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embra

Delorme PN-40

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I've been following this thread fairly closely, but I haven't seen one question yet. Does the PN-40 read negative elevation? That is, if I reach the very bottom of Death Valley, will it read at or near -282 feet below sea level?

Let me toss out some speculative conjecture here.

 

Doesn't it always seem that when a manufacturer introduces an new, upscale model of an existing product that none of the features of the previous go away?

For example, my 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee has added Sirius Satellite radio while the OTA AM\FM capability has been retained.

Similarly, Chip has announced the addition of a barometric altimeter in the PN-40 and I would expect that the PN-20 GPS derived altitude data to be retained.

 

Now, which, if not both, will provide values when the values determined are less than 0', or below Sea Level?

Both would not surprise me, but I certainly expect the GPS derived to display negatives, when calculated.

My expectation is based on observations taken with my PN-20 over a period of several days.

I live essentially at Sea Level and 40 readings gave me an average elevation of 7' and a standard deviation of ±21' with 14 of the 40 values being negative.

So yes, although I haven't performed this data gathering at Badwater, I would expect all values to be negative at the bottom.

Projecting to the PN-40, I would expect that to remain unchanged as I imagine that DeLorme is totally involved with perfecting new features at the expense of tweaking old features that are not broken.

 

Regarding the new barometric altimeter, pure conjectural speculation on my part would be that it would operated similarly. If they do not reset all GPS derived negative values to zero (or, *******?), I expect the same for the barometric.

 

Universally, this is true. The standard atmospheric pressure at Sea Level is 29.92inHg and I've never heard of a barometer that chops off readings lower than that.

Unfortunately, not all GPS units with barometric sensors will give you a negative elevation reading in the field. This has to be derived on the mapping software. The Meridian Platinum for instance is one such GPS. There are some GPS units without barometric sensors that will give a negative elevation in the field. So to answer your question:

Doesn't it always seem that when a manufacturer introduces an new, upscale model of an existing product that none of the features of the previous go away?

No. Garmin and Magellan are prime examples for so many reasons.

 

What you, the PN-40 marketing announcement, the forums, the PN-20 specs, or the PN-20 manual haven't made clear is whether this reading is on the GPS or derived on the mapping software. I don't plan on carrying a laptop with me into the wilderness. My backpack is plenty heavy enough.

 

Unfortunately speculating is making assumptions which can be misinformative. I'm asking these specific questions because my Platinum is nearing the end of its trusted service with the abuse I've given it after 5 1/2 trusted years which is already 6 months beyond what I expected to use it. My next GPS will be expected to last as long and provide as reliable service or it is of no use to me. I am not in the position to make a purchase and go oops and buy something else.

 

I enjoy using the Delorme maps and have compared them against the usability of the NG maps. I use the 3-D TopQuad exclusively to plan my hike of the month. The marriage of the GPS is a bonus but what held me off was the speed of the PN-20 complaints when compared to my current GPS. This has been addressed and from the responses I received here and in a PM set me at ease about heavy forest usage.

 

I'd like to think this is a fair question and a feature that hasn't been taken seriously when developing current models. As I have read from Chip's other responses, apparently if it isn't asked for, it isn't considered.

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What you, the PN-40 marketing announcement, the forums, the PN-20 specs, or the PN-20 manual haven't made clear is whether this reading is on the GPS or derived on the mapping software. I don't plan on carrying a laptop with me into the wilderness. My backpack is plenty heavy enough.

 

I enjoy using the Delorme maps and have compared them against the usability of the NG maps. I use the 3-D TopQuad exclusively to plan my hike of the month. The marriage of the GPS is a bonus but what held me off was the speed of the PN-20 complaints when compared to my current GPS. This has been addressed and from the responses I received here and in a PM set me at ease about heavy forest usage.

 

I'd like to think this is a fair question and a feature that hasn't been taken seriously when developing current models. As I have read from Chip's other responses, apparently if it isn't asked for, it isn't considered.

I spoke with one of our engineers this afternoon and he confirmed that, while neither of us have been to Death Valley to test negative elevation, there is nothing done to suppress this information from being displayed. Combining this with CowboySlim's feedback that he's confirmed negative elevations with the PN-20, and I'm feeling pretty good about what you will see with the PN-40.

 

I don't have access to an area with elevations below sea level and am sure that manually calibrating the barometric altimeter to report a negative elevation won't be accepted as confirmation... I'll pass this thread to our PN-40 beta testing group and see if they can return the desired results.

 

Thank you for the post; it will be a fun challenge for them!

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

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You're making me want this gadget more and more. :laughing: Thanks for the response!

 

And the wait will be two months less than Christmas! :D

 

AKA "CowboySlim" on DeLorme and other forums.

