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georeyna

Geocoin Art Design not completed

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I pretty much know what these two have gone through in the past year, and what they are going through now. I am impressed that they even have the fortitude to reply to this thread publicly.

 

All they had to say to the people they were paid to design coins for is, "Sorry, we are experiancing personal issues and will be unable to deliver the design as promised. We will refund you an amount appropriate to the amount of work unfinished as well as send you the work we have completed."

 

That right there could have saved much time and frustration for both parties; and everyone would have been fine with it and there would not be this situation.

 

maldar

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I don't know about real contracts, but an "almost finished" geocoin is likely to need to be finished by another designer - the coin design purchaser is unlikely to have the software or know how to get it mint ready. so, another coin designer will need to be hired, and will likely have a hard time modifying someone elses artwork.

 

This is probably a stretch, but what if you commissioned someone to do a painting of your child, and they got the outline done, and some colors filled in and then walked away from it.......not just anyone would have the ability to finish it - that why artists/coin designers are hired in the first place.

 

My mistake was not setting a firm finish-by date, though in my situation that may not have helped. I know now to ask a designer how long they think it will take, but do not want them to feel rushed if they need a little longer. I may be way off, but I think in general, depending on the complexity of the design a few months should be enough. And, if the designer is too busy to have it done by then, that is something to be discussed.

 

Mahalo

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I pretty much know what these two have gone through in the past year, and what they are going through now. I am impressed that they even have the fortitude to reply to this thread publicly.

 

All they had to say to the people they were paid to design coins for is, "Sorry, we are experiancing personal issues and will be unable to deliver the design as promised. We will refund you an amount appropriate to the amount of work unfinished as well as send you the work we have completed."

 

That right there could have saved much time and frustration for both parties; and everyone would have been fine with it and there would not be this situation.

 

maldar

Vision is always 20:20 in hindsight ;)

 

I reckon everyone has learned something from this.

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My main headache with personal coins is that its hard to translate someone elses ideas into something you can both be happy with... Ive learned that I dont ENJOY doing personals in most cases. I just dont get the freedom I have on my own coins and designs.

Shouldn't making your customer happy make you happy? Or does the design have to be something that you like first, and the customer is second?

 

Early on I thought many of your coins were nice looking, and some down right spectacular, so last year I contacted you about designing a coin, with the whole-hearted recommendation from Castle Man, but the conversation seemed to fade off into the realm of lost communications and the "you are almost the top of the list" emails. Thankfully no money changed hands (or it has been so long I've lost track... ;) ), so I have no vested interest in the public floggings taking place. ;)

 

Seriously, either get a new spam filter / email client, or stop using that excuse as a lame reason to not reply to emails. The same tired excuse is trotted out every few weeks it seems, it would almost seem that smoke signals are more likely to make it through!

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I don't know about real contracts, but an "almost finished" geocoin is likely to need to be finished by another designer - the coin design purchaser is unlikely to have the software or know how to get it mint ready. so, another coin designer will need to be hired, and will likely have a hard time modifying someone elses artwork.

 

Currently I'm using Adobe Photoshop. It is not that hard to crop parts of the image and create them into layers. An experianced graphic artist would be able to do that in a heartbeat. I'm not that experianced so it took me a half hour to figure it out on the design for one of my coins. If I had my Jasc PaintShop Pro from the 90's installed I could have done somethings quicker.

 

I'm not saying for the purchaser to do the work, but the first designer should be willing to pay the new designer's fees.

 

maldar

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the thing that is bothering me in all this, is the fact that paula was not telling the truth when she told people it will be just a little bit, or i sent the design, my email is messed up or all the other excuses she used.

 

to me those lies show a basic_character_flaw.

 

and in reading her posts i think the reason she has not apologized for her behaviour is she does not feel she has done anything wrong.

 

now yes, that is my opinion and yes, i have had some dealings with paula so i am not a totally uninvolved bystander.

 

no matter what life has dealt the collins, or any of us, how we honour our commitments is one of the things that defines us.

 

no matter how big or small, lies diminish the teller of falsehoods. as someone just mentioned we rely on trust in this small community.

 

and no matter the ratio of those having good experiences to those having bad, the trust has been broken.

 

it is time to move on, i guess, but only if the main person in all of this has learned anything. and that, of course, remains to be seen.

 

rsg

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Firstly..."Work that has been done..." should only need to be paid for if it is delivered. I don't care if someone has spent 1000 hours working on my design. If you deliver me NOTHING, then I should pay NOTHING.

 

I have to disagree. I'll use an off the wall example.

 

You are contracted and paid to pave 100 miles of road. Of said road you finish 99 miles, but that last mile you are frustrated and stress that you are behind schedule and leave the last mile unfinished.

 

So you are saying nothing should be paid? Like I said the example is totally different, but I think it illustrates the point. Sure there should be penalties and all that. Even pay the artist that finished the work. But if someone receives a design that is almost completed and just needs alittle tweaking here and there, I think something should still be paid. $5 is better than nothing.

 

That is my I suggest the agreement form. Something that sets a timeframe, but if timeframes are not adheard to there is a list of agreed upon penalties for each infraction. The up side could be a free coin or two as a bonus.

 

maldar

In that example (and I know you said it's not perfect) the 99 miles were delivered.

 

I'll give you another example...If I told the teacher that the dog ate my homework, so I won't give her anything to show that it was done, but I did do it, so I expect to still get a "C" on the assignment.

 

That doesn't cut is in my book.

 

Would you pay any money at all to a photographer who shot your wedding, but would not print the images, or even show you any proofs, or even allow another photographer to print from the negatives.

Edited by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

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I hope this is not OT, but I would like to know why people are saying they will not buy GeocoinDesign coins anymore?

I have said nothing of the sort. In my experience so far, there is a big difference between buying GeocoinDesign coins from their webstore, and buying a geocoin design from Paula. If my experience with the coin store deteriorates, I'll be the first to stop my purchases there.

 

Jim and Paula produce coins of an excellent quality, and package and ship immediately. Their prices aren't ludicrously high. They fix problems immediately with site stuff-ups during sales, and have gone above and beyond for quite a few people, you know who you are. Some of those people have metaphorically slapped them in the face.

I agree with most of that, but can not speak to 'above and beyond, as I have not experienced that from them.

 

I pretty much know what these two have gone through in the past year, and what they are going through now. I am impressed that they even have the fortitude to reply to this thread publicly.

Well, the rest of us have no idea as to what they've been through, but it's kind of hard for me to be sympathetic. We've all had to put up with life's trials, and without knowing otherwise, it's hard for me to assume that hers have been any worse (or better) than mine. As a design customer, Paula should have shared if there was a problem. No, if it's a private matter, she doesn't have to be specific, but since I gave money up front, and gave an initial five month deadline that she agreed with in December and again in March, the courtesy of accurate communication of some kind was due me, however brief. As far as replying to this thread publicly, it makes good business sense.

 

I am also incredibly impressed with what they HAVE accomplished this year. Yes I know I was one of the lucky ones who meshed well with Paula, and got my coin minted, but the people who have had good experiences with GeocoinDesign far outweigh the people with bad experiences.

Do keep in mind that nobody here is complaining about GeocoinDesign's sale of geocoins. It is the design services that we are taking issue with. And I know for a fact that not all who have experienced problems with the design services have posted.

 

They have had so much to put up with that many people dont know about, but they dont use that as an excuse. Paula has not apologised....but I do not think it is because she is not sorry. Please can we all give them a break now?

The whole thing is sad, but it's my belief that if Paula had done a better job of communicating, a lot of frayed tempers and bad feelings could have been prevented. I tried to be patient, citing my opinion that her "artistic temperament" was interfering as I had no other reason that I knew of. But in the end, I don't think I'm being unreasonable here. A service was paid for and not delivered by the agreed upon time. That's the bottom line. It's a shame that something like this becomes public, but when it's not an isolated instance . . . well, it's a shame that it takes this kind of pressure to get somebody to do what's right, something that should have been done ages ago for some.

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Wow! :D

This has been a very interesting read this evening.

 

Paula, let me say first and foremost that I absolutely LOVE any design that you have produced and I stand in awe of your awesome talent. (I'm not worthy!!)

I also think, in your case, you have made a wise decision to not take on any more personal coins. Working for the public is not always an easy thing to do. Knowing when it's not for you and bowing out is a really hard thing to do after you've been in that position. I know it was a hard decision to make when you love what you do so well. Please continue to bring forward your beautiful designs for us to enjoy!! I know I would definately miss your artistic talent if you were to direct it in some other direction than coins!! ;)

 

(The following is not directed "at" Paula, but at "any designer" that even considers working for the public)

edit [in retrospect - there is even some advice for myself included. Definately a few things I could work on improving there!! ;) ]

 

DESIGN INSPIRATION

(Not to be confused with "Divine Inspiration". Although that might work as well! :P )

Being a designer myself I can definately understand not being inspired to do a job because I just didn't feel inspired at the moment.

But, working for the public doesn't offer us artistic types the priviledge to wait until "our muse", as Paula calls it, decides to show itself. Sometimes we just have to force it to show it's face. I don't know about others, but I HAVE to keep inspiration producing resources around.

 

--In my filing cabinet I've got folders & folders of logos, advertisements, clipart pictures, .... that have been cut from magazines & news papers over the past 10-15 years. If you see something that catches your eye or looks really neat, clip it out and keep it. (Also, makes for some good laughs at times when you look in them and wonder to yourself - "What was I smoking when I cut that out?! :P ) But NEVER throw anything you've put in there out!! Even if you think it is junk now. There was a reason you kept it, you just may not know why at this moment. Never know when you may need some "retro" ideas for some project.

 

--Take a walk through the local grocery stores and look at the package designs. They are designed to make that product stand out amongst the many other same type product sitting right beside them. Never know when the layout on that box of cookies might give you a spark of creativity for something your working on.

 

You are sitting at one of the largest idea inspiring resources available - The Net!!

--Google Image Search to be more specific! Type in a few key words and see what has already been done by others along that same theme. Type in something obscure to your theme and get inspired by something totally different. It may just be that something that makes the idea for your theme stand out!!

 

--Trade magazines are an awesome resource for inspiration. I know there aren't that many Geocaching magazines out there (Are there any? ;) ), but any outdoors type magazine can be a good resource to get those creative juices flowing.

 

--OK, you "guys" may get some weird looks on this one... Teen Fashion Magazines!!

(Luckily I have a 16 year old daughter that brings hands full home. :P )

Next time your at the magazine rack pick one up and flip through it. The teen crowd is one of the most targeted audiences in the retail world today!! The folks that design these magazines are some of the most handsomely paid in the graphic design field. To get these jobs they have to be some of the best creative minds in their fields!!

 

"TIMELINES & DEADLINES"

If you promise something by a certain time or date, the customer needs to have what you promised by then, "if not before".

