3 Benchmarks

[+Rapterror]

We spent two weeks camping, riding ATV's and geocaching in the Arapeen Trail system. Beautiful area if you get the chance check it out. While out riding and geocaching I found three benchmarks. I tried to search for them in the data base but was not able to find a record. I am looking for some help to log these finds. I have read the FAQ's. Included are the pics of the markers. I am not sure what types of markers they are since they do not say Benchmark on them. I have the coordinates and they are located in Sanpete County, Utah. Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

Found nearby the first one.

 

This one was found in a snow drift and the stem was bent over nearly 90 degrees.

 

[foxtrot_xray]

We spent two weeks camping, riding ATV's and geocaching in the Arapeen Trail system. Beautiful area if you get the chance check it out. While out riding and geocaching I found three benchmarks. I tried to search for them in the data base but was not able to find a record. I am looking for some help to log these finds. I have read the FAQ's. Included are the pics of the markers. I am not sure what types of markers they are since they do not say Benchmark on them. I have the coordinates and they are located in Sanpete County, Utah. Any help would be appreciated.

It's talked about in the FAQ, but the Benchmarks in GC.com are NGS benchmarks, to which those are not. Those are land plot surveys, I believe. Others here know more about those than I do. Essentially, those are sent by a diffenrent agency - General Land Survey.

[+Klemmer]

Hi Rapterror:

 

Welcome to benchmark hunting!

 

A quick & simple answer: The don't say benchmark on them because they are not benchmarks. They are all property line markers (Cadestral marks), as opposed to Geodetic marks (benchmarks or other related types). Not everything that size with writing on it is a benchmark. There are many thousands of marks like like those (and others) that are not in the database we use.

 

I'm sure you will get some more complete answers here soon. There is a slight chance that the marks you found ould be in the geocaching database (derived in 2000 from the National Geodetic Survey database). You can check here, by entering their approximate locations.

 

P.S. The third one is a bit difficult to read, but I think I see "GLO" on it, which I'm 95% sure makes it cadestral (property line) related.

 

Good luck!

 

P.P.S. FX - you type faster than I do!

Edited July 1, 2008 by Klemmer & TeddyBearMama

[+Rapterror]

Thanks for the quick replies. I was so excited when I found these so far up in the mountains. Check that altitude over 10,000 feet in the Manti LaSal National Forest along Skyline Drive. I'll keep looking for those benchmarks Thanks again guys.....

[+Rapterror]

Thanks for the quick replies. I was so excited when I found these so far up in the mountains. Check that altitude over 10,000 feet in the Manti LaSal National Forest along Skyline Drive. I'll keep looking for those benchmarks Thanks again guys.....

[+Rapterror]

Double tap sorry....

Edited July 1, 2008 by Rapterror

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

All three marks are cadastral marks, specifically Public Land Survey System (PLSS) corners. The first is a Closing Corner, commonly found on the north line of a township. They delineate the alignment of the north/south line between Sections in the Township to the south of the Township line. This one is for the common northerly corner between Sections 4 & 5, in Township 19 South, Range 4 East.

 

The second monument is a standard Section Corner on the same township line, however it delineates the Sections to the Township to the north. It is the common southerly corner between Sections 32 & 33, in Township 18 South, Range 4 East.

 

The third monument may be a Quarter Section Corner. It's difficult to tell by the picture.

 

These PLSS monuments are not benchmarks.

 

- Kewaneh

[southpawaz]

Here is an example DU1537 of a similar mark that has been incorporated into the NGS database, at a date some time later than it was originally set. I had it in mind because it's one of the first that I found, and the picture is the first one in my folder of benchmark photos so I see it all the time.

 

Edited July 1, 2008 by southpawaz

[foxtrot_xray]

P.P.S. FX - you type Faster than I do!

Heh! Han, I'm just more lazy at work.

[foxtrot_xray]

All three marks are cadastral marks, specifically Public Land Survey System (PLSS) corners. The first is a Closing Corner, commonly found on the north line of a township. They delineate the alignment of the north/south line between Sections in the Township to the south of the Township line. This one is for the common northerly corner between Sections 4 & 5, in Township 19 South, Range 4 East.

Okay, now that you explained that, let me ask - you know it's a "closing corner" due to the "CC" stamped on it. How do you know it's the one between Sec 4 & 5? Because the CC is over that line intersection? The second one makes sense because the line-intersection has a citcle around it, marking that one...

 

So the first one isbetween township 18S and 19S. Where does the "Range 4 East" come in? I see the R4E there, but how come there's nothing on the right side of the disk? "Range 3 East"? "Range 5 East"?

 

Cheers!

Mike.

[Bill93]

I lightened up the 3rd image and it clearly says that it is the quarter-section corner between sections 16 and 15 of some township.

 

The disks that say R4E don't mention R5E because the sections involved are all in range 4 east. There's a nominally 6-mile township in each range east and west, and also for the Txx number north or south. Each (regular) township is divided into 36 sections of nominally 1 mile each. The surveyor who marked the original corners traced out the square miles and also set the "quarter corners" at 1/2 mile points on the exterior of the section only.

 

A closing corner would be wherever they finished the south-to-north lines subdividing the township. The normal instructions for order of running lines would make that the north end of the township. These lines run up to a previously marked township line that forms the southern boundary of the township to the north. That township line has the "standard corners" marked on it already. Due to convergence of the meridians and accumulated measurement error, the closing corner will not coincide with the standard corner.

