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georeyna

Geocoin Art Design not completed

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I hate to bring this to the boards but I feel that this is the only way I am going to get my design completed and sent to me. I arranged for Paula Collins of CinemaBoxxers to design a coin for me a year ago and have yet to receive a final design. Has anyone encountered this problem as well?

 

I am in awe of Paula's work and that is why I selected her to do my geocoin design but I have yet to get the final design in hand. Is anyone else having the same problem or am I the only one? I have written to her, and she has yet to finalize a design for me. I have received "rough drafts" of what I requested, but nothing final. I made payment via paypal June 7th, 07 and have nothing in return.

 

I know that the boards are no place to resolve conflict but with many email attempts and false promises and money spent, I feel that this is the place of last resort. How long should I wait for a design. I know Paula is in high demand because I see her art work all over the place and it is beautiful, but I have paid for services which have not been completed.

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Duplicate - and... taken care of by the way. :D

 

I've decided to make one reply - but only one.

 

When I'm working on a design, it sometimes takes me a short time if I have the concept figured out, and other times, I have a hard time conceptualizing an idea - and in those cases - I just can NOT get a final design figured out and finished until I have it finalized in my head.

 

I don't believe in sending a customer a medicore, half-baked concept. I like to have a polished final idea before I send something to a customer, and if I'm not happy with art, Im very negative about it. Several of the coins I've worked, or have been working on have been ones that I just have not been at all pleased with the concept, or the drafts I began. (One in particular was 99% finished when a VERY similar concept came out, and made me scrap the idea for the customers coin, and entirely rethink it - which set me back quite a bit.)

 

I would NEVER intentionally, EVER mislead, or not provide something that someone paid for - its a matter of the creative process taking longer than I would like it to. This is why I stopped taking personal coin design jobs over 6 months ago, as I really was finding it hard to work and conceptualize someone elses concept.

 

My own ideas usually come to me easily - but when someone says "Do this, I want this, like this" I have a VERY hard time being as creative when given strict directions to follow. The burden of trying to come up with ideas that fit within a guideline, yet satisfied my own sense of 'I love this design' was getting to be a LOT to deal with. I find myself unhappy with much of my work where Im given too many guidelines, and no freedom.

(And often Im not provided with any Guidance at all - which makes it hard in some cases!)

 

Now, I've worked and completed many designs - and people have been very happy with the job Ive done. I think I do lovely work, but when Im in a timeframe I indeed have a tough time completing a design, and being happy with it. And I think I have a VERY hard time providing a design I am unhappy with.

 

I would hope all of you who know me know that I would NEVER take advantage of ANYONE. I'm not comfortable with being talked badly about when most issues are coming from misunderstandings. We are always prompt with shipping out coins we sell - we want people to be happy. Sometimes, life gets in the way and I run out of time. :D However - we have enough friends who know that we are NOT dishonest people, nor would I ever take advantage of a friend, or anyone for that matter.

 

Those of you who know me well have likely noticed we have not been online as much, and have been very busy here at home, but, that aside - I would be HAPPY to make things right with anyone - I love working with people, and I enjoy the community. We know many of you very well, and many of you are great friends to us. I love designing coins - its something I thoroughly love, and the people are a big part of why I enjoy it so much.

 

I have already sent refunds to several people who I have began work for - and want all of my customers to be very happy ones. I am in the process of wrapping up 3 more personal coins (All of which will be very special ones) - and after that, I will not be designing any further personal coin concepts with very FEW exceptions. I just don't have the extra time, and can't set a 'static' timeframe to have a finished concept - because sometimes I just dont know how long it will take for that final 'inspiration' to come.

 

I will be designing my usual coins - from ideas I've come up with - so watch for those. But, I dont want anyone else waiting, or disappointed - because I simply cannot provide a set or static timeframe - so personal coin designs will NOT be something I provide - unless, as I said, there is a special circumstance. Again, unhappy people is NOT something I want to see. :lol:

 

I dislike negativity as a whole - and try to avoid it at all costs. I try very hard to come up with unique ideas, and new concepts - but sometimes those take time. (Sometimes alot more than even I can plan for.) My goal is to come up with unique coins, that stand out in design, quality, and execution - I know many of you love them, and collect them, and I design them for those people who let me know they enjoy the work I do. So - if I can be allowed to get back to making people happy through my work, and make sure everyone is taken care of, and pleased - I'd appreciate that.

 

~P

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I thought I should post this as a note tho - the design for this coin was indeed completed, (I did the art as was specified) but the process with the mint was never completed. We had minor changes that would have been best done within mint art. Its unfortunate - as I completed it as was requested... was a pretty sharp coin, IMO. A shame it never came to be.

 

Jim felt strongly about posting this design - as completed - he was upset that it was insinuated that I did not do this art, when he knows how much I went back and forth over the details on this one.

 

007.jpg

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For 007's sake I though I'd post the art as he had adjusted by the other artist (Adjustments he wanted done). The Coin IS COMPLETED and was introduced by Dave at Geowoodstock 6.

 

72541db3-c457-44b4-b86f-5838594194ca.jpg

Edited by Castle Man

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I hate to bring this to the boards but I feel that this is the only way I am going to get my design completed and sent to me. I arranged for Paula Collins of CinemaBoxxers to design a coin for me a year ago and have yet to receive a final design. Has anyone encountered this problem as well?

I made payment via paypal June 7th, 07 and have nothing in return.

I know that the boards are no place to resolve conflict but with many email attempts and false promises and money spent, I feel that this is the place of last resort. How long should I wait for a design. I know Paula is in high demand because I see her art work all over the place and it is beautiful, but I have paid for services which have not been completed.

 

... taken care of by the way. :D

 

I would hope all of you who know me know that I would NEVER take advantage of ANYONE. I'm not comfortable with being talked badly about when most issues are coming from misunderstandings.

~P

 

I really seriously think it is very sad that someone has to take the last resort to get something solved that should have been taken care of months ago by the designer. I hope that all those who haven't received their designs will also receive their refund. To only give a refund when called out publically is very poor business ethics and practice. Excuse after excuse doesn't work and neither does a bunch of winky faces. Communication is the key and it really sounds like one side tried and the other didn't. No design and no refund a year after receiving the money is no misunderstanding. The OP is not the only one either. To hear the same experience from many different people is not the way to build a good business reputation.

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Communication is the key

I think that pretty much sums it up.

 

I've heard about spam filters not letting anything through, but you'd think after getting burned by that issue enough times that a vendor would either get a better ISP or a better email client that doesn't throw out messages from current or potential clients! :D

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I hate to bring this to the boards but I feel that this is the only way I am going to get my design completed and sent to me. ...

 

Something to ponder.

