Jump to content

FTF or Not?


Douglas_Clan

Recommended Posts

We have a new cache GC1DFP8 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...&Submit6=Go.

 

It clearly states the park closes at 10:00 pm. The listing was published after 10:00 pm. The FTF is at 11:40 pm, when the park is closed. Delete the FTF or not?

Technically speaking... the seeker assumes all responsibilities for seeking a cache, so breaking the park regulations is their responsibility not yours.

 

On the same vein, you didn't state you would delete logs if this was found after hours. If you did, it would still be a tough call because the seeker doesn't have to put down the time they found the cache.

Link to comment

We have a new cache GC1DFP8 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...&Submit6=Go.

 

It clearly states the park closes at 10:00 pm. The listing was published after 10:00 pm. The FTF is at 11:40 pm, when the park is closed. Delete the FTF or not?

IMO I would email the person and ask them to remove the statement that they were breaking the law when they found the cache. If they didn't I would delete it, but be fine with them relogging that they found it and were the FTF. I don't have a problem with the FTF no matter how it was found

 

You can't stop people from doing stupid things to get a cache.. I myself have been guilty of a lack of forsite a few times and I admit that, but I would not want a record of illegal activties on my cache page. Kinda hard to tell a land manager that we are good stewards when that is there.

 

All that said, be prepared to take a lot of heat over that descision. Some people can get irate when they are called out on there activities like that.

Link to comment

Were they FTF? YES.

 

Was the way they achieved that legal or moral? NO.

 

I would not delete their log but I would let them no that the indiscretion was not overlooked and ask them to edit the log and refrain from further activities in the future.

Link to comment

Is it possible this was a simple mistake and that they were not aware of the park hours until after the fact?

 

As a participant in FTF races, I would point out that when a cache publishes, in my haste, I might just grab the coordinates and head out the door without reading the description for a 2/1.5 cache in a small park. This would be particularly true if I am looking up the coordinates on my Blackberry. Enter the park from an area where the hours are not posted and you might never know you were not supposed to be there at that time.

 

Since FTF is nothing official and is really just bragging rights, I guess they would be FTF. I would just ask them to remove the reference to the time of the find from the log.

Link to comment

We have a new cache GC1DFP8 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...&Submit6=Go.

 

It clearly states the park closes at 10:00 pm. The listing was published after 10:00 pm. The FTF is at 11:40 pm, when the park is closed. Delete the FTF or not?

Technically speaking... the seeker assumes all responsibilities for seeking a cache, so breaking the park regulations is their responsibility not yours.

 

On the same vein, you didn't state you would delete logs if this was found after hours. If you did, it would still be a tough call because the seeker doesn't have to put down the time they found the cache.

What he said.

Link to comment

Is it possible this was a simple mistake and that they were not aware of the park hours until after the fact?

 

As a participant in FTF races, I would point out that when a cache publishes, in my haste, I might just grab the coordinates and head out the door without reading the description for a 2/1.5 cache in a small park. This would be particularly true if I am looking up the coordinates on my Blackberry. Enter the park from an area where the hours are not posted and you might never know you were not supposed to be there at that time.

 

Since FTF is nothing official and is really just bragging rights, I guess they would be FTF. I would just ask them to remove the reference to the time of the find from the log.

 

I don't know, just about every urban park I've run across runs down at sundown.

 

Jim

Link to comment

We have a new cache GC1DFP8 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...&Submit6=Go.

 

It clearly states the park closes at 10:00 pm. The listing was published after 10:00 pm. The FTF is at 11:40 pm, when the park is closed. Delete the FTF or not?

 

Nope.

 

Fact of the matter is, no one would know he did ANYTHING 'wrong' if he hadn't posted the time in his log (hey, and who knows if he's telling the truth.)

 

You didn't state you'd delete a cachers log if it was found during non-park hours but I would think that if it's important to you that people only log it during park hours:

 

You would state that you would delete their logs if they find the cache during non-biz hours (impossible to prove unless you get some dope in there writing down what time he found the cache... hm...)

 

and

 

You would take care to list the hours the park is open.

 

Like TotemLake said, it's the cacher's responsibility, not yours to make sure he's doing what the park says he can do. If anyone gets caught, the onus is on him because s/he's breaking the rules... they're not coming after you because he told them 'well, that evil Douglas Clan hid a cache in this park... it's their fault I'm here!"

 

The "FTF argument" in the logs is silly. I know, I know: I want to get the "I was standing on my head when I found the cache FTF"

 

Woo hoo!

 

 

 

michelle

Link to comment

We have a few FTFs and we have always enjoyed them. The FTF fun is in the little bit of "neener, neener" game that you can play. We have absolutely no idea how many times we have been FTF. The truly fun FTF for us is when it is a tough puzzle, multi or evil micro. There is a sense of accomplishment for being the first to overcome the challenge. Being FTF on a typical hide is fun but so is being 2nd, 5th or 100th. The order has no importance for us.