 

We adhere to this policy religiously at my day job, so I know for a fact that is a requirement to be successful when working for the public. The shop has seen a consistant 20-30 percent yearly growth in sales in the past 5 years because of it!!

 

But this is probably my Achilles Heel here at home ;)

While I try to do my coin jobs in a timely manner, sometimes it just isn't possible. Especially since my freelance design work at home is a sideline job. Sometimes I'm just to busy with "LIFE" to get to my freelance work.

 

As my "day job" I work as a graphic designer for a local sign company. We are a small 5 person, high production shop. We strive to turn around "most" jobs in one day or less. Fortunately for us, our owner has a "No Work Weekends" policy. In 3.5 years I have had to work "1" Saturday!! :D Unfortunately, that sometime means working late during the weekdays. :D Yesterday for instance, we had a large job come in for some last minute July 4th event signage & banners for the local parks & rec. dept. that had to delivered by 10:00am this morning. We left the shop last night at 11:15PM. :D But, we delivered the job this morning as promised!!

 

During the week, if nothing is going on, I "may" have 1-2 productive hours an evening to work on some designing. Being married & having a teenage daughter that is VERY active in her school's music programs (marching band, concert band, chorus) usually keep us going all school year. Going all the time getting her to all the afterschool pratices, football games, and performances cuts into available design time as well.

Now where does that leave me and my coin designs? Pushed to the side once again. :D

 

If you've got a deadline to meet to have the customer their art, then you have to be willing to lose a bit of sleep or make other sacrifices to make it happen if you want to keep them happy. I may have the "No Work Weekends" policy at my day job, but not for my freelance work. In fact, that's when I get most of my freelance design work done!!

 

COMMUNICATION

"Communication" is the key factor in staying in good graces of a customer when designs are taking longer than they should. Sure, sometimes something falls through the cracks and you have to grovel a bit to keep your customer, but you should never ignore emails or phone calls for long periods of time. It only breeds doubt and mistrust for your customer.

 

If you are unsure about what a customer wants through emails, drop them a line with your phone number or ask for their number and get on the phone and talk in person!! Sometimes you can write something in an email that makes sense to you, but to the person reading the email it may be clear as soupy mud!! Better to pay a few cents for a phone call than waste time designing something that you are not clear on.

 

DESIGNER vs CUSTOMER

One of the things that Paula states (if I've read it right) is that she didn't like what the design looked like when doing what the customer asked and didn't want to give the customer something "she" thought looked bad. (If I've read it wrong, sorry. But this advice still applies to what I'm trying to get across in my post)

 

When working for the public, sometimes, your opinion of what does and doesn't look good doesn't mean squat! ;) You are getting paid to do a design to please the customer, not yourself. What looks like Cow Hockey to you might look fabulous to them. The paying customer gets what the paying customer wants. Sometimes that means doing some work that you think is below your talent levels!! I can testify that those jobs do NOT give you much satisfaction of a job well done. But, the customer is happy and that is the main thing!!

 

Case in point... (this is exactly what I'm talking about above!!)

I once had a customer contact me and presented me with the following colored pencil sketch.

Per his instructions, he wanted me to "clean this up and make it look good".

 

CREW_SCAN-1.jpg

 

So after taking his "concept" and putting my creative spin on it I presented him with the following...

 

Crw_Cut-1.jpg

 

Nice huh? :)WRONG!! ;)

 

When I presented it to the customer he became very irate that I totally ignored his instructions and didn't do what he wanted and that I just did whatever I felt like to his "logo".

After giving him a (undeserved) apology for not doing what he wanted I went back and reworked it.

Presented him with the new design (per his original instructions) in multiple formats on a CD and collected my $125 check and everyone was happy!!

 

What did the final design look like you ask?

 

Swallow what you are drinking before scrolling down if you can't already see it!!

 

Crw_Cut2.jpg

 

You were warned!! :P

 

DEPOSITS

Deposits up front is a very debatable subject.

It basicallly boils down to "how trusting are you of your customers".

 

Most of my freelance work outside of the coin designing arena is "referals by word of mouth". I do absolutely no advertising. If someone new comes to me, it's usually through someone that has worked with me before. Either one on one or through one of my day jobs in the past. (I worked for 2 different t-shirt/sign shops prior to my current job). I "rarely" request a deposit up front to do design work. There have been a couple of ocassions where the jobs were really big and I asked for a deposit up front. Mainly it was to make sure the customer was serious about doing what they were asking me to do before putting in hours doing multiple designs for the project. One of them has returned to me twice since the first job and after knowing that he follows through with what he is asking me to do, I didn't ask for deposits after the first job.

 

But on the other hand, at my job at the sign shop, if a "new" customer comes in wanting to see multiple sign layouts for one job or needing a sign that requires logo reproduction or some other type of art touch up, we do not even create a work order until they hand over a $50-$100 deposit. It boils down to a time factor there. Being a high production shop we just don't have time to waste doing designs for someone that isn't serious about doing the job.

You would be amazed at the folks that just come in off the street wanting us to draw something up, just so they could see what it'll look like. Then, if they like what we designed, they would order a sign. By getting a deposit, we are at least getting paid for our time wasted on them if they never follow through with an order.

 

Fortunately, I don't feel the need to get a deposit up front for any of my coin designs. (If I have before, I just don't remember doing it B) ) I can understand why someone would want a deposit, but i just don't feel the need to. It's all a personable decision by the designer as to whether they what to take the gamble on trusting their customers or not.

 

Hopefully someone will get some use out of my advice and it's not just been a bunch of hot air. :D

 

As a graphic designer, working for the public is NOT easy sometimes, but for the most part it is very rewarding. To be able to bring a thought into a tangible product and know that you put your mark in this world is a truly amazing thing. ;)

 

Have a great day!!

 

D-man B)

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As a graphic designer, working for the public is NOT easy sometimes, but for the most part it is very rewarding. To be able to bring a thought into a tangible product and know that you put your mark in this world is a truly amazing thing. ;)

 

Very well said, Griddy. Echoes my mindset exactly.

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Whoa - that customer logo is u g l y !!!!

 

Now yours on the other hand Gridlox....that's what I call a professional design.

 

/me walks off shaking head.....

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I hope this is not OT, but I would like to know why people are saying they will not buy GeocoinDesign coins anymore?

When a company leaves a bad taste in your mouth, do you continue to buy from them?

 

Jim and Paula produce coins of an excellent quality, and package and ship immediately. Their prices aren't ludicrously high. They fix problems immediately with site stuff-ups during sales, and have gone above and beyond for quite a few people, you know who you are. Some of those people have metaphorically slapped them in the face.

Noone is challenging the quality of coins, obviously since most people use the same mint. the problem is people have been paying for something and not even getting the art. This has nothing to do with their shipping or anything else you posted above.

 

I pretty much know what these two have gone through in the past year, and what they are going through now. I am impressed that they even have the fortitude to reply to this thread publicly.

What they have gone through? How about what they have put people through? You seem to read their posts much differently than most of the people here have. I, along with most, have seen no remorse or appolgy. I have seen Paula come in and pat herself on her back for the way she designs, the creativity of her art, the wonderful coins she delivers, etc etc etc. Not once have I seen her step up to the plate and appoligize for taking people's money and not delivering and not even communicating with these people.

 

I am also incredibly impressed with what they HAVE accomplished this year. Yes I know I was one of the lucky ones who meshed well with Paula, and got my coin minted, but the people who have had good experiences with GeocoinDesign far outweigh the people with bad experiences.

You had a good experience. Congrats on that. But as you can clearly see, there is a whole other side to the coin that you probably weren't aware of. Your good experience doesn't make it any easier for these people to swallow what they have gone through and surely doesn't take make it better for them. I don't think you can state anything about far outweighing the number of bad experiences. Until 3 days ago you would have thought there was not one single story like we have seen, so that is a very unfounded statement to make. I personally know of several others who just are too timid, or whatever the case may be, to come out in the public about it.

 

They have had so much to put up with that many people dont know about, but they dont use that as an excuse. Paula has not apologised....but I do not think it is because she is not sorry. Please can we all give them a break now?

And they shouldn't use that as an excuse anymore than you should try to give them one. We all have things to go through in life. The difference is, they are a buisness that is taking people's money and not delivering. While it is nice of you to try to defend a friend, it is completely out of place. The facts are what they are, and sugar coating it and making weak excuses doesn't help. The one thing that stands out to me is the lack of character. When you screw up, you admit it. You try to make it right to the best of your abilities, but the first thing you do is say you are sorry. I haven't seen anything of the sorts. I have seen arrogance above and beyond what I would expect in a situation like this. I have seen someone standing up claiming to be a great designer and boasting about their buisness. These aren't the actions of someone who is sorry about what they did. These are the actions of someone who doesn't care and just wants to move on to the next design. I'm sorry but your post is way off as to what the reality is going here.

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While I was going through this problem with Paula, I did contact another designer and asked him if he could work on the design for me. He was upfront with me and told me straight out, I have a very busy personal life at the moment, so I can not take any designs, but if you can not work things out with Paula, I will be more than happy to recommend another designer. Now that was honesty.

 

It is not hard to do, it is not hard to say, it is being real.

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I hope this is not OT, but I would like to know why people are saying they will not buy GeocoinDesign coins anymore?

 

I am one of those that won't buy geocoindesign coins nor will I look for trades for those coins. The reason? It is because I feel that would be directly supporting them and the way they do business. I can not with a good conscious buy from them when I know how they have taken people's money and run. Their business ethics are horrible. Excuse after excuse after excuse without an apology. My decision has nothing to do with shipping and packaging and quality of the coins.

 

I agree with what pghlooking has said about the rest of your post......

 

When working for the public, sometimes, your opinion of what does and doesn't look good doesn't mean squat! ;) You are getting paid to do a design to please the customer, not yourself. What looks like Cow Hockey to you might look fabulous to them. The paying customer gets what the paying customer wants. Sometimes that means doing some work that you think is below your talent levels!! I can testify that those jobs do NOT give you much satisfaction of a job well done. But, the customer is happy and that is the main thing!!

 

D-man B)

 

So - if I can be allowed to get back to making people happy through my work, and make sure everyone is taken care of, and pleased - I'd appreciate that.

 

~P

 

It seems to me that you have never understood the point that d-man has said here and has been said before. In a business the customer is the one that NEEDS to be happy. Now the general geocoin audience is finding out about the many people that you haven't made happy. The ones who have posted are only the tip of the iceberg.......

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DESIGN INSPIRATION

(Not to be confused with "Divine Inspiration". Although that might work as well! :P )

Being a designer myself I can definately understand not being inspired to do a job because I just didn't feel inspired at the moment.

But, working for the public doesn't offer us artistic types the priviledge to wait until "our muse", as Paula calls it, decides to show itself. Sometimes we just have to force it to show it's face. I don't know about others, but I HAVE to keep inspiration producing resources around.

