Carry gun for self defense?

[+hairball45]

Not a heckuva a lot of bears in Ahia, not much I'd want to shoot on the trail, and I've always believed that if I did carry somebody would just take it away and hurt me with it, so no weapons for this old boy. A nice sasafrass hiking stick, but that's about it.

hairball

bear bells? is that anything like uh, oh nevermind

the bears would object to that rather strenously

[+sbell111]

Guns are typically a waste of space and extra weight.

Bear bells and if you absolutely need it pepper spray.

Guns are almost always a waste of space, until you need one. At that moment, they are so much more important than anything else you brought along.

[+Moose Mob]

Guns are typically a waste of space and extra weight.

Bear bells and if you absolutely need it pepper spray.

Guns are almost always a waste of space, until you need one. At that moment, they are so much more important than anything else you brought along.

I could say that about a spare pen or a pair of tweezers.

[+Renegade Knight]

Guns are typically a waste of space and extra weight.

Bear bells and if you absolutely need it pepper spray.

Guns are almost always a waste of space, until you need one. At that moment, they are so much more important than anything else you brought along.

I could say that about a spare pen or a pair of tweezers.

And you would be right on both accounts.

Ironicly my emergency bag has all of the above covered.

[+Rev Mike]

I also always carry when caching in any state that honors my permit and actually ran into a mother black bear with cubs a couple of months ago. That is the only time I have ever had to draw my weapon while caching and I am glad that I did not have to use it. We came around a corner on a trail and they were just into the woods about twenty feet away. I had the gun out and leveled at the bear before I even thought about doing so. Proper training and familiarity with any firearm is a must and that is just how you want it to happen if it ever does. That said we were able to just back away without incident and headed on to another cache. After finding the other cache we stopped and had dinner and gave the bears a good fourty minutes to clear out before heading back. I have to say the second time down the trail the gun was in hand from the beginning but as planned (or at least as hoped) the bears were long gone by the time we hiked back to the cache.

 

I consider the gun the second most important thing in my caching bag behind my epipen... but then bees have almost killed me more times then bears.

 

- Rev Mike

[+SassyGingerNinja]

Yep, caching or not - legal CWP. H & K 9 mm, sub compact, hollow points, hi-cap mag. I practice at the range at least once a month and hope to God I never need to use it. I'm not a hunter either. This caliber wouldn't do much on bear, but hopefully the noise would scare it away!

 

I probably wouldn't return to a cache where I encountered a mother bear on the way. It's just not worth risking my life for a find. Mother bears are not to messed with!

 

Safe gun ownership is all about continuous training and never intentionally putting yourself in a situation where you might have no choice but to use it.

[+Woodstramp]

Yep, caching or not - legal CWP. H & K 9 mm, sub compact, hollow points, hi-cap mag. I practice at the range at least once a month and hope to God I never need to use it. I'm not a hunter either. This caliber wouldn't do much on bear, but hopefully the noise would scare it away!

 

I probably wouldn't return to a cache where I encountered a mother bear on the way. It's just not worth risking my life for a find. Mother bears are not to messed with!

 

Safe gun ownership is all about continuous training and never intentionally putting yourself in a situation where you might have no choice but to use it.

 

Talking about packing, PO'd mama bears and guns as noise makers.....check out this clip from a bowhunting show I like to watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw The guide in this video has nerves and composure of steel.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

The ONLY weapon that I ever carry for self-defense while geocaching is a small 6.6 megaton yield thermonuclear explosive device which weighs only 5.4 pounds and may be lobbed at any threatening creature (including those of the human variety). The only problem is that every time I choose to detonate one of these devices in the field in self-defense, I end up with a REALLY deep and dark suntan from the near-field exposure to radiative flux from the blast, along with a bit of sunburn on the more exposed areas of my skin, for the next few months, and that is becoming a bit old....

Edited August 3, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+Criminal]

[+TakeTheLongWay]

Ruger Alaskan?

 

I shot one of those in 454 Casull a few weeks ago, that was fun

 

I would love to get one of them, but can't justify buying a gun I won't use.

 

Around here a hot 10mm will take care of anything you meet in the woods.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Limhi

[+Hunter1227]

Here in southern indiana...I carry (with a legal license) a Ruger 9mm w/124gr. Golden Saber HP's..I leave the Ruger .44 w/240 HP's at home until hunting season...lol...I would hate to carry that 10 -12 miles while caching/hiking

Luckily I have not encountered any lab's or gardens YET.

The biggest problem around here is people who DO NOT keep their dogs tied up and they run wild..the problem with that is they have lost their fear of humans and dont seem to hesitate to come after someone...and I have encountered this MANY times..the first shot is always a warning and the next 14 are there for any further advance on their part

[+Colonial Cats]

Guns are typically a waste of space and extra weight.

