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Feature request:


Pacific Stereo

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I've run across something I find highly annoying, I wonder if anyone else is bothered by this?

 

While I think adding extra functionality and features for people willing to pony up some cash is a great idea, I am not enamored of the "members-only" premium caches; I think it's rather elitist and counter to the spirit of "everybody gets to play."

 

That being said, premium-only caches didn't matter to me until my one and only trackable item ended up in one. Now, my item is in a virtual black-hole, and will be until someone takes it out and moves it.

 

My feature request is simple. Allow owners of trackable items that are placed in premium caches to see certain aspects of that cache. Not all, but some. If you are the owner of a trackable item that is located in a premium cache, you should be able to:

 

1) See the cache description and any logs.

2) See the gallery.

3) See where the cache is on the map (Not exactly, of course. Use a script to jiggle the coordinates around so that it displays reasonably near where the cache is).

4) Contact the cache owner.

 

Obviously, you don't get to make log entries or download coordinates or anything else like that.

 

It would really be neat to be always able to see where your item is living, that's half the fun of watching it move.

 

Anyone else think this would be nice?

 

-Pacific

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Sounds like a good idea. In fact, I'd simply make it so the owner of a TB can see the cache like any paying member. After all, didn't you spend good money to buy the TB tag? You contributed to the site and you've shown you're not just some schmo off the street.

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Anyone else think this would be nice?

 

-Pacific

 

No not really. In my opinion all caches should be 'Premium'. The cost for maintaining this 'free' website is far from 'free' and someone have to cough up the dough to pay for it.

 

I see the 'problem' you describe more to be an oppertunity to become a Premium Member.

Edited by lrosell
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Unfortunately this would be ripe for abuse.

 

Since there is a well-known "back door" approach for non-PMs to be able to log PM-only caches, this scenario could easily happen: Non-PM logs a PM-only cache, and virtually drops one of his own bugs in along with the log; the full details of the cache are now available to him until he grabs the TB back.

Edited by the hermit crabs
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Unfortunately this would be ripe for abuse.

 

Since there is a well-known "back door" approach for non-PMs to be able to log PM-only caches, this scenario could easily happen: Non-PM logs a PM-only cache, and virtually drops one of his own bugs in along with the log; the full details of the cache are now available to him until he grabs the TB back.

Hmm... Good point.

 

A bit of programming could make it so only PMs could drop TBs in MOCs. If you've got a PM friend who could drop the TB in a MOC, then the same friend could simply hand you a printout of the cache. This would mean the family member who is the PM would have to grab the TB to drop it in the cache. No big deal considering the non-PM family member have access to the cache info anyway.

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Anyone else think this would be nice?

 

-Pacific

 

No not really. In my opinion all caches should be 'Premium'. The cost for maintaining this 'free' website is far from 'free' and someone have to cough up the dough to pay for it.

 

I see the 'problem' you describe more to be an oppertunity to become a Premium Member.

 

Using that theory, then perhaps Groundspeak should pay us to place caches (Product) for them. :rolleyes:

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I became a Premium Member so I could get PQs.

Some of the other perks are nice, but I really couldn't give a half-dead AA about MO caches.

On the other hand, there ARE some owners who would really not be happy if ANY non-member could view their cache.

Many TB owners will tell you to be happy that your TB is presumably still out there and moving!

I do see your point that you might want to look at any pictures there on the page, but really, what else is there to look at?

 

Given that there is some functionality to distinguish the owner of a cache a TB is reported to be in, perhaps the reciprocal is possible?

I would favor the possibility of a TB owner to see an abbreviated page (basically the same as you get for a non-MOC when you aren't signed in (i.e. no maps and no co-ordinates)).

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I've run across something I find highly annoying, I wonder if anyone else is bothered by this?

 

While I think adding extra functionality and features for people willing to pony up some cash is a great idea, I am not enamored of the "members-only" premium caches; I think it's rather elitist and counter to the spirit of "everybody gets to play."

 

That being said, premium-only caches didn't matter to me until my one and only trackable item ended up in one. Now, my item is in a virtual black-hole, and will be until someone takes it out and moves it.

 

My feature request is simple. Allow owners of trackable items that are placed in premium caches to see certain aspects of that cache. Not all, but some. If you are the owner of a trackable item that is located in a premium cache, you should be able to:

 

1) See the cache description and any logs.

2) See the gallery.

3) See where the cache is on the map (Not exactly, of course. Use a script to jiggle the coordinates around so that it displays reasonably near where the cache is).

