The best caches not visited often.

[+BlazingOtters]

I have just noticed that some of my favourite caches have only been found a few times.

 

There are many excellent caches, with fantastic locations, containers, twists etc., that the placers must have spent ages planning and implementing yet they are hardly ever found.

I believe the problem is that the setter feels compelled to include a very hard puzzle that needs to be solved before the cache can be attempted.

The puzzle appears to act as a barrier to a lot of cachers.

 

To me this seems like a waste of time and effort by the cache setter to place a high quality/unique cache and to only have it found by a few people.

[+scottpa100]

I have to agree with you regarding the puzzle - I do enough puzzles and mental strain in work. I prefer the physical element or indeed the physical challenge of cache. Be it a long walk or something along the lines "OMG! The cache is there! Only 5 metres away but how do I reach it?" or "OMG! The cache is IN there?"

[+Wadders]

I agree with what you are saying Steve, I spent many months planning and implementing my own 5x5 cache.

It is a multi, but there is a puzzle to solve to start with, however if someone has tried to solve it but can't I am more than willing to give some pointers in the right direction.

 

As the cache setter, it gives me great pleasure to see positive comments about the cache, if the puzzle is a barrier, all they have to do is ask and i will help them on their way.....It's good to talk!!

 

Perhaps Exon quest part 2, won't have a puzzle

 

Wadders

[+The Blorenges]

Hmmmm.

 

I've been working on solving Wildcat over the last year or so. I think it qualifies as "a high quality/unique cache" ... Can't be sure, haven't done it all yet but we hope to complete it in the next few weeks as our 500th cache.

 

My feeling is simply that it's good to have to put some effort into attaining a goal sometimes. It gives a sense of achievement.

 

Sometimes you just want a decent "average" cache, but I love the fact that all around the country there are these challenging caches. As long as the cache owners are happy to have fewer "hits" during the year then I would never consider them to be "waste of time and effort" on their part.

 

MrsB

[+keehotee]

I have just noticed that some of my favourite caches have only been found a few times.

 

There are many excellent caches, with fantastic locations, containers, twists etc., that the placers must have spent ages planning and implementing yet they are hardly ever found.

I believe the problem is that the setter feels compelled to include a very hard puzzle that needs to be solved before the cache can be attempted.

The puzzle appears to act as a barrier to a lot of cachers.

 

To me this seems like a waste of time and effort by the cache setter to place a high quality/unique cache and to only have it found by a few people.

 

Sounds like you've got the bug Steve...

 

It's not just the tricky ones though - I put out a couple of traditional "almost" back to basics caches a couple of weeks ago - and they've had hardly any finds. I'm wondering if it's the walk that's putting people off?

Edited June 28, 2008 by keehotee

[+BlazingOtters]

if someone has tried to solve it but can't I am more than willing to give some pointers in the right direction.

Wadders

 

I think most setters would do the same, after all they want their caches found.

 

I met a cacher the other day who is not that new to caching but does not know any other cachers and wasn't happpy asking others for help. I think there may be a lot more people like this.

 

I on the other hand have no problem asking for help . If I can't solve a puzzle I prefer to be drip feed help and pointers rather than to be given the solution outright.

 

Your Exon Quest is an example of this - It is a brilliant cache one of the best i've done but it has only been found 15 times Is this because the puzzle is a barrier, or because people prefer a quick cache and dash?

[+BlazingOtters]

I have just noticed that some of my favourite caches have only been found a few times.

 

There are many excellent caches, with fantastic locations, containers, twists etc., that the placers must have spent ages planning and implementing yet they are hardly ever found.

I believe the problem is that the setter feels compelled to include a very hard puzzle that needs to be solved before the cache can be attempted.

The puzzle appears to act as a barrier to a lot of cachers.

 

To me this seems like a waste of time and effort by the cache setter to place a high quality/unique cache and to only have it found by a few people.

 

Sounds like you've got the bug Steve...

 

It's not just the tricky ones though - I put out a couple of traditional "almost" back to basics caches a couple of weeks ago - and they've had hardly any finds. I'm wondering if it's the walk that's putting people off?

 

I notice if I put out a cache in a great location that involves more than a few minutes walk, it gets a lot less visits then a cr*p micro in a layby. I know I haven't done your new two yet but it is not because of the walk but because I have them planned for an extended luchbreak and have been busy at work last few weeks .

 

I would rather spend a day getting a great cache then grab 50 poor ones.

 

By the way 'got the bug?' is easy.

[+Lost in Space]

 

I believe the problem is that the setter feels compelled to include a very hard puzzle that needs to be solved before the cache can be attempted.

The puzzle appears to act as a barrier to a lot of cachers.

 

 

Which is the cache setter's right. If HE or SHE is unhappy with the lack of "hits" they can change the puzzle. I see no difference to those caches placed up a mountainside or at the end of a 10 mile trek - Each to his own!

