York 14.2, California 12.7, Illinois 11.3, Maryland 11.7)? [7] The "guns- cause-violence and "guns exacerbate violence theories founder. Again, the causes of inner city violence are family disruption, media violence, and abject poverty, not gun ownership.

 

Accidents

 

National Safety Council data show that accidental gun deaths have been falling steadily since the beginning of this century and now hover at an all time low. This means that about 200 tragic accidental gun deaths occur annually, a far cry from the familiar false imagery of "thousands of innocent children. [8]

 

Suicide

 

Gun bans result in lower gun suicide rates, but a compensatory increase in suicide from other accessible and lethal means of suicide (hanging, leaping, auto exhaust, etc.). The net result of gun bans? No reduction in total suicide rates. [3] People who are intent in killing themselves find the means to do so. Are other means of suicide so much more politically correct that we should focus on measures that decrease gun suicide, but do nothing to reduce total suicide deaths?

 

* Myth #5 The "Friends and Family fallacy"

 

It is common for the public health advocates of gun bans to claim that most murders are of "friends and family". The medical literature includes many such false claims, that "most [murderers] would be considered law abiding citizens prior to their pulling the trigger" [9]and "most shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for protection." [10]

 

Not only do the data show that acquaintance and domestic homicide are a minority of homicides, [11] but the FBI's definition of acquaintance and domestic homicide requires only that the murderer knew or was related to the decedent. That dueling drug dealers are acquainted does not make them "friends". Over three- quarters of murderers have long histories of violence against not only their enemies and other "acquaintances," but also against their relatives. [12,13,14,15] Oddly, medical authors have no difficulty recognizing the violent histories of murderers when the topic is not gun control - "A history of violence is the best predictor of violence." [16] The perpetrators of acquaintance and domestic homicide are overwhelmingly vicious aberrants with long histories of violence inflicted upon those close to them. This reality belies the imagery of "friends and family" murdering each other in fits of passion simply because a gun was present "in the home."

 

* Myth #6 "A homeowner is 43 times as likely to be killed or kill a family member as an intruder"

 

To suggest that science has proven that defending oneself or one's family with a gun is dangerous, gun prohibitionists repeat Dr. Kellermann's long discredited claim: "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder." [17] This fallacy , fabricated using tax dollars, is one of the most misused slogans of the anti-self-defense lobby.

 

The honest measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected not Kellermann's burglar or rapist body count. Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator. [3] Any study, such as Kellermann' "43 times" fallacy, that only counts bodies will expectedly underestimate the benefits of gun a thousand fold. Think for a minute. Would anyone suggest that the only measure of the benefit of law enforcement is the number of people killed by police? Of course not. The honest measure of the benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved by deaths and injuries averted, and the property protected. 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun. [2]

 

Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times," [18] but he persisted in discredited methodology. He used a method that cannot distinguish between "cause" and "effect." His method would be like finding more diet drinks in the refrigerators of fat people and then concluding that diet drinks "cause" obesity.

 

Also, he studied groups with high rates of violent criminality, alcoholism, drug addiction, abject poverty, and domestic abuse . From such a poor and violent study group he attempted to generalize his findings to normal homes. Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.

[+chuckwagon101]

I take my two granddaughters and 1 grandson caching. The few times we have been in secluded territory, I have had a concealed gun.

 

Nothing has ever happened that I had to use the gun.

 

If a situation came up where I needed to protect my grandkids and myself, I would be glad to have that .38 snub-nose Ruger nestled in my custom DeSantis underarm holster.

 

I suppose I could try poking a daisy into the lapel of a bad guy but......nahhhhhhhh, I don't think that would work. I'm just not a "flowerchild" kind of guy.

[+Dryphter]

Well said Kit Fox.

 

I'll add - "The road to hell is paved with gun grabbing liberals"

 

;-)

[+StanByk]

Hi Kit Fox,

 

Thanks for citing those parts, I will have a closer read when I have more time.

You still haven't answered my question by the way.

What I still fail to understand is why on average the USA have 10 times more homicides per 100 000 inhabitants than most European states (with the exception of Switzerland and Finnland)?

Please understand that at least here in Europe, the likelihood of becoming victim to a serious crime as a ""normal person" is extremely slim. The crime statistics seem to indicate that the USA are a far more dangerous place to live in than Europe, so maybe your fear is warranted. Can you please enlighten me as to how much of the homicides are gang related and how many affect the average middle class person.

 

Thank you

Robert

[+Renegade Knight]

...What I still fail to understand is why on average the USA have 10 times more homicides per 100 000 inhabitants than most European states (with the exception of Switzerland and Finnland)?...

 

This is a good question. The answer is going to be found in politics and culture with historical and geographical influences.

[+Renegade Knight]

I understand your point, but my big worry is that easy access to guns leads to more crime rather than less crime...

 

In Switzerland every male is inducted into the army and trained. That may have something to do with the difference. I suspect that if in the USA everone were inducted and trained (at least in the use and care) the stastistics would change for the better.