 

--In my filing cabinet I've got folders & folders of logos, advertisements, clipart pictures, .... that have been cut from magazines & news papers over the past 10-15 years. If you see something that catches your eye or looks really neat, clip it out and keep it. (Also, makes for some good laughs at times when you look in them and wonder to yourself - "What was I smoking when I cut that out?! :P ) But NEVER throw anything you've put in there out!! Even if you think it is junk now. There was a reason you kept it, you just may not know why at this moment. Never know when you may need some "retro" ideas for some project.

 

--Take a walk through the local grocery stores and look at the package designs. They are designed to make that product stand out amongst the many other same type product sitting right beside them. Never know when the layout on that box of cookies might give you a spark of creativity for something your working on.

 

You are sitting at one of the largest idea inspiring resources available - The Net!!

--Google Image Search to be more specific! Type in a few key words and see what has already been done by others along that same theme. Type in something obscure to your theme and get inspired by something totally different. It may just be that something that makes the idea for your theme stand out!!

 

--Trade magazines are an awesome resource for inspiration. I know there aren't that many Geocaching magazines out there (Are there any? B) ), but any outdoors type magazine can be a good resource to get those creative juices flowing.

 

--OK, you "guys" may get some weird looks on this one... Teen Fashion Magazines!!

(Luckily I have a 16 year old daughter that brings hands full home. :P )

Next time your at the magazine rack pick one up and flip through it. The teen crowd is one of the most targeted audiences in the retail world today!! The folks that design these magazines are some of the most handsomely paid in the graphic design field. To get these jobs they have to be some of the best creative minds in their fields!!

 

"TIMELINES & DEADLINES"

If you promise something by a certain time or date, the customer needs to have what you promised by then, "if not before".

 

We adhere to this policy religiously at my day job, so I know for a fact that is a requirement to be successful when working for the public. The shop has seen a consistant 20-30 percent yearly growth in sales in the past 5 years because of it!!

 

But this is probably my Achilles Heel here at home :)

While I try to do my coin jobs in a timely manner, sometimes it just isn't possible. Especially since my freelance design work at home is a sideline job. Sometimes I'm just to busy with "LIFE" to get to my freelance work.

 

As my "day job" I work as a graphic designer for a local sign company. We are a small 5 person, high production shop. We strive to turn around "most" jobs in one day or less. Fortunately for us, our owner has a "No Work Weekends" policy. In 3.5 years I have had to work "1" Saturday!! :D Unfortunately, that sometime means working late during the weekdays. :) Yesterday for instance, we had a large job come in for some last minute July 4th event signage & banners for the local parks & rec. dept. that had to delivered by 10:00am this morning. We left the shop last night at 11:15PM. :D But, we delivered the job this morning as promised!!

 

During the week, if nothing is going on, I "may" have 1-2 productive hours an evening to work on some designing. Being married & having a teenage daughter that is VERY active in her school's music programs (marching band, concert band, chorus) usually keep us going all school year. Going all the time getting her to all the afterschool pratices, football games, and performances cuts into available design time as well.

Now where does that leave me and my coin designs? Pushed to the side once again. B)

 

If you've got a deadline to meet to have the customer their art, then you have to be willing to lose a bit of sleep or make other sacrifices to make it happen if you want to keep them happy. I may have the "No Work Weekends" policy at my day job, but not for my freelance work. In fact, that's when I get most of my freelance design work done!!

 

COMMUNICATION

"Communication" is the key factor in staying in good graces of a customer when designs are taking longer than they should. Sure, sometimes something falls through the cracks and you have to grovel a bit to keep your customer, but you should never ignore emails or phone calls for long periods of time. It only breeds doubt and mistrust for your customer.

 

If you are unsure about what a customer wants through emails, drop them a line with your phone number or ask for their number and get on the phone and talk in person!! Sometimes you can write something in an email that makes sense to you, but to the person reading the email it may be clear as soupy mud!! Better to pay a few cents for a phone call than waste time designing something that you are not clear on.

 

DESIGNER vs CUSTOMER

One of the things that Paula states (if I've read it right) is that she didn't like what the design looked like when doing what the customer asked and didn't want to give the customer something "she" thought looked bad. (If I've read it wrong, sorry. But this advice still applies to what I'm trying to get across in my post)

 

When working for the public, sometimes, your opinion of what does and doesn't look good doesn't mean squat! :) You are getting paid to do a design to please the customer, not yourself. What looks like Cow Hockey to you might look fabulous to them. The paying customer gets what the paying customer wants. Sometimes that means doing some work that you think is below your talent levels!! I can testify that those jobs do NOT give you much satisfaction of a job well done. But, the customer is happy and that is the main thing!!

 

Case in point... (this is exactly what I'm talking about above!!)

I once had a customer contact me and presented me with the following colored pencil sketch.

Per his instructions, he wanted me to "clean this up and make it look good".

 

CREW_SCAN-1.jpg

 

So after taking his "concept" and putting my creative spin on it I presented him with the following...

 

Crw_Cut-1.jpg

 

Nice huh? :)WRONG!! B)

 

When I presented it to the customer he became very irate that I totally ignored his instructions and didn't do what he wanted and that I just did whatever I felt like to his "logo".

After giving him a (undeserved) apology for not doing what he wanted I went back and reworked it.

Presented him with the new design (per his original instructions) in multiple formats on a CD and collected my $125 check and everyone was happy!!

 

What did the final design look like you ask?

 

Swallow what you are drinking before scrolling down if you can't already see it!!

 

Crw_Cut2.jpg

 

You were warned!! :P

 

DEPOSITS

Deposits up front is a very debatable subject.

It basicallly boils down to "how trusting are you of your customers".

 

Most of my freelance work outside of the coin designing arena is "referals by word of mouth". I do absolutely no advertising. If someone new comes to me, it's usually through someone that has worked with me before. Either one on one or through one of my day jobs in the past. (I worked for 2 different t-shirt/sign shops prior to my current job). I "rarely" request a deposit up front to do design work. There have been a couple of ocassions where the jobs were really big and I asked for a deposit up front. Mainly it was to make sure the customer was serious about doing what they were asking me to do before putting in hours doing multiple designs for the project. One of them has returned to me twice since the first job and after knowing that he follows through with what he is asking me to do, I didn't ask for deposits after the first job.

 

But on the other hand, at my job at the sign shop, if a "new" customer comes in wanting to see multiple sign layouts for one job or needing a sign that requires logo reproduction or some other type of art touch up, we do not even create a work order until they hand over a $50-$100 deposit. It boils down to a time factor there. Being a high production shop we just don't have time to waste doing designs for someone that isn't serious about doing the job.

You would be amazed at the folks that just come in off the street wanting us to draw something up, just so they could see what it'll look like. Then, if they like what we designed, they would order a sign. By getting a deposit, we are at least getting paid for our time wasted on them if they never follow through with an order.

 

Fortunately, I don't feel the need to get a deposit up front for any of my coin designs. (If I have before, I just don't remember doing it :D ) I can understand why someone would want a deposit, but i just don't feel the need to. It's all a personable decision by the designer as to whether they what to take the gamble on trusting their customers or not.

 

Hopefully someone will get some use out of my advice and it's not just been a bunch of hot air. ;)

 

As a graphic designer, working for the public is NOT easy sometimes, but for the most part it is very rewarding. To be able to bring a thought into a tangible product and know that you put your mark in this world is a truly amazing thing. ;)

 

Have a great day!!

 

D-man B)

 

Wow, my eyes are watering! ;):P

 

Two things of note really stick out to me from this example. Point 1) Communication is key. Communication is where it all went wrong apparently and that seems to be the issue in most problems. Your customer obviously didn't want your design or any design. What he wanted was his sketch to be cleaned up with leads to my second point. The breakdown in what he wanted and what you initially gave him shows it clearly. Obviously your work was better design, but who knows what his motivation was? Maybe he promised his little kid to put the child's sketch on his van, biz card, etc.? Point 2) The customer is not always right. Holy lizards, I said it out loud!!! Customers must always be pleased with the end result, but the reason they go to a professional in the first place is their inability to do it right. This leads back to good communication. As artists, we're the tools to their creativity. We're creating for them and putting the best parts of their ideas into a finished product that both the customer and artist should hopefully feel proud of.

 

Everyone's priorities are different. At the office, I sometimes have to do work that makes me cringe. I certainly don't consider that MY art though. If I did it my way though, my client might be unhappy. That won't pay the bills. In most freelance (done on my personal time), I'm quite happy to walk from a job completely rather than let it be wrecked at the whims of a non-professional. It's a personal decision that people in any profession might have to make. It may cost me a little in the short run, but I consider it an investment in my reputation for quality over the long haul. A builder might use substandard materials to put a house together because the client wants to save money, but when it falls apart later the builder is going to be the bad guy.

 

That's a small advantage in freelance though to be able to pick and choose your projects. I'd rather do work to the best of my ability regardless of the cost. This seems to be a divisive line though. Artists need to be able to divide what is our personal work and what is our professional work. I do my work my way, I do my clients work with my skill, but I do it their way. I may try to steer them clear of major faux pas or suggest better resolutions, but in the end if you want to get paid, the customer needs to be happy. :)

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In that example (and I know you said it's not perfect) the 99 miles were delivered.

 

I'll give you another example...If I told the teacher that the dog ate my homework, so I won't give her anything to show that it was done, but I did do it, so I expect to still get a "C" on the assignment.

 

That doesn't cut is in my book.

 

Would you pay any money at all to a photographer who shot your wedding, but would not print the images, or even show you any proofs, or even allow another photographer to print from the negatives.

 

I was of the understanding that some part of the artwork was delivered. Know in the case you state I would have to agree that there is nothing to show for it so nothing should be expected in return.

 

So to clear things up, in the example I gave I think they should get something. While with the example you gave I think they should get nothing.

 

maldar

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Well, here's my 2 cents.. I have had countless dealings with Cinemaboxers in the past, and have never had problems. Jim and Paula have both been very honest with me, and I consider them friends. I have done numerous trades with them, and am using Paula as the designer for my next personal coin.(already started) Simply because I know she will put out a spectacular design.

And ya know.. if it takes time to get it where it needs to be design wise.. So be it.. I won't settle for 2nd rate work and that's not what Cinemaboxers is all about. Their designs speak for themselves and if it's not up to snuff, it won't be produced. Communication seems to be the key to most of the issues with design. If you lack the communication skills necessary, find someone to translate, until everyone is on the same page.

 

I DON'T know exacty what transpired with CB and any of their customers, other than what has been posted on these forums, and THAT is just one side of the coin... JUST because they aren't addressing every single issue on here, doesn't mean they're guilty of anything. Only the customer and them know exactly what was said if the truth be told. If all the FACTS you know, have been gleaned from the forums, I can pretty much promise you, you're not getting the whole story.

If I believed everything I read in these forums I'd probably be in a padded room somewhere.