 

All artists have the gift of art. They can follow their muse to create things and express ideas that most of us flat out can't. Even if they are goofing off they can do art that's better than the best the rest of us could ever do. Some of these kinds of artists refuse to even acknolwege the other gifts artists can have. Some lack it and can't easily do things for others without their muse making it possible in the occasional flash of inspiration. I'll call this normally gifted. Meaning if you don't have this, you ain't an artist, nor will you ever be one.

 

There is an additional gift an artist can have that's more rare. Thats the gift of listening to others who don't have the gift of art and being able to capture their intent. The artist with this gift can show their client the finished product and the client would say "YES THAT'S IT!!!. That gift is much more rare than the ability to do art following your own muse. A tatoo artist better have this gift nailed down any time someone strays from the stock art.

 

The Character Howard Roark in The Fountainhead is a good example of someone who has another gift (in architeture in the book). He won't put what you want on paper. He would instead put what you really need down. It's another angle and perhpas the hardest of all to pull off. The resulting truly happy client would say. "Um, that's not at all what I had in mind but now that I see it I can see that it's what I really was meaning". A tattoo artist who can master this could tattoo the stars.

 

The lines between all of them are blurred. Inspiration can have an artist cross any line and do any of the above. The difference is really how easy it comes to them. Any one of us can throw a basket ball from across the court and sink a basket. Not all of us can do it anywhere near well.

 

CinemaBoxers based on what they said is a normally gifted artists who relies on her muse to come up with the Howard Roark angle on a clients list of artistic constraints. No muse, no ability to do you a good job. If you don't want to wait they could probably close out your project and do it better than you could but you will be missing whatever it is that her muse would come up with. Something you would probably like.

 

That's all made up. It helps to know your artist, or to like their style going in so you know that they are already inclined to make art you like. The muse is a funny thing. Sometimes it burns bright. Some times flits in and out before you can follow it. Some are as strong with it as Luke is with the force and some get it once but that once will stand out forever.

 

There you go. It won't help you much, but that's some art philosopy.

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Duplicate - and... taken care of by the way. :D

 

I've decided to make one reply - but only one.

 

When I'm working on a design, it sometimes takes me a short time if I have the concept figured out, and other times, I have a hard time conceptualizing an idea - and in those cases - I just can NOT get a final design figured out and finished until I have it finalized in my head.

 

I don't believe in sending a customer a medicore, half-baked concept. I like to have a polished final idea before I send something to a customer, and if I'm not happy with art, Im very negative about it. Several of the coins I've worked, or have been working on have been ones that I just have not been at all pleased with the concept, or the drafts I began. (One in particular was 99% finished when a VERY similar concept came out, and made me scrap the idea for the customers coin, and entirely rethink it - which set me back quite a bit.)

 

I would NEVER intentionally, EVER mislead, or not provide something that someone paid for - its a matter of the creative process taking longer than I would like it to. This is why I stopped taking personal coin design jobs over 6 months ago, as I really was finding it hard to work and conceptualize someone elses concept.

 

My own ideas usually come to me easily - but when someone says "Do this, I want this, like this" I have a VERY hard time being as creative when given strict directions to follow. The burden of trying to come up with ideas that fit within a guideline, yet satisfied my own sense of 'I love this design' was getting to be a LOT to deal with. I find myself unhappy with much of my work where Im given too many guidelines, and no freedom.

(And often Im not provided with any Guidance at all - which makes it hard in some cases!)

 

Now, I've worked and completed many designs - and people have been very happy with the job Ive done. I think I do lovely work, but when Im in a timeframe I indeed have a tough time completing a design, and being happy with it. And I think I have a VERY hard time providing a design I am unhappy with.

 

I would hope all of you who know me know that I would NEVER take advantage of ANYONE. I'm not comfortable with being talked badly about when most issues are coming from misunderstandings. We are always prompt with shipping out coins we sell - we want people to be happy. Sometimes, life gets in the way and I run out of time. :lol: However - we have enough friends who know that we are NOT dishonest people, nor would I ever take advantage of a friend, or anyone for that matter.

 

Those of you who know me well have likely noticed we have not been online as much, and have been very busy here at home, but, that aside - I would be HAPPY to make things right with anyone - I love working with people, and I enjoy the community. We know many of you very well, and many of you are great friends to us. I love designing coins - its something I thoroughly love, and the people are a big part of why I enjoy it so much.

 

I have already sent refunds to several people who I have began work for - and want all of my customers to be very happy ones. I am in the process of wrapping up 3 more personal coins (All of which will be very special ones) - and after that, I will not be designing any further personal coin concepts with very FEW exceptions. I just don't have the extra time, and can't set a 'static' timeframe to have a finished concept - because sometimes I just dont know how long it will take for that final 'inspiration' to come.

 

I will be designing my usual coins - from ideas I've come up with - so watch for those. But, I dont want anyone else waiting, or disappointed - because I simply cannot provide a set or static timeframe - so personal coin designs will NOT be something I provide - unless, as I said, there is a special circumstance. Again, unhappy people is NOT something I want to see. :D

 

I dislike negativity as a whole - and try to avoid it at all costs. I try very hard to come up with unique ideas, and new concepts - but sometimes those take time. (Sometimes alot more than even I can plan for.) My goal is to come up with unique coins, that stand out in design, quality, and execution - I know many of you love them, and collect them, and I design them for those people who let me know they enjoy the work I do. So - if I can be allowed to get back to making people happy through my work, and make sure everyone is taken care of, and pleased - I'd appreciate that.

 

~P

 

First I want to thank Groundspeak for unlocking this thread. You are doing a service to the community by allowing a wrong to be righted.

 

Secondly, please read between the lines of the above note. If you read the above you will see that that kind of wording was sent to me many times to "calm" my questioning regarding the finishing of the final product. The written words above prove why it took me a year to bring this to the forums. Pretty talk went a long way with me and I whole heartedly embraced it thinking I would never, ever be taken advantaged of by anyone in the geocaching community. I did not want to dare speak up because I assumed this person was a highly respected member of the geocaching group, so I did not want to bring this up, but since I have brought this to the boards, I found out many people are in my shoes with the same person.

 

All I can say is Buyer Beware.

 

As of 2:12 CST, I was told I would get a partial refund and my work in progress rough draft. I have not received it yet, but will alert the community when the transaction is completed.

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I hate to bring this to the boards but I feel that this is the only way I am going to get my design completed and sent to me. ...

...

 

The Character Howard Roark in The Fountainhead is a good example of someone who has another gift (in architeture in the book). He won't put what you want on paper. He would instead put what you really need down. It's another angle and perhpas the hardest of all to pull off. The resulting truly happy client would say. "Um, that's not at all what I had in mind but now that I see it I can see that it's what I really was meaning". A tattoo artist who can master this could tattoo the stars....

 

but howard roark did not accept money for a job he couldn't complete. even in the book, he came up with ideas he knew would work for the client, in a timely manner! roark was a professional in every sense of the word. his work ethic was one of the things that made him a standout among his peers. people didnt' line up to say "me too!" when he couldn't produce anything but excuses.