 

Crime itself is a funtion of culture, geography, poverty and some other traits. With the right mix you get more crime, adjust the mix and maybe you get less. Crime has tools. Guns, Knives, Clubs, Machette's, Hammers, Roadblocks, #'s and so on. If you are surrounded by 6 folks and mugged you are no less mugged than if someone shows you a gun. The tools of the trade don't cause the trade. They come into play AFTER someone makes a decision to do the crime. If you want to specialize in smash and grab, odds are you are going to find a tire iron handy as heck. Maybe even the emergency window breaking tools in handy pocket form. The tire iron doubles as a defence JIC you get caught and need to get out of Dodge..

Edited August 27, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[Scamp]

I sing when I'm walking alone in areas where bears have been seen. If that doesn't scare them off, nothing will.

 

In all seriousness, though, I can fully understand why someone would want to carry a weapon with them while hiking. I had a run-in with a human attacker while hiking alone along a trail in a populated suburban area. It was noon on a Sunday, I had hiked the trail at least two dozen times before that day, and I never would have imagined that someone would try something there, but they did. By some miracle, I-- a scrawny 5'3" girl-- was able to bloody the guy's nose and send him reeling long enough to run for the park entrance, where I met up with a jogging ex-Marine who escorted me the rest of the way out. I was extremely lucky. I wound up signing up for aikido after that, and was not brave enough to venture into the woods alone for almost two years. Even now, I rarely go out alone and usually take my dog with me.

 

I can completely understand why someone would want to carry a gun with them, especially if they prefer to be outdoors alone. The world isn't safe-- even in areas you think you know.

 

 

There are no ex-Marines.

 

Bag o'Tricks

 

Point taken! He was definitely still in hero mode, even if he wasn't active military anymore.

[+Renegade Knight]

...There are no ex-Marines.

 

Bag o'Tricks

 

Point taken! He was definitely still in hero mode, even if he wasn't active military anymore.

 

If everone lived with that philosopy, that would be a good thing. Both you and the marine did good.

[+Kit Fox]

Hi Kit Fox,

 

Thanks for citing those parts, I will have a closer read when I have more time.

You still haven't answered my question by the way.

What I still fail to understand is why on average the USA have 10 times more homicides per 100 000 inhabitants than most European states (with the exception of Switzerland and Finnland)?

Please understand that at least here in Europe, the likelihood of becoming victim to a serious crime as a ""normal person" is extremely slim. The crime statistics seem to indicate that the USA are a far more dangerous place to live in than Europe, so maybe your fear is warranted. Can you please enlighten me as to how much of the homicides are gang related and how many affect the average middle class person.

 

Thank you

Robert

 

I'm not sure if you want my honest answer .

 

Ever since the sixties, and the great society crap, American has slowly died.

 

Children are born to unwed mothers. These same kids rarely have father figures in their lives to teach them discipline and self control. Self discipline, integrity, and honesty are no longer taught in our schools. Kids are now taught to crave self esteem. Kids who were abandoned in day care, so their parents could live a competitive, materialistic lifestyle didn't fair much better. These are the kids that grow up to be American society's next generation of criminals. These kids are not taught to work hard for a living, everything is either hand to them, or stolen then given to them.Liberalism has encouraged victimhood, and reliance on the govt. for safety (as well as a monthly check). Taking responsibilty for one's actions is almost non-existant. Criminals are quick to blame society for their ills. They reason with themselves that it is alright to terrorize society, as long as they get what they want.

 

Look at the youth of England, violence is spiraling out of control regardless of what you might think. You countries response is CCTV. Your citizens are not allowed to defend themselves, or their property. This means the people are like sheep, waiting for a wolf to choose them. I don't want to be a victim.

 

The results -- the toughest firearm restrictions of any democracy -- are credited by the world's gun control advocates with producing a low rate of violent crime. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell reflected this conventional wisdom when, in a 1988 speech to the American Bar Association, he attributed England's low rates of violent crime to the fact that "private ownership of guns is strictly controlled."

 

In reality, the English approach has not re-duced violent crime. Instead it has left law-abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals who are confident that their victims have neither the means nor the legal right to resist them. Imitating this model would be a public safety disaster for the United States.

 

 

StanByk do you drive a car? does it have a spare tire and a jack in the back? Have you ever needed your spare tire and your jack? A jack is an invaluable, albeit rarely used tool kept in your car, in case of emergencies. A firearm is like a rarely used tool available in case of emergencies. I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it, and not have it. The same goes for a tire jack, and all the survival gear I carry in my backpack "just in case."

Edited August 27, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+sTeamTraen]

In Switzerland every male is inducted into the army and trained. That may have something to do with the difference. I suspect that if in the USA everone were inducted and trained (at least in the use and care) the stastistics would change for the better.

 

Actually Switzerland has a surprisingly high gun murder rate, with many "domestic" murders being committed with guns. This is generally ascribed to the fact that pretty well every adult male under 45 or so is in the army reserve, has to spend a couple of weeks a year on manoeuvres, and keeps his army-issue weapon and 72 rounds of ammunition at home. So when the red mist descends, the "solution" is all too often readily to hand. I don't think that Switzerland has a particularly high overall murder rate, it's just that a bigger proportion of murders are committed with guns than elsewhere.