Bear bells and if you absolutely need it pepper spray.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Colonial Cats

[+outlaw169]

My sidearm is like my wallet and my keys. If I don't have it on me when I walk out the door, something just feels wrong to me. The only time I leave it at home is if I'm going to the post office, or out to dinner and think I might have a drink or 2.

 

"There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men."

-Edmund Burke

[GlfWrVt]

Glock 23 all the time.

 

-Mark.

[+ShadowCachers]

Living in Arkansas I dont leave the house with out carring my hand gun. There are alot of bad people in the world and somehow alot of them decide to live in Arkansas. Can't really say that about Arkansas, each state has their fair share of bad people. Either urban caching or caching in the woods I feel safer with my .40 cal. I haven't herd of anybody getting killed while caching in this state, but the ShadowCachers don't want to become a statistic. I know my wife and kids feel safer to cache in cities where the crime rate is high.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

In this thread the OP describes encountering someone trying to break into his truck at a cache site. He does not mention being armed. In this case he confronted the perp and the parp left the scene, but he could just as easily have attacked the OP.

 

How would you deal with such a situation if you were armed?

 

If you found someone breaking into your truck, would you be more likely to risk a confrontation?

 

If having a gun increases your confidence and likelihood of confronting the perp regardless of the risk that he may atack you, is it worth involving guns over a pickup truck?

Edited August 23, 2008 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+TropicalParadise]

Please don't mistake the following question for naivety, more like being incredulous at the amount of people willing to escalate situations to violence.

 

Why, with the exception of ShadowCachers who gave okay reasons for it, would you carry a gun with you on urban caches? In the woods, okay, there are bears. But why would someone carry a gun with them at ALL TIMES?

[+Kit Fox]

Please don't mistake the following question for naivety, more like being incredulous at the amount of people willing to escalate situations to violence.

 

Why, with the exception of ShadowCachers who gave okay reasons for it, would you carry a gun with you on urban caches? In the woods, okay, there are bears. But why would someone carry a gun with them at ALL TIMES?

 

The most dangerous adversaries are human beings of the "dirtbag" variety. You are far more likely to encounter predatory scum in urban areas, than you will on the trail. If I approach an area (where a cache is hidden) and my intuition says that the area is unsafe, i'll skip the cache.

 

There are millions of documented encounters between good people, and predatory types where a simple display of a firearm was enough to cause the dirt bag to change their mind and leave.

[+gr8johnson]

Why would some one carry a gun on them at all times? That question always makes me wonder what people watch on TV or read in the paper. I assure you that you would find many more reports about people getting attacked by people than wildlife. The crime rate in this country is still rising. With todays economic landscape people will go to extreme measures to try too survive. I will be more prepared to protect my family and myself if it happens. I do train with my fire arm regularly. But lets not turn this into an anti-gun thread though. To each his own. But hopefully if you or your family is ever in need of help, someone legally carrying a gun is there to help you.

[+TropicalParadise]

Why would some one carry a gun on them at all times? That question always makes me wonder what people watch on TV or read in the paper. I assure you that you would find many more reports about people getting attacked by people than wildlife. The crime rate in this country is still rising. With todays economic landscape people will go to extreme measures to try too survive. I will be more prepared to protect my family and myself if it happens. I do train with my fire arm regularly. But lets not turn this into an anti-gun thread though. To each his own. But hopefully if you or your family is ever in need of help, someone legally carrying a gun is there to help you.

 

It was a valid and genuine question and I'm not a crazy anti-gun person. For all the reports of people with guns helping people, there are an equal number of (if not more) reports of guns killing people, children killing people or shooting people with their parents guns, guns being wrestled out of people's hands and being shot with their own guns. But I think it's a cultural thing, there are a billion other ways to protect yourself than with a gun and I'm not a part of the culture that feels it's necessary to have a gun.

 

Do you have any other reason for carrying a gun other than for your own protection? Because a man can protect himself without a gun if he has the desire. I suppose I can understand if you had one at home for someone breaking and entering but to carry it around with you all the time? How am I to distinguish you from a GOOD person packing a weapon or a BAD person packing a weapon?

 

I'm not trying to turn this into a anti-gun thread, the opposite actually. I'm trying to understand the mentality of someone who does so, because the only people I've ever met who own guns are those who use them for hunting or farming, and never someone who carries one around all the time. I'm not trying to fight, I'm genuinely trying to understand your mentality, past the immediate (and in many cases - incorrect) thought of paranoia.