 

a real artist can beckon the muse. she/he doesn't have to wait until he comes a'knockin.

 

and when we get right down to it, art is just so subjective! gets us back to the question, what is art?

 

lara

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Duplicate - and... taken care of by the way. :D...

 

As of 2:12 CST, I was told I would get a partial refund and my work in progress rough draft. I have not received it yet, but will alert the community when the transaction is completed.

 

a partial refund? well, i think it would tell the designer, keep the rough draft and i want a full refund. job not completed.

 

sheesh i try to imagine what a client would say if i did a photo shoot and then said i'll give a partial refund and my storyboard, but can't produce the images. they would be suing my tookus!

 

hope that isn't OT.

 

good luck with the pretty words.

 

rsg

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As of 2:12 CST, I was told I would get a partial refund and my work in progress rough draft. I have not received it yet, but will alert the community when the transaction is completed.

Partial refund? So which part of the art are you getting and which side of the coin will you get as partial job completion? I would think after a year and no artwork completed you would get a full refund.

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Situations like this are precisely why I don't even offer to do custom artwork for others. I'm only a mediocre artist with mediocre talent and I know it, lol!

 

I'd love to be able to truly create artwork, but I take the things I've done from things I've seen and liked and tweaked and made them my own, one way or another.

 

I just don't have the talent/ability to sit down and create like a true artist does, but my heart wishes it could!

 

Anyway, that's why I haven't taken on any custom jobs and have actually turned down a couple.

 

That, and a major lack of time! I think I would go nuts from the stress and potential guilty conscience of not getting something done on time/worrying about not living up to the expectations of the customer/and worrying that they might think that I was being dishonest if I took too long!

 

I've enough grey hair as it is without the added help of those things, lol!

 

Naomi :D

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A year later and only a partial refund? Hmm... :D

 

I wonder if we'll hear from someone's hosiery in this thread.

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A year later and only a partial refund? Hmm... :D

 

I wonder if we'll hear from someone's hosiery in this thread.

 

I agree. Partial refund my foot. And while we are talking about feet..........

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Sorry folks, but indeed work was done on this coin... I put alot of work into it, and we went through several changes. (Suncatcher type, non-suncatcher type, etc.)

 

I forwarded the art that was completed, and already refunded what was requested. Case closed, and I wish them well!

 

From now on, I'll be sticking to my own projects and those personal coins where I can run wild with em. Renegade hit the nail on the head - some work just comes to you... others, its very difficult to come up with something that represents both my style, and the clients wishes.

 

I simply can NOT provide art that I personally feel is mediocre for the sake of meeting a deadline. Thats not my style - my designs might take longer, but in the end, I promise they will be worth the wait.

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Sorry folks, but indeed work was done on this coin... I put alot of work into it, and we went through several changes. (Suncatcher type, non-suncatcher type, etc.)

 

I forwarded the art that was completed, and already refunded what was requested. Case closed, and I wish them well!

 

From now on, I'll be sticking to my own projects and those personal coins where I can run wild with em. Renegade hit the nail on the head - some work just comes to you... others, its very difficult to come up with something that represents both my style, and the clients wishes.

 

I simply can NOT provide art that I personally feel is mediocre for the sake of meeting a deadline. Thats not my style - my designs might take longer, but in the end, I promise they will be worth the wait.

 

regardless of what work you have already put work into this coin, you did not finish the job and should not be paid at all. there is something called "punitive" damages and because you messed this up, you should have to pay the consequences.

 

that is what being a professional is about. taking responsibilty for your actions or in this case, inactions.

 

so far i haven't see an apology to the folks that have had these problems with your design service. only excuses that you couldn't create the coin.

 

even if there are only a FEW exceptions where you create for someone else as you said before, if you take money, you are acting as a professional and that means meeting all the guidelines for behaving like a professional, including deadlines.

 

rsg

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Before things get too heated may I suggest that we leave the majority of posts in this thread to those that are DIRECTLY affected by it?

 

Now, you could argue that everybody is affected because of the community ties, trust, etc. but those general comments might be better served in the other (general) thread.

 

Those outside of this particular issue should think twice about jumping in and dog-piling - even if unintentionally.

 

If there are others who are affected, they should speak up as well.

 

Feedback and open discussion are good.

Bringing out the torches are not.

 

We haven't gotten there yet, but food for thought before posting.

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Sorry folks, but indeed work was done on this coin... I put alot of work into it, and we went through several changes. (Suncatcher type, non-suncatcher type, etc.)

 

I forwarded the art that was completed, and already refunded what was requested. Case closed, and I wish them well!

 

From now on, I'll be sticking to my own projects and those personal coins where I can run wild with em. Renegade hit the nail on the head - some work just comes to you... others, its very difficult to come up with something that represents both my style, and the clients wishes.

 

I simply can NOT provide art that I personally feel is mediocre for the sake of meeting a deadline. Thats not my style - my designs might take longer, but in the end, I promise they will be worth the wait.

 

regardless of what work you have already put work into this coin, you did not finish the job and should not be paid at all. there is something called "punitive" damages and because you messed this up, you should have to pay the consequences.

 

that is what being a professional is about. taking responsibilty for your actions or in this case, inactions.

 

so far i haven't see an apology to the folks that have had these problems with your design service. only excuses that you couldn't create the coin.

 

even if there are only a FEW exceptions where you create for someone else as you said before, if you take money, you are acting as a professional and that means meeting all the guidelines for behaving like a professional, including deadlines.

 

rsg

 

There are two sides to every story and we really don't know how many changes were asked/how often/how major.. I know in my industry when the customer askes for changes, we ask for more money.

 

and when the customer gives us more money, I still end up slamming my head against the wall a few times for all the wasted effort..

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Sorry folks, but indeed work was done on this coin... I put alot of work into it, and we went through several changes. (Suncatcher type, non-suncatcher type, etc.)

 

I forwarded the art that was completed, and already refunded what was requested. Case closed, and I wish them well!

 

From now on, I'll be sticking to my own projects and those personal coins where I can run wild with em. Renegade hit the nail on the head - some work just comes to you... others, its very difficult to come up with something that represents both my style, and the clients wishes.

 

I simply can NOT provide art that I personally feel is mediocre for the sake of meeting a deadline. Thats not my style - my designs might take longer, but in the end, I promise they will be worth the wait.

 

regardless of what work you have already put work into this coin, you did not finish the job and should not be paid at all. there is something called "punitive" damages and because you messed this up, you should have to pay the consequences.

 

that is what being a professional is about. taking responsibilty for your actions or in this case, inactions.

 

so far i haven't see an apology to the folks that have had these problems with your design service. only excuses that you couldn't create the coin.