 

Neil

[+BlazingOtters]

 

I believe the problem is that the setter feels compelled to include a very hard puzzle that needs to be solved before the cache can be attempted.

The puzzle appears to act as a barrier to a lot of cachers.

 

 

Which is the cache setter's right. If HE or SHE is unhappy with the lack of "hits" they can change the puzzle. I see no difference to those caches placed up a mountainside or at the end of a 10 mile trek - Each to his own!

 

Neil

 

I was not saying it was anything wrong with having a hard puzzle, I was just observing that it is a shame these great caches are not reaching their full potential.

[+Crid]

I was not saying it was anything wrong with having a hard puzzle, I was just observing that it is a shame these great caches are not reaching their full potential.

I'm not sure that's necessarily a problem with the puzzle though. There are some great multis out there that don't get many visits either - presumably because they're too much work for some people. Why spend a couple of hours walking for a single multi when you can jump in the car and grab a handful of micros in the same amount of time?

 

(I don't agree with that attitude, by the way - just observing what appears to happen).

 

I've done a couple of 4-star puzzle caches around Surrey/West Sussex (quite a trek for me, given that I live in South East Kent) and I certainly thought they were worth the time and effort. It's the sense of satifaction. I think part of the appeal is the thrill of the chase, as it were.

Edited June 28, 2008 by Crid

[Alan White]

I suggest that the subtitle "Waste of a good cache" is an oxymoron. How can a good cache be a waste?

 

It's inevitable that the best caches will get fewer visits, because the best caches are those which require time and effort. I'm sure that the owners of the best caches didn't expect them to get as many visits as a nano on a street sign, but they do expect that the finders will receive more satisfaction.

[+Donmoore]

I would rather own a cache that is visted less and enjoyed more than visited more and enjoyed less.

 

I have one that does not get many visits as it is on an island which can only be got to by boat or when the tide is out. The cache when I placed it was full of good swap items and I only put good stuff in it because I know the likelyhood of it getting muggled are slim. That means also I can pin point who doesn't trade fairly to the detriment of their fellow cachers.

 

Its not about the numbers for me so I tend to take that view when placing my caches.

 

Edited due to poor spelling

Edited June 28, 2008 by Donmoore

[+Happy Humphrey]

A few of mine are rarely found, but I expected that when I set them up. I've also hidden a selection of easier and/or more accessible ones, and some that are inbetween. If a cache setter is disappointed that a difficult cache isn't being found very often, the best solution is to hide another that's likely to be less time-consuming. Then you get the best of both worlds.

[+scottpa100]

I would rather own a cache that is visted less and enjoyed more than visited more and enjoed less.

 

 

Eloquently put...

[+The Mad MG's]

I personally can see both sides of the coin, but then I'm new

We've just finished a hard Sudoku series, that I took great pleasure in, but can see why people overlook. It has to be one of my favouries along with a local Enigma series.

For me its more about where I go than what I do....if you see what I mean

[+melmur]

Personally, the reason I go caching is to have a nice walk somewhere that I would not have gone otherwise. That's why I don't care if when I get there, the cache is a micro, or in fact if I don't find it! It really doesn't matter to me. For that reason, I would probably not bother with a lengthy puzzle type cache.

[+Crid]

Personally, the reason I go caching is to have a nice walk somewhere that I would not have gone otherwise. That's why I don't care if when I get there, the cache is a micro, or in fact if I don't find it! It really doesn't matter to me. For that reason, I would probably not bother with a lengthy puzzle type cache.

And there's nothing wrong with that. I, personally, don't like micros. So I don't do many of them.

 

Horses for courses.

[+Lost in Space]

 

Horses for courses.

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, on this forum, there are many "horses" that when they find they are on the wrong "course" tend to neigh a lot.

[+CANTOR CLAN]

 

I believe the problem is that the setter feels compelled to include a very hard puzzle that needs to be solved before the cache can be attempted.

The puzzle appears to act as a barrier to a lot of cachers.

 

 

Which is the cache setter's right. If HE or SHE is unhappy with the lack of "hits" they can change the puzzle. I see no difference to those caches placed up a mountainside or at the end of a 10 mile trek - Each to his own!

 

Neil

 

I was not saying it was anything wrong with having a hard puzzle, I was just observing that it is a shame these great caches are not reaching their full potential.

 

As part owner of another 5/5 with a puzzle we are always happy to provide any help

There are many caches around at the moment which involves puzzles and I have`nt been able to do as I can`t solve them,

Michelle

[+stonefielders]

A few of mine are rarely found, but I expected that when I set them up. I've also hidden a selection of easier and/or more accessible ones, and some that are inbetween. If a cache setter is disappointed that a difficult cache isn't being found very often, the best solution is to hide another that's likely to be less time-consuming. Then you get the best of both worlds.