4) Contact the cache owner.

 

Obviously, you don't get to make log entries or download coordinates or anything else like that.

 

It would really be neat to be always able to see where your item is living, that's half the fun of watching it move.

 

Anyone else think this would be nice?

 

-Pacific

Basically what you are also saying is "I don't even want my TB to go into non GC.com sanctioned caches"

And with that in mind what happened to...

"everybody gets to play."

 

-Pacific

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Anyone else think this would be nice?

 

-Pacific

 

No not really. In my opinion all caches should be 'Premium'. The cost for maintaining this 'free' website is far from 'free' and someone have to cough up the dough to pay for it.

 

I see the 'problem' you describe more to be an oppertunity to become a Premium Member.

 

Using that theory, then perhaps Groundspeak should pay us to place caches (Product) for them. :rolleyes:

 

My my, did you miss the point...

 

A question: if people using GC.COM do not pay for this service, who should? Taxpayers? Just curious...

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Adding new features means thinking comprehensively about all the ways the addition can affect other areas of the system.

 

So far, every problem and issue described by people against an idea like this are simple code issues. I am of the opinion that if one can accurately describe the problem, then one can code for it and solve it. There shouldn't be a backdoor into an MOC to log it. If one isn't a premium member, then one should not get to make log entries, or see coordinates, or anything else that can materially affect a premium cache.

 

But I'd like to see approximately where my bug is. I'd like to know who its temporary friends are! Maybe I'd like to Google Earth the approximate location and see if it's a shopping mall or a mountain top. That's all.

 

I don't want to log the cache, I don't want to know exactly where it is, I don't want to know anything like that.

 

In my opinion all caches should be 'Premium'. The cost for maintaining this 'free' website is far from 'free' and someone have to cough up the dough to pay for it.

If that's really an issue, then I would say you make everyone pay for membership.

 

Since there is a well-known "back door" approach for non-PMs to be able to log PM-only caches, this scenario could easily happen: Non-PM logs a PM-only cache, and virtually drops one of his own bugs in along with the log; the full details of the cache are now available to him until he grabs the TB back.

Then you code to make it not possible for a bug owner to do this. I'm saying you can't log, can't post a photo, can't see coordinates, can't drop a bug... none of that. All you can do is see some information, not all.

 

A bit of programming could make it so only PMs could drop TBs in MOCs.

Exactly. If you're a plebe, you don't get to drop the bug into an MOC. And again, you don't get to see anything about the cache unless your bug is in it.

 

On the other hand, there ARE some owners who would really not be happy if ANY non-member could view their cache

If you truly mean non-members, then yes, of course. But otherwise, why? Are there nudie pictures on it? I don't understand why anyone would care. I would think one would be bothered if NPMs could FIND the cache, not simply view parts of it.

 

Alternately, you could pony up $3 for a month and see the cache while your TB is in it.

It's true, I could do that. But the premium features don't interest me and hold no value for me. They do for others, and that's why they're there. Alternatively, if I were a premium member, we would not be having this interesting conversation!

 

Basically what you are also saying is "I don't even want my TB to go into non GC.com sanctioned caches"

And with that in mind what happened to... (my quote)["everybody gets to play."

 

No, you have added a concept that I was not even aware of. That's not what I am saying. I don't know what a non-sanctioned cache is. But if my bug is in one, can I view where it is without reaching into my wallet? I am saying that if my bug is in an MOC, I want to be able to see a bit more. That's all. As far as "everybody gets to play," since premium members are the subset and inherit all the properties of the plebes, everyone DOES get to play when going in that direction. As far as non-GS members, shall we reduce this to the absurd?

 

This is fun, let's keep talking about it!

 

-Pacific

 

Edit: typo

Edited by Pacific Stereo
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Alternately, you could pony up $3 for a month and see the cache while your TB is in it.

It's true, I could do that. But the premium features don't interest me and hold no value for me. They do for others, and that's why they're there. Alternatively, if I were a premium member, we would not be having this interesting conversation!

 

 

Sounds like this feature holds some value to you.

 

There are a lot of cases for things that "could" be done, but Groundspeak has chosen not to do them for business reasons. While I'm not saying this is the case here, I can understand an argument for if you'd like to see the TB/cache information on this MOC, then it's an incentive to become a premium member.