[Wintertime]

Rapterror, if you plot the coordinates for these marks on a topo map (a real USGS topo map, not the one in your spiffy new Colorado, sorry :-) ), they should fall on the red lines. Those red lines mark the PLSS boundaries. In fact, that corner marker at 32/33/5/4 should be right at the corner marked as "5466" on the map, with the San Pitch River running nearby.

 

Here's a good place to view topos with nearby benchmarks:

 

http://benchmarks.scaredycatfilms.com/UT.html

 

Type "Sanpete" in the search box, and it will get you to the right area. Then zoom in until you get to a scale where the PLSS section numbers are displayed.

 

Patty

[+Klemmer]

Are we good, or what? Talk about all the info at our fingertips......

[+Harry Dolphin]

Your Garmin Colorado tells you what temperature it is?!?

[Wintertime]

Are we good, or what?

 

We need a "fist punching the air" icon to indicate, "We rock!"

 

Talk about all the info at our fingertips......

Although, I just realized, not quite the right info...I was in the wrong township. I grabbed the first 32/33/5/4 corner I found in the Sanpete Valley, not noticing that the elevation on the Colorado was twice as high. Still, the basic directions are the same: find general area, find section numbers...just add "find correct township" between those other two steps. :-)

 

Patty

[+Rapterror]

Your Garmin Colorado tells you what temperature it is?!?

 

Yeah you can change both of those data fields to a multitude of different information readings depending on your needs. 43 in all. Some of them are battery level, Accuracy of GPS, glide ratio, cadence, bearing, speed, water temperature, time of day, time to destination, trip odometer yada yada.

[foxtrot_xray]

The disks that say R4E don't mention R5E because the sections involved are all in range 4 east. There's a nominally 6-mile township in each range east and west, and also for the Txx number north or south. Each (regular) township is divided into 36 sections of nominally 1 mile each. The surveyor who marked the original corners traced out the square miles and also set the "quarter corners" at 1/2 mile points on the exterior of the section only.

Ah! Okay, so even though the "R4E" is over there by that line, the whole 'map lines' on the disk are in R4E, even the end of the line on the right-side of the disk.

 

Yeah you can change both of those data fields to a multitude of different information readings depending on your needs. 43 in all. Some of them are battery level, Accuracy of GPS, glide ratio, cadence, bearing, speed, water temperature, time of day, time to destination, trip odometer yada yada.

Water temperature!? How many cylinders does that thing have? Is it DOHC? What gas mileage do you get?

 

A closing corner would be wherever they finished the south-to-north lines subdividing the township. The normal instructions for order of running lines would make that the north end of the township. These lines run up to a previously marked township line that forms the southern boundary of the township to the north. That township line has the "standard corners" marked on it already. Due to convergence of the meridians and accumulated measurement error, the closing corner will not coincide with the standard corner.

So if I understand right, the T18S section (north of the T19S section) would have closing corners on the north end of it? (Sorry if this is redundant.. Without having a map handy at work, I'm trying to visualize it in my head, and my head's just not that artistic. ) Edited July 2, 2008 by foxtrot_xray

[Wintertime]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but while I was, out of curiosity, trying to find the correct township for the marks that Rapterror found, I ran across a confusing issue with the USGS topo maps for this area. I discovered it while using the Scaredycat benchmark viewer, but I think the easiest way for you to see it is to do this:

 

1. Go to http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=KN0395 , then click on Terraserver in the map options. The default view is Aerial; click the tab for Topo. Note that at the default view, there's a prominent topo line of "2500" just above the labels for South Fork and Milky Falls.

 

2. Zoom in one level and notice the "3126" point near the right edge of the map. This is the actual location of KN0395 (triangulation station HOUGAARD). For some reason, the map doesn't center on the mark when you call up Terraserver from Geocaching.com. So click on the East arrow to move the map a bit. 3126 should now be close to the center of the map.

 

3. Zoom In once more. Notice that, hey, the numbers on the topo lines have changed considerably. Instead of being 2s and 3s, they're now 9s and 10s. HOUGAARD is hiding near the northeastern corner of this view, so click on the arrow in that corner to bring it down where you can see it better.

 

4. Notice that HOUGAARD's elevation is now given as 10256. What the heck happened to 3126?? Hmmm, I have a theory: yep, if I convert 3126 meters to feet, I get 10256.

 

My conclusion is obvious but confusing: Certain scales of the USGS topo maps in (this area of??) Utah were done in meters rather than feet. Did USGS go through a metric phase some years ago? I have never encountered this phenomenon in any of the California topos I've worked with. Maybe the rest of you already knew about this, but it's new to me!

 

Patty

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

 

4. Notice that HOUGAARD's elevation is now given as 10256. What the heck happened to 3126?? Hmmm, I have a theory: yep, if I convert 3126 meters to feet, I get 10256.

 

My conclusion is obvious but confusing: Certain scales of the USGS topo maps in (this area of??) Utah were done in meters rather than feet. Did USGS go through a metric phase some years ago? I have never encountered this phenomenon in any of the California topos I've worked with. Maybe the rest of you already knew about this, but it's new to me!

 

Patty

There are plenty of metric USGS maps all over the place in my area (the northeast). When you zoomed in you probably went from the 1:100,000 series to the 1:24,000 series. Most (not all) of the newer maps (done in the 90s), many of them 1:100,000 series, are metric.

 

Remember that metric is the "official" system in use in the US and the NGS has used it for over a century. It's just us civilians who are stuck with English measures.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Papa-Bear-NYC