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TB "thieves"


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Big rant! Why doesn't anyone follow up when geocachers "keep" (steal, sell, add to their personal collection or whatever) travelbugs, geocoins or jeeps? If I track back logs I often see geocachers say things like "grabbed from this cache and will move along soon". Then you see they never did. I found one geocacher who from the logs appears to have collected one jeep travel bug from every year they were issued. And each time he/she took one they said they would move it along. How come cache owners never follow up on these logs? How come geocaching.com doesn't do anything? I have placed two travel bugs and now 3 coins. Of those one travel bug is gone and one coin almost from the minute I dropped it in a cache. The last two coins I just dropped and I don't expect they will last long either. So depressing! Why can't people look and not take?

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Unfortunately as soon as you deploy a GC or a TB, you're basically saying goodbye to it.

Better watch what you write or some of the "not too brights" will jump all over you. :D

I wrote almost the exact same words in a similar thread and several called me a thief and supporting thieves. I never could figure out their thought process but some how in their wee minds I guess it made sense to extrapolate the statement such as yours (and mine) into "thief". Beyond me how they came to the conclusion tho. (And to think these are the same people juries are made from.) Some seemed to think that after they released a TB that they somehow maintained control over it altho they never could explain exactly what control they thought they had.

The life of a TB/coin is often short and mysterious. Sometimes they pop back into circulation many months and sometimes years after being given up for lost.

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I've had fantastic luck with TBs, some of mine have been traveling for years.

 

I did have one stolen, quite brazenly...

 

My Northern Exposure TB, a moose that reminded me of that show, traveled from Alabama to the Arctic Circle to visit other moose (meese?) and was stolen on it's way home somewhere in Oregon.

 

After several months of no activity I contacted the cacher who last logged having it, asked him to drop it in a cache or mail it to me... he told me that his dog liked it for a chew toy so he was keeping it!

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Of the 28 TB's and coins I have released in the past 18 months, only 14 are still in circulation; of the missing 14, 12 are confirmed missing from caches and 2 were last logged some time ago by newbie 'cachers that are no longer active. Only one of of the MIA coins was justified - an animal destroyed a cache and the good samaritan that fixed the cache couldn't find the coin in the leaves, etc., and sent me an email. Coins definitely go missing more than TB's. IMO, releasing trackable is a waste of time and money - I'm not emotionally attached to them, but I do expect them to travel a bit - I have had ine coin disappear from its initial placement in an island cache! I still have a few unactivated coins on hand that I'll put as FTF prizes - at least I know where they go and the recipients are grateful!

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How come geocaching.com doesn't do anything?

 

Because a geocache listing site is not the police. Then it's he said, she said. Who does Geocache believe? Maybe they dropped it and forgot to log it....and someone else actually took it.

 

Geocache is a sport that largely depends on people doing the right thing.

Edited by PhxChem
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I make my coins less desirable for collectors aka theives. I drill holes through my travel coins and put small pad locks through the hole. I epoxy the lock hole and add a travel tag.

 

So far I have only one coin go missing and that was my first one that I didn't do any modifications to.

 

I agree all it takes is a set of bolt cutters and the lock is gone but the hole is still through the coin, so it really kills it for theives.

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We have only two T.B.s out and don't plan on any more.

 

One , "Reeley Tall Tales", sat for months and eventually landed in Denmark. THAT one is now traveling around a bit. Go figure.

 

The other, "V Twin", was grabbed by a "cacher" in N.C. in Apr '07 and hasn't been seen since. (He has quite a few others as well.)

E-mailed him and his separate-account wife a few times and even asked another to act as intermediary - no response at all.

Shame, that one cost a few bucks.

 

CJ seems to fare better with coins.

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How come geocaching.com doesn't do anything?

 

Because a geocache listing site is not the police. Then it's he said, she said. Who does Geocache believe? Maybe they dropped it and forgot to log it....and someone else actually took it.

 

Geocache is a sport that largely depends on people doing the right thing.

 

Yep, Travel Bugs AND Geocaches are private property that have been left in public trust.....