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No, you have added a concept that I was not even aware of. That's not what I am saying. I don't know what a non-sanctioned cache is. But if my bug is in one, can I view where it is without reaching into my wallet? I am saying that if my bug is in an MOC, I want to be able to see a bit more. That's all. As far as "everybody gets to play," since premium members are the subset and inherit all the properties of the plebes, everyone DOES get to play when going in that direction. As far as non-GS members, shall we reduce this to the absurd?

 

This is fun, let's keep talking about it!

 

-Pacific

non-sanctioned

That would simple be a cache listed else where. Now knowing nothing about TB I have to ask "Can I log its drop to specific coordinates?" if so that solves you problem for future bugs, just ask that that is how they are logged.

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... everyone DOES get to play when going in that direction. As far as non-GS members, shall we reduce this to the absurd?

 

 

Everyone DOES get to play. Premium members just get to play a little more. You should try it!!! :sad:

 

:sad:

Edited by lrosell
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Everyone DOES get to play. Premium members just get to play a little more. You should try it!!!
Nope. No, thanks.

 

-Pacific

Ya know, if you don't register to vote and do so then you don't have any right to complain about the elected politicians. If you don't pay the entrance fee then you have no right to complain about the entertainment. In any given venue you may have restricted access to the event. It might be sight lines or it might be something else. Make your choice as to how much of the game you want to see and don't complain because you can't see something that you decided not to pay for.

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Anyone else think this would be nice?

 

-Pacific

 

No not really. In my opinion all caches should be 'Premium'. The cost for maintaining this 'free' website is far from 'free' and someone have to cough up the dough to pay for it.

 

I see the 'problem' you describe more to be an oppertunity to become a Premium Member.

 

Using that theory, then perhaps Groundspeak should pay us to place caches (Product) for them. :sad:

 

My my, did you miss the point...

 

A question: if people using GC.COM do not pay for this service, who should? Taxpayers? Just curious...

Hmmmm, a couple points here. The cost for the free website? Like any free website, it's paid for by advertisers, not taxpayers or members only. Simple concept, and it's been keeping free websites free for several years now.

 

Aside from those feeble arguments, I agree that member benefits should remain in the hands of members. If people don't like it...they can move on. Capitalism is great like that.

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Didn't any of the naysayers notice the point CR made in post #2; Travel Bug owners paid money to be able to track their travel bug on Geocaching.com. The OP is not looking for a backdoor for non premium members to find PMO caches. He is asking for TB owners to be able follow their travel bug when it is in a PMO cache. The travel bug owner may want to see the logs of visitors to the cache - if only to see if they saw the bug or took it and perhaps to see pictures of the bug. And the bug owner may want to post a note on the page - perhaps to ask the next finder to move their bug along. And perhaps they would want to contact the cache owner if their bug seems to have gotten stuck or to check if the bug is missing so it can be moved to an unknown location. As far as having an idea of where the bug is, don't they already seen that on the TB's map?

 

It seems to me that those who have paid to track a bug or a coin are already supporting GC.com. While they shouldn't get premium members privileges, like the coordinates of PMO caches, it is a reasonable request that they can see the logs on these pages while their bug is in the cache and perhaps be able to leave notes on the cache page to encourage that their bugs get moved.

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Everyone DOES get to play. Premium members just get to play a little more. You should try it!!!
Nope. No, thanks.

 

-Pacific

Ya know, if you don't register to vote and do so then you don't have any right to complain about the elected politicians. If you don't pay the entrance fee then you have no right to complain about the entertainment. In any given venue you may have restricted access to the event. It might be sight lines or it might be something else. Make your choice as to how much of the game you want to see and don't complain because you can't see something that you decided not to pay for.

You know, he did contribute to the site. Why couldn't he get some benefit of that?

 

This has been an ongoing issue for a long time. Some folks contribute by placing caches which up the count, and thus "value," for this site. Some buy merchandise from the store. Only those who pay directly to the site get the PM benefits.

 

...or buy a Colorado.

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Hmmmm, a couple points here. The cost for the free website? Like any free website, it's paid for by advertisers, not taxpayers or members only. Simple concept, and it's been keeping free websites free for several years now.

 

Aside from those feeble arguments, I agree that member benefits should remain in the hands of members. If people don't like it...they can move on. Capitalism is great like that.

 

You don't seriously think that Ads pay all the bills for running GC.COM, do you...?

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i don't like PMO caches on principle. i don't find them and i don't log them.

 

if, however, your TB ends up in one, i fail to see the crisis that you can't see it while it's there. if it ends up in the bottom of my bag for a few weeks you can't see it there no matter how much you pay.