 

even if there are only a FEW exceptions where you create for someone else as you said before, if you take money, you are acting as a professional and that means meeting all the guidelines for behaving like a professional, including deadlines.

 

rsg

 

I'm not sure what your experience with professional artists consists of, but I can speak as both an artist and an A.D. that professionals require retainers (whether they're artists, carpenters or wedding planners). Money that is not paid back regardless of the outcome. Far too often people decide on a whim that they want professional assistance and then change their minds once the bill comes due. It's the same reason contractors require partial payment up front. A retainer ensures that the client is committed to the project. Because it's only a portion of the payment, it also helps ensure a project to continue moving forward for future payment. I'm not about to start a project from someone who promises with flowery words that they're committed to their idea only to be told that they changed their mind after I've done all the groundwork for their design and wasted hours & hours of labor. Meanwhile, people who really are committed are standing by the wayside or going elsewhere for their work. We don't know how many hours and/or versions of the coin were made up to the point of division so let's not make assumptions. ;)

 

By the way, punitive damages are not awarded in order to compensate the plaintiff, but in order to reform or deter the defendant and similar persons from pursuing a course of action such as that which damaged the plaintiff.

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...
that is what being a professional is about. taking responsibilty for your actions or in this case, inactions.

 

so far i haven't see an apology to the folks that have had these problems with your design service. only excuses that you couldn't create the coin.

 

even if there are only a FEW exceptions where you create for someone else as you said before, if you take money, you are acting as a professional and that means meeting all the guidelines for behaving like a professional, including deadlines.

 

rsg

 

I'm not sure what your experience with professional artists consists of, but I can speak as both an artist and an A.D. that professionals require retainers (whether they're artists, carpenters or wedding planners). Money that is not paid back regardless of the outcome. Far too often people decide on a whim that they want professional assistance and then change their minds once the bill comes due. It's the same reason contractors require partial payment up front. A retainer ensures that the client is committed to the project. Because it's only a portion of the payment, it also helps ensure a project to continue moving forward for future payment. I'm not about to start a project from someone who promises with flowery words that they're committed to their idea only to be told that they changed their mind after I've done all the groundwork for their design and wasted hours & hours of labor. Meanwhile, people who really are committed are standing by the wayside or going elsewhere for their work. We don't know how many hours and/or versions of the coin were made up to the point of division so let's not make assumptions. ;)

 

 

i am a professional photographer and writer so we are both speaking from personal experience. i know if i don't do a job after being retained, that is an entirely different story than being retained to do a job and having the client cancel. the same with contractors. if the person doing the hiring does the "quitting" he loses his retainer, but if the contractor bails after accepting a retainer, he is liable.

 

it comes down to who did what and when.

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Sorry folks, but indeed work was done on this coin... I put alot of work into it, and we went through several changes. (Suncatcher type, non-suncatcher type, etc.)

 

I forwarded the art that was completed, and already refunded what was requested. Case closed, and I wish them well!

 

From now on, I'll be sticking to my own projects and those personal coins where I can run wild with em. Renegade hit the nail on the head - some work just comes to you... others, its very difficult to come up with something that represents both my style, and the clients wishes.

 

I simply can NOT provide art that I personally feel is mediocre for the sake of meeting a deadline. Thats not my style - my designs might take longer, but in the end, I promise they will be worth the wait.

 

Regarding Suncatcher or not suncatcher -- YOU told me that IT COULD NOT BE DONE! I wanted a Suncatcher you said no and it was never brought up again, so that is a blatant lie! We only spoke of it once and that was to agree that you would not do a suncatcher of my idea!

 

I know there are two sides to every story. How about "her" side and the side of the other customers who have had fradulant dealings with her.

 

As of 4:57, I have received a partial refund of $50.00, - 1.75 paypal fee, but no finalized artwork.

 

Just send me what you have Paula so I can get assistance from another artist who is not in constant turmoil with the muse!

Edited by georeynozos

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I'll chime in here, since I am one of the ones directly affected by this issue.

 

I first paid for Paula's services in December 2007. Time-wise, I said I wanted a coin in hand for GW6. Concept-wise, there wasn't one other than my Kokopelli, ideally similar to my 1st coin, be included. It didn't have to be the central figure. I also sent a good amount of information about me and my life to help the muse along. (As you can see, I was the customer with a 99% finished coin Paula mentions.) From me, there was never a "Do this, I want this, like this." type of statement from me, although I did give her some idea of which of her coins I liked the best. Paula was given a mostly free reign. I also told her that if the muse wasn't there for her, I would understand and we could scrape the project. That never happened.

 

I guess that one of the issues I had with this project is that there was an ultimate deadline agreed to at the onset, and in late March it was still do-able per her. As I realized that things weren't going to happen as I had hoped, I settled in my own mind for Summer. But when summer arrived, I still had nothing, not even the design, and that told me the sad truth that it wasn't going to happen.

 

When I met somebody at GW6 who had been waiting longer than I, I knew I was in trouble design-wise, especially when rumors of others in the same boat as me started surfacing. Things came to a head for me last week while in a chat room -- I won't go into those details, but it was what made me take the bull by the horns and start closing/ending my design relationship with her, as my joy in this coin (the excitement of working with her and having a beautiful coin designed by her, the joy that should be inherent in such a project) was gone. It all culminated in the sending of an e-mail early last Friday. When that produced no response, I tried again this morning, this time sending the same (original) message to four e-mail addresses. At this point I felt like I was getting mean ;), but there was a specific idea that I had that might work. It worked (I'm sure these threads also had an effect), and I got a response and a partial refund this morning, less the PayPal fee ;)

 

I allowed for a partial refund, because I was told that there was work done (although I have never seen it) and I'd like to believe her. I also got an e-mail from her this morning saying that she "had completed a Kokopelli patterned design, and was working on completing the reverse side." If that is truly the case and she truly wants to make me think she has earned the money I allowed her to keep, then it should be posted here or e-mailed to me.

 

Paula said earlier in this thread:

I dislike negativity as a whole - and try to avoid it at all costs. *snip* So - if I can be allowed to get back to making people happy through my work, and make sure everyone is taken care of, and pleased - I'd appreciate that.

Don't we all dislike negativity, and I love to avoid it whenever possible, but life just isn't like that. All of this could have been so easily avoided. Nobody is stopping you from getting back to making people happy through your work, but sometimes you get bit in the rear and have temporarily stop other things to take care of it. Hopefully there's something to learn for all of us from this.

 

And I'll close by saying what I've always said -- Paula, you are one talented coin artist and I have nothing but admiration and respect for your abilities.

 

Edited for content/typo.