 

I will say that I know of a few geocoin designers that have had issues in the past, and it was dealt with when it happened. I refuse to name names, it's petty and uncalled for. This is not a new issue, and most likely there will be problems in the future because of the human element involved, no matter who you deal with.

 

I would hate to see ANYONE stifled in their creative endeavors because of someone elses personal vendetta, because it's not that they won... it's that the other people that appreciate the design loses.

 

I know I personally will keep collecting CB designs as long as they keep putting them out. I am constantly in awe of their work.

 

Thanks to both of them for raising the bar.

~57

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In that example (and I know you said it's not perfect) the 99 miles were delivered.

 

I'll give you another example...If I told the teacher that the dog ate my homework, so I won't give her anything to show that it was done, but I did do it, so I expect to still get a "C" on the assignment.

 

That doesn't cut is in my book.

 

Would you pay any money at all to a photographer who shot your wedding, but would not print the images, or even show you any proofs, or even allow another photographer to print from the negatives.

 

I was of the understanding that some part of the artwork was delivered. Know in the case you state I would have to agree that there is nothing to show for it so nothing should be expected in return.

 

So to clear things up, in the example I gave I think they should get something. While with the example you gave I think they should get nothing.

 

maldar

I'll have to read it again to be sure. I agree that if a half finished product was delivered, and only needed adjustments or finishing touches, then a partial fee should be paid.

 

For example if the design only needed cleaned up, if to be made mint ready.

 

That would be like giving the teacher all my notes to show that I had done the work, but the paper with the final answers was the only thing missing, then maybe I could hope for better than an "F", or if the photographer shot the wedding, but his lab burned down, and he had to let someone else make the prints.

 

Edit to add...

I've read back and see that the OP said "Rough Drafts" were delivered, so I guess the amount of payment due would depend on how "Rough" those drafts are. I'm not going to speculate on the amount of work or payment in any particular case, but the things I've said are meant to express my opinion of this kind of situation IN GENERAL.

Edited by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

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I would hate to see ANYONE stifled in their creative endeavors because of someone elses personal vendetta, because it's not that they won... it's that the other people that appreciate the design loses.

 

Breaking out the "personal vendetta" spin doesn't fly when it's been proven to have happened to quite a few people. This appears to go well beyond personal to the level of multiple parties "losing" something much more tangible than a design option. People lost money here, and it took this information coming forward to get something done about it.

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Well, here's my 2 cents.. I have had countless dealings with Cinemaboxers in the past, and have never had problems. Jim and Paula have both been very honest with me, and I consider them friends. I have done numerous trades with them, and am using Paula as the designer for my next personal coin.(already started) Simply because I know she will put out a spectacular design.

And ya know.. if it takes time to get it where it needs to be design wise.. So be it.. I won't settle for 2nd rate work and that's not what Cinemaboxers is all about. Their designs speak for themselves and if it's not up to snuff, it won't be produced. Communication seems to be the key to most of the issues with design. If you lack the communication skills necessary, find someone to translate, until everyone is on the same page.

 

I DON'T know exacty what transpired with CB and any of their customers, other than what has been posted on these forums, and THAT is just one side of the coin... JUST because they aren't addressing every single issue on here, doesn't mean they're guilty of anything. Only the customer and them know exactly what was said if the truth be told. If all the FACTS you know, have been gleaned from the forums, I can pretty much promise you, you're not getting the whole story.

If I believed everything I read in these forums I'd probably be in a padded room somewhere.

 

I will say that I know of a few geocoin designers that have had issues in the past, and it was dealt with when it happened. I refuse to name names, it's petty and uncalled for. This is not a new issue, and most likely there will be problems in the future because of the human element involved, no matter who you deal with.

 

I would hate to see ANYONE stifled in their creative endeavors because of someone elses personal vendetta, because it's not that they won... it's that the other people that appreciate the design loses.

 

I know I personally will keep collecting CB designs as long as they keep putting them out. I am constantly in awe of their work.

 

Thanks to both of them for raising the bar.

~57

 

Well you are one of the lucky ones who did not get entangled in shady dealings with the team. You are correct, there are two sides to the story, but again, it is my side and Paula's and dozens of other peoples side and Paula's.

 

I promise you, this was my last option. My very last option to bring this to the boards. I sent her letters, requests, offered for her to give up the job, just refund me part of the money. I did not want to burden her with my job if she was unable to complete it. SHE insisted on continuing the work for me. SHE INSISTED that she could do the job. This was a month ago. I gave her the option to opt out, she did not. She told me a month ago that she would have my work to me within a week. I waited, checked my spam, checked over my email in detail and I did not receive nothing. MY VERY LAST OPTION was the boards.

 

You are very lucky and congrats to you. I am sure after this occurred, you wil receive the benefits of the results of the thread. It is nice to know you will wait a year, however long it takes her, to get the best. Because she will make you wait a year to get your final artwork, that is because she is the best and has raised the bar above all others in your opinion! I am sure if she was working for a popular ad or design agency, they would sit back a year and wait for the best!

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It sounds like a case of taking on more than you could properly handle and not infoming the effected parties. Also a lack of communication on your part to satisfy the clients.

 

I have done lots of comissioned work and always ensure I have time to work on it before accepting the job. I prefer to work for myself as well as I make the decisions. But if thats strictly the case why venture into the design business to begin with.

 

Very seldom do I take money or payment upfront. I feel if I do not finish it to meet mine and the clients approval then that is a risk I take.

 

If the client decides to make major changes after draft work has been done, then an agreed price for previous work is set before major changes occur and work continues.

 

Comissioned artists also need to remember that email communication gives out only a fraction of communication information that would otherwise be achieved by face to face communication. So via email we cannot pick up on the smaller signals. The artist as to ensure that the customer is getting enough information. I think if all these dealings face to face alot of these problems would have been quickly eliminated.

Edited by lordzogat

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I know I personally will keep collecting CB designs as long as they keep putting them out. I am constantly in awe of their work.

While I praise your friendship and undying loyalty to them, both are commendable from a friends perspective, sometimes people need to take a step back and look at the whole picture. There is a ton of smoke coming from a whole mess of fires. Paula's design records of late looks more like a map of the California wildfires than anything I have seen here before. I know you will defend them to then end, but the facts are the facts and they speak volumes more than a your personal friend account of how you have been treated and how you feel towards them. I honestly don't think theres much they could do wrong that would persuade you into not supporting them. Not a dis at you, but just an honest view from the other side.

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Here is my story:

 

I spoke with Paula several times while designing my Crystal Ball coin. We discussed placing a beautiful girl on one side and creating a "mystical items" theme to it. We discussed the slogan for the coin sale and everything. Let me tell you the amount of shock I had when I find out she beat me to the mint with a very similar coin, replace crystal ball with Ouija board, and even went as far as to use my sales slogan on the her actual coin. Now this is more than just a coincidence. Is it ethical for an artist to take ideas from a commissioned piece of work, and use it for their own projects? Sure she says she had designed this prior to our discussions, but wouldn't that have come up at some point during out lengthy talks about my very, very similar design?

 

The worst part was how I was treated. As we have all seen, Paula is never wrong. She did offer to re-do the other side, but at that point I just couldn't afford to give her anymore ideas for her coins on my dime.

 

When one person complains, it is sour grapes. When a couple people complain, its a group vendetta. So exactly what do we call it when people who have no other connection other than the artist, all have the same issues? I don't think it takes much investigating to come to the conclusion that the company might be the problem in all this.

 

At some point we as a community need to stop looking for excuses and start looking for ways to correct the situation. This thread is a very good start at correction. The word is getting out as to how companies treat their clients, as it should be out there. I just hope it isn't too little information too late for some people.

 

It always amazes me when people claim to not like drama, yet seem to create it endlessly. How can you expect the end result not to be drama? You take money and fail to produce artwork, meet deadlines, respond to emails, yet still take on more work and collect more money from new clients. Your sole excuses were over demanding clients, spam filters, your lack of interest in doing personals, etc. Sounds like you should have finished what you started before taking more people's money.

 

A long time ago I was going to post my story. I was afraid it would be considered a personal attack since at the time I thought my story was the only one out there. I didn't want to sound like sour grapes. Now that we clearly see this has been an ongoing practice and not just an isolated incident or two, I am saddened that I didn't post my story then. If I had I might have raised the awareness for some, such as Georeynozos, 007, bluemotmot, fluteface and others who haven’t posted. They, possibly, wouldn’t have had to go through the same things as myself or lost their money. Hopefully I am not too late to help make someone else aware of the problems out there.

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It sounds like a case of taking on more than you could properly handle and not infoming the effected parties. Also a lack of communication on your part to satisfy the clients.

 

I have done lots of comissioned work and always ensure I have time to work on it before accepting the job. I prefer to work for myself as well as I make the decisions. But if thats strictly the case why venture into the design business to begin with.

 

Very seldom do I take money or payment upfront. I feel if I do not finish it to meet mine and the clients approval then that is a risk I take.

 

If the client decides to make major changes after draft work has been done, then an agreed price for previous work is set before major changes occur and work continues.

 

Comissioned artists also need to remember that email communication gives out only a fraction of communication information that would otherwise be achieved by face to face communication. So via email we cannot pick up on the smaller signals. The artist as to ensure that the customer is getting enough information. I think if all these dealings face to face alot of these problems would have been quickly eliminated.

 

Face-to-face, in a case like this, also includes telephone conversations where the subtle signals can still be read.

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Here is my story:

 

I spoke with Paula several times while designing my Crystal Ball coin. We discussed placing a beautiful girl on one side and creating a "mystical items" theme to it. We discussed the slogan for the coin sale and everything. Let me tell you the amount of shock I had when I find out she beat me to the mint with a very similar coin, replace crystal ball with Ouija board, and even went as far as to use my sales slogan on the her actual coin. Now this is more than just a coincidence. Is it ethical for an artist to take ideas from a commissioned piece of work, and use it for their own projects? Sure she says she had designed this prior to our discussions, but wouldn't that have come up at some point during out lengthy talks about my very, very similar design?

 

The worst part was how I was treated. As we have all seen, Paula is never wrong. She did offer to re-do the other side, but at that point I just couldn't afford to give her anymore ideas for her coins on my dime.

 

When one person complains, it is sour grapes. When a couple people complain, its a group vendetta. So exactly what do we call it when people who have no other connection other than the artist, all have the same issues? I don't think it takes much investigating to come to the conclusion that the company might be the problem in all this.

 

At some point we as a community need to stop looking for excuses and start looking for ways to correct the situation. This thread is a very good start at correction. The word is getting out as to how companies treat their clients, as it should be out there. I just hope it isn't too little information too late for some people.

 

It always amazes me when people claim to not like drama, yet seem to create it endlessly. How can you expect the end result not to be drama? You take money and fail to produce artwork, meet deadlines, respond to emails, yet still take on more work and collect more money from new clients. Your sole excuses were over demanding clients, spam filters, your lack of interest in doing personals, etc. Sounds like you should have finished what you started before taking more people's money.