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I don't have access to an area with elevations below sea level and am sure that manually calibrating the barometric altimeter to report a negative elevation won't be accepted as confirmation... I'll pass this thread to our PN-40 beta testing group and see if they can return the desired results.

 

Thank you for the post; it will be a fun challenge for them!

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

 

I think the above test is valid. Either way, you guys are in Yarmouth, ME near the ocean. Just head down to the ocean at low tide and take a reading. The low tide line should be below MSL.

 

GO$Rs

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Or stick it in an sealed enclosure with a clear front, and hook it up to the exhaust tube of your Electrolux!

That would be . . . an PN-40, I don't think the 20 does baro..

 

Norm

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Well if Delorme sends me one I'll be happy to drive to Badwater (-282) in Death Valley and give everyone a full report. :cry:

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One potential achilles heel of the PN-40 could be battery life. With a much faster processor it could be a total hog. Now I know that what is considered good battery life varies between individuals and could be overcome by carrying spares. But I have heard not a peep in the Delorme forums or this forum discussing battery life and it concerns me. I'm curious, with backlight off and 2700mah NIMH rechargables, how long will the unit stay on?

 

My personal scale of battery life goes like this: Great = >12, Good = 10-11, Fair = 7-9, Poor = <7

(I know it drops off rather fast below 12 hours but a full day out hunting or in the field is usually about 12 hours.)

Chip, what's the word?

Edited by yogazoo

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I've been getting 11-12 hours out of my PN-20 with regular duracell alkaline AA's. I get about the same with my rechargeables (they are old though, 1850mah NIMH models). I would guess the PN-40 with the dual processors and compass would get around 9-10 hours. I will be one putting off the PN-40 purchase till this time next year as I love my PN-20 and the speed problem hasn't been a big issue for me. Can't wait to see some battery tests though.

Edited by peto_geo

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My personal scale of battery life goes like this: Great = >12, Good = 10-11, Fair = 7-9, Poor = <7

(I know it drops off rather fast below 12 hours but a full day out hunting or in the field is usually about 12 hours.)

 

So you believe a Colorado has great battery life then and an Oregon poor?? ;)

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One potential achilles heel of the PN-40 could be battery life. With a much faster processor it could be a total hog. Now I know that what is considered good battery life varies between individuals and could be overcome by carrying spares. But I have heard not a peep in the Delorme forums or this forum discussing battery life and it concerns me. I'm curious, with backlight off and 2700mah NIMH rechargables, how long will the unit stay on?

 

My personal scale of battery life goes like this: Great = >12, Good = 10-11, Fair = 7-9, Poor = <7

(I know it drops off rather fast below 12 hours but a full day out hunting or in the field is usually about 12 hours.)

Chip, what's the word?

I've been using our Li-Ion rechargeable battery during the beta... it allows the device to float and I sometimes end up in the water whether rafting or kayaking. We're targeting PN-20 performance with the PN-40... the new device does have a more powerful dual processor and three sensors but we've worked hard to improve other areas during the development cycle. I don't have official numbers for all the battery types and know that the Li-Ion is actually the lowest performer out of the four types we support... the price for being rechargeable. Your 12 hour expectation for a full day out hunting will require alkalines and I'm guessing the use of Power Saving mode. If I'm logging something important and don't want to risk missing some of the track I use the Energizer e2 Lithiums, we were seeing performance in the 14 hour range with the PN-20. I'm expecting to be back in that ball park when they finish the power curve analysis for that battery type. The device floats with the e2 Lithium batteries too! Personally, I always carry a spare set of batteries regardless... they fit in my GPS carry case and they put my mind at ease. Look for more official numbers on our website or forum when the specs get posted. Thanks for the question!

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

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Thanks Chip! I'm eagerly awaiting October 15th.

Edited by yogazoo

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Does this device have similar support for logging features as the Garmin 60CSx, specifically I am interested in being able to record an activity log while on hikes.

 

Could any of you comment on the PN-40's logging capabilities.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

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. . . support for logging features as the Garmin 60CSx,
Your 60CSx will record an activity log, how??? Perhaps you mean a tracklog, pretty much a standard GPS feature. Edited by MtnHermit

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Sorry I meant track log. I do not own a GPS device so I have no idea what features are deemed standard.

 

In terms of "tracklog" capabilities, is there any limit on the number of track points that can be saved with the PN-40? Also, how often are the track points archived to file? Are these points saved to internal memory or can they be saved to an SD card?

 

. . . support for logging features as the Garmin 60CSx,
Your 60CSx will record an activity log, how??? Perhaps you mean a tracklog, pretty much a standard GPS feature.

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I answered most of your questions in the other thread (as they apply to the PN-20; I'm working on the presumption that the PN-40 will do the same on these features).