Edited by FluteFace

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Now that names are out in the open, I would like to clarify a few things. When I contacted Paula about a signature coin design, I specifically asked if she had time since it was obvious her popularity was picking up. I was told no problem.....my design was simple - just a blue motmot bird on a branch....I was never told it has hard for her to grasp the concept or be inspired by the concept - in fact I was told she had a great idea for the feathers and it would be awesome. this was sometime last summer ......I contacted her in October and was told it was almost done but she was busy planning a party for her kids. The holidays came and went.....I started emailing every couple of weeks, saying i would love to have the coin by GWVI, most of my emails were ignored, some I was told just a couple more days. Then I was told the hold-up was she was designing a coin for THE JEREMY and it was taking longer than she thought...hmmm.... me thinks I likely paid before he did......

 

I had given up any resolution when this thread started. Now I know I am not the only one taken advanage of. If she had been honest at any time and said she couldn't/wouldn't finish the coin I could have moved on to another designer.

 

IMHO, Paula's response above is a cop-out. I received my refund today, but I think all of us who were taken for a ride by her are also deserve an apology. Life happens, so just tell someone you can't do their design and refund their money.

 

At this point, I will treat this experience as I would any other buying/shopping horror and avoid purchasing any coins designed by her. I'm only an army of one but that is all I can do.

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Im sorry you feel that way, no design is ever 'put off' for another. It just doesnt work like that. I work on whichever design I have ideas on.

 

I also am sorry you will not be collecting my coins, and I do not at all believe I was dishonest with you, or anyone else.

 

Again, its a matter of not taking personal coin commissions any longer- I just don't enjoy them like I enjoy doing my own concepts.

 

It all comes down to the time pressure, and limitations - they are something I've had issues with as compared to working on my own ideas and just letting designs develop with time. Many of my favorite designs are ones I worked on for quite some time, and Im afraid personal coin designs don't allow the time needed for me to put everything I want into them.

 

I did design the first BlueMotMot coin, and also did revise the coin for the second version (edited it for Stained glass look at no charge) - we have worked together well before.

Edited by CinemaBoxers

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While I'm not a person involved in this, I do have a couple things to say.

 

If there was no timeframe set, that is the fault of both parties, but mainly the customer.

 

Where time frame have been set, then the artist needs to be upfront about what is happening as said dateline approches, or worse, passes.

 

In many business where there is a deadline the person doing the work normally has to refund a portion of the payment back for each agreed upon time unit that has past.

 

Work that has been done should be paid for, though at an agreed upon discount if a timeframe was involved.

 

As some of these transactions took place via PayPal there might be a form one can file. I don't know how their policy works for things like this.

 

It an artist is going to push back current projects to work on something from a new client then they need to contact their current clients and seek permission from them first.

 

The artist also needs to know their limit; how many projects can you handle at one time?

 

Those are a few things I thought should be said.

 

Now here is another:

 

Does anyone want to help draw-up an artist/client agreement form? Something that each party can use to protect themselves when things like this arise? It would not be something manditory, but may help in the future. This would only be an agreement between the artist and client. Groundspeak/Geocaching.com would have no liability, nor anyone assisting in creating the fill-in the blank form.

 

maldar

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At this point, I will treat this experience as I would any other buying/shopping horror and avoid purchasing any coins designed by her. I'm only an army of one but that is all I can do.

 

While I understand where you are coming from, I think this hurts the owner of the coin more. I buy coins based on if I like the design; and while she made the design, it was the one that comissioned the artist that provided the idea.

 

I don't know if I'm making any sense, I hope I am; as I see someone that has all these coins that are not selling questioning whether (sp?) or not to have more coins made. This could prevent someone from making what could be a awesome coin. I would not like to have that happen.

 

If anything, you should just not buy coins she is selling herself or having someone sell for her. Don't punish the client, punish the artist. I really hate to say that, but it is the better way.

 

maldar

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Again, its a matter of not taking personal coin commissions any longer- I just don't enjoy them like I enjoy doing my own concepts.

 

At this point, I will treat this experience as I would any other buying/shopping horror and avoid purchasing any coins designed by her. I'm only an army of one but that is all I can do.

 

If anything, you should just not buy coins she is selling herself or having someone sell for her. Don't punish the client, punish the artist. I really hate to say that, but it is the better way.

 

maldar

 

As CB stated above she is not taking on further personal coin commissions and is going with her own concepts meaning she will be making commercial coins and minting and selling them through her own company I would imagine. The army is not an army of one but has grown by one.

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I thought I should post this as a note tho - the design for this coin was indeed completed, (I did the art as was specified) but the process with the mint was never completed. We had minor changes that would have been best done within mint art. Its unfortunate - as I completed it as was requested... was a pretty sharp coin, IMO. A shame it never came to be.

 

Jim felt strongly about posting this design - as completed - he was upset that it was insinuated that I did not do this art, when he knows how much I went back and forth over the details on this one.

 

007.jpg

 

Well, ill have to shed some light on the subject...Sounds like a Minting problem! Not quite ;)

 

I contacted Paula in March of 07 and presented my Hand-drawn Artwork to have a useable design to submit to a CAD artist. I payed 100.00 design fee up front and the work then began!- I was very happy! I included my artwork, images of picks, disc baskets, Calibears, Redwood Trees and anything I could think of to make quick work for her.

 

2d979518-24ec-4f22-8f1e-37f045c9d035.jpg

dd63a8b4-0310-4780-88e0-f87fe9a7204d.jpg

 

Now we came to a conclusion that the shape would not work without taking away from other features and headway was being made, I was submitted my first rough draft within a few days time! :D

 

18bf1c23-001c-4c27-88a0-e356ba334cb5.jpg

 

It needed some work, such as Bigger tire, larger state and centering of the wrench and pick aswell as a few other features I had asked for.

 

069c662d-4af1-4e81-b323-ab1f8b5f9746.jpg

 

We were making headway, but as I recall, it took a few more days and the Tire needed a rim, the colors on the arrows and most importantly the wrench and pick to centered!!! (afterall this was the main focal point)

A few weeks went by with various emailings that it was almost done and "a few more tweaks"

 

This was titled "Final Art" 82684ba5-6f6d-49cd-b5e7-f6c44547762f.jpg

 

It still was not done! The Geo-wheel still did not look good and it was a must! I asked drop the pick, extend the wrench and center them, etc...More emails as to it was almost done, next week, a few days etc. (many emails) I was getting frusterated but was always polite. Weeks and up to a month went by (I cant exactly recall) till I contacted her again and recieved the same "Couple days", Beginning of next week thing. and it wa sthen that I received what you see.

 

007.jpg

 

The Wrench and pick were still not centered!!! But its almost there!!! ;) I asked Jim and others if I am too picky and they agreed I was not.

I asked for the same changes to be made being precise as to whatI wanted it to look like (extend the wrench, move the pick a hair), made suggestions and again went back and forth with the "HimHa" ...I got frustarted again and walked away for awhile thinkin itwould never get done and just wasnt happy with the current design. It was a Month or 2 when I contacted her yet again and was fed the same line "I sent it", and finally "where were we?" I sent the last design that you see and asked for the same changes.