 

A long time ago I was going to post my story. I was afraid it would be considered a personal attack since at the time I thought my story was the only one out there. I didn't want to sound like sour grapes. Now that we clearly see this has been an ongoing practice and not just an isolated incident or two, I am saddened that I didn't post my story then. If I had I might have raised the awareness for some, such as Georeynozos, 007, bluemotmot, fluteface and others who haven’t posted. They, possibly, wouldn’t have had to go through the same things as myself or lost their money. Hopefully I am not too late to help make someone else aware of the problems out there.

 

As a person who has not yet designed my first coin, I am glad to be getting feedback on what pitfalls to look out for. This kind of information will be helpful when I need to choose a designer/minter.

 

Edit to add...

You're story brings to light one of the concerns I have already had. What is to stop someone from taking an idea I conceive and run to make their own coin? I've had a great idea for a GV VII coin, but am hesitant to start sharing it with coin makers, for fear that the coin will be made, and I will not get credit.

Edited by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

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Edit to add...

You're story brings to light one of the concerns I have already had. What is to stop someone from taking an idea I conceive and run to make their own coin? I've had a great idea for a GV VII coin, but am hesitant to start sharing it with coin makers, for fear that the coin will be made, and I will not get credit.

 

That is a legitimate concern. Overall I think the majority of artists and coin vendors are trustworthy enough not to do this. It is a leap of faith but the best thing to do is talk to others who have made coins....maybe you already have some personal coins in your collection you really like. Contact the owner and ask where they got it done, how the experience was. A true professional will not steal your idea. :)

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Face-to-face, in a case like this, also includes telephone conversations where the subtle signals can still be read.

 

That certainly helps too.

 

 

 

As a person who has not yet designed my first coin, I am glad to be getting feedback on what pitfalls to look out for. This kind of information will be helpful when I need to choose a designer/minter.

 

Edit to add...

You're story brings to light one of the concerns I have already had. What is to stop someone from taking an idea I conceive and run to make their own coin? I've had a great idea for a GV VII coin, but am hesitant to start sharing it with coin makers, for fear that the coin will be made, and I will not get credit.

 

 

Stick with someone local who you can come to trust or at least find em to bust down their door. LOL jk

Edited by lordzogat

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It sounds like a case of taking on more than you could properly handle and not infoming the effected parties. Also a lack of communication on your part to satisfy the clients.

 

I have done lots of comissioned work and always ensure I have time to work on it before accepting the job. I prefer to work for myself as well as I make the decisions. But if thats strictly the case why venture into the design business to begin with.

 

Very seldom do I take money or payment upfront. I feel if I do not finish it to meet mine and the clients approval then that is a risk I take.

 

If the client decides to make major changes after draft work has been done, then an agreed price for previous work is set before major changes occur and work continues.

 

Comissioned artists also need to remember that email communication gives out only a fraction of communication information that would otherwise be achieved by face to face communication. So via email we cannot pick up on the smaller signals. The artist as to ensure that the customer is getting enough information. I think if all these dealings face to face alot of these problems would have been quickly eliminated.

 

Face-to-face, in a case like this, also includes telephone conversations where the subtle signals can still be read.

 

Actually, I would suggest the opposite. If you have a phone conversation or a face to face conversation, you have no back up on what you said or what they said. My new policy after this experience is that all conversations must be emails or IM (I keep chat logs). That way you can always look back on the conversation to see what you said. It never turns into "He said, she said" and if it does, you can always back up your position.

Edited by MustangJoni

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It sounds like a case of taking on more than you could properly handle and not infoming the effected parties. Also a lack of communication on your part to satisfy the clients.

 

I have done lots of comissioned work and always ensure I have time to work on it before accepting the job. I prefer to work for myself as well as I make the decisions. But if thats strictly the case why venture into the design business to begin with.

 

Very seldom do I take money or payment upfront. I feel if I do not finish it to meet mine and the clients approval then that is a risk I take.

 

If the client decides to make major changes after draft work has been done, then an agreed price for previous work is set before major changes occur and work continues.

 

Comissioned artists also need to remember that email communication gives out only a fraction of communication information that would otherwise be achieved by face to face communication. So via email we cannot pick up on the smaller signals. The artist as to ensure that the customer is getting enough information. I think if all these dealings face to face alot of these problems would have been quickly eliminated.

 

Face-to-face, in a case like this, also includes telephone conversations where the subtle signals can still be read.

 

Actually, I would suggest the opposite. If you have a phone conversation or a face to face conversation, you have no back up on what you said or what they said. My new policy after this experience is that all conversations must be emails or IM (I keep chat logs). That way you can always look back on the conversation to see what you said. It never turns into "He said, she said" and if it does, you can always back up your position.

That's true...To get the true feelings shared between two parties, you'll gave to actually TALK to them, but after the conversation, the same things can be sent in an email.

 

In my job, there are a lot of things instructed/promised over the phone, but the 'Qualcom' is the bible that makes everything ligitimate. When someone makes a promise, or gives an instruction that I question, I always reply with "Send that to me in the Qualcom" If they do not, then it is not official.

 

So anyway, a chat on the phone or face to face can get the information exchanged, then a follow up email can make it official.

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Here is my story:

 

snipped ...

 

A long time ago I was going to post my story. I was afraid it would be considered a personal attack since at the time I thought my story was the only one out there. I didn't want to sound like sour grapes. Now that we clearly see this has been an ongoing practice and not just an isolated incident or two, I am saddened that I didn't post my story then. If I had I might have raised the awareness for some, such as Georeynozos, 007, bluemotmot, fluteface and others who haven’t posted. They, possibly, wouldn’t have had to go through the same things as myself or lost their money. Hopefully I am not too late to help make someone else aware of the problems out there.

 

i am so glad you and the others came forward. i am appalled by this latest turn of events.

 

but you have to admit, paula is very good at adapting others' art into geocoin. the Scarab Pectoral, from the Tomb of Tutankhamun is now the geocaching bug and a piece of the sistine chapel is "geocoin collecting." i am sure michaelangelo is honoured.

 

The-Creation-of-Adam-Detail-of-Gods-and-Adams-Hands-from-the-Sistine-Ceiling-Giclee-Print-C12973858.jpeg

 

rsg

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Here is my story:

 

I spoke with Paula several times while designing my Crystal Ball coin. We discussed placing a beautiful girl on one side and creating a "mystical items" theme to it. We discussed the slogan for the coin sale and everything. Let me tell you the amount of shock I had when I find out she beat me to the mint with a very similar coin, replace crystal ball with Ouija board, and even went as far as to use my sales slogan on the her actual coin. Now this is more than just a coincidence. Is it ethical for an artist to take ideas from a commissioned piece of work, and use it for their own projects? Sure she says she had designed this prior to our discussions, but wouldn't that have come up at some point during out lengthy talks about my very, very similar design?

 

The worst part was how I was treated. As we have all seen, Paula is never wrong. She did offer to re-do the other side, but at that point I just couldn't afford to give her anymore ideas for her coins on my dime.

 

When one person complains, it is sour grapes. When a couple people complain, its a group vendetta. So exactly what do we call it when people who have no other connection other than the artist, all have the same issues? I don't think it takes much investigating to come to the conclusion that the company might be the problem in all this.

 

At some point we as a community need to stop looking for excuses and start looking for ways to correct the situation. This thread is a very good start at correction. The word is getting out as to how companies treat their clients, as it should be out there. I just hope it isn't too little information too late for some people.

 

It always amazes me when people claim to not like drama, yet seem to create it endlessly. How can you expect the end result not to be drama? You take money and fail to produce artwork, meet deadlines, respond to emails, yet still take on more work and collect more money from new clients. Your sole excuses were over demanding clients, spam filters, your lack of interest in doing personals, etc. Sounds like you should have finished what you started before taking more people's money.

 

A long time ago I was going to post my story. I was afraid it would be considered a personal attack since at the time I thought my story was the only one out there. I didn't want to sound like sour grapes. Now that we clearly see this has been an ongoing practice and not just an isolated incident or two, I am saddened that I didn't post my story then. If I had I might have raised the awareness for some, such as Georeynozos, 007, bluemotmot, fluteface and others who haven’t posted. They, possibly, wouldn’t have had to go through the same things as myself or lost their money. Hopefully I am not too late to help make someone else aware of the problems out there.

This is a blatant lie. I'm Paulas mother and it was I who came up with the idea for the Quija coin, well before I ever heard of you or your crystal ball coin. (I'm sure Castleman could confirm that.)This came up as an idea for a personal coin for me at the same time that Paula was working on her first personal coin.Besides, how is a Quija coin anything close to a crystal ball? The coin that Paula designed for you sold quite well, didn't it? How ungrateful can you be! I talked with you quite awhile ago on Geocoins.net and you told me how happy you were with the coin. You certainly didn't mention any of this to me.

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Here is my story:

 

snipped ...

 

A long time ago I was going to post my story. I was afraid it would be considered a personal attack since at the time I thought my story was the only one out there. I didn't want to sound like sour grapes. Now that we clearly see this has been an ongoing practice and not just an isolated incident or two, I am saddened that I didn't post my story then. If I had I might have raised the awareness for some, such as Georeynozos, 007, bluemotmot, fluteface and others who haven’t posted. They, possibly, wouldn’t have had to go through the same things as myself or lost their money. Hopefully I am not too late to help make someone else aware of the problems out there.

 

i am so glad you and the others came forward. i am appalled by this latest turn of events.

 

but you have to admit, paula is very good at adapting others' art into geocoin. the Scarab Pectoral, from the Tomb of Tutankhamun is now the geocaching bug and a piece of the sistine chapel is "geocoin collecting." i am sure michaelangelo is honoured.

 

The-Creation-of-Adam-Detail-of-Gods-and-Adams-Hands-from-the-Sistine-Ceiling-Giclee-Print-C12973858.jpeg

 

rsg

Yes..Paula is good at adapting art, as are many of the coin designers. I can think of quite a few. I hate to break it to you, but not all of the work used on coins is original art. It's ADAPTED for the geocoin. I think you'd better head over to the Mickey diver coin thread and share the fact that you're appalled at adapted art. That's not original either. Then over to the Thors Hammer thread...then to that cute mermaid coin...and so on...

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Here is my story:

 

snipped ...

 

A long time ago I was going to post my story. I was afraid it would be considered a personal attack since at the time I thought my story was the only one out there. I didn't want to sound like sour grapes. Now that we clearly see this has been an ongoing practice and not just an isolated incident or two, I am saddened that I didn't post my story then. If I had I might have raised the awareness for some, such as Georeynozos, 007, bluemotmot, fluteface and others who haven’t posted. They, possibly, wouldn’t have had to go through the same things as myself or lost their money. Hopefully I am not too late to help make someone else aware of the problems out there.

 

i am so glad you and the others came forward. i am appalled by this latest turn of events.