 

The one thing I found slightly surprising when I discovered this, was that the law-abiding and conservative Swiss would commit a crime of passion with federal property.

Edited August 27, 2008 by sTeamTraen

[GlfWrVt]

I'm always amused by people who say "Yeah sure, the police should have guns, but the Average Joe shouldn't be allowed to have one!"

 

Can someone tell me why a police officers life, is any more valuable than mine? From where I stand, It aint.

 

-Mark.

[CoyoteRed]

I'm always amused by people who say "Yeah sure, the police should have guns, but the Average Joe shouldn't be allowed to have one!"

 

Can someone tell me why a police officers life, is any more valuable than mine? From where I stand, It aint.

I don't think it's a value thing. It's more of a thing where an LEO is more likely to get into a situation where he may have to defend himself.

 

However, if I were an "Average Joe" I'd not want to have to rely on the police to protect me. When TSHTF I'd rather have something to protect me right here, right now. A phone only gets help on the way and that's it.

 

Let's look at it like this. Most modern street cops have a radio on their person. They only need key the mic to get someone--no need to even dial. Yet, they still carry guns. (...and extra ammo, pepper spray, an asp, a Taser, and a knife. Not to mention some carry backups. Don't forget soft body armor.) The radio is to get help on the way. In the meantime, you gotta take care of business on your own.

 

If a cop needs all that gear, why should any one begrudge the Average Joe a firearm? I don't get it.

 

Maybe it's them that doesn't get it.

[+BoggyWoggy]

 

What about a small taser gun is that legal out in cali

Me and my brother go hiking and if we ran into trouble i wouldn't like to kill someone or an animal but a stun gun might be in order?

 

How close do you want to get to a bear, so you can tase them?

 

Carry pepper spray and bells?

Obviously you haven't heard the story about the Grizzly bears....

No, I haven't

But is there really grizzely bears in San Diego?

 

Sure, haven't you seen our California Flag?

 

The only legal way to carry in California, is to be out during legal hunting season, with a permissable firearm (based on species being hunted), and be sure to carry the correct ammunition (if you "hunt" in an area affected by the new "Condor law." If you live in the Condor Zone, you can only carry "lead free" ammo approved by DFG. Other restrictions include firearm bans in State / County parks, or no-shooting areas.

 

Thanks to Commifornia's draconian laws, you would be better off buying bear spray.

There are no living grizzlies in California.

[+Kit Fox]

 

What about a small taser gun is that legal out in cali

Me and my brother go hiking and if we ran into trouble i wouldn't like to kill someone or an animal but a stun gun might be in order?

 

How close do you want to get to a bear, so you can tase them?

 

Carry pepper spray and bells?

Obviously you haven't heard the story about the Grizzly bears....

No, I haven't

But is there really grizzely bears in San Diego?

 

Sure, haven't you seen our California Flag?

 

The only legal way to carry in California, is to be out during legal hunting season, with a permissable firearm (based on species being hunted), and be sure to carry the correct ammunition (if you "hunt" in an area affected by the new "Condor law." If you live in the Condor Zone, you can only carry "lead free" ammo approved by DFG. Other restrictions include firearm bans in State / County parks, or no-shooting areas.

 

Thanks to Commifornia's draconian laws, you would be better off buying bear spray.

There are no living grizzlies in California.

 

I knew that didn't you see my smiley at the end of my question? Truthfully, I did see a grizzly bear in San Diego at the zoo.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+TeamThom]

So far I haven't found it necessary to carry a weapon while geocaching. However, years ago I frequently fished in an area that was full of rattle snakes and I carried a .357 Mag loaded with snake shot. Fortunately I never had to use it.

[+XGrunt]

I have commented on this post many times. The answer again is yes. But as a LEO I am allowed to carry everywhere and I use that right religeously. I carry while caching, hiking, kayaking and going to the movies. The world is a dangerous place and you can be one of three types of people. You can be a wolf, a sheep dog or you can be one of the sheep. I encourage everyone who can legally do so to carry at all times to avoid being a sheep. My fellow sheep dogs and I aren't usually there at the moment when the wolf comes howling.

[+saginawmike]

Glock 19 concealed. Or Ruger Super Redhawk .44 mag when not concealled.

[+BadSquirrel]

Springfield Armory .45 Ultra-compact; usually only when mountain lions are out.

[+Ed56]

I sing when I'm walking alone in areas where bears have been seen. If that doesn't scare them off, nothing will.

 

In all seriousness, though, I can fully understand why someone would want to carry a weapon with them while hiking. I had a run-in with a human attacker while hiking alone along a trail in a populated suburban area. It was noon on a Sunday, I had hiked the trail at least two dozen times before that day, and I never would have imagined that someone would try something there, but they did. By some miracle, I-- a scrawny 5'3" girl-- was able to bloody the guy's nose and send him reeling long enough to run for the park entrance, where I met up with a jogging ex-Marine who escorted me the rest of the way out. I was extremely lucky. I wound up signing up for aikido after that, and was not brave enough to venture into the woods alone for almost two years. Even now, I rarely go out alone and usually take my dog with me.