[+gr8johnson]

Why would some one carry a gun on them at all times? That question always makes me wonder what people watch on TV or read in the paper. I assure you that you would find many more reports about people getting attacked by people than wildlife. The crime rate in this country is still rising. With todays economic landscape people will go to extreme measures to try too survive. I will be more prepared to protect my family and myself if it happens. I do train with my fire arm regularly. But lets not turn this into an anti-gun thread though. To each his own. But hopefully if you or your family is ever in need of help, someone legally carrying a gun is there to help you.

 

It was a valid and genuine question and I'm not a crazy anti-gun person. For all the reports of people with guns helping people, there are an equal number of (if not more) reports of guns killing people, children killing people or shooting people with their parents guns, guns being wrestled out of people's hands and being shot with their own guns. But I think it's a cultural thing, there are a billion other ways to protect yourself than with a gun and I'm not a part of the culture that feels it's necessary to have a gun.

 

Do you have any other reason for carrying a gun other than for your own protection? Because a man can protect himself without a gun if he has the desire. I suppose I can understand if you had one at home for someone breaking and entering but to carry it around with you all the time? How am I to distinguish you from a GOOD person packing a weapon or a BAD person packing a weapon?

 

I'm not trying to turn this into a anti-gun thread, the opposite actually. I'm trying to understand the mentality of someone who does so, because the only people I've ever met who own guns are those who use them for hunting or farming, and never someone who carries one around all the time. I'm not trying to fight, I'm genuinely trying to understand your mentality, past the immediate (and in many cases - incorrect) thought of paranoia.

 

Point 1, yes there are accidental shootings. But I challenge you find one involving some one who is a licensed concealed gun carrier or some one keeps the gun in a safe. I keep my guns in a safe that only my wife and I know how to open. My boys are also familiar with the guns. I mean that they know about and are aware of them. So it is not some kind of toy or thing of fascination for them. It is alway some jerk who left it sitting in a bed side table loaded and not locked up properly. Or some one who left it under the couch cushion. Something like that. Not responsible gun owners like myself.

 

Point 2, never bring a knife to a gun fight. I will be armed with at least the weapon as the most armed criminal will come at me with. If I have a tasor it will not help much against a criminal with a gun. Karate, or a knife, or pepper spray will not either. If they have a gun and open fire in a restaurant or any place I am with my family I will be able to take action if I feel like I need to.

And you will not need to know me from the bad guy. You will not see my concealed weapon until I am shooting the guy shooting other people. Than you will know the difference. I would never draw my gun unless I would save some ones life or prevent a rape.

 

point 3, you probably have met other people who carry them around ( unless you live some place where it is not permitted of course). We usually do not tell people. You could be standing some place and talking to a concealed gun carrier and not know it. You would be surprised at how many states have the right to get a concealed weapon permit if you meet the requirements. There are not a lot of people who know I carry at most places I go.

 

My mentality is that, I got tired of finding out about some one walking into a Wendy's, A Coney Island restaurant, a mall, a school ( although I am not permitted to carry into a school with a permit) or in front of a court house downtown or a church and shooting innocent people for no reason. Do you ever go to any of those type of places? I do. My family does too. The police can not be every place I go with my family. It is my job to take of them.

[+Colonial Cats]

Don't forget about the problem with "Gun Free Zones". Only criminals have guns in these zones.

[+SUV2003]

I had to compete with a black bear for a cache a few weeks ago, so just curious how many carry a firearm for protection when caching in the woods for protection from predators (obviously does not apply in all regions). Do you carry pistol or long gun, or do you prefer to carry bells and pepper spray, or a combination of all the above? Or do you just go nekid and hope for the best?

 

It would depend on the leavings of the animals in the area I am visiting. If the fecal matter is commonly full of bells and smells like pepper, then I am gonna opt for the firearms.

[JohnGGeo]

I carry a knife.

[+wkmccall]

I had to compete with a black bear for a cache a few weeks ago, so just curious how many carry a firearm for protection when caching in the woods for protection from predators (obviously does not apply in all regions). Do you carry pistol or long gun, or do you prefer to carry bells and pepper spray, or a combination of all the above? Or do you just go nekid and hope for the best?

 

If needed, I carry a Glock 17 9mm or a PT1911 .45 cal

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

I carry a mace baton so I can fend off beast or man... even endangered species beast... without breaking any laws and incurring fines. The last thing I'd ever want to do is kill a Florida Panther who just felt threatened by me and was defending itself. I have not had an opportunity to use the mace baton, thank goodness, but there was a situation (with man, not beast) that prompted me getting the baton in the first place. Mind you, I've almost hit a Florida black bear with my car as it was running across the road. That's just a consequence of taking all their land for subdivisions and shopping malls.

 

A lot of my family lives in the backwoods of Upper Michigan. I hear a lot of stories about people who get fined for shooting bears in self-defense... bears that were breaking into their homes. These are situations where you really can't put any blame on the person, and yet they still got fined.