I stated that I really wanted it by my caching B-day and when that was not met, again before the end of the year so I could have my "2-007 edition" Same BS as to it was being worked on, few days, etc. I even asked if she needed help with it.

 

Well now it was 2008 and I had given up for awhile, then wanted to make it happen!!! I contacted my designer and gave him the design...He was confused as it was ALMOST done!!!

I contacted her to tell her I was choosing a new designer and may use some aspects of her design to make quick work. She informed me the changes were made and it was sent to me!!! I informed the new designer it was taken care of, appologized and thanked him for his time.

 

I NEVER received another design... after a few more weeks she told me "You didnt get it?", "I sent it to jim" well, he never saw it either!!! She eventually told me to have the CAD artist fix it! Prior to this I had already tried to have Jim fix it and he had his CAD artist try but couldnt without lots of time spent.

 

It was a couple more months and we never spoke again. One email I got asking to send her an email and I did, with no response!

 

It was now 2 months prior to GW6 and I contacted Jim to ask if he was till on through all this BS...He sure was! :D I contacted the secondary designer and the process took about a week or so!!! I payed for the design AFTER all was completed and I was happy!...I then had my coin in hand after 3 weeks wait from the mint!!! :D

 

The only reason I posted the whole entire process is that Paula had told a friend of mine she had no interest in my design any more because I kept on requesting changes!!! All I wanted was my design to be finished!!!

 

I never requested my money back, as she did spend a lot of time on it and I just didnt want to deal with it anymore!... Cant say I didnt think about it though, just never persued it. I could definatley go for some funds, but thats up to her to decide-Im here.

 

I am sorry it all came to this and after reading all this, I think its best for her to persue her own designs... All I ever got from her was false hope and an almost done design...IT WAS SO CLOSE!!!!!! I called it quits multiple times and persued help from at least 3 others...1 telling me they just had too much goin on, which I appreciated very much.

 

Im sorry Paula, but let the truth be known...as a community that we call ourselves, it was just a matter of time. ;) Maybethings happen for a reason...I never woulda had my little Emmagem as part of it had it been done in a timely mannor, for that it was worth the wait! ;)

 

Im done now...sorry for the rant!

Edited by 007BigD

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This has been a very interesting and very enlightening thread to read. While my first coin is of my own free-hand design, I am certainly no artist. I have ideas but no talent. I will definitely need help with my next project and I am just in the beginning stages of getting some information about cost/time frames of working with a designer. So in that sense alone, this thread has been a life-saver. I had no idea that these types of issues were brewing out there and I can't believe the patience that some of you have shown over the long delays in your projects.

 

I started the process for my coin in early May and I'm due to get the samples any day and I thought THAT was a long time... wow. After reading this thread, I have a whole new idea of what the word patience means. I understand completely the excitement and anticipation of seeing a project through and going for months and months with nothing to show for it would've made me want to pull my hair out.

 

And I'd like to say for anyone out there considering a coin project that Sharon at Hogwildstuff has been a complete joy to work with. I know there are other great companies out there too, but being new to all this she really took a lot of time to help guide me through the process and never once lost her patience with me and all of my questions - hundreds of questions. ;)

 

Communication in this type of business is obviously key. When it is lacking - there are bound to be problems like those described on this thread. When it's consistent and reliable, then that makes all the difference in the world. Maybe that is the take-home message here.

 

And thanks to TPTB for re-opening this thread. I think this discussion is well worth it and probably long overdue.

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And I'd like to say for anyone out there considering a coin project that Sharon at Hogwildstuff has been a complete joy to work with. I know there are other great companies out there too, but being new to all this she really took a lot of time to help guide me through the process and never once lost her patience with me and all of my questions - hundreds of questions. ;)

 

Communication in this type of business is obviously key. When it is lacking - there are bound to be problems like those described on this thread. When it's consistent and reliable, then that makes all the difference in the world. Maybe that is the take-home message here.

 

LOL. I'm sorry but I cannot help but laugh. Try dealing with the mint and explaining what you mean, so much is truely "Lost In Translation."

 

maldar

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Don't know how that Dbl Posted

 

maldar

Edited by maldar

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My main headache with personal coins is that its hard to translate someone elses ideas into something you can both be happy with... Ive learned that I dont ENJOY doing personals in most cases. I just dont get the freedom I have on my own coins and designs.

 

As far as coin sales and minting - we are fast, speedy, and absolutely reliable. But - above those things - we produce beautiful coins - which is the priority, and is also the reason my designs take longer. Its easy for me to put out a simple line drawing - if I wanted to, but I dont like that type of art, or coin design. I simply refuse to rush out a design and make something ordinary.

 

Again, miscommunication can be an issue - but just as many clients say to me "Do what you want with it, take your time, just make it wonderful"

 

Which... I absolutely do my best to make happen.

 

Again - I work hard to make them all special. Understand that takes some time - this will just give me more time to put into my own concepts. I've heard from quite a few of you today who enjoy my work, and I appreciate that...

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. . . no design is ever 'put off' for another. It just doesnt work like that. I work on whichever design I have ideas on.

This seems like a contradiction to me. ;)

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. . . no design is ever 'put off' for another. It just doesnt work like that. I work on whichever design I have ideas on.

This seems like a contradiction to me. ;)

 

Absolutely not...

 

I simply work on different coins in tandem. Im usually working on multiple designs at once.

I don't and don't know anyone else who does art who sits and works on one thing until completion.

I bounce back and forth on my current projects - working on the one that I have gotten the 'idea' or inspiration on.

 

If I sit and look at it, and don't know quite what to do with it, I put it away, and work on a different one.

No deliberate "This can wait" its simply, "I KNOW what to do with THIS one" as compared to, "I need to rethink my approach on this design". I keep working and reworking until they are complete, and until I absolutely love them all.

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My main headache with personal coins is that its hard to translate someone elses ideas into something you can both be happy with... Ive learned that I dont ENJOY doing personals in most cases. I just dont get the freedom I have on my own coins and designs.

 

As far as coin sales and minting - we are fast, speedy, and absolutely reliable. But - above those things - we produce beautiful coins - which is the priority, and is also the reason my designs take longer. Its easy for me to put out a simple line drawing - if I wanted to, but I dont like that type of art, or coin design. I simply refuse to rush out a design and make something ordinary.

 

Again, miscommunication can be an issue - but just as many clients say to me "Do what you want with it, take your time, just make it wonderful"

 

Which... I absolutely do my best to make happen.

 

Again - I work hard to make them all special. Understand that takes some time - this will just give me more time to put into my own concepts. I've heard from quite a few of you today who enjoy my work, and I appreciate that...

Exactly how long did it take you to place a GPS in the hands of the Lady Luck since it was already someone else's art to begin with?