 

I can completely understand why someone would want to carry a gun with them, especially if they prefer to be outdoors alone. The world isn't safe-- even in areas you think you know.

 

I had a somewhat similar experience about 19 years ago... except it didn't happen in the woods. I was walking home from the grocery store when I heard a voice behind me saying "excuse me" (a polite mugger no less) when I turned around there were 2 guys about 20 feet away and one was pulling a gun from his waistband. His next words were "empty your pockets". My response is unprintable in a family forum but I took off running grocery bags and all and made good my escape. This was in a residential area of San Diego around noon on a week day. Like Scamp, I now consider myself lucky. And it just shows that you always have to expect the unexpected and have a plan.... these things don't always happen to other people. I carry pepper spray at all times and would probably carry a gun if it wasn't nearly impossible to get a permit. Yes, boys and girls it can happen to you.

[+Criminal]

[+Team Woodward]

Springfield XD45C strongside IWB & Ruger LCP in pocket holster in lighter clothing. With jacket/coat add a Redhawk .44 Mag in shoulder holster weak side.

[Geo-Ninjas]

Being the Geo-Ninjas our body is a weapon. If my daugher and her shrieking voice doesn't scare off any animals in a 3 mile radius i do not think anything would. We actually Cache in very familar areas to us because we are new to it. I have had no reason to carry a firearm and to this date do not believe I would cache in areas that would need me to carry a weapon.

 

Overall I believe the right to defend yourself. But for a lot of people carrying a loaded firearm might put yourself in more danger than good if you do not know how to use it. It is a great question. I would go to any length to protect my family, keep them safe and healthy. So where we go we do not need that kind of protection and if the time comes for serious caching...I will re-think it.

[+Kit Fox]

Fatal Pasteurella multocida septicemia and necrotizing fasciitis are related to saliva from animals, both wild and domestic. The last thing you want is to be bit by a mountain lion, bear, or a feral dog. I hike in very remote locales, and frequently see tracks and scat from Black Bears, and Mtn. Lions.

 

I have a three tier plan, Bear Spray, .357, and a knife. I would prefer to keep anything that wanted to bite me, far away. In a pinch, the bear spray would be a great deterrent for a bad guy intent on doing me bodily harm.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Kit Fox

[+Team Cotati]

Regarding your point about police not carrying guns. They don't here in England...

 

That's not entirely correct.

 

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/986379.stm

 

Rising gun crimes have meant that in one part of the UK police officers are routinely wearing firearms while on foot patrol.

 

Nottinghamshire police took the decision after a series of shootings on two of the city's estates, sparked by rival gangs of drug dealers.

 

The police say the break from tradition is about stopping gun violence becoming the norm, and preventing murder.

 

Is it mostly correct?

[+Knight2000]

After two separate situations on a caching trip last year, now my wife and I always carry. (You can't know when you will need it. Otherwise cops would hardly ever carry guns.) We literally feared for the lives of our family. I used to bury my head and ignore the news because of the bad things that were happening in the world. As parents it is our responsibility to keep our children safe. I wouldn't want to live with the burden of something happening to one of our children and knowing i might have been able to do something to prevent it.

 

Think of how many times cachers are alone and have no way to protect themselves. Very scary.

 

I carry a Star Firestar 9mm 13+1. My wife carries a Skyy 9mm 10+1 and a S&W .38spc depending on the situation.

 

Unfortunately it is a necessary evil in these times. Anti-gun laws only protect criminals because they don't follow the law. Unfortunately the law makers who have no first hand knowledge of guns make the laws in the U.S.

 

Making guns illegal will stop violence like making drugs illegal has stopped drug use.

 

It is not for everyone. It is an absolute pain in the butt carrying a gun. You should have constant training to be proficient. If you ever decide to carry a gun- make sure you take steps to be qualified.

 

Edited April 12, 2009 by Knight2000

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

It is not for everyone. It is an absolute pain in the butt carrying a gun. You should have constant training to be proficient. If you ever decide to carry a gun- make sure you take steps to be qualified.

 

And don't hunt for caches on certain federal land, at post offices, in state parks, in city parks... anywhere that firearms are restricted. If you have your gun in your car your travel is limited. Don't cross state lines without checking to see if there is a firearms permit reciprocity agreement with that state. Don't go to NYC and other cities at all! Go after a cache in any of those and many more places and you are in violation of state and federal laws that you may not even be aware of, carry permit or not. Not good.

 

But the picture of the kid is a nice touch; folks with a political agenda so rarely cry "Think of the chinldren", right?

 

Edit to add:

In the interest of full disclosure I am an NRA member, hunter, have a concealed carry permit and sometimes do... but not geocaching. I took my pistol out of the truck after about six months of geocaching because it so limited where I could go on the spur of the moment.

Edited April 12, 2009 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+AngelWolf93]

Edit: I am talking about urban caches in the paragraph below:

I find opinions like yours just bizarre, but maybe this is an American - European culture clash. For me it is totally unthinkable to carry a gun around, but then we do not really have any problems with violence here. Is your fear really justified? Have you ever been in a situtation where you were in danger of loosing your live so that you needed to protect yourself with a gun. Again this just amazes me!