 

 

SSSooOOOoOOo, how much do you REALLY trust the public??? :D:D:angry:

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Yup, if you send out a coin or a TB you've got to pretty much figure they will end up as swag for somebody such as cachers who are less than honorable when it comes to respecting the objective of the items and the owners who spent good money to spread a little joy for those who find their fun items and take them home for a visit before passing them along for someone else to enjoy or else by muggles who stumble on the cache.

My brother was telling about a TB he had that went missing several months ago. Seems it just turned up again with a note from the last logger who said he found the item at someones garage sale, bought it and put it back into play.

Both my TBs have gone AWOL. One from a cache that the owner reported was muggled and the other, Fancy Footwork, was last reported to be in Vermont. Maybe it is still sitting there and just needs to be rescued.

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We've had both good and bad luck with our TBs. Our Christmas Golfer never made it to the 2nd cache. Stolen out of the first one we put it in. I even drilled a hole through its belly to make it less desirable.

 

Making a TB "less collectible" will increase its lifespan. For example, a golf ball with a hole drilled through and the tag attached will probably fare pretty well. But our Christmas Golfer was just too cute. I'm hoping that it went to some snot-nosed child of an over-indulgent parent, that whined until the TB was pinched to shut him up. Or perhaps some newbe that didn't know the concept of a TB. I don't want think that there are dishonest people out there that just steal things because it's cute.

 

Personally, I would feel horrible if I were the cause of someone's TB disapearing.

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... I don't want think that there are dishonest people out there that just steal things because it's cute.

Count on it - there are!

 

However, this whole game is based on trust, and it works, proving that there are far more honest players than dishonest.

 

The fact is that good behavior gets no attention, whereas bad behavior gets pointed out, so just like in the media all you see is the negative.

 

Having found a few thousand caches in 29 states and met hundreds of geocachers my experience has shown me that geocachers as a whole are, for whatever reason, a cut above any other informal group I have ever been associated with.

 

For example, my son's 2003 Birmingham Barons Baseball Southeast Championship ring, worth hundreds both as a ring and as a collectors item, traveled as Baron Bug TB for 18 months over 7,000 and came safely home.

 

To my knowledge all but 2 of my 50 TBs are still moving, the 48 remaining have logged 125,946 miles total!

 

Ooops... That number is only partial... glad this came up to make me look at it... I just noticed that half, 25, of my bugs register 0 miles... dunno why, I will have to look into that. So just 23 of my TBs have traveled a total of 125,946! I will have to figure out why the others show no miles, some of them I know for fact are well-traveled.

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I've had fantastic luck with TBs, some of mine have been traveling for years.

 

I did have one stolen, quite brazenly...

 

My Northern Exposure TB, a moose that reminded me of that show, traveled from Alabama to the Arctic Circle to visit other moose (meese?) and was stolen on it's way home somewhere in Oregon.

 

After several months of no activity I contacted the cacher who last logged having it, asked him to drop it in a cache or mail it to me... he told me that his dog liked it for a chew toy so he was keeping it!

If something like that happened to me with a travelbug of mine, I would have no compunctions about outing the cacher here and in the travel bug area. I'd post an entry naming the cacher as a thief, plain and simple.

 

But that's just me.

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Big rant! Why doesn't anyone follow up when geocachers "keep" (steal, sell, add to their personal collection or whatever) travelbugs, geocoins or jeeps? If I track back logs I often see geocachers say things like "grabbed from this cache and will move along soon". Then you see they never did. I found one geocacher who from the logs appears to have collected one jeep travel bug from every year they were issued. And each time he/she took one they said they would move it along. How come cache owners never follow up on these logs? How come geocaching.com doesn't do anything? I have placed two travel bugs and now 3 coins. Of those one travel bug is gone and one coin almost from the minute I dropped it in a cache. The last two coins I just dropped and I don't expect they will last long either. So depressing! Why can't people look and not take?

A couple of misconceptions in here I can see.

1. A cache owner likely doesn't own the TB. That being said, it sometimes can take days and even weeks for someone to log the TB into a new location. We cache owners hesitate to pull a TB out of circulation based on assumptions until it is for certain lost. Fixing the mileage on a TB pulled out of circulation can be a PITA.

 

2. What can geocaching.com do?

 

3. Sometimes these TBs are simply lost and then found during one spring cleaning session.

 

4. People are people. Unless you fence them in, you can't control them very well.

 

It's like that saying, when you set it free, if it comes back to you, its yours. If it doesn't come back it never was. So my advisement is to get over it and get on with having fun in a way that won't frustrate you. Instead of creating TBs. I now just put in unactivated TBs. I can't lose.