 

I can add to that, though, that the PN-20 only saves tracks to internal memory. The ability to save waypoint files, tracks, and routes to SD card is on their list for development, but is not yet implemented.

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I can only respond to that which the DeLorme PN-20 is capable:

10 tracks of 10,000 points or less, stored at 1 sec or greater intervals internally.

User may select intervals of time (1 sec or greater) or distance (10 feet or greater) but the distance selection will not store more frequently than 1 sec each.

Each point has lat, lon, elevation and time.

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For the trifecta (sp?). Max and Stu pretty much summed it up. I wish we could store more than 10 tracks but it just hasn't happened yet. The tracking on the 20 works very well. I have done a lot of tracking mountain bike trails and hiking trails with no issues.

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Operationally, the 10 limitation doesn't bother me. Anything that is worthwhile is downloaded to my PC via T7 for long term retention. I use a utility like Acronis True image nightly to then back up all my new and changed files. Consequently, I can easily and quickly deleted them from my PN-20. Also, the can be just as easily restored from Topo 7 if they are needed on the handheld again.

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Oh yeah, what I love is to go up in the mountains or the desert and record the track as I go. Then at home overlay it on the maps using Topo 7 to see how it lines up with the roads and trails there. Then I superimpose the track on those Color Aerials that I've downloaded from DeLorme with my $100 coupon and see how they match up to the trails on those photo images. It is amazing to see how well they line up.

 

But, I think that you've put some similar above.

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Oh yeah, what I love is to go up in the mountains or the desert and record the track as I go. Then at home overlay it on the maps using Topo 7 to see how it lines up with the roads and trails there. Then I superimpose the track on those Color Aerials that I've downloaded from DeLorme with my $100 coupon and see how they match up to the trails on those photo images. It is amazing to see how well they line up.

 

But, I think that you've put some similar above.

 

Sounds good, perhaps Chip could chime in to tell us if recording to an SD card is on the road map.

 

Not trying to start any flame wars, but could any of you give me some reasons as to why a new user who has never used a GPS device should choose a PN-40 over 60CSx?

Edited by davewolfs

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Not trying to start any flame wars, but could any of you give me some reasons as to why a new user who has never used a GPS device should choose a PN-40 over 60CSx?

Well, seeing that the 40 is not out yet it is hard to tell. What you can do is look at the specs of the 40 and compare them to the 60csx, wait for the 40 to actually hit the shelves and see for yourself or just wait for user reports after it is in peoples hands :anibad:

 

There are a lot of posts here if you want to look around some.

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Not trying to start any flame wars, but could any of you give me some reasons as to why a new user who has never used a GPS device should choose a PN-40 over 60CSx?

Ok, let me try this, but with respect to the PN-20.

I'm a back country, 4WD exploring type, mostly in the desert southwest. I've been doing this since before even the first handheld GPS units became available. So, we were into maps and the best maps obtainable. Some of my friends got the first GPS units, but I was not impressed. I still relied on maps. So when DeLorme, whose paper Gazzetter maps we had been using all along as they were the best maps, came out with a handheld, it was a no-brainer. I was not going to go to second rate maps, if that was what a handheld had in store for me. When I could get first rate maps on a handheld, I was in the handheld game.

 

Now, if you accept that which Embra, Max and I say regarding the PN-20 as accurate and that Chip is not overselling the difference between the 20 and 40, then you have a good projection of what the 40 will be.

Edited by Team CowboyPapa

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Operationally, the 10 limitation doesn't bother me. Anything that is worthwhile is downloaded to my PC via T7 for long term retention. I use a utility like Acronis True image nightly to then back up all my new and changed files. Consequently, I can easily and quickly deleted them from my PN-20. Also, the can be just as easily restored from Topo 7 if they are needed on the handheld again.

Operationally, I would agree with your contention 10 track logs is plenty.

 

In 2 years, I'm hoping to be on a multi-day hike where a laptop would be very inconvenient weight wise. 10 track logs could be a problem.

 

(Hmmmm perhaps a good argument for an OQO.) :unsure:

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When adding notes are these saved and downloaded with the track?

 

Operationally, the 10 limitation doesn't bother me. Anything that is worthwhile is downloaded to my PC via T7 for long term retention. I use a utility like Acronis True image nightly to then back up all my new and changed files. Consequently, I can easily and quickly deleted them from my PN-20. Also, the can be just as easily restored from Topo 7 if they are needed on the handheld again.

Operationally, I would agree with your contention 10 track logs is plenty.

 

In 2 years, I'm hoping to be on a multi-day hike where a laptop would be very inconvenient weight wise. 10 track logs could be a problem.