 

Why would some one carry a gun on them at all times? That question always makes me wonder what people watch on TV or read in the paper. I assure you that you would find many more reports about people getting attacked by people than wildlife. The crime rate in this country is still rising. With todays economic landscape people will go to extreme measures to try too survive. I will be more prepared to protect my family and myself if it happens. I do train with my fire arm regularly. But lets not turn this into an anti-gun thread though. To each his own. But hopefully if you or your family is ever in need of help, someone legally carrying a gun is there to help you.

 

<snip>

But let me ask again, have you or any of your friends ever been, even just once, been in a situation where there LIFE has been under serious threat?

 

Obviously we have crime here as well, but most of the violent crime is between gangs, people who know each other, etc. Rarely it affects "normal people". <snip>

 

Edit: I am talking about urban caches in the paragraph below:

I find opinions like yours just bizarre, but maybe this is an American - European culture clash. For me it is totally unthinkable to carry a gun around, but then we do not really have any problems with violence here. Is your fear really justified? Have you ever been in a situtation where you were in danger of loosing your live so that you needed to protect yourself with a gun. Again this just amazes me!

 

I carry every day and everywhere. I was trained in the USMC to effectively utilize many different firearms, and I'm comfortable with them all. I respect my firearm, a respect that's immortalized in The Rifleman's Creed:

 

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life. My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than any enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will....

 

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...

 

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weakness, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...

 

Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but Peace.

 

To answer your question, StanByk: Yes. I have been in two situations where my life has been threatened, and the threat has been answered and defused by the drawing of a firearm. The first was while driving a taxi cab. A thug tried to rob me with a knife, but fled quickly when confronted by a .357 revolver.

 

The second was while riding my bicycle home at 11:00 pm, acutally along a major arterial. A jerk in a red Blazer leaned on his horn while passing me within 3 inches of my handlebars, then skidded to a stop about 25 feet past me. I stopped my bike and waited. The guy got out of the car and flicked open a folding knife. I drew my 9mm. Guy got back in his car and sped off in a hurry.

 

I have an Oregon CHL, and I am always armed, although no one would know unless I told them or unless something happened. I refuse to be a statistic resulting from violent crime. I also refuse to let my family become statistics. Or my friends, coworkers, etc. Aside from my firearm, I carry a folding knife all the time. Out in the woods, I carry my 9mm and a ka-bar combat knife. I am also a black belt in 3 martial arts styles, along with having experience in another 5 styles. I am currently studying Krav Maga. I was also awarded a black belt in the Marine Corps Martial Arts program, so I know I have other options available, but I will always carry a firearm to keep that option open. I am a sheepdog, tried and true.

 

The funny thing is, I actually identify as a Liberal...

[+Knight2000]

And don't hunt for caches on certain federal land, at post offices, in state parks, in city parks... anywhere that firearms are restricted. If you have your gun in your car your travel is limited. Don't cross state lines without checking to see if there is a firearms permit reciprocity agreement with that state. Don't go to NYC and other cities at all! Go after a cache in any of those and many more places and you are in violation of state and federal laws that you may not even be aware of, carry permit or not. Not good.

 

But the picture of the kid is a nice touch; folks with a political agenda so rarely cry "Think of the chinldren", right?

 

Edit to add:

In the interest of full disclosure I am an NRA member, hunter, have a concealed carry permit and sometimes do... but not geocaching. I took my pistol out of the truck after about six months of geocaching because it so limited where I could go on the spur of the moment.

The national parks issues is in limbo. I think it was overturned before Bush left and then a judge flipped it back. I don't know and it doesn't affect me because we don't have any parks that we have ever thought about finding a cache in.

 

No geocaches in post offices so no worries there.

 

In our State (Ohio) firearms are permitted at all state and city parks. A locality cannot prohibit it because their laws cannot be more restrictive than our state law.

 

I have two concealed carry permits. Between the two I am covered in the majority of the U.S. If i traveled and did not have a permit, i would open carry if able. I had to do this in Pittsburgh, PA once before i had a PA permit.

 

I have never had a situation where i could not legally carry my sidearm while caching.

 

I do not get involved with politics. I just know about my responsibility as a parent and husband. Anyone is only one natural disaster away from chaos and lawlessness.

 

My kids know firearms and safety and we constantly talk about it. They don't have any curiosity about guns. If they want to touch a gun, all they have to do is ask me. I will get one out, make it safe and they can touch it. They know what guns can do. They don't play with toy guns and never have. Guns are not toys. Guns are always locked up and they can never get to them without a responsible adult.

 

If all schools taught gun safety then think of the lives it would save. It would be worth it if it was just one life saved. Instead kids see them on TV and when they see a gun they have no idea what it can do. Folks who are anti-gunners would never allow this though. It is sad.

 

Guns are not the answer to safety but they can play a role if you let them. It is amazing what a rape and two situations where you feared for your families safety will do.

 

I cannot imagine walking down a trail geocaching with my family miles away without being armed. It is just too scary.

[+Manville Possum]

I keep a .45 in my cache bag and a .380 in my pocket, darn right I cache armed. I have had a CWP for more than 20 years and a FFL and am a member of the NRA, it ain't the four legged varmits that worry me around here.