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Well ElBandito013 is stelaing caches in Ohio with any TB or coins in them and then leaving a post to say he stole the cache. Recently he stole GCVYBT and then left the message saying basically no s*** it is gone - I stole it. When I find out who he is he will be dealt with.

It's just a game, and you're a better man than that, just let it go. Karma will take care of him!

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If they logged a find and said that they'd be moving it along soon, odds are that real life has come into play: they haven't been caching, they haven't found a suitable cache (be glad that they are thinking about that aspect) it dropped behind the car seat, the dog ate it, etc.

 

If they were going to steal it, why would they post a "Found it" log? If anything, I'd expect them to post a note that it wasn't in the cache.

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Big rant! Why doesn't anyone follow up when geocachers "keep" (steal, sell, add to their personal collection or whatever) travelbugs, geocoins or jeeps? If I track back logs I often see geocachers say things like "grabbed from this cache and will move along soon". Then you see they never did. I found one geocacher who from the logs appears to have collected one jeep travel bug from every year they were issued. And each time he/she took one they said they would move it along. How come cache owners never follow up on these logs? How come geocaching.com doesn't do anything? I have placed two travel bugs and now 3 coins. Of those one travel bug is gone and one coin almost from the minute I dropped it in a cache. The last two coins I just dropped and I don't expect they will last long either. So depressing! Why can't people look and not take?

 

For many this is such a touchy subject and it took me quite a while to realize that once you put a TB into the wild it is just that "In The Wild". So anything goes and it sucks that there are people out there that get great joy taking from others or no remorse to items or people that they take from. Unfortunately I did not realize this until after I was into geocaching for awhile and had to learn the hard way.

 

In my case the people who logged the take have been members since 2004 and never have logged a single cache, TB or anything else since they joined. Yet take the time to hit the new caches and take what they want with no regret.. Just plain sucks but now I understand how a small fraction of our community works.

:D Fortunately I do not work that way and have several TB Hotels to help them along for as long as I can.

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Yep, Travel Bugs AND Geocaches are private property that have been left in public trust.....

 

Although geocaching is available for most people, caches are not really in the "public trust" until they are not rehidden properly and left out in the open. :(

 

I really wish the site would collect valid ID info for all the users and make it a bit less public.

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...I really wish the site would collect valid ID info for all the users and make it a bit less public.

Although this is not a big issue for me, I fully agree. I believe that it would be of great benefit, and in a number of areas and from a number of perspectives, if only a tiny sampling of "easier" cache listings were allowed to be viewable/browsable by relative casual strangers, i.e., casual visitors to the site and folks who possess only an equivalent of what is currently considered to be a basic membership, and rather, if the vast majority of "regular" cache listings and all Premium level and all Platinum level cache listings were viewable ONLY by folks who had passed serious and fairly rigorous identity screening. This concept is hardly new -- it is already done for "adult content" websites and for all kinds of sites bearing sensitive information, including banking websites, corporate sites, industrial supply sites, commercial transaction sites, credit card merchant sites, fee-based-access sites, and etcetera. Yes, it is true that implementing such a moderately-rigorous identity-verification screening process would likely immediately eliminate at least 10% of the so-called "membership rolls" for a variety of reason, but I do not see that attrition as undesirable at all, and rather, in fact, I see it as highly desirable!

 

Now, if only some kind of DNA-examination-based identity screening could also be put in place, to eliminate from the membership rolls alien reptoid reptilian shapeshifers such as 4wheelin_fool... hmmmm.....

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I really wish the site would collect valid ID info for all the users and make it a bit less public.

That would solve more problems than anything else!

 

I suggested this to Groundspeak years ago and still think it's a good idea... if folks want anonymous public screen names, fine, but Groundspeak should know the true identity of every member. People could then be held to account for their misbehavior.

 

In fact ID should be required to access the Internet at all, something that I have been a proponent of since before the Internet as we know it even existed.

 

There is no valid reason that anyone posting to the internet, and in microcosm this website, need be anonymous.

 

People should be identifiable and therefore accountable for their behavior.