 

Ask them to edit the log and move on.

Link to comment

Geocachers need to adhere to a higher standard.

 

If a park has posted hours we need to obey those rules

 

If a park has signs saying to "Stay on the Trail" we need to obey those also.

 

He was FTF but he should change his log and learn from his mistake.

Link to comment

I went looking for the cache in question today, there is only one entrance into the park and it is fairly well labled as to park hours. To enter the park you must cross a bridge over train tracks and then go down stairs, no other entrance seen.

 

As a side the person in question.. I haave also met him. well the first impresion was anything but pleasent. He is getting a reputation for being a not so nice guy very quickly.

Link to comment
I went looking for the cache in question today, there is only one entrance into the park and it is fairly well labled as to park hours. To enter the park you must cross a bridge over train tracks and then go down stairs, no other entrance seen.

 

As a side the person in question.. I haave also met him. well the first impresion was anything but pleasent. He is getting a reputation for being a not so nice guy very quickly.

 

 

As another side, you're just saying that because he took a FTF out from under you :D

 

 

But seriously though, let's try to keep the thread on topic and adhere to the forum guidelines which state "Personal attacks and inflammatory behavior will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad. General attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated."

Link to comment

the main problem i have is if we have 20 people out looking in the park after hours and the rangers or whoever notices, then you run the risk of pissing someone off and not being aloud to place caches in park systems again. if i see a cache and it has time restrictions, i abide by them rules but that's just me. it's just with the way some people play the game that could ruin it for alot of other people. as for deleting the ftf ?? that's the owners call. i might just to make a stand

Link to comment

I'm going to put an asterisk by the cache name when I put new caches out:

 

"Ready Or Not's Cache*"

 

Cache description goes here

 

* your log will be deleted if any of the following are true:

1) Not following parks hours of use

2) Not following posted speed limits on the way to cache site

3) Not wearing seatbelt on the way to cache site

4) Backing into parking spot at park location (do a forum search on this one :D )

5) Yelling at wife prior to leaving for cache site

6) Spanking children at any time prior to leaving for cache site

7) Eating dinner with unacceptable levels of trans-fat prior to leaving for cache site

8) Having nicotine and/or alcohol in system during cache hunt

 

and the most important of all

 

9) Must not have placed a micro-cache or hunted a micro-cache within the past 7 days

 

Seriously though, lets all take responsibility for our own actions and not start policing and second-guessing what others are doing. I frequently seek caches in parks after-hours and its a gut call on my part as to whether its appropriate or acceptable or not. I don't need anyone making those decisions for me.

Link to comment

Seriously though, lets all take responsibility for our own actions and not start policing and second-guessing what others are doing.

 

If we don't police our community, then who does? The simple fact is, each and every one of us reflects on the whole community at large and how the community is perceived by the public. If we don't police ourselves, we'll slowly but surely find ourselves locked out of ever more parks and places.

 

I frequently seek caches in parks after-hours and its a gut call on my part as to whether its appropriate or acceptable or not.

 

That's just the thing - it's not a gut call on your part anymore than it is your gut call to do 100mph through a residential district just to grab a FTF.

Link to comment

That's just the thing - it's not a gut call on your part anymore than it is your gut call to do 100mph through a residential district just to grab a FTF.

 

There are laws in place to deal with people going 100mph through residential districts, just as there are laws in place to deal with people in parks past the posted times. Its not the job of the cache owner to enforce city/county/state/federal laws. There are some parks that I wouldn't dare go into after hours, because of the close proximity to houses. There are others where it doesn't really matter and the hours being posted are simply because that's what every other park in the city has posted.

 

What ever happened to common sense? If I feel comfortable being in a park after hours, I don't need "Joe Cache Cop" telling me I shouldn't be there.. If the city police feel its an issue, they can ask me to leave. Haven't had a problem yet. Seems the police understand the concept of discretion. They can also use their gut as opposed to applying blanket rules to every situation.

Edited by ReadyOrNot
Link to comment

That's just the thing - it's not a gut call on your part anymore than it is your gut call to do 100mph through a residential district just to grab a FTF.

 

There are laws in place to deal with people going 100mph through residential districts, just as there are laws in place to deal with people in parks past the posted times. Its not the job of the cache owner to enforce city/county/state/federal laws. There are some parks that I wouldn't dare go into after hours, because of the close proximity to houses. There are others where it doesn't really matter and the hours being posted are simply because that's what every other park in the city has posted.

 

Parks don't have closing hours just because houses are in proximity.

 

What ever happened to common sense?

 

If common sense was still around - we wouldn't be having this discussion, because people wouldn't be breaking the law and then constructing elaborate justifications merely because they find the law inconvenient.

Link to comment

That's just the thing - it's not a gut call on your part anymore than it is your gut call to do 100mph through a residential district just to grab a FTF.