 

but you have to admit, paula is very good at adapting others' art into geocoin. the Scarab Pectoral, from the Tomb of Tutankhamun is now the geocaching bug and a piece of the sistine chapel is "geocoin collecting." i am sure michaelangelo is honoured.

 

The-Creation-of-Adam-Detail-of-Gods-and-Adams-Hands-from-the-Sistine-Ceiling-Giclee-Print-C12973858.jpeg

 

rsg

Yes..Paula is good at adapting art, as are many of the coin designers. I can think of quite a few. I hate to break it to you, but not all of the work used on coins is original art. It's ADAPTED for the geocoin. I think you'd better head over to the Mickey diver coin thread and share the fact that you're appalled at adapted art. That's not original either. Then over to the Thors Hammer thread...then to that cute mermaid coin...and so on...

 

oh, i am not appalled at the adaptations, i said i was appalled at the latest turn of events as told by MustangJoni.

 

please read the thread carefully before you jump in.

 

rsg

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This discussion is getting out of hand. If 'Geocoin Art Design not completed' in general would be discussed, there was no problem, even when it started by the example of the conflict: mixed expectations, lack of trust and a lot of miscummunication and misunderstanding between georeynozos and Paula of Cinemaboxers.

 

Although there are quite a few posts the do really justice to the discussion of 'Geocoin Art Design not completed', this topic is getting much to personal. Reading post 71 it believe it was never the intention to start a real discussion about this the topic, rather then start a 'warn the geocaching world' topic where the starting point is: 'never ever trust Cinemaboxers'. A discussion about a conflict is not a discussion but just a line up of opinions about a designer. A one on one personal/bussiness conflict between constumer and artist/shop should never be fought out in a forum.

 

My suggestion: change the topics name in 'Good and bad experiences with coindesigners' or - and that would be my favourite: close this topic...

Edited by Team Van Stoffelen

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Here is my story:

 

I spoke with Paula several times while designing my Crystal Ball coin. We discussed placing a beautiful girl on one side and creating a "mystical items" theme to it. We discussed the slogan for the coin sale and everything. Let me tell you the amount of shock I had when I find out she beat me to the mint with a very similar coin, replace crystal ball with Ouija board, and even went as far as to use my sales slogan on the her actual coin. Now this is more than just a coincidence. Is it ethical for an artist to take ideas from a commissioned piece of work, and use it for their own projects? Sure she says she had designed this prior to our discussions, but wouldn't that have come up at some point during out lengthy talks about my very, very similar design?

 

The worst part was how I was treated. As we have all seen, Paula is never wrong. She did offer to re-do the other side, but at that point I just couldn't afford to give her anymore ideas for her coins on my dime.

 

When one person complains, it is sour grapes. When a couple people complain, its a group vendetta. So exactly what do we call it when people who have no other connection other than the artist, all have the same issues? I don't think it takes much investigating to come to the conclusion that the company might be the problem in all this.

 

At some point we as a community need to stop looking for excuses and start looking for ways to correct the situation. This thread is a very good start at correction. The word is getting out as to how companies treat their clients, as it should be out there. I just hope it isn't too little information too late for some people.

 

It always amazes me when people claim to not like drama, yet seem to create it endlessly. How can you expect the end result not to be drama? You take money and fail to produce artwork, meet deadlines, respond to emails, yet still take on more work and collect more money from new clients. Your sole excuses were over demanding clients, spam filters, your lack of interest in doing personals, etc. Sounds like you should have finished what you started before taking more people's money.

 

A long time ago I was going to post my story. I was afraid it would be considered a personal attack since at the time I thought my story was the only one out there. I didn't want to sound like sour grapes. Now that we clearly see this has been an ongoing practice and not just an isolated incident or two, I am saddened that I didn't post my story then. If I had I might have raised the awareness for some, such as Georeynozos, 007, bluemotmot, fluteface and others who haven’t posted. They, possibly, wouldn’t have had to go through the same things as myself or lost their money. Hopefully I am not too late to help make someone else aware of the problems out there.

This is a blatant lie. I'm Paulas mother and it was I who came up with the idea for the Quija coin, well before I ever heard of you or your crystal ball coin. (I'm sure Castleman could confirm that.)This came up as an idea for a personal coin for me at the same time that Paula was working on her first personal coin.Besides, how is a Quija coin anything close to a crystal ball? The coin that Paula designed for you sold quite well, didn't it? How ungrateful can you be! I talked with you quite awhile ago on Geocoins.net and you told me how happy you were with the coin. You certainly didn't mention any of this to me.

If I have to explain to you that a Crystal Ball and a Ouija Board are similar types of “mystical devices”, then that is rather sad.

 

If what you say is true, then all the time Paula and I are discussing the concepts of my coin, she knew all along she had another coin with similar concepts. When I told her my sales slogan was “What’s in Your Future?” She knew that it was emblazoned across the top of another coin she was producing. I could have very easily gone in a different direction at that point. But to me, it sounded like the Ouija coin was something she thought of as we were talking.

 

Ungrateful? Well, guess what? Paula was hired to do a job. Paula got paid to do that job. Why do I need to be grateful? I have yet to get any emails from my boss thanking me gratefully for going to work. I guess the thanks is my paycheck I get every two weeks. I am amazed that a company would think that a customer would need to be grateful to that company for providing a service? I think a company should be grateful that a customer hired them.

 

As for our conversation on Geocoin.net, that was only the first time you attacked me in a public forum, and without full comprehending what I was saying.

 

And Team VS, while I have the utmost respect for your opinion regarding closing this thread, the continued turning a blind eye to these types of situations only allows them to continue! It may be ugly, but it isn't isolated.

Edited by MustangJoni

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This discussion is getting out of hand. If 'Geocoin Art Design not completed' in general would be discussed, there was no problem, even when it started by the example of the conflict: mixed expectations, lack of trust and a lot of miscummunication and misunderstanding between georeynozos and Paula of Cinemaboxers.

 

Although there are quite a few posts the do really justice to the discussion of 'Geocoin Art Design not completed', this topic is getting much to personal. Reading post 71 it believe it was never the intention to start a real discussion about this the topic, rather then start a 'warn the geocaching world' topic where the starting point is: 'never ever trust Cinemaboxers'. A discussion about a conflict is not a discussion but just a line up of opinions about a designer. A one on one personal/bussiness conflict between constumer and artist/shop should never be fought out in a forum.

 

My suggestion: change the topics name in 'Good and bad experiences with coindesigners' or - and that would be my favourite: close this topic...

It's not personal - it's business, and important that such issues are brought to the attention of this community. I get the feeling that perhaps you did not spend the time to read the entire thread. Hiding our dirty laundry achieves nothing.

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This is a blatant lie. I'm Paulas mother and it was I who came up with the idea for the Quija coin, well before I ever heard of you or your crystal ball coin. (I'm sure Castleman could confirm that.)This came up as an idea for a personal coin for me at the same time that Paula was working on her first personal coin.Besides, how is a Quija coin anything close to a crystal ball? The coin that Paula designed for you sold quite well, didn't it? How ungrateful can you be!

Seeing that you only got one side of the story, that of which is a close family member, I seriously doubt you could even try to be objective in this situation. I mean the only time any of us have ever seen you in here, you are either defending Paula, praising Paula, or bumping her sales threads. It's almost like you are her alter ego rather than mother, and honestly most wonder which is true.

 

The two coins are very similar and if one was being worked on for a year prior to the commissioned artwork, then yes the designer should have said something and not allowed a client to blindly create a coin that may or may not sell based on that. The fact that it sold well does not change it. Had the coin not sold, would your story be any different?

 

People that have been treated poorly by any company are not going to be grateful. Not sure why you are missing this. This thread is full of alot of people who are ungrateful as you call it, but each has a similar experience and rightfully is upset.

I talked with you quite awhile ago on Geocoins.net and you told me how happy you were with the coin. You certainly didn't mention any of this to me.

This should go to show the level of character Joni has shown throughout this ordeal. Even though she has been wronged like so many by your daughter, she still kept her head high and took the high road. She easily could have started a "whisper campaign" or bad mouthed Paula at ever turn, but she didn't. She took it like an adult and carried on. Had so many other not had come forward with very similar situations, I doubt any of us would have known what happened on this coin. I for one don't know how she continued to show such self control in a situation where she was shown no respect and was completed taken advantage of.

 

Maybe it is time for Mom to sit daughter down and see what's really going on. I know if my kids were doing this kid of stuff, and I was an involved parent, I would try to get them back on the road to respecting others and being a legit buisness without all the shady dealings. Maybe she will listen to your motherly words, because she doesn't seem to be hearing what the community is saying. I know it's a little too late for some, and way too late for others, but do you realie she hasn't even taken the first baby step to appoligize to any of these people for her actions? She has just asked to be left alone to continue doing what she wants to do, which is more coins! She just isn't getting it Mom, but maybe you can help her see some light. Good luck.

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This is a blatant lie. I'm Paulas mother and it was I who came up with the idea for the Quija coin, well before I ever heard of you or your crystal ball coin. (I'm sure Castleman could confirm that.)This came up as an idea for a personal coin for me at the same time that Paula was working on her first personal coin.Besides, how is a Quija coin anything close to a crystal ball? The coin that Paula designed for you sold quite well, didn't it? How ungrateful can you be!

Seeing that you only got one side of the story, that of which is a close family member, I seriously doubt you could even try to be objective in this situation. I mean the only time any of us have ever seen you in here, you are either defending Paula, praising Paula, or bumping her sales threads. It's almost like you are her alter ego rather than mother, and honestly most wonder which is true.

 

The two coins are very similar and if one was being worked on for a year prior to the commissioned artwork, then yes the designer should have said something and not allowed a client to blindly create a coin that may or may not sell based on that. The fact that it sold well does not change it. Had the coin not sold, would your story be any different?

 

People that have been treated poorly by any company are not going to be grateful. Not sure why you are missing this. This thread is full of alot of people who are ungrateful as you call it, but each has a similar experience and rightfully is upset.

I talked with you quite awhile ago on Geocoins.net and you told me how happy you were with the coin. You certainly didn't mention any of this to me.

This should go to show the level of character Joni has shown throughout this ordeal. Even though she has been wronged like so many by your daughter, she still kept her head high and took the high road. She easily could have started a "whisper campaign" or bad mouthed Paula at ever turn, but she didn't. She took it like an adult and carried on. Had so many other not had come forward with very similar situations, I doubt any of us would have known what happened on this coin. I for one don't know how she continued to show such self control in a situation where she was shown no respect and was completed taken advantage of.

 

Maybe it is time for Mom to sit daughter down and see what's really going on. I know if my kids were doing this kid of stuff, and I was an involved parent, I would try to get them back on the road to respecting others and being a legit buisness without all the shady dealings. Maybe she will listen to your motherly words, because she doesn't seem to be hearing what the community is saying. I know it's a little too late for some, and way too late for others, but do you realie she hasn't even taken the first baby step to appoligize to any of these people for her actions? She has just asked to be left alone to continue doing what she wants to do, which is more coins! She just isn't getting it Mom, but maybe you can help her see some light. Good luck.