[+Happy Bubbles]

I`m so glad I never have to worry about guns here in Japan. Handguns are completely illegal, and there are less than 100 incidences of gun violence every year, almost all of which are perpetrated by organized crime gangs in inter-gang conflicts. I`m comfortable walking pretty much anywhere at night, and never worry that I`ll encounter a mugger with a gun or that I might accidentally startle someone with a concealed weapon who decides to shoot first and ask questions later.

[+DatCrazyMongoose]

I have two concealed carry permits. Between the two I am covered in the majority of the U.S. If i traveled and did not have a permit, i would open carry if able. I had to do this in Pittsburgh, PA once before i had a PA permit.

 

I have never had a situation where i could not legally carry my sidearm while caching.

 

K2000, it's such a shame that some people think that the only way to carry a firearm is concealed. To carry a CONCEALED weapon most states require a permit. What people don't know is that you can walk around town and almost anywhere else with an OPEN-CARRIED weapon with no permit. It is perfectly legal. The problem is, some half-wit ignoramus who doesn't know the law will call the cops on you and you'll get hassled for it. Hell, some cops don't even know the law. I've read stories of people actually getting arrested for open-carry because the cops were ignorant of the law. They ended up getting released and received an apology. But that could ruin your day, ya know?

 

Unlike others, I DO get into politics, as should everyone else. If you believe in the Constitution and liberty, you need to check out www.lp.org (The Libertarian Party), and also be a member of the NRA. If you're military, you get 1-year free membership. Check it out!

[Luckless]

I cache alone and several times when out in the middle of the forest have asked myself, OK, now what would you do if you saw a bear a few feet away. Well, I probably would pee my pants. I just got my can of bear spray the other day so now I'll have that with me. I recently took it to a cache where I've heard rumors of a big cat. Seems like whenever I go onto this area there are carcasses of large animals around. I realized then that carrying bear spray should not give me a sense of false bravado and be an excuse to go against gut feelings that tell me to just get out of there or venture into areas I certainly wouldn't go without it.

[+Knight2000]

I`m so glad I never have to worry about guns here in Japan. Handguns are completely illegal, and there are less than 100 incidences of gun violence every year, almost all of which are perpetrated by organized crime gangs in inter-gang conflicts. I`m comfortable walking pretty much anywhere at night, and never worry that I`ll encounter a mugger with a gun or that I might accidentally startle someone with a concealed weapon who decides to shoot first and ask questions later.

Living in a country where guns are illegal does not make you immune to violence. Making guns illegal does not stop gun violence.

 

Guns are not just used to protect oneself from other guns. Guns can be used to protect oneself period. I am sure that rapes occur in Japan also. Ask most any person who was raped if they wished they had a way to defend themselves. (You can PM my wife if you wish.)

 

People who are responsible enough to legally carry a concealed weapon do not shoot first and ask questions later. That is cowboy stuff that you see in the movies.

 

Mull over this one...

[+Tequila]

 

I cannot imagine walking down a trail geocaching with my family miles away without being armed. It is just too scary.

 

That is such a sad comment on the area where you live. I feel sorry for you.

[+Knight2000]

I cannot imagine walking down a trail geocaching with my family miles away without being armed. It is just too scary.

That is such a sad comment on the area where you live. I feel sorry for you.

Why? We don't live in a bad area. It really isnt. The area we live in quite nice and the area we cache in is mostly rural.

 

I cannot imagine it because i cannot imagine taking any chances with my families safety. It is better to be prepared, is it not?

 

So there are two choices.

-Don't cache

-Cache w/ preparation

[+Team Cotati]

 

I cannot imagine walking down a trail geocaching with my family miles away without being armed. It is just too scary.

 

That is such a sad comment on the area where you live. I feel sorry for you.

 

I agree.

[+Knight2000]

...

Edited April 13, 2009 by Knight2000

[+Knight2000]

I cannot imagine walking down a trail geocaching with my family miles away without being armed. It is just too scary.

That is such a sad comment on the area where you live. I feel sorry for you.

I agree.

I dont know why but that comment seems to bother me. Besides the snow, we live in a nice area with very little crime.

 

Surely you both cannot live in an area with no crime. Does anyone watch the news? Bad things can happen anywhere and at anytime. Good or bad area- it doesnt matter.

 

People from the states delude themselves into thinking that bad things can't happen, won't happen and if they did it wouldn't happen to them.

 

Obviously neither of you have ever been in a situation where you feared for your safety (or safety of family) and no one was around.

[+sbell111]

I have two concealed carry permits. Between the two I am covered in the majority of the U.S. If i traveled and did not have a permit, i would open carry if able. I had to do this in Pittsburgh, PA once before i had a PA permit.

 

I have never had a situation where i could not legally carry my sidearm while caching.

K2000, it's such a shame that some people think that the only way to carry a firearm is concealed. To carry a CONCEALED weapon most states require a permit. What people don't know is that you can walk around town and almost anywhere else with an OPEN-CARRIED weapon with no permit. It is perfectly legal. ...