 

Want to stop porn, spam, virus, trolls, flamers, etc? Make every poster attributable for every post and you will clean things up in a hurry!

 

I have no idea how or if anonymity could be eradicated, but oh man what a better experience we would all have!

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I really wish the site would collect valid ID info for all the users and make it a bit less public.

That would solve more problems than anything else!

 

I suggested this to Groundspeak years ago and still think it's a good idea... if folks want anonymous public screen names, fine, but Groundspeak should know the true identity of every member. People could then be held to account for their misbehavior.

 

In fact ID should be required to access the Internet at all, something that I have been a proponent of since before the Internet as we know it even existed.

 

There is no valid reason that anyone posting to the internet, and in microcosm this website, need be anonymous.

 

People should be identifiable and therefore accountable for their behavior.

 

Want to stop porn, spam, virus, trolls, flamers, etc? Make every poster attributable for every post and you will clean things up in a hurry!

 

I have no idea how or if anonymity could be eradicated, but oh man what a better experience we would all have!

Extremely well said. Your suggestions would cure a lot of problems. Sorry about anyone's TB loss as we have lost a couple too. Sometimes the loss in not due to theft but to accidents or forgetfulness.

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I really wish the site would collect valid ID info for all the users and make it a bit less public.

That would solve more problems than anything else!

 

I suggested this to Groundspeak years ago and still think it's a good idea... if folks want anonymous public screen names, fine, but Groundspeak should know the true identity of every member. People could then be held to account for their misbehavior.

 

In fact ID should be required to access the Internet at all, something that I have been a proponent of since before the Internet as we know it even existed.

 

There is no valid reason that anyone posting to the internet, and in microcosm this website, need be anonymous.

 

People should be identifiable and therefore accountable for their behavior.

 

Want to stop porn, spam, virus, trolls, flamers, etc? Make every poster attributable for every post and you will clean things up in a hurry!

 

I have no idea how or if anonymity could be eradicated, but oh man what a better experience we would all have!

Well put comrade. I believe freedoms should be taken away to gratify the very few for their very selfish reasons. :ph34r:

 

That being said:

 

In fact ID should be required to access the Internet at all, something that I have been a proponent of since before the Internet as we know it even existed.

Unless I'm mistaken, there's nothing anonymous about the name on the bill I pay for my Internet access.

Edited by TotemLake
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Well put comrade. I believe freedoms should be taken away to gratify the very few for their very selfish reasons.

Comrade? Freedom taken away? I don't know of any 'right to anonymity', but what would such a right provide? The only reason to be anonymous is to act without accountability or responsibility. Look at the mess folks have made of anonymity, first with CB Radio and now with the Internet! Unfortunately the dark creepy-crawlies of the human psyche spring to life when folks are allowed anonymity.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, there's nothing anonymous about the name on the bill I pay for my Internet access.

If you posted under the name on that bill that would be one thing, but you are known online only as TotemLake, not by the name on that bill. I seriously doubt that the folks to whom you pay that bill know that you are TotemLake, even they could not put accountability for TotemLake's actions towards TheNameOnThatBill, so to them as to us you are anonymous.

 

If you were to post something ugly only someone who knows that TotemLake = TheNameOnThatBill could hold you accountable, and I suspect that very few people could complete that connection.

 

Thus the trouble with the internet - TotemLake can do whatever comes to his mind without being responsible because no one knows that he's really TheNameOnThatBill.

 

How many people would post a virus or nude pics of their kid online if they had to use TheNameOnThatBill or if their screen name could easily be linked to it?

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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Well put comrade. I believe freedoms should be taken away to gratify the very few for their very selfish reasons.

Comrade? Freedom taken away? I don't know of any 'right to anonymity', but what would such a right provide? The only reason to be anonymous is to act without accountability or responsibility. Look at the mess folks have made of anonymity, first with CB Radio and now with the Internet! Unfortunately the dark creepy-crawlies of the human psyche spring to life when folks are allowed anonymity.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, there's nothing anonymous about the name on the bill I pay for my Internet access.

If you posted under the name on that bill that would be one thing, but you are known online only as TotemLake, not by the name on that bill. I seriously doubt that the folks to whom you pay that bill know that you are TotemLake, even they could not put accountability for TotemLake's actions towards TheNameOnThatBill, so to them as to us you are anonymous.