Excuse me...you weren't a party to the conversation we had on the geocoin forum so you really have no basis to reply regarding it. The character of Joni and her "band" there was to tell me if I wouldn't give them my personal information, they weren't going to listen to anything I had to say. And her ordeal??? She got a coin design that sold out, poor thing. You need to realize that there are two sides to these issues. Paula's not in here detailing the problems she had with some of these clients and their demands..but they exist. One of the coins discussed had to be scrapped after completion when another similar coin came out. Then the client got angry when another design couldn't be designed, minted and ready to go in a month for an event. So maybe you should withhold your comments until you know the whole story. As for my identity..you can believe I'm Paulas mother or not. Anyone should be free to comment here without being accused of being a sock puppet.

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Here is my story:

 

I spoke with Paula several times while designing my Crystal Ball coin. We discussed placing a beautiful girl on one side and creating a "mystical items" theme to it. We discussed the slogan for the coin sale and everything. Let me tell you the amount of shock I had when I find out she beat me to the mint with a very similar coin, replace crystal ball with Ouija board, and even went as far as to use my sales slogan on the her actual coin. Now this is more than just a coincidence. Is it ethical for an artist to take ideas from a commissioned piece of work, and use it for their own projects? Sure she says she had designed this prior to our discussions, but wouldn't that have come up at some point during out lengthy talks about my very, very similar design?

 

The worst part was how I was treated. As we have all seen, Paula is never wrong. She did offer to re-do the other side, but at that point I just couldn't afford to give her anymore ideas for her coins on my dime.

 

When one person complains, it is sour grapes. When a couple people complain, its a group vendetta. So exactly what do we call it when people who have no other connection other than the artist, all have the same issues? I don't think it takes much investigating to come to the conclusion that the company might be the problem in all this.

 

At some point we as a community need to stop looking for excuses and start looking for ways to correct the situation. This thread is a very good start at correction. The word is getting out as to how companies treat their clients, as it should be out there. I just hope it isn't too little information too late for some people.

 

It always amazes me when people claim to not like drama, yet seem to create it endlessly. How can you expect the end result not to be drama? You take money and fail to produce artwork, meet deadlines, respond to emails, yet still take on more work and collect more money from new clients. Your sole excuses were over demanding clients, spam filters, your lack of interest in doing personals, etc. Sounds like you should have finished what you started before taking more people's money.

 

A long time ago I was going to post my story. I was afraid it would be considered a personal attack since at the time I thought my story was the only one out there. I didn't want to sound like sour grapes. Now that we clearly see this has been an ongoing practice and not just an isolated incident or two, I am saddened that I didn't post my story then. If I had I might have raised the awareness for some, such as Georeynozos, 007, bluemotmot, fluteface and others who haven’t posted. They, possibly, wouldn’t have had to go through the same things as myself or lost their money. Hopefully I am not too late to help make someone else aware of the problems out there.

This is a blatant lie. I'm Paulas mother and it was I who came up with the idea for the Quija coin, well before I ever heard of you or your crystal ball coin. (I'm sure Castleman could confirm that.)This came up as an idea for a personal coin for me at the same time that Paula was working on her first personal coin.Besides, how is a Quija coin anything close to a crystal ball? The coin that Paula designed for you sold quite well, didn't it? How ungrateful can you be! I talked with you quite awhile ago on Geocoins.net and you told me how happy you were with the coin. You certainly didn't mention any of this to me.

If I have to explain to you that a Crystal Ball and a Ouija Board are similar types of “mystical devices”, then that is rather sad.

 

If what you say is true, then all the time Paula and I are discussing the concepts of my coin, she knew all along she had another coin with similar concepts. When I told her my sales slogan was “What’s in Your Future?” She knew that it was emblazoned across the top of another coin she was producing. I could have very easily gone in a different direction at that point. But to me, it sounded like the Ouija coin was something she thought of as we were talking.

 

Ungrateful? Well, guess what? Paula was hired to do a job. Paula got paid to do that job. Why do I need to be grateful? I have yet to get any emails from my boss thanking me gratefully for going to work. I guess the thanks is my paycheck I get every two weeks. I am amazed that a company would think that a customer would need to be grateful to that company for providing a service? I think a company should be grateful that a customer hired them.

 

As for our conversation on Geocoin.net, that was only the first time you attacked me in a public forum, and without full comprehending what I was saying.

 

And Team VS, while I have the utmost respect for your opinion regarding closing this thread, the continued turning a blind eye to these types of situations only allows them to continue! It may be ugly, but it isn't isolated.

No..I had the concept. And the "What's in your future" is one of the slogans for the Illinois lottery, where I live. That's where it came from. I had never even heard of you. And she apparently did tell you if, by your own words, she offered to redo one side of your coin. As for our discussion on Geocoin.net forum, you already know what went on there. Who was attacking who?

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Here is my story:

 

I spoke with Paula several times while designing my Crystal Ball coin. We discussed placing a beautiful girl on one side and creating a "mystical items" theme to it. We discussed the slogan for the coin sale and everything. Let me tell you the amount of shock I had when I find out she beat me to the mint with a very similar coin, replace crystal ball with Ouija board, and even went as far as to use my sales slogan on the her actual coin. Now this is more than just a coincidence. Is it ethical for an artist to take ideas from a commissioned piece of work, and use it for their own projects? Sure she says she had designed this prior to our discussions, but wouldn't that have come up at some point during out lengthy talks about my very, very similar design?

 

The worst part was how I was treated. As we have all seen, Paula is never wrong. She did offer to re-do the other side, but at that point I just couldn't afford to give her anymore ideas for her coins on my dime.

 

When one person complains, it is sour grapes. When a couple people complain, its a group vendetta. So exactly what do we call it when people who have no other connection other than the artist, all have the same issues? I don't think it takes much investigating to come to the conclusion that the company might be the problem in all this.

 

At some point we as a community need to stop looking for excuses and start looking for ways to correct the situation. This thread is a very good start at correction. The word is getting out as to how companies treat their clients, as it should be out there. I just hope it isn't too little information too late for some people.

 

It always amazes me when people claim to not like drama, yet seem to create it endlessly. How can you expect the end result not to be drama? You take money and fail to produce artwork, meet deadlines, respond to emails, yet still take on more work and collect more money from new clients. Your sole excuses were over demanding clients, spam filters, your lack of interest in doing personals, etc. Sounds like you should have finished what you started before taking more people's money.

 

A long time ago I was going to post my story. I was afraid it would be considered a personal attack since at the time I thought my story was the only one out there. I didn't want to sound like sour grapes. Now that we clearly see this has been an ongoing practice and not just an isolated incident or two, I am saddened that I didn't post my story then. If I had I might have raised the awareness for some, such as Georeynozos, 007, bluemotmot, fluteface and others who haven’t posted. They, possibly, wouldn’t have had to go through the same things as myself or lost their money. Hopefully I am not too late to help make someone else aware of the problems out there.

This is a blatant lie. I'm Paulas mother and it was I who came up with the idea for the Quija coin, well before I ever heard of you or your crystal ball coin. (I'm sure Castleman could confirm that.)This came up as an idea for a personal coin for me at the same time that Paula was working on her first personal coin.Besides, how is a Quija coin anything close to a crystal ball? The coin that Paula designed for you sold quite well, didn't it? How ungrateful can you be! I talked with you quite awhile ago on Geocoins.net and you told me how happy you were with the coin. You certainly didn't mention any of this to me.

If I have to explain to you that a Crystal Ball and a Ouija Board are similar types of “mystical devices”, then that is rather sad.

 

If what you say is true, then all the time Paula and I are discussing the concepts of my coin, she knew all along she had another coin with similar concepts. When I told her my sales slogan was “What’s in Your Future?” She knew that it was emblazoned across the top of another coin she was producing. I could have very easily gone in a different direction at that point. But to me, it sounded like the Ouija coin was something she thought of as we were talking.

 

Ungrateful? Well, guess what? Paula was hired to do a job. Paula got paid to do that job. Why do I need to be grateful? I have yet to get any emails from my boss thanking me gratefully for going to work. I guess the thanks is my paycheck I get every two weeks. I am amazed that a company would think that a customer would need to be grateful to that company for providing a service? I think a company should be grateful that a customer hired them.

 

As for our conversation on Geocoin.net, that was only the first time you attacked me in a public forum, and without full comprehending what I was saying.

 

And Team VS, while I have the utmost respect for your opinion regarding closing this thread, the continued turning a blind eye to these types of situations only allows them to continue! It may be ugly, but it isn't isolated.

No..I had the concept. And the "What's in your future" is one of the slogans for the Illinois lottery, where I live. That's where it came from. I had never even heard of you. And she apparently did tell you if, by your own words, she offered to redo one side of your coin. As for our discussion on Geocoin.net forum, you already know what went on there. Who was attacking who?

 

I am completely unbiased here and have an open mind...one thing that really bothers me about your whole "I was doing this concept before you" explanation is simple...and has been brought up by the person who this affected: IF you had this concept long before MJ, why didn't Paula mention this and even make suggestions that there might be a concept in the works BY HER that is VERY similar even having the exact same slogan?? Paula obviously knew of this as she WAS working on both...right?? It just seems so "coincidental" that two coins with that similar of a concept and the EXACT same slogan would be worked on almost at the same time and by the very same designer...and not one word would be mentioned about it?? If this were the ONLY report of such a problem, I might just dismiss it, hearing of more makes me wonder....

 

If it were me doing the designs, I'd have made it known right from the start so there wouldn't be this problem now.

 

I'm not here to sling mud or make accusations, I want to understand this as much as anyone else so I'm informed IF I ever go into making another coin or am considering buying a coin. This IS a community and as such, we should all be watching out for one another, knowing there could be problems up front goes a LONG way. Communication also would be very helpful in avoiding these kinds of problems! Having a designer who is very upfront and involved in a project makes a project move along smoothly, communication would (IMHO) go a long ways to keeping problems to a minimum while keeping a bond between the designer and the client!

 

I can understand your wanting to defend your daughter, I would more like to hear her side of this story so we can truly get the whole ordeal in the open. This she said/she said thing is only hurting all parties in question...and leaves room for inuendos and misunderstandings!

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I don't have a personal experience with CB needing her services for a coin design. I agree that she does a nice job with photoshopping and putting designs together as evidenced by the ones that have been completed.

 

However on that note, I would like to make a few comments without having this sound like a personal attack because this isn't what it is meant to be.

 

I've been on the receiving end of the " I didn't get your email or I didn't see your pm," back when we used to be friends. Judging by what I have seen posted here and what I have experienced many months ago, it may be time to consider a new email if there really are that many issues. I check my spam folder every other day and I even switched my email provider because of the issues I used to have. That's just an option.