This may be true where you live, I guess, but it certainly isn't true for many of our locales. In Tennessee, for instance, the state issues carry permits that allow for either open carry or concealed. As you say, concealed is 'simpler' for most of us, so we keep it concealed. However, even if we chose to open-carry, we would 1) need to have a permit and 2) be restricted from carrying in many locations. Bills are currently wandering around the legislature that could cut down on those places that handguns could be carried with a permit, but for now, there are many places that you can't carry, but geocaches may be hidden.

I`m so glad I never have to worry about guns here in Japan. Handguns are completely illegal, and there are less than 100 incidences of gun violence every year, almost all of which are perpetrated by organized crime gangs in inter-gang conflicts. I`m comfortable walking pretty much anywhere at night, and never worry that I`ll encounter a mugger with a gun or that I might accidentally startle someone with a concealed weapon who decides to shoot first and ask questions later.

Living in a country where guns are illegal does not make you immune to violence. Making guns illegal does not stop gun violence. ...

I'm thinking that you chose not to actually read through Happy Bubbles post in order to be able to make your previously written argument.

[+ThirstyMick]

I'm not sure if you want my honest answer .

 

Ever since the sixties, and the great society crap, American has slowly died.

 

Children are born to unwed mothers. These same kids rarely have father figures in their lives to teach them discipline and self control. Self discipline, integrity, and honesty are no longer taught in our schools. Kids are now taught to crave self esteem. Kids who were abandoned in day care, so their parents could live a competitive, materialistic lifestyle didn't fair much better. These are the kids that grow up to be American society's next generation of criminals. These kids are not taught to work hard for a living, everything is either hand to them, or stolen then given to them.Liberalism has encouraged victimhood, and reliance on the govt. for safety (as well as a monthly check). Taking responsibilty for one's actions is almost non-existant. Criminals are quick to blame society for their ills. They reason with themselves that it is alright to terrorize society, as long as they get what they want.

 

Maybe I should keep my trap shut but I find this highly offensive. My unwed mother worked her tail off and did a fine job of instilling discipline, integrity, honesty, and self reliance. We were never victims, never relied on the government. I worked twice as hard as kids born to privilege to get where I am now, and to say that I am the next generation of criminals because my mother was unwed is horribly offensive.

 

To be honest, I think I was better off for having seen how hard she worked. I think its people who have everything handed to them in life that don't always appreciate hard work.

 

And to address the OP, when I'm with someone, I just make sure to talk and the bears stay away. The black bears we have here are afraid of people. When I'm by myself, I clap every so often. And as far as protection against people, I certainly feel safer in the woods than in certain cities of new jersey. I'm not really concerned.

[+ThirstyMick]

I cannot imagine walking down a trail geocaching with my family miles away without being armed. It is just too scary.

That is such a sad comment on the area where you live. I feel sorry for you.

I agree.

I dont know why but that comment seems to bother me. Besides the snow, we live in a nice area with very little crime.

 

Surely you both cannot live in an area with no crime. Does anyone watch the news? Bad things can happen anywhere and at anytime. Good or bad area- it doesnt matter.

 

People from the states delude themselves into thinking that bad things can't happen, won't happen and if they did it wouldn't happen to them.

 

Obviously neither of you have ever been in a situation where you feared for your safety (or safety of family) and no one was around.

 

Been broken in on. Been mugged. Not afraid enough to carry a gun.

 

Honestly, I think carrying a gun would make me more actively worry about the possibility of an attack. It'd be a constant reminder that something could happen, when it's unlikely that something *will* happen. Sure sometimes things happen, but most people aren't out to get you.

[+Knight2000]

Been broken in on. Been mugged. Not afraid enough to carry a gun.

 

Honestly, I think carrying a gun would make me more actively worry about the possibility of an attack. It'd be a constant reminder that something could happen, when it's unlikely that something *will* happen. Sure sometimes things happen, but most people aren't out to get you.

I am afraid for my families safety, not afraid in general. It sounds like you are taking care of yourself while my wife and I are also responsible for our children.

 

Carrying a gun would make you more aware of a possible negative encounter. That is not a bad thing, that is a good thing! Safety is not simply carrying a gun. It is many things.

 

Example:

 

Watch people at a traffic light. The majority just sit there staring at the light. What you should be doing is being aware of everything around you. Hard to do this when in a trance staring at the light.

 

No one is out to get me! When I drive around I don't expect a flat tire but I do carry a spare. How many times have I used it? I cant even remember if I ever have!

 

Not for everyone. It takes a training and persistence. You have to have the right mind set.

[+Knight2000]

I`m so glad I never have to worry about guns here in Japan. Handguns are completely illegal, and there are less than 100 incidences of gun violence every year, almost all of which are perpetrated by organized crime gangs in inter-gang conflicts. I`m comfortable walking pretty much anywhere at night, and never worry that I`ll encounter a mugger with a gun or that I might accidentally startle someone with a concealed weapon who decides to shoot first and ask questions later.

Living in a country where guns are illegal does not make you immune to violence. Making guns illegal does not stop gun violence. ...

I'm thinking that you chose not to actually read through Happy Bubbles post in order to be able to make your previously written argument.

I did read through the post I replied to. Maybe she posted earlier in this thread and I missed something there?