 

You can't make claims that you won't rush a job and you only can design when your creative juices are flowing, then take someone else's art and make the most minor of additions, claim it as your own, then rush the job to mint. Then turn around anytime you are short on cash, and mint the coin again. Shamelessly bumping your own thread day after day is a clear indicator that it's not selling up to par.

 

The bottom line is when you take someone's money for a job, you are telling them you will be able to complete it. Maybe you are better off not taking any money upfront and telling them you will contact them when you are insipred since this seems to be your fall back excuse for not being able to deliver what you promised and were paid for.

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My main headache with personal coins is that its hard to translate someone elses ideas into something you can both be happy with... Ive learned that I dont ENJOY doing personals in most cases. I just dont get the freedom I have on my own coins and designs.

 

As far as coin sales and minting - we are fast, speedy, and absolutely reliable. But - above those things - we produce beautiful coins - which is the priority, and is also the reason my designs take longer. Its easy for me to put out a simple line drawing - if I wanted to, but I dont like that type of art, or coin design. I simply refuse to rush out a design and make something ordinary.

 

Again, miscommunication can be an issue - but just as many clients say to me "Do what you want with it, take your time, just make it wonderful"

 

Which... I absolutely do my best to make happen.

 

Again - I work hard to make them all special. Understand that takes some time - this will just give me more time to put into my own concepts. I've heard from quite a few of you today who enjoy my work, and I appreciate that...

 

As of 7:48 CST I have received my final art work. As Jim Collins told me in his personal note, "the job is considered done."

 

I think it is the utmost importance to start two topics to be pinned.

 

First Topic:

 

Buyers, steps on designing a coin, selecting a designer, ranges of costs etc.

 

Second:

Designers: Expectations from buyers, what is your turnaround time. Give references. Can I go to another website and ask a minter if you are highly recommended.

 

I know the different minting services have their definition of steps, but can a general guideline be set up to help newbie buyers of coins and minting services. It is a must, especially in today's market.

 

I would love for Groundspeak to host the pinned topics. It is really a guide for people to use, not to hold them liable but suggestions to go though the baby steps of minting a coin and selecting a designer.

 

Paula, I do not even know what to say. I see your posts and never see any responsibility taken, just dance around the topic, I am a great designer, my minting services are great etc., I can not take peoples designs, I need to use my own. Where is -- I am sorry! I should not have dragged a couple of dozen people on a leash and used them to create something that I was never gonna give them back. Keep giving me your business, I will not dupe you!

 

If you would have told me a year ago, what you are telling the geocaching community now, I would have never hired you.

 

Paula thanked people who supported her, I as well want to thank people who wrote me and told me the were proud of me. They were in the same boat as me, out of money because of her etc. I too have heard from alot of people and I too want to thank them for their blessings. At first I thought I was alone and I thought Groundspeak was going to allow this designer to hide behind rules, but this matter has been solved, and thanks to Groundspeak for allowing this to be brought to the forefront.

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My main headache with personal coins is that its hard to translate someone elses ideas into something you can both be happy with... Ive learned that I dont ENJOY doing personals in most cases. I just dont get the freedom I have on my own coins and designs.

Beyond an iconic type of figure that didn't have to be central, I only gave you suggested symbols of me/my life -- nothing that absolutely had to be used, but never got anything back to start being happy about. Being happy about your design never was the issue -- I never saw it, although you say you have one side finished which, btw, I have paid for. Shouldn't I (or the community) see it? Or you could refund the additional $50.

 

As far as coin sales and minting - we are fast, speedy, and absolutely reliable. But - above those things - we produce beautiful coins - which is the priority, and is also the reason my designs take longer. Its easy for me to put out a simple line drawing - if I wanted to, but I dont like that type of art, or coin design. I simply refuse to rush out a design and make something ordinary.

I think that all this is true . . . I've never had a problem with purchasing coins from you. Those sales have been prompt and correct. The coins are beautiful.

 

Again, miscommunication can be an issue - but just as many clients say to me "Do what you want with it, take your time, just make it wonderful"

And yes, I did say much of that, but you knew well in advance when I wanted it and never told me that there was a problem with that. As has been pointed out, this was a communication issue.

 

Which... I absolutely do my best to make happen.

Hmmm . . .

 

Again - I work hard to make them all special. Understand that takes some time - this will just give me more time to put into my own concepts. I've heard from quite a few of you today who enjoy my work, and I appreciate that...

I still do appreciate your work, I just wish it had worked out better on a more personal level. ;)

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. . . no design is ever 'put off' for another. It just doesnt work like that. I work on whichever design I have ideas on.

This seems like a contradiction to me. ;)

 

Absolutely not...

 

I simply work on different coins in tandem. Im usually working on multiple designs at once.

I don't and don't know anyone else who does art who sits and works on one thing until completion.

I bounce back and forth on my current projects - working on the one that I have gotten the 'idea' or inspiration on.

 

If I sit and look at it, and don't know quite what to do with it, I put it away, and work on a different one.

No deliberate "This can wait" its simply, "I KNOW what to do with THIS one" as compared to, "I need to rethink my approach on this design". I keep working and reworking until they are complete, and until I absolutely love them all.

 

You have no shame, I am not beleiving you!!

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As of 7:48 CST I have received my final art work. As Jim Collins told me in his personal note, "the job is considered done."

Congratulations . . . I think. My question is highly personal, and if you don't answer it here, I understand. My question is . . .

 

Do you still feel the same joy for this project as you had when you started?

 

I'll give you public kudos for starting this, because I do not have that kind of chutzpah, also preferring to eschew negativity. After all, who wants to bring this kind of seemingly dirty laundry out in public, epecially when it concerns somebody whose designs are as well thought of as Paula's.

 

You, georeynozos, are an asset to the community.

 

And of course, thanks, for opening the door for the rest of us.

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I see your posts and never see any responsibility taken, just dance around the topic, I am a great designer, my minting services are great etc., I can not take peoples designs, I need to use my own. Where is -- I am sorry!

 

Exactly. It would appear that a personal hobby-turned-profession didn't work out right. That happens.

In any line of business there are issues that come up. The companies/people that succeed are the ones who take responsibility for their mistakes and make things right.

 

I've worked with many companies that made mistakes. I continue to work with the ones that own up to it, do the right thing and take corrective actions. I've stopped working with the ones who don't.

 

My job is no different. When my team makes a mistake, it's my job to make it right and keep the client happy. Not to tell them that we are a multi-million dollar company with clients like <insert big name here> who are all happy, or to talk about my personal philosophy.

 

This could have gone down differently but it's obviously not an isolated incident. Like other issues that have come up in the past, some will ignore this, some will take action (like stop buying coins from this person) and others are just here for the show.

 

While I've seen a few designs that looked original, but not to my liking/taste, the majority of them (including the 007 coin referenced above) seemed to be nothing more than "arranging clip art" versus original designs.