 

we went to the Isle of Man recently. Any cache on the map was fair game. It was good to get to Grimpen Mire which I really enjoyed.

I get a kick out of visiting caches which people rarely visit - proves its tricky, usually physically but also sometimes tricky to solve. Hardly the same when finding a roadside micro which everyone finds.

[+Bambography]

The puzzle appears to act as a barrier to a lot of cachers.

I'm in the middle of planning a cache that I hope will be Unique and very enjoyable. As a result of the planning and 'parts' to the cache I intend to create a puzzle to start the multi to do just that. If the puzzle stops large numbers visiting it then so be it. I'd much rather those that can be bothered get rewarded with (what I hope to be) a very enjoyable cache rather than everyone finding it. Large numbers of people will mean very regular maintenance visits and potential for problems (and i'm not saying any more than that for now).

[+martlakes]

Living in the Lakes I think we have a particular pattern to cache finding. A new one attracts all the local FTF hounds, then the less manic, relaxed finders! and then the rate of finds soon tails off. Once all the locals have been and found it, it's down to visitors and the occasional new cacher. Consequently, the finds tend to occur around holiday times. A regular crop of finds happens on the 'usual' more popular hills - a walk to find the cache isn't too much of a disincentive in the Lakes as that's usually why people visit, although you don't get loads. Low level ones in popular spots also do well.

 

Being mostly rural we have limited new cachers starting, and caches on less obvious hills tend to get ignored by visitors. So if it's in an out of the way spot the numbers drop off significantly by the second year. If there's a puzzle or it's a multi-cache involved, the numbers are into single figures by the second or third year.

 

This has happened to some of my caches. So I'm starting a process of archiving and doing new ones. I think it's good because the local cachers get to visit the area again, and I don't have loads of barely visited caches hanging around to maintain. The average lifespan for a cache is about two years/seasons and then it only gets a handful of visits a year, if that. I've realised that caches don't have to be for life!

 

Of course, if it's a cash & dash by a main road into the Lakes it'll get hundreds! (But many logs are very boring!)

 

I've recently done a series in Kendal. Four caches which give info for a fifth bonus multi. The nearest trad in the series to the multi has 24 visits, the mutli has 12. The multi is real easy and probably has been walked past but cos it's a multi visitors don't include it in their PQs. I think some people just dismiss caches cos of their type or size and basically cut off their own noses! Quite funny really.

 

So, sure, each to their own and all that, but it's interesting discovering the patterns and what works. I certainly agree that the less visited caches generally are more fun and have better swaps.

[+Snells Pace]

I 110% agree with you Steve (Blazing Otter).

 

There are a few great looking 5/5 in the Exeter area at the moment (mainly Tim's) that I haven't been able to solve.

My main problem is self inflicted. I have a 'code of conduct' that I won't ask for help, or even a PAF on site, as I feel that I've failed in some way and the cache setter has been too clever for me. When on the odd time that I do ring for help, I come away from the cache feeling that I've cheated.

It doesn't help that I do 99% of my caching solo.

[+Team Sieni]

I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, on this forum, there are many "horses" that when they find they are on the wrong "course" tend to neigh a lot.

High horses for high courses!

 

For some people, doing a puzzle is the main satisfaction for a cache, so take away the puzzle from the cache and its not reaching its "potential" for providing fun for the puzzlers. For others, the fun is in the swaps, or in the trackables. Others like a physical challenge like climbing a cliff or diving in a pond. Personally, I normally I plan my walk first and then see what caches there are to be found. My satisfaction is mainly in the walk - not bovvered if it's a micro or a suitcase as long as it can be swiftly found once at GZ.

 

Of course we all have our favourites. I think mine would be an ammo box with a wierd coin in it, or a TB on an unusual mission, cleverly hidden, but an easily find with the clue, found on a very long and fungus-filled autum trek through woods and moors, with a few obscure w**marks thrown in for luck , a nice packed lunch with a pork pie, maybe a visit to a nice pub and maybe a long train ride home to have a kip.

 

Now, if I can get all that from a cache (I'll bring my own pork pie!), but yet it's infrequently found, then it's fulfilled its potential for me!

 

All I need now is to stop having to work at weekends, and actually do some blimmin' cachin'

[ipplepen]

I own the other half of the 5/5 the Cantor Clan mentioned in their log - Ternary Tale. When the cache was planned we had a discussion about making it a worthy 5/5. The puzzle, simple once you know how, was put together to make a suitable 5/ hurdle to overcome before the cache can start. We wanted people who have found the cache to have the full satisfaction that they have completed a difficult task.

 

Both the Cantor's and I are willing to help you to get started - but the cache is meant to be the full 5/5 experience - DIFFICULT!