 

(Hmmmm perhaps a good argument for an OQO.) :unsure:

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While you can name the track whatever you want when saving it to internal memory, there are no capabilities for notes associated with tracks. Is this something that other GPS models can do? I don't recall being able to do anything like that with the Magellans that I used to use.

 

BTW, several of us have been participating in the PN-40 beta, but have been unable to directly comment about it because of the non-disclosure agreement we all signed. Delorme has loosened the restrictions so we can now acknowledge our participation and respond a little more directly about PN-40 questions.

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In 2 years, I'm hoping to be on a multi-day hike where a laptop would be very inconvenient weight wise. 10 track logs could be a problem.

 

Saving to SD card (or and OQO...you made me look that up!) is clearly the preferable solution, and I'll confess to disappointment if they haven't given us that capability by then. However, I would note that 100,000 trackpoints would give you 18,920 miles of tracks at 999 foot intervals, or more than 3 1/2 months of continuous recording at 99 second intervals. Granted, those would be some rather thinly populated tracks, but there is some good room to tailor a scale that would accommodate your expedition.

 

I hope my math was right on those :unsure:

 

A nice feature that could help here, too, would be the automatic track recording option that our Meridians have. It's been requested...

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In 2 years, I'm hoping to be on a multi-day hike where a laptop would be very inconvenient weight wise. 10 track logs could be a problem.

 

Saving to SD card (or and OQO...you made me look that up!) is clearly the preferable solution, and I'll confess to disappointment if they haven't given us that capability by then. However, I would note that 100,000 trackpoints would give you 18,920 miles of tracks at 999 foot intervals, or more than 3 1/2 months of continuous recording at 99 second intervals. Granted, those would be some rather thinly populated tracks, but there is some good room to tailor a scale that would accommodate your expedition.

 

I hope my math was right on those ;)

 

A nice feature that could help here, too, would be the automatic track recording option that our Meridians have. It's been requested...

I like saving excursions as separate legs which means mulitple hike tracks. Granted, on a multi-day hike I'll likely be resting after a 10-15 mile hike with no desire to move further than I have to for the remainder of my waking minutes after dinner, but it's been a nice feature of the MeriPlat to be able to do save to the SD card.

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Saving to SD card (or and OQO...you made me look that up!) is clearly the preferable solution, and I'll confess to disappointment if they haven't given us that capability by then. However, I would note that 100,000 trackpoints would give you 18,920 miles of tracks at 999 foot intervals, or more than 3 1/2 months of continuous recording at 99 second intervals. Granted, those would be some rather thinly populated tracks, but there is some good room to tailor a scale that would accommodate your expedition.

 

I hope my math was right on those ;)

 

A nice feature that could help here, too, would be the automatic track recording option that our Meridians have. It's been requested...

One of the really nice things about saving to the card a la the 60CSx approach is the ability to not have to worry about managing tracks during extended trips. I routinely let my 60CSx log at a 1 sscond rate, and then every month or so when I think about it download the accumulated files to my computer. That way, I can go back to any day and time if I later find a need to, without worrying about doing something about it at the time I'm recording it. It would really be nice to have this kind of capability on the PN-40, and should be easy to implement, and from what I can see would be one of the features I would really miss on the PN-40 if they can't provide it.

 

I agree that automatic intervals would also be a good feature, although less easy to implement (at least something akin to the Garmin algorithm - they've done an excelent job there). Although as I indicated above my prefered method is the brute force 1 second interval, most people using Garmins by far prefer the automatic approach.

Edited by Hertzog

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One of the really nice things about saving to the card a la the 60CSx approach is the ability to not have to worry about managing tracks during extended trips. I routinely let my 60CSx log at a 1 sscond rate, and then every month or so when I think about it download the accumulated files to my computer. That way, I can go back to any day and time if I later find a need to, without worrying about doing something about it at the time I'm recording it. It would really be nice to have this kind of capability on the PN-40, and should be easy to implement, and from what I can see would be one of the features I would really miss on the PN-40 if they can't provide it.

Just to be sure I understand, are you saying that because you can save to card that you have a great capacity for recording tracks? It sounds like aside from the card-writing capability, the two models can deal with tracks in a similar manner.

 

Since I and several others had requested card-writing capabilities in the PN-20 some time ago, Delorme's failure to this point in time to implement the feature had started me wondering if the capability wasn't possible with the existing hardware. Chip did acknowledge not too long ago it was on the list, and it isn't like they've been sitting on their thumbs regarding relatively frequent firmware upgrades with additional features. I'm now comfortable enough that it's an ongoing matter of prioritizing for them, so I'm happy for additional voices to move it closer to the top of the list.

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Since I and several others had requested card-writing capabilities in the PN-20 