I say this not to pile on, but to express extreme surprise at teh explanation of why things took so long.

 

So how does this affect me? Based on what I've read here I won't be adding any of this designer's coins to my collection via purchase, trade or any other method going forward (I believe I do have one or two in there now).

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Does anyone want to help draw-up an artist/client agreement form? Something that each party can use to protect themselves when things like this arise? It would not be something manditory, but may help in the future. This would only be an agreement between the artist and client. Groundspeak/Geocaching.com would have no liability, nor anyone assisting in creating the fill-in the blank form.

 

While I can make no promises, I worked for a Law Office a few summers back and I believe I still have some boilerplate templates for these types of business agreements. However I am not sure they are applicable to interstate / international commercial transactions. Nor how they may be formally recognized without signatures and a notary. (I'll look into this deeper)

 

It is clear from this topic that it is in the best interest of the buyer and seller/artist to have a formal agreement that clearly defines terms and the repercussions for violation of the terms. While it would be wonderful to be able to simply trust that all will work out I believe that it is also naive. Even Judge Judy reccomends basic contracts for things like wedding photography, DJs, limos, and every other thing on the face of the planet.

 

That said, I do not wish to address the specifics of this particular series of transactions other than to say that I hope we are able to learn from these experiences and come away as a stronger more respectful community.

 

*not throwing poo for once*

Big Eared Monkey

The_Geomonkeys

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As of 7:48 CST I have received my final art work. As Jim Collins told me in his personal note, "the job is considered done."

Congratulations . . . I think. My question is highly personal, and if you don't answer it here, I understand. My question is . . .

 

Do you still feel the same joy for this project as you had when you started?

 

I'll give you public kudos for starting this, because I do not have that kind of chutzpah, also preferring to eschew negativity. After all, who wants to bring this kind of seemingly dirty laundry out in public, epecially when it concerns somebody whose designs are as well thought of as Paula's.

 

You, georeynozos, are an asset to the community.

 

And of course, thanks, for opening the door for the rest of us.

 

What I feel good about is the people who have written me and told me I will help get the project off the ground. These are people that I have purchased coins and have had very positive transactions with me. I will assure you, I have spent quite a bit on coins, not only for my own "sig item" but from others as well.

 

The coin conception have evolved from depression to delight, knowing that a wrong was righted. And if you ask me if I am happy, yes I am, I had a community of people, maybe not all, but quite a few who stood with me and righted a wrong. So this coin will be a reminder that we are a community, trying to help eachother, even when things go wrong.

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Suffice it to say lessons were learned on both sides of this issue. Lets just move on already. Peace.

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I'm not directly involved in these matters but have something to say about statements I've seen here in this thread.

 

Firstly..."Work that has been done..." should only need to be paid for if it is delivered. I don't care if someone has spent 1000 hours working on my design. If you deliver me NOTHING, then I should pay NOTHING.

 

As far as Dealing with the MUSE...an artist who cannot get through Artist Block in time to produce a procuct in a timely manner, should not be hiring out for comissioned works. I am an artist, but do not do art for hire, since I do not want stipulations placed by others on what my art should be. I also do not hire out because I cannot always deliver a product in a timely manner, that meets the expectations of a client.

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Does anyone want to help draw-up an artist/client agreement form? Something that each party can use to protect themselves when things like this arise? It would not be something manditory, but may help in the future. This would only be an agreement between the artist and client. Groundspeak/Geocaching.com would have no liability, nor anyone assisting in creating the fill-in the blank form.

 

While I can make no promises, I worked for a Law Office a few summers back and I believe I still have some boilerplate templates for these types of business agreements. However I am not sure they are applicable to interstate / international commercial transactions. Nor how they may be formally recognized without signatures and a notary. (I'll look into this deeper)

 

It is clear from this topic that it is in the best interest of the buyer and seller/artist to have a formal agreement that clearly defines terms and the repercussions for violation of the terms. While it would be wonderful to be able to simply trust that all will work out I believe that it is also naive. Even Judge Judy reccomends basic contracts for things like wedding photography, DJs, limos, and every other thing on the face of the planet.

 

That said, I do not wish to address the specifics of this particular series of transactions other than to say that I hope we are able to learn from these experiences and come away as a stronger more respectful community.

 

*not throwing poo for once*

Big Eared Monkey

The_Geomonkeys

Maybe they will be a good model for a "Best Practices" agreement, as opposed to a formal legal agreement. To start with maybe an agreed upon set of "Best Practices" will be enough to avoid these kinds of problems in the future? Edited by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

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I hope this is not OT, but I would like to know why people are saying they will not buy GeocoinDesign coins anymore?

 

Jim and Paula produce coins of an excellent quality, and package and ship immediately. Their prices aren't ludicrously high. They fix problems immediately with site stuff-ups during sales, and have gone above and beyond for quite a few people, you know who you are. Some of those people have metaphorically slapped them in the face.

 

I pretty much know what these two have gone through in the past year, and what they are going through now. I am impressed that they even have the fortitude to reply to this thread publicly.

 

I am also incredibly impressed with what they HAVE accomplished this year. Yes I know I was one of the lucky ones who meshed well with Paula, and got my coin minted, but the people who have had good experiences with GeocoinDesign far outweigh the people with bad experiences.

 

They have had so much to put up with that many people dont know about, but they dont use that as an excuse. Paula has not apologised....but I do not think it is because she is not sorry. Please can we all give them a break now?

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For me, the issue is closed, and it is time for me to get over it. If a designer is having rough times, all that needs to be said was that they couldn't complete the project. Afterall, it is just a geocoin and other things like and health and family are definitly more important. I would have been totaly fine with being told it couldn't be completed and then could have moved on with another designer.

 

So many things we do on these forums rely on trust - you trust that when you send out a trade the other person will send theirs to you. When trust is broken, wounds happen, and if they are not treated, they fester and events like this thread happen.

 

I hope all involved can learn from this, I know I have.

 

Peace and cache on!

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Firstly..."Work that has been done..." should only need to be paid for if it is delivered. I don't care if someone has spent 1000 hours working on my design. If you deliver me NOTHING, then I should pay NOTHING.

 

I have to disagree. I'll use an off the wall example.

 

You are contracted and paid to pave 100 miles of road. Of said road you finish 99 miles, but that last mile you are frustrated and stress that you are behind schedule and leave the last mile unfinished.

 

So you are saying nothing should be paid? Like I said the example is totally different, but I think it illustrates the point. Sure there should be penalties and all that. Even pay the artist that finished the work. But if someone receives a design that is almost completed and just needs alittle tweaking here and there, I think something should still be paid. $5 is better than nothing.

 

That is my I suggest the agreement form. Something that sets a timeframe, but if timeframes are not adheard to there is a list of agreed upon penalties for each infraction. The up side could be a free coin or two as a bonus.

 

maldar

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