 

If you were to post something ugly only someone who knows that TotemLake = TheNameOnThatBill could hold you accountable, and I suspect that very few people could complete that connection.

 

Thus the trouble with the internet - TotemLake can do whatever comes to his mind without being responsible because no one knows that he's really TheNameOnThatBill.

 

How many people would post a virus or nude pics of their kid online if they had to use TheNameOnThatBill or if their screen name could easily be linked to it?

The only thing current laws provide in any state in this country, is you may be whomever you want to be, go where you want to go, and do what you want to do so long as you are not doing so for criminal intent.

 

To require no anonymity is being big brother and nibbles away at the freedom to be where you want to be identified as you want to be without harrassment from government or other entities as long as you are not doing so with criminal intent.

 

Some of those things you want to do away with are protected under the freedom of speech and has been decided by the Superior Court. Fortunately, you are not one of the top 9.

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The only thing current laws provide in any state in this country, is you may be whomever you want to be, go where you want to go, and do what you want to do so long as you are not doing so for criminal intent.

 

To require no anonymity is being big brother and nibbles away at the freedom to be where you want to be identified as you want to be without harrassment from government or other entities as long as you are not doing so with criminal intent.

 

Some of those things you want to do away with are protected under the freedom of speech and has been decided by the Superior Court. Fortunately, you are not one of the top 9.

I never said anything about tracking people. It is no one's business where you go or what you do, right up till you break some law.

 

Groundspeak has no reason or desire to track people, but they should be able to identify people who break the rules.

 

Actually wherever you go and whatever you do in this country is not tracked, and never will be, but wherever you are and whatever you are doing is identifiable... you are held responsible for your behavior. While no one is watching you, you are not anonymous. You may be an anonymous stranger in NYC, nobody there knows you, but if you walk down the street distributing porn you will be arrested and held accountable. Well, maybe not in NYC. :ph34r:

 

No one tracks you on the internet, but because you are truly anonymous (except for your machines, not your, IP address) you can get away with most anything. You can distribute that same porn and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

I certainly am not advocating Big Brother, but I am not advocating 'anything goes' either.

 

I am a huge believer in free speech. I joined our military and swore an oath to protect my country and her freedoms and I live by that oath still. But while you absolutely have the right to say it you do not necessarily have the right to say it anonymously.

 

I hope you can see the difference.

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So if I read the long and short of it, the few TBs that survive are attached to less desirable items? I'm going to Italy and the kids want a TB set off in Rome to see how long it takes to return to the home cache in Michigan. Other than a small metal bolt, what would stand the best chance of completing a long journey?

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Why doesn't anyone follow up when geocachers "keep" (steal, sell, add to their personal collection or whatever) travelbugs, geocoins or jeeps?

 

Each trackable owner can follow up on his own trackable. I held one too long a few months ago, and I got an email from the owner, reminding me to move it along, which I did.

 

I follow up on mine. GC.Com conveniently provides a screen just for that purpose.

 

Just looked at the ones i have out there.

 

One was last seen in 2006. It's not in the location where's it's listed.

 

One was last seen a year ago. It's now "location unknown".

 

The rest have all been moved this year, one not since February, though.

 

Does this bother me? Nope.

 

Should someone mount a search and rescue mission? Nope.

 

Would I like for them to stay in circulation? Yes.

 

Am I surprised that they are slowly disappearing? Not really.

 

Do I wish that "discovering" had never become a logging option? Yep.

 

The more I cache, the less interested I am in keeping up with tracking numbers, geocoins, "discovering" coins or TBs, etc. It's hard enough to go find 15 caches and accurately record what I found and when, much less which TBs and which coins are in which container at the end of the day.

 

At one event I attended last year, a cacher passed out a list of all the geocoins he had in his collection, with the tracking numbers and the names of the coins. There were easily over a hundred coins on the list that was passed out to all the attending cachers. All the attending cachers had to do was go home and spend a couple of hours keying in that they had "discovered" all these coins.

 

It suddenly dawned one me that the tracking numbers were pretty meaningless. Now when I look at a cacher's profile, and they've found 200 geocoins, what does that mean? Have they cached a lot, or just attended a couple of events?