 

pony up the $3/month or be happy with the HUGE part of this service that's available for free.

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You don't seriously think that Ads pay all the bills for running GC.COM, do you...?

 

Well, that is the concept...and reason for advertisements on websites; they pay for the website. If they don't pay the bills, why have them; out of the goodness of Groundpseak's heart? I hardly think so.

 

Back on topic: In addition, if the OP wants to view the status of their trackable that's in a MO cache, how about...this is a radical idea, I know...they view that status on the trackable's own page? Isn't that what it's for?

Edited by golfgunny
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You don't seriously think that Ads pay all the bills for running GC.COM, do you...?

 

Well, that is the concept...and reason for advertisements on websites; they pay for the website. If they don't pay the bills, why have them; out of the goodness of Groundpseak's heart? I hardly think so.

 

Back on topic: In addition, if the OP wants to view the status of their trackable that's in a MO cache, how about...this is a radical idea, I know...they view that status on the trackable's own page? Isn't that what it's for?

 

Oh no, you're not getting of that easy. :unsure:

 

I said ALL of the cost. Naturally ads do pay for part of the cost but paying members is vital for the existence of this site. It’s beyond me how people can demand more gravy on the free lunch they are already receiving.

 

Like it was said previously: unless you register to vote and vote, you have no right to complain about the state of the union.

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The OP has "voted". He/She has put out 5 caches, at no cost to Groundspeak. And Groundspeak has chosen to make the site available to free members. Nothing stopping them from making it a pay only site.....except common sense.

 

I don't think it is an unreasonable request.

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You're allowed to add whatever goals and restrictions you want to to your TB. It's always a good idea to print those out and bag the whole thing. Keeps everything together. If you didn't say "No PM caches" on the bug's page, you really don't have any reason to complain.

 

That said, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to add a link to the cache owner's profile after the cache name on the TB page. Useful for everyone.

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The OP has "voted". He/She has put out 5 caches, at no cost to Groundspeak. And Groundspeak has chosen to make the site available to free members. Nothing stopping them from making it a pay only site.....except common sense.

 

I don't think it is an unreasonable request.

 

Oh. OK! :unsure:

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My internet connection went down hard while I was in the middle of replying to this a couple of days ago, so here's a synopsis:

 

I'm not going to quote all over again. (And BTW, nested quotes consisting of nested quotes...? Wow.)

 

First and foremost, I am registered to vote. :) Oh, wait, that was a metaphor for site participation. Well, as Tequila eloquently said, I have voted by placing caches, buying trackables and participating. And I will continue to do so. I love our little community, and love the game. I've made new friends, met historical figures that I didn't know were still alive, seen things up close that I have whizzed by at 65 MPH many times but never stopped to look at... It's awesome! I enjoy it, and have introduced others to the sport.

 

Secondly, I am not complaining. I titled this thread FEATURE REQUEST, not "THIS SUCKS!!" Please don't read it as such.

 

Viewing the status of the trackable on its page? Yes, one can indeed do that. Unfortunately, when the bug is in a PMO cache, that's about all one can see about it, with the exception noted below.

 

As far as paying for premium membership, the cost is trivial. That isn't my reason for not going premium.

 

tozainamboku said it all better than I ever could. Thanks, guy!

 

And he is right, the location can be seen via the Google Earth option on the bug's page. BTW, one can also see the (gulp) PMO cache coordinates by querying the displayed waypoint. (Ooops, yet another back door discovered! If you really want the coordinates of a PMO cache, make sure it has a bug in it!) However, there does not seem to be a regular 2D map on the bug page, am I missing something?

 

There is one other issue that applies here, as well. Suppose my bug has been sitting in a premium cache somewhere, and it's been there for, say, two months. I might want to know if anyone has visited that cache in the last two months. Or, if the bug has been hoarded, I might wish to be able to contact the cache owner and request a check, or ask a recent visitor to ask if they might remember seeing it there. If it's truly gone, then I mark it as MIA. But if I can not know that with certainty, how do I proceed?

 

I love seeing everyone's opinion, and it's quite obvious that folks are very divided on this. I am not known for bringing up bland conversation, so here we are. :)

 

And I come back after a couple of days of blindness and find a website makeover. How fun! Now to go check it out.

 

-Pacific

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I've been told that if you are not a PM then you should have no PM privileges.

 

But in your case, you got the email stating that the bug is in that cache, therefore you have the URL of the log. You can read that.

You also can post a note on the PMO cache using the backdoor method if you want to have someone or the owner move the bug right away.

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