 

Running a small business successfully hinges on making your customers happy on all fronts. You mentioned not being inspired to do some of the designs and anyone who designs coins can understand that completely. We all have our ideas and thoughts of how designs should look. Much like what Griddy posted. The minute you tke a customers money with the notion to complete a design for them, then you need to ensure they are given their designs in a timely manner. It doesn't matter if you think they are too demanding or want the impossible, it's your job (as it would be any of ours who designed for others) to tell people you don't have the time, you can't do it, you're not inspired, or whatever..... just let them know. Making someone wait for more than 3 months or stringing them along is unacceptable.

 

I see a couple of your friends are standing up for you and that is admirable, I would do the same thing for my buddies. Yet I think the bigger issue here has not been properly addressed but has been touched on.

 

There have been way to many incidents some posted here and some people still sitting on the sidelines to be just an isolated incident. No one here is claiming to be perfect and I know I am not. I can easily tell you what people are looking for here, it's an apology. no one even said you had to do it in a public forum. The fact is you screwed up with some very wonderful folks, most of whom I've had the pleasure of meeting. I've watched you shift the blame around and not take responsibility for your actions.

 

In my exeprience: I've been late on emailing (and lord knows I get alot of emails), I've accidentally forgot to ship a package, missed an email along the way, screwed up an order or trade, etc. the list goes on but in the end, I took responsibility for my screw up no matter how unintentional it was and just said "I'm sorry." Most people are very forgiving.

 

You can privately think I'm full of crap and that's fine, I know some of my friends think it :D A simple genuine apology for handling things in other than the best manner is all that is called for here. (Well at least in my opinion and if it were me, it would be hard to swallow my pride but knowing I hurt some folks wouldn't sit right with me and I'd do it anyway).

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Well... this post will be about as on topic as most of the ones on this thread...

 

Accuse me of alot of things... but the one thing I take the most offense to... Im not an artist. :D

 

This will get deleted, which is a shame, as IMO the mods have let this turn into an unfactual bash fest.

If I had responded to every 'claim' made here, I would have wasted my July 4th Holiday - which frankly, Im surprised so many people had time to bother on such a lovely day.

 

The Ouija coin idea was indeed NOT stolen, and she DID start a whisper campaign - I received several emails and calls about Mustang Joni trying to get my designs 'blackballed' when she dedided she was offended. Read her blog - shes got issues with more people than just me, and rants about them all there.

 

If she was so upset, why did I get an email when the Crystal Ball coin came out telling me she was happy with it, loved it, and that she would be doing a future series, and I might be asked for input? (Yeah, Im sure I have this email somewhere...)

 

And no - I dont have a sock puppet. I would welcome ANY moderator to compare IPs just to clear that issue up. Its my mother, and the Ouija was indeed her idea long before I EVER designed ANY coin that was sold to the public. (Its timeline was back there around the Unnecessary Bushwhacking, etc)

 

I might have dropped the ball on timelines, but my ethics on designs, being trustworthy in keeping them under wraps and general secrecy are ROCK SOLID. As are clients designs ALWAYS safe with me.

I've known about projects months and even years in advance from designers such as UOtrackers, Chris Mackey, and more - even concepts coin companies were talking about minting. I have enough of my own ideas, I don't need to 'steal' others.

 

So, to anyone who questioned my artistic ability, please review the following. If you don't trust me, you are mislead, and easily misguided which is unfortunate - Ive done nothing but right by the people who have trusted me. My friends, some of which have posted here, know me MUCH better than any of the people who have said a single negative word.

 

And TSun - lets get to why we didnt work on anything together. I caught you coming in my chatroom under false names starting trouble - I matched your IP and spoke to you about it WAY back then. Off topic, but since we're going there - I felt you were the one who could not be trusted.

 

So, to those who are enjoying this thread - go ahead... I stand by my work, and my ethics and conscience are absolutely true and clear.

 

PencilDeer.jpg

 

deerhead.jpg

 

And yes.. my ink version of a Frank Frazetta painting: (As to not be accused of stealing it.. )

deathdealer.jpg

 

marilyn.jpg

SB-1.jpg

Run for the Roses was done from this Acrylic on Canvas I painted.

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This forum has proven to be a community of people who like to trust each other, and this thread is a legitimate discussion about the potential problems that can occur when a forum member who represents themselves as a designer/minter/broker fails to uphold their end of a money-based business transaction.

 

It's come to light through multiple testimonials here that one such business, who also represents themselves as a friendly co-collector, has repeatedly taken money from clients and failed to deliver work to a very disturbing degree.

 

Considering the growing number of complaints, the counter-attacks and defensiveness displayed, and the seemingly arrogant lack of remorse...I think perhaps this community has had the chance to see who they are really dealing with.

 

This can't help but cast a shadow on the trust that this forum gives so freely, and frankly... the "bad press" appears to be well-deserved.

 

The criticism being dished out here is nowhere near as hurtful as how these clients appear to have been treated. And given how this community works...it won't soon be forgotten.

 

Take responsibility.

 

Stop making excuses.

 

Stop allowing friends and relatives to defend your actions, or lack thereof.

 

Start doing legitimate business...or don't do business here at all.

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snipped...

....

...I stand by my work, and my ethics and conscience are absolutely true and clear.

 

...

 

marilyn.jpg

SB-1.jpg

Run for the Roses was done from this Acrylic on Canvas I painted.

 

must be one of the inspirational photos behind the painting.

eightbelles.jpg

 

and another inspiration?

6189_Marilyn_Monroe_Hollywood_Legends_Jigsaw_Puzzles_lg.jpg

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Very wrong Redshoesgirl! That painting was of Spectacular Bid winning the 1980 Washington Handicap at Arlington International Racetrack (edited to credit proper race won). And, does that make them not art? :D

 

Sigh... Im guessing that the ABILITY to do paintings if you are inspired by something makes you no longer an artist. You have to do something completely unrecognizable and abstract to be a true 'artist' - nothing at all recognizable or 'inspired by'. Hmm and to think I have a hard time viewing most abstract work as 'art'.

 

I guess its time for all artists to hang it up - its all been done folks. Throw in the towel.... we're all copying something apparently, or its just not art. (!??!?)

 

Regardless of what Im painting, or drawing, my point is, I have the ability to do it, and don't need photoshop, or others art. My next design I have planned is something pretty incredible. And, those who collect my coins should be very happy. (And those are the folks I design for.)

Edited by CinemaBoxers

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Very wrong Redshoesgirl! That painting was of Spectacular Bid winning the Arlington Million. And, does that make them not art? :D

 

sorry, got the wrong photo. and no, when you paint from a photo it is not art, it is plagerism and copyright infringement which protects the copyright holder against derivative works.

 

Sigh... Im guessing that the ABILITY to do paintings if you are inspired by something makes you no longer an artist. You have to do something completely unrecognizable and abstract to be a true 'artist' - nothing at all recognizable or 'inspired by'. Hmm and to think I have a hard time viewing most abstract work as 'art'.

 

inspired is not copying. nope, not everyone has the ability to be a copier.

 

creating from a scene in front of you, or in your mind is not abstract art. creating a portrait of someone in front of you is not abstract work either. the key word here is creating.

 

you have taken others art and copied it and put your name on it.

 

so the coin was not from your painting per se, but from a photo of a spectacular bid win.

 

I guess its time for all artists to hang it up - its all been done folks. Throw in the towel.... we're all copying something apparently, or its just not art. (!??!?)

 

did i say anywhere that it has all been done before? you want to be an artist, create your own unique works.

 

Regardless of what Im painting, or drawing, my point is, I have the ability to do it, and don't need photoshop, or others art. My next design I have planned is something pretty incredible. And, those who collect my coins should be very happy. (And those are the folks I design for.)

 

if you say so.

 

regardless of your talent, or lack there of, you lied to people and took their money without producing the product. just the fact of the lies shows me a lack of ethics and character. you obviously do not see this at all which is really too bad. this is more than "dropped the ball on timelines."

 

that should get us back on topic.

 

rsg

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Excuse me...you weren't a party to the conversation we had on the geocoin forum so you really have no basis to reply regarding it.

You are absolutely right. I wasn't there and didn't hear a word said any more than you were on the phone during any of these design discussion by any of these people. The difference is, I am making my comments based on what you said trasnpired, not on hear say.

And her ordeal??? She got a coin design that sold out, poor thing.

So anything goes as long as the coin sells well? I don't really think that's what we should be teaching our kids now is it? I know if my kids behaved in this manner, it would be more than a stern talking from me they would get. I surely wouldn't be in here trying to defend their actions like they were some kind of saint that is just misunderstood.

You need to realize that there are two sides to these issues. Paula's not in here detailing the problems she had with some of these clients and their demands..but they exist. One of the coins discussed had to be scrapped after completion when another similar coin came out. Then the client got angry when another design couldn't be designed, minted and ready to go in a month for an event. So maybe you should withhold your comments until you know the whole story.

I agree there are two sides to a story. Sometimes even three. But you really should heed your own medicine here before trying to dose it out. You only know one side of the story, unless of course you were eaves dropping on the phone for each and every one of these conversations.

 

We all know there are bad apples out there. No one wants to think their kid is the bad apple though, but guess what. They have moms too. And I am sure they were probably the last ones to realize their kid was the bad apple. Nothing against you. I feel sorry you have to see this kind of stuff, but when it comes to a buisness doing bad practice with people, it needs addressed.

As for my identity..you can believe I'm Paulas mother or not. Anyone should be free to comment here without being accused of being a sock puppet.

I don't remember bringing that up, but since you want to open that door, yeah quite a few people think you are nothing more than a sock of Paula's. I have given you the benefit of the doubt by playing along with you and treating you like a seperate person who is in fact her mother. Say what you will, but when the sock fits...

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I'm sorry I missed the part the part where I spoke about your chat room in my post? If you really want to go there, yeah, coming in under the name NUST (tsun spelled backwards), Cowboy and Montana must have really been confusing huh? Seems everyone knew who I was because those are all names associated with me. I can think of a very good buddy of yours who came in under other people's caching names and you allowed him too continue to do it while a number of us told him to knock it off yet you don't trust me, that's laughable. Good try on trying to make me look bad. I come into the new chat under 'nutella', I know, that's so deceitful :D

 

I asked you for help with how to choose translucent colors way back before I got started on my own. You would never answer my question and when I finally sent it in a pm, you said your hubby read it and didn't tell you about it. I USED to be a customer of yours and now for a number of reasons I am not and have not been for a long time.

 

I see this as another attempt at deflecting and refusing to apologize to the others which would have been so easy. It's obviously never going to happen.

 

Don't make this a pissing match. I've held my tongue for a long, long time about alot of things.

 

I don't like you and I freely admit it and I know the feeling is mutual but I've never bashed your abilities as a designer and I tried to be neutral here and used myself as an example so you wouldn't feel threatened. Yet you felt the need to take it a step further, I don't get that.

 

Good luck to you....

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