 

There are laws in place to deal with people going 100mph through residential districts, just as there are laws in place to deal with people in parks past the posted times. Its not the job of the cache owner to enforce city/county/state/federal laws. There are some parks that I wouldn't dare go into after hours, because of the close proximity to houses. There are others where it doesn't really matter and the hours being posted are simply because that's what every other park in the city has posted.

 

What ever happened to common sense? If I feel comfortable being in a park after hours, I don't need "Joe Cache Cop" telling me I shouldn't be there.. If the city police feel its an issue, they can ask me to leave. Haven't had a problem yet. Seems the police understand the concept of discretion. They can also use their gut as opposed to applying blanket rules to every situation.

And those same laws could be applied to the entire caching community if people like you publicize their actions i.e. listing the off-hours find time in the log. They could ban caching from their parks. I'm not saying you shouldn't/can't be in some parks after hours, just don't publicize it online. Remember some park systems do set policy on the image we project - remember the long ban of caches in National Parks (due to the preceived "buried" cache image).

Link to comment

That's just the thing - it's not a gut call on your part anymore than it is your gut call to do 100mph through a residential district just to grab a FTF.

 

There are laws in place to deal with people going 100mph through residential districts, just as there are laws in place to deal with people in parks past the posted times. Its not the job of the cache owner to enforce city/county/state/federal laws. There are some parks that I wouldn't dare go into after hours, because of the close proximity to houses. There are others where it doesn't really matter and the hours being posted are simply because that's what every other park in the city has posted.

 

What ever happened to common sense? If I feel comfortable being in a park after hours, I don't need "Joe Cache Cop" telling me I shouldn't be there.. If the city police feel its an issue, they can ask me to leave. Haven't had a problem yet. Seems the police understand the concept of discretion. They can also use their gut as opposed to applying blanket rules to every situation.

And those same laws could be applied to the entire caching community if people like you publicize their actions i.e. listing the off-hours find time in the log. They could ban caching from their parks. I'm not saying you shouldn't/can't be in some parks after hours, just don't publicize it online. Remember some park systems do set policy on the image we project - remember the long ban of caches in National Parks (due to the preceived "buried" cache image).

 

"People like me"... What are you talking about? I said I cache at night, I never said I publicize it in my logs. If perception is everything, you better stop caching altogether then. Its possible someone could perceive you as being a drug dealer and we wouldn't want people "Perceiving" that. What ever happened to reality folks? If I'm not a drug dealer and someone perceives me as being one, they can take a short walk off a long pier.

Link to comment

He should change his log to remove the time, He should not of gone after it until the park was open but if he had waited then another cacher would have gone in anyway There are many cachers that cry ethics about how others cache and then run into closed parks to get FTF's go figure. To be perfectly clear I am not implying the thread starter, it is a general statement on a few of the many cachers I have met and my overall disdain as of late. I wish I could attend more of the HOTM's that was one of the best cache experiences along with hiking to the loch katrinecache.

Link to comment

Parks don't have closing hours just because houses are in proximity.

 

If common sense was still around - we wouldn't be having this discussion, because people wouldn't be breaking the law and then constructing elaborate justifications merely because they find the law inconvenient.

 

That's on the verge of a personal insult Elde. I imagine if I took a look at your life, I'd find that you follow every rule that's on the books, right? You don't use any discretion whatsoever? You must be that guy that sits in the fast lane going 55mph because you've got something to prove? Or the guy that is going 55mph when all the traffic around you is going 75 (for those that have driven in California)...

 

I'm not saying all parks are free-game all the time... I'm saying use common sense and discretion. Some parks are not a good idea, even during daylight hours. Some parks have posted closing hours of 7pm, regardless of the seasons. I wouldn't even hesitate to go into that park at 8pm in the middle of Summer. Would you? Maybe you should get off your high horse.

Link to comment

He should change his log to remove the time, He should not of gone after it until the park was open but if he had waited then another cacher would have gone in anyway There are many cachers that cry ethics about how others cache and then run into closed parks to get FTF's go figure. To be perfectly clear I am not implying the thread starter, it is a general statement on a few of the many cachers I have met and my overall disdain as of late. I wish I could attend more of the HOTM's that was one of the best cache experiences along with hiking to the loch katrinecache.

 

So you are in the "Everyone plays their own way" unless I happen to disagree with how they play camp? At least be consistent with your inconsistencies.

Link to comment

State laws on parks should dictate the issue of play the way you want. there are parks that do not allow caching any more. be a good steward of the resources so they do not go away. Your earlier example of speed limits was pathetic, you are trying to mix apples with oranges.The camp I keep is my own don't try to lump me with apples or oranges when I am clearly a pear ;)

Link to comment

I think it's time for a few people in this thread to keep their thoughts on this subject to themselves for a while. It's starting to sound like a General forum thread and not one of our generally friendly NW forum threads.

 

I'll leave this one open for now, unless the OP asks me to close it. But keep it civil, keep it on topic and be polite or I will have to close it.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...