 

The fact that the Ternary Tale has only been found by a single group of determined cachers adds value to it's worth as a 5/5 cache. To be honest we were dissapointed that it was cracked and found so soon after being published!

 

I have generally found that if I want help with a puzzle, a few emails to the cache setter, past finders or 'clever' people get me on my way!

 

Save up for the fuel and give it a go!

 

I think there should be a special place kept in caching for the difficult 5/5 that leads you to that special caching experience!

Edited July 1, 2008 by ipplepen

[+purple_pineapple]

I suggest that the subtitle "Waste of a good cache" is an oxymoron. How can a good cache be a waste?

 

It's inevitable that the best caches will get fewer visits, because the best caches are those which require time and effort. I'm sure that the owners of the best caches didn't expect them to get as many visits as a nano on a street sign, but they do expect that the finders will receive more satisfaction.

 

I agree, although it does also frustrate me that my own best cache hasn't been visited since November. Alan, you've done my X Marks cache, so you'll know the one I mean - The church you need to visit first is (IMHO) one of the loveliest in the area, and the things you learn, (again, IMHO) are interesting to learn! I'd like to share this with as many cachers as possible, but I don't want to change my puzzle in any way!

 

Can't really have both options can I?!

 

Dave

[Alan White]

I agree, although it does also frustrate me that my own best cache hasn't been visited since November. Alan, you've done my X Marks cache, so you'll know the one I mean - The church you need to visit first is (IMHO) one of the loveliest in the area, and the things you learn, (again, IMHO) are interesting to learn!

As you know, we didn't visit the church, didn't solve the puzzle, and to this day have no idea how anyone is supposed to solve the puzzle. There's so little information on the cache page that it almost qualifies as a Terse puzzle. And the plaque often isn't accessible. All of which may explain why the cache doesn't get many visits .

 

I'd like to share this with as many cachers as possible, but I don't want to change my puzzle in any way!

Can't really have both options can I?!

No, and I don't think you're being truthful to yourself either . If you wanted to share the information, history, and location with as many cachers as possible then you'd place a multi starting at the plaque using the information on it to derive the cache coords. But it's a clever puzzle, and I can understand why you want to keep it. Just accept that it isn't going to be visited often, especially with the explosion of caches around here recently.

[+purple_pineapple]

I agree, although it does also frustrate me that my own best cache hasn't been visited since November. Alan, you've done my X Marks cache, so you'll know the one I mean - The church you need to visit first is (IMHO) one of the loveliest in the area, and the things you learn, (again, IMHO) are interesting to learn!

As you know, we didn't visit the church, didn't solve the puzzle, and to this day have no idea how anyone is supposed to solve the puzzle. There's so little information on the cache page that it almost qualifies as a Terse puzzle. And the plaque often isn't accessible. All of which may explain why the cache doesn't get many visits .

 

I'd like to share this with as many cachers as possible, but I don't want to change my puzzle in any way!

Can't really have both options can I?!

No, and I don't think you're being truthful to yourself either . If you wanted to share the information, history, and location with as many cachers as possible then you'd place a multi starting at the plaque using the information on it to derive the cache coords. But it's a clever puzzle, and I can understand why you want to keep it. Just accept that it isn't going to be visited often, especially with the explosion of caches around here recently.

 

Ah, I'd forgotten you were lucky enough to find the photo when it briefly existed! You certainly got off lightly!

I would honestly recommend a visit to the church when you get the chance (its supposed to be open more than it seems to be!).

 

As for the second point- you are of course correct, and all I can really do is encourage people to ask for help if they want it! I've already had two e-mails following my maintenance log this evening... !

[+steve_c]

...it does also frustrate me that my own best cache hasn't been visited since November...I'd like to share this with as many cachers as possible, but I don't want to change my puzzle in any way! ...

One idea I have toyed with is to post a couple of one line quotes, taken from some of the good logs on the cache, in the detailed description, once it is an establihsed cache. One I particularly like from one of mine in a remote location runs "This place absolutely deserves a cache..." I thought this might be an extra tempter. Not seen it done, but I don't see why not.

[Alan White]

Good idea. Dave could use this extract from our log:

we still have no idea how we're supposed to have solved this puzzle

That should encourage a few finders

[+purple_pineapple]

Good idea. Dave could use this extract from our log:

we still have no idea how we're supposed to have solved this puzzle

That should encourage a few finders

 

ha ha! I was thinking more of a quote from Brambler's log, or maybe Kewfriend's! It is indeed a good idea though!

[+Pharisee]

Good idea. Dave could use this extract from our log:

we still have no idea how we're supposed to have solved this puzzle

That should encourage a few finders

 

ha ha! I was thinking more of a quote from Brambler's log, or maybe Kewfriend's! It is indeed a good idea though!

Along similar lines... When I've had a cache camera processed, I use a short extract from a cachers log as the caption for their photgraph.... like this