 

The ability to 'discover" TBs and coins without moving them now means there's no longer any reason to pick up trackables. Just record the numbers off the items, and leave them where they are. Why bother with picking them up, recording the move, holding them, dropping them elsewhere, recording the drop, and all the time spent doing it, when you can just jot down the number and "discover" them?

 

So, trackables probably won't move like they used to.

 

I'll still move coins and TBs if they look interesting, but I find myself doing it less and less.

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I never believed in recording a TB unless I actually took it, but since then I've owned some TBs and I found I really appreciated having someone "discover" the TB because it let me, as the owner, know it was still out there traveling and not missing. So now I do "discover" TBs( especially those sitting in my caches when I do a maintenance run) to let the owner know the TB is fine (at least up to that point). Using this logic it does not make sense for me to "discover" a TB at an event in the possession of the owner. But everyone plays the game their way.

 

Why doesn't anyone follow up when geocachers "keep" (steal, sell, add to their personal collection or whatever) travelbugs, geocoins or jeeps?

 

Each trackable owner can follow up on his own trackable. I held one too long a few months ago, and I got an email from the owner, reminding me to move it along, which I did.

 

I follow up on mine. GC.Com conveniently provides a screen just for that purpose.

 

Just looked at the ones i have out there.

 

One was last seen in 2006. It's not in the location where's it's listed.

 

One was last seen a year ago. It's now "location unknown".

 

The rest have all been moved this year, one not since February, though.

 

Does this bother me? Nope.

 

Should someone mount a search and rescue mission? Nope.

 

Would I like for them to stay in circulation? Yes.

 

Am I surprised that they are slowly disappearing? Not really.

 

Do I wish that "discovering" had never become a logging option? Yep.

 

The more I cache, the less interested I am in keeping up with tracking numbers, geocoins, "discovering" coins or TBs, etc. It's hard enough to go find 15 caches and accurately record what I found and when, much less which TBs and which coins are in which container at the end of the day.

 

At one event I attended last year, a cacher passed out a list of all the geocoins he had in his collection, with the tracking numbers and the names of the coins. There were easily over a hundred coins on the list that was passed out to all the attending cachers. All the attending cachers had to do was go home and spend a couple of hours keying in that they had "discovered" all these coins.

 

It suddenly dawned one me that the tracking numbers were pretty meaningless. Now when I look at a cacher's profile, and they've found 200 geocoins, what does that mean? Have they cached a lot, or just attended a couple of events?

 

The ability to 'discover" TBs and coins without moving them now means there's no longer any reason to pick up trackables. Just record the numbers off the items, and leave them where they are. Why bother with picking them up, recording the move, holding them, dropping them elsewhere, recording the drop, and all the time spent doing it, when you can just jot down the number and "discover" them?

 

So, trackables probably won't move like they used to.

 

I'll still move coins and TBs if they look interesting, but I find myself doing it less and less.

Edited by Luckless
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Unfortunately as soon as you deploy a GC or a TB, you're basically saying goodbye to it.

Better watch what you write or some of the "not too brights" will jump all over you. :ph34r:

I wrote almost the exact same words in a similar thread and several called me a thief and supporting thieves. I never could figure out their thought process but some how in their wee minds I guess it made sense to extrapolate the statement such as yours (and mine) into "thief". Beyond me how they came to the conclusion tho. (And to think these are the same people juries are made from.) Some seemed to think that after they released a TB that they somehow maintained control over it altho they never could explain exactly what control they thought they had.

The life of a TB/coin is often short and mysterious. Sometimes they pop back into circulation many months and sometimes years after being given up for lost.

 

Yeah I know. It's just how I think. For the record, I do not or ever will condone stealing TB's or GC's!!! What's the point anyways of keeping one...what else is it good for?

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Yeah I know. It's just how I think. For the record, I do not or ever will condone stealing TB's or GC's!!! What's the point anyways of keeping one...what else is it good for?

 

I bet many times it's kids, as a lot of TB are toys or cute things and the kids just beg mommy and daddy to let them keep that cool toy and the parents don't have the heart to say no. Whenever I see a cutesy one that's gone missing, I wonder if that may be the case.

 

Otherwise, I don't understand why people keep them. When I find really awesome bugs/coins, I really want to move them on so others can enjoy them too!

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