[+ThirstyMick]

Been broken in on. Been mugged. Not afraid enough to carry a gun.

 

Honestly, I think carrying a gun would make me more actively worry about the possibility of an attack. It'd be a constant reminder that something could happen, when it's unlikely that something *will* happen. Sure sometimes things happen, but most people aren't out to get you.

I am afraid for my families safety, not afraid in general. It sounds like you are taking care of yourself while my wife and I are also responsible for our children.

 

Carrying a gun would make you more aware of a possible negative encounter. That is not a bad thing, that is a good thing! Safety is not simply carrying a gun. It is many things.

 

Example:

 

Watch people at a traffic light. The majority just sit there staring at the light. What you should be doing is being aware of everything around you. Hard to do this when in a trance staring at the light.

 

No one is out to get me! When I drive around I don't expect a flat tire but I do carry a spare. How many times have I used it? I cant even remember if I ever have!

 

Not for everyone. It takes a training and persistence. You have to have the right mind set.

 

Maybe I'll feel differently when I have kids. Somehow I doubt it, but I don't have any so I suppose I can't know how I will feel then. That's fine if it makes you feel more secure to have one. I personally would feel less secure as I'd be worrying about the possibility of needing to use it. That's me. It's your right to carry one, and thats fine, I hope you don't ever need to use it though

 

No the spare tire doesn't make me anxious about getting a flat but I do think it's slightly different Though I did bring my car in for new tires when I realized I might be at risk of a flat...preventative measures.. y'know.. like not stopping my car for caches that make me uncomfortable

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

There are indeed dangers out there.

 

Good sense says that we mitigate the risk by avoiding it when we can and protecting ourselves from it.

 

Carrying a gun helps mitigate a very small remote risk.

 

Driving a car to the cache puts you in extreme high risk... it's the most dangerous thing most of us do.

 

Statistically your car is far more dangerous to you, your family and your community than someone with a gun who might intend you harm.

 

If you're so worried about your safety that you need to carry a gun then it obviously follows that you need to sell your car.

 

If you are willing to drive a car then safety is not really a big issue with you, and certainly not the real reason that you carry a gun.

 

Think of the chinldren! If we really want a safer community ban cars!

[+Scubasonic]

Mostly a Urban cacher but do go out on many FTFs in the city in the middle of the night, and sometimes not in the best parts of town, so I do carry a weapon, and of course have a permit to do so, I don't go out caching without it.

 

Scubasonic

[+AngelWolf93]

There are indeed dangers out there.

 

Good sense says that we mitigate the risk by avoiding it when we can and protecting ourselves from it.

 

Carrying a gun helps mitigate a very small remote risk.

 

Driving a car to the cache puts you in extreme high risk... it's the most dangerous thing most of us do.

 

Statistically your car is far more dangerous to you, your family and your community than someone with a gun who might intend you harm.

 

If you're so worried about your safety that you need to carry a gun then it obviously follows that you need to sell your car.

 

If you are willing to drive a car then safety is not really a big issue with you, and certainly not the real reason that you carry a gun.

 

Think of the chinldren! If we really want a safer community ban cars!

 

This is why I ride my bike.

 

Oh, and I'm all for banning cars in the cities. Use them for getting around outside urban centers. That would save many many lives.

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled gun thread.

[+sbell111]

I`m so glad I never have to worry about guns here in Japan. Handguns are completely illegal, and there are less than 100 incidences of gun violence every year, almost all of which are perpetrated by organized crime gangs in inter-gang conflicts. I`m comfortable walking pretty much anywhere at night, and never worry that I`ll encounter a mugger with a gun or that I might accidentally startle someone with a concealed weapon who decides to shoot first and ask questions later.

Living in a country where guns are illegal does not make you immune to violence. Making guns illegal does not stop gun violence. ...

I'm thinking that you chose not to actually read through Happy Bubbles post in order to be able to make your previously written argument.

I did read through the post I replied to. Maybe she posted earlier in this thread and I missed something there?

I highlighted the bit the you missed on your first run through.

 

There are indeed dangers out there.

 

Good sense says that we mitigate the risk by avoiding it when we can and protecting ourselves from it.

 

Carrying a gun helps mitigate a very small remote risk.

 

Driving a car to the cache puts you in extreme high risk... it's the most dangerous thing most of us do.

 

Statistically your car is far more dangerous to you, your family and your community than someone with a gun who might intend you harm.

 

If you're so worried about your safety that you need to carry a gun then it obviously follows that you need to sell your car.

 

If you are willing to drive a car then safety is not really a big issue with you, and certainly not the real reason that you carry a gun.

 

Think of the chinldren! If we really want a safer community ban cars!

 

This is why I ride my bike.

 

Oh, and I'm all for banning cars in the cities. Use them for getting around outside urban centers. That would save many many lives.

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled gun thread.

Sadly, this is last year's regularly scheduled gun thread.

[+Tequila]

 

No one is out to get me! When I drive around I don't expect a flat tire but I do carry a spare. How many times have I used it? I cant even remember if I ever have!

 

 

Is the spare tire concealed? Do you have a permit to carry it?