 

If you want to have a rifle (or twenty) for hunting during the seasons, good for you, but I personally don't feel safe around people who feel a need to carry a firearm on them all the time.

 

- Elle

[stryder717]

Im glad to see that there are so many cachers that carry. This is an issue that i was thinking about recently. I am totally for open and concelled carry. I will be getting my ccl in a few weeks when i get a new drivers license (just moved and still have out of state license).

[+TakeTheLongWay]

In this thread the OP describes encountering someone trying to break into his truck at a cache site. He does not mention being armed. In this case he confronted the perp and the parp left the scene, but he could just as easily have attacked the OP.

 

How would you deal with such a situation if you were armed?

 

If you found someone breaking into your truck, would you be more likely to risk a confrontation?

 

If having a gun increases your confidence and likelihood of confronting the perp regardless of the risk that he may atack you, is it worth involving guns over a pickup truck?

 

FWIW...I carry (or have withing arms reach) my Glock 23 24/7 everywhere where I'm legally allowed to, which luckily here in PA is pretty much anywhere.

 

The OP in that thread made a seriously bad choice to confront them IMO.

 

If I saw them before they saw me I'd back off and call the police. I personally wouldn't confront someone over something that is easily replaceable.

 

I've been carrying for going on 8 years and have only once partially drew on someone.

 

A guy came after me with a k-bar type looking knife coming out of wal-mart at about 3am (i used to work nights at UPS when I was in school), I only got my Glock about half way out of the holster and he took off running rather quickly.

[GlfWrVt]

I carry a mace baton so I can fend off beast or man... even endangered species beast... without breaking any laws and incurring fines. The last thing I'd ever want to do is kill a Florida Panther who just felt threatened by me and was defending itself. I have not had an opportunity to use the mace baton, thank goodness, but there was a situation (with man, not beast) that prompted me getting the baton in the first place. Mind you, I've almost hit a Florida black bear with my car as it was running across the road. That's just a consequence of taking all their land for subdivisions and shopping malls.

 

A lot of my family lives in the backwoods of Upper Michigan. I hear a lot of stories about people who get fined for shooting bears in self-defense... bears that were breaking into their homes. These are situations where you really can't put any blame on the person, and yet they still got fined.

 

If you want to have a rifle (or twenty) for hunting during the seasons, good for you, but I personally don't feel safe around people who feel a need to carry a firearm on them all the time.

 

- Elle

 

Well, because concealed means what it means, you will most likely never know who is armed and who is not. If you do find out that a person who is licensed to carry is carrying, you will most likey be very glad he/she is there.

 

And as far as the baton goes, My State (Oregon) in it's great wisdom, issues a "concealed handgun license". It is still unlawful for me to carry a baton, or any other weapon as defined by the state, concealed on my person. A handgun is okay though. Figure that one out.

 

-Mark.

[+outlaw169]

Please don't mistake the following question for naivety, more like being incredulous at the amount of people willing to escalate situations to violence.

 

Why, with the exception of ShadowCachers who gave okay reasons for it, would you carry a gun with you on urban caches? In the woods, okay, there are bears. But why would someone carry a gun with them at ALL TIMES?

 

Violence is always a last resort to me, and I avoid it as much as I possibly can. But, as has been mentioned, there are bad people in this world, and they do bad things. The choice isn't always mine to make.

 

It would be nice if no one would ever try to harm another. It would be wonderful if bad people would just stop being bad. Nothing would make me happier than telling such people to 'Stop it' and have them listen to me.

 

I can't expect that, though. I wish I could, but I can't. And when the wolf comes to the door, I can either let him hurt me and my family, or I can stop him. I choose to stop him.

 

Retired LTC Dave Grossman wrote a little something entitled "On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs" and it is something that, in my humble opinion, should be required reading for anyone trying to gain understanding of such a topic as this. I will quote a small part of it...

 

-----The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

 

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."-----

 

I hate violence, and I pray that it never comes before me. But IF that day does come, I will be prepared for it.

[+Wesbo]

Guns are typically a waste of space and extra weight.

Bear bells and if you absolutely need it pepper spray.

There is a recent study, that looks reasonable, that backs up your claim.

 

Basically it shows that guns aren't useless against bears, but that sprays are more effective. So if bears are your only concern, it would seem that sprays are the way to go. Of course, there's nothing wrong with a two- or three-tier plan.

 

W

[+Renegade Knight]

...For all the reports of people with guns helping people, there are an equal number of (if not more) reports of guns killing people, children killing people or shooting people with their parents guns, guns being wrestled out of people's hands and being shot with their own guns. But I think it's a cultural thing, there are a billion other ways to protect yourself than with a gun and I'm not a part of the culture that feels it's necessary to have a gun.

 

Do you have any other reason for carrying a gun other than for your own protection?...

 

To answer a few of your questions.

More people die from Doctor's malpractice than from guns. You can't just toss out a 'stastistic' and expect it to mean anything. Especially when it's off the top of your head.

 

As for a billion other ways, let me help you with that. All other things being the same, the bigger guy wins. You have to have something that makes it so that the odds are on your side.

 

As for another reason to carry, shooting is fun. There is skill involved. There need be no other reason.

[+Waazdag]

I had to compete with a black bear for a cache a few weeks ago, so just curious how many carry a firearm for protection when caching in the woods for protection from predators (obviously does not apply in all regions). Do you carry pistol or long gun, or do you prefer to carry bells and pepper spray, or a combination of all the above? Or do you just go nekid and hope for the best?

 

 

For urban caches I just use my wits for protection... and size. For out in the bush though I bring a Katana (sword) that I've had and hiked with for years. Used to carry a 12 Gauge shotgun loaded with solid slugs until the law made me a criminal for doing that... Canadian gun laws are so restrictive it's all but impossible to legally have one... let alone carry one for "protection": even when in the wilderness. If it were legal though I'd still pack the extra 12 Lbs every time I go off the beaten path. I been considering picking up some bear spray as a back up to the sword though: especially with the number of encounters and maulings up here on the rise...

[sdarken]

OK, so I'm going off-topic here but the references to bear and mountain lion attacks got me curious so I did a little searching.

 

For the period 1990-2003:

 

Fatalities from mountain lions (U.S and Canada) : 10

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks.html

 

Fatalities from bears (U.S and Canada) : 31

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal...erica_by_decade

 

and for comparison purposes:

 

Fatalities from lightning strikes (U.S only) : 756

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lls/fatalities_us.html

 

Based on very recent personal experience I'd suggest sun exposure is probably a much greater danger than wildlife in my area.

[+scottpa100]

Hearing all this talk of bears, mountain lions and guns .... makes me glad I cache in the UK! Our bears and mountain lions were hunted to extinction hundreds of years ago. We can have some grumpy sheep to contend with though...

[Scamp]

I sing when I'm walking alone in areas where bears have been seen. If that doesn't scare them off, nothing will.

 

In all seriousness, though, I can fully understand why someone would want to carry a weapon with them while hiking. I had a run-in with a human attacker while hiking alone along a trail in a populated suburban area. It was noon on a Sunday, I had hiked the trail at least two dozen times before that day, and I never would have imagined that someone would try something there, but they did. By some miracle, I-- a scrawny 5'3" girl-- was able to bloody the guy's nose and send him reeling long enough to run for the park entrance, where I met up with a jogging ex-Marine who escorted me the rest of the way out. I was extremely lucky. I wound up signing up for aikido after that, and was not brave enough to venture into the woods alone for almost two years. Even now, I rarely go out alone and usually take my dog with me.

 

I can completely understand why someone would want to carry a gun with them, especially if they prefer to be outdoors alone. The world isn't safe-- even in areas you think you know.

[+Waazdag]

OK, so I'm going off-topic here but the references to bear and mountain lion attacks got me curious so I did a little searching.

 

For the period 1990-2003:

 

Fatalities from mountain lions (U.S and Canada) : 10

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks.html

 

Fatalities from bears (U.S and Canada) : 31

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal...erica_by_decade

 

and for comparison purposes:

 

Fatalities from lightning strikes (U.S only) : 756

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lls/fatalities_us.html

 

Based on very recent personal experience I'd suggest sun exposure is probably a much greater danger than wildlife in my area.

 

Well, good numbers and all... but real ones from my own life from 1970-2008:

 

Fatalities from anything: None

Close encounters with Mountain lion (stalkings) >50 ft : 1

Close encounters with Bears (various) > 50 ft :2

Close encounters with Bears (various) <20 ft : 1

Close encounters with Bears (various) <10 ft : 1

Close encounters with lightning < 100 ft : None....

 

So I'll take my chances with the lightning... fewer close encounters in my experience...

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Hearing all this talk of bears, mountain lions and guns

 

I can't ever read such threads without this mental image...

 

Hiker's Last Words:

"Dudley, that bear scat looks fresh, should we come back another time?"

"Don't worry about it honey, I got a big honkin' handgun, I ain't scared of no bear"

"Oh Dudley, you're my hero. With that big gun on I feel so safe with you! Of course we'll go on"

"Babycheeks, I need to step behind this bush for a moment, I'll just be right off the trail"

CRASH! CHOMP!

"Dudley?"

"Dudley???"

[+Star*Hopper]

Haven't read the whole thread so this might've been said already.....if so, whatever.

 

For those wondering about the 'mentality' or whatever of gun carriers, let me make one observation.

It is a matter of record that in every area that allows CC (concealed carry), the crime rate has gone down.

 

That addresses many things - foremost (my opinion) being that the criminals know others are armed, ergo....

 

Now, that said, that statistical factoid was being reported as recently as 3 years ago. I haven't checked in about that time, but believe it to still be true. It doesn't really matter to me whether it is or not - I believed it then, had no reason to doubt it, & still don't. One might say, I'm convinced.

 

And yes, I carry.

~*

 

"He who goes unarmed in paradise had better be damned sure that that is where he is." -- James Thurber

Edited August 27, 2008 by Star*Hopper

[+gr8johnson]

Well I live in Michigan. When MI was looking to pass legislation to allow CCW permits some pretty big politicians and law enforcement officials said it would be like the "old west" in MI. After it was passed and the permits were issued and more people were carrying after a while those same anti's had to eat their words and some big time law enforcement officials came out and admitted that the crime rate went down and there have not been any negative problems to date.

 

The funny thing about this is that I used to be against gun carrying. I did not see it value and thought just "rednecks" did it. Then I did some research because I hate being in an argue with some one and not know what I was talking about. So I wanted to find some negative info about states that issue concealed carry permits. Things I could use in an intelligent conversation. Well I did not find this negative info. Crime went down in the states with the right to carry. Very few bad incidents to speak of. So I stopped arguing about it. Then I got sick and tired of all the reports on the news about random shootings. Then I did some different research. Now I carry. My wife was a tough nut to crack because we have to young boys in the house. I told her to go and try to find one incident where a child was killed by a gun owned by some one who is a licensed weapon carrier. She came to our side after doing the research. We are a very responsible group of gun handlers. Most of us train in gun handling and shooting often. It is not a bunch of crack pots out there who want to go shoot some one. I hope and pray I never have to draw and god forbid shoot someone. Although drawing and shooting go hand in hand. I'm out.

Edited August 27, 2008 by gr8johnson

[Bag o'Tricks]

I sing when I'm walking alone in areas where bears have been seen. If that doesn't scare them off, nothing will.

 

In all seriousness, though, I can fully understand why someone would want to carry a weapon with them while hiking. I had a run-in with a human attacker while hiking alone along a trail in a populated suburban area. It was noon on a Sunday, I had hiked the trail at least two dozen times before that day, and I never would have imagined that someone would try something there, but they did. By some miracle, I-- a scrawny 5'3" girl-- was able to bloody the guy's nose and send him reeling long enough to run for the park entrance, where I met up with a jogging ex-Marine who escorted me the rest of the way out. I was extremely lucky. I wound up signing up for aikido after that, and was not brave enough to venture into the woods alone for almost two years. Even now, I rarely go out alone and usually take my dog with me.

 

I can completely understand why someone would want to carry a gun with them, especially if they prefer to be outdoors alone. The world isn't safe-- even in areas you think you know.

 

 

There are no ex-Marines.

 

Bag o'Tricks

[+briansnat]

Please don't mistake the following question for naivety, more like being incredulous at the amount of people willing to escalate situations to violence.

 

Why, with the exception of ShadowCachers who gave okay reasons for it, would you carry a gun with you on urban caches? In the woods, okay, there are bears. But why would someone carry a gun with them at ALL TIMES?

 

I don't carry a gun. I don't even own a gun (though I'm a card carrying NRA member). But in general you are way safer in the woods than you are in cities. I've been in several situations in urban areas where I would have felt a lot more comfortable if I had a firearm available. I've never felt a need for one in the woods.

[+StanByk]

Edit: I am talking about urban caches in the paragraph below:

I find opinions like yours just bizarre, but maybe this is an American - European culture clash. For me it is totally unthinkable to carry a gun around, but then we do not really have any problems with violence here. Is your fear really justified? Have you ever been in a situtation where you were in danger of loosing your live so that you needed to protect yourself with a gun. Again this just amazes me!

 

Why would some one carry a gun on them at all times? That question always makes me wonder what people watch on TV or read in the paper. I assure you that you would find many more reports about people getting attacked by people than wildlife. The crime rate in this country is still rising. With todays economic landscape people will go to extreme measures to try too survive. I will be more prepared to protect my family and myself if it happens. I do train with my fire arm regularly. But lets not turn this into an anti-gun thread though. To each his own. But hopefully if you or your family is ever in need of help, someone legally carrying a gun is there to help you.

Edited August 27, 2008 by StanByk

[+Kit Fox]

Edit: I am talking about urban caches in the paragraph below:

I find opinions like yours just bizarre, but maybe this is an American - European culture clash. For me it is totally unthinkable to carry a gun around, but then we do not really have any problems with violence here. Is your fear really justified? Have you ever been in a situtation where you were in danger of loosing your live so that you needed to protect yourself with a gun. Again this just amazes me!

 

It sure doesn't appear to be as peaceful in Belgium as you profess it to be. Here in the USA more people to prefer to be self reliant, rather than depend on the Govt. for our protection. Unless you live in a Police State, or the streets are filled with police, the chances of you encountering a "bad guy" without a police there to save you, are extremely high.

 

The false assumption that cachers or average citizens who prefer to carry a firearm for protection are "looking for someone to kill," or "out to shoot people," is based on fantasy perpetuated by professional victims.

[+sbell111]

In this thread the OP describes encountering someone trying to break into his truck at a cache site. He does not mention being armed. In this case he confronted the perp and the parp left the scene, but he could just as easily have attacked the OP.

 

How would you deal with such a situation if you were armed?

 

If you found someone breaking into your truck, would you be more likely to risk a confrontation?

 

If having a gun increases your confidence and likelihood of confronting the perp regardless of the risk that he may atack you, is it worth involving guns over a pickup truck?

I believe that most men would confront the person breaking into thier vehicle. They would yell at the guy to get away from the truck. Most of the time, this is going to result in the bad guy running off. If the owner had some amount of confidence that he would prevail in a physical confrontation due to size/skills/weapons/unrealistic ego/whatever he would take it one step further and attempt to remove the interloper from his vehicle. At that point, if it got physical, the vehicle owner would be within his rights, in my opinion, to use necessary force to protect himself and his vehicle (the second part obviously varies by local laws, but that just alters the official story, not the facts of the situation).

 

To answer your question, if I found someone breaking into my vehicle (especially my beloved convertible), I would risk a confrontation. I believe that most men would, even if they knew that the 'smart' thing would be to back off and call the police, who will be happy to show up twenty minutes later and write a report or advise you to come to them to submit a report.

[+sbell111]

Edit: I am talking about urban caches in the paragraph below:

I find opinions like yours just bizarre, but maybe this is an American - European culture clash. For me it is totally unthinkable to carry a gun around, but then we do not really have any problems with violence here. Is your fear really justified? Have you ever been in a situtation where you were in danger of loosing your live so that you needed to protect yourself with a gun. Again this just amazes me!

It sure doesn't appear to be as peaceful in Belgium as you profess it to be. Here in the USA more people to prefer to be self reliant, rather than depend on the Govt. for our protection. Unless you live in a Police State, or the streets are filled with police, the chances of you encountering a "bad guy" without a police there to save you, are extremely high.

 

The false assumption that cachers or average citizens who prefer to carry a firearm for protection are "looking for someone to kill," or "out to shoot people," is based on fantasy perpetuated by professional victims.

Your post reminds me of our olympic trip. We never felt safer wandering the streets of a foriegn city at night because of all the police/army standing around. There is that to be said about a totalitarian state. It makes for a safe place to visit briefly.

[+StanByk]

Don't know anything about crime in Belgium as I do not live there :-), just went there for a weekend trip.

I live in London and have lived most of my live in Austria and Germany. I have never encountered a dangerous situation in my life and neither have any of my friends, colleagues, relatives, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with unreasonable paranoia. Maybe the USA have a bigger problem with gun related crime - at least this is the way it is portrayed here in the media - I seriously don't know.

 

But let me ask again, have you or any of your friends ever been, even just once, been in a situation where there LIFE has been under serious threat?

 

Obviously we have crime here as well, but most of the violent crime is between gangs, people who know each other, etc. Rarely it affects "normal people". I know that reading the crime statistics can be quite scary, but when you read them be sure you don't take them out of their context, e.g. where does crime happen (bad areas?), who is involved (gangs, normal people?), is serious assault and bodily harm involved?

 

I for myself feel very safe everywhere here in Europe. I have been in the USA only once, in Boston, and I felt save there as well. I am just wondering if a lot of your worry is maybe unfounded.

 

 

Edit: I am talking about urban caches in the paragraph below:

I find opinions like yours just bizarre, but maybe this is an American - European culture clash. For me it is totally unthinkable to carry a gun around, but then we do not really have any problems with violence here. Is your fear really justified? Have you ever been in a situtation where you were in danger of loosing your live so that you needed to protect yourself with a gun. Again this just amazes me!

 

It sure doesn't appear to be as peaceful in Belgium as you profess it to be. Here in the USA more people to prefer to be self reliant, rather than depend on the Govt. for our protection. Unless you live in a Police State, or the streets are filled with police, the chances of you encountering a "bad guy" without a police there to save you, are extremely high.

 

The false assumption that cachers or average citizens who prefer to carry a firearm for protection are "looking for someone to kill," or "out to shoot people," is based on fantasy perpetuated by professional victims.

Edited August 27, 2008 by StanByk

[+sbell111]

Don't know anything about crime in Belgium as I do not live there :-), just went there for a weekend trip.

I live in London and have lived most of my live in Austria and Germany. I have never encountered a dangerous situation in my life and neither have any of my friends, colleagues, relatives, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with unreasonable paranoia. Maybe the USA have a bigger problem with gun related crime - at least this is the way it is portrayed here in the media - I seriously don't know.

 

But let me ask again, have you or any of your friends ever been, even just once, been in a situation where there LIFE has been under serious threat?

 

Obviously we have crime here as well, but most of the violent crime is between gangs, people who know each other, etc. Rarely it affects "normal people". I know that reading the crime statistics can be quite scary, but when you read them be sure you don't take them out of their context, e.g. where does crime happen (bad areas?), who is involved (gangs, normal people?), is serious assault and bodily harm involved?

 

I for myself feel very safe everywhere here in Europe. I have been in the USA only once, in Boston, and I felt save there as well. I am just wondering if a lot of your worry is maybe unfounded.

There is a difference between unlikely and inconceivable. Just as you have experienced, it is unlikely that any one of us will ever experience violent crime. However, the very fact that it is 'unlikely' not 'impossible' means that there is some chance of it happening. Therefore, an ounce of prevention is seen as a good thing by many people.

 

Think of it this way, I read somewhere (so it has to be true ) that most police officers never have a need to remove their weapons from their holsters except for practice and cleaning. Using your argument, police shouldn't carry weapons.

 

Another analogy that is frequently offered is smoke alarms and fire extinguishers. These are rarely needed, yet we all feel safer for having them.

 

When I was in elementary school, they made us drill on what we would do in the event of nuclear war. I like to believe that the possibility of nuclear war was somewhat remote, but we still had the drill (which strangely would have saved none of us).

[+StanByk]

I understand your point, but my big worry is that easy access to guns leads to more crime rather than less crime

I read somewhere that the number of homicides is directly related to the number of people which carry guns (% households with firearms). In this statistic the USA had by far the most gun deathes per 100 000 inhabitants, twice as many as Switzerland, where it is as easy to obtain guns as in the states, and 10 times as many than in most European states.

 

Regarding your point about police not carrying guns. They don't here in England...

 

 

Don't know anything about crime in Belgium as I do not live there :-), just went there for a weekend trip.

I live in London and have lived most of my live in Austria and Germany. I have never encountered a dangerous situation in my life and neither have any of my friends, colleagues, relatives, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with unreasonable paranoia. Maybe the USA have a bigger problem with gun related crime - at least this is the way it is portrayed here in the media - I seriously don't know.

 

But let me ask again, have you or any of your friends ever been, even just once, been in a situation where there LIFE has been under serious threat?

 

Obviously we have crime here as well, but most of the violent crime is between gangs, people who know each other, etc. Rarely it affects "normal people". I know that reading the crime statistics can be quite scary, but when you read them be sure you don't take them out of their context, e.g. where does crime happen (bad areas?), who is involved (gangs, normal people?), is serious assault and bodily harm involved?

 

I for myself feel very safe everywhere here in Europe. I have been in the USA only once, in Boston, and I felt save there as well. I am just wondering if a lot of your worry is maybe unfounded.

There is a difference between unlikely and inconceivable. Just as you have experienced, it is unlikely that any one of us will ever experience violent crime. However, the very fact that it is 'unlikely' not 'impossible' means that there is some chance of it happening. Therefore, an ounce of prevention is seen as a good thing by many people.

 

Think of it this way, I read somewhere (so it has to be true ) that most police officers never have a need to remove their weapons from their holsters except for practice and cleaning. Using your argument, police shouldn't carry weapons.

 

Another analogy that is frequently offered is smoke alarms and fire extinguishers. These are rarely needed, yet we all feel safer for having them.

 

When I was in elementary school, they made us drill on what we would do in the event of nuclear war. I like to believe that the possibility of nuclear war was somewhat remote, but we still had the drill (which strangely would have saved none of us).

Edited August 27, 2008 by StanByk

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Regarding your point about police not carrying guns. They don't here in England...

 

That's not entirely correct.

 

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/986379.stm

 

Rising gun crimes have meant that in one part of the UK police officers are routinely wearing firearms while on foot patrol.

 

Nottinghamshire police took the decision after a series of shootings on two of the city's estates, sparked by rival gangs of drug dealers.

 

The police say the break from tradition is about stopping gun violence becoming the norm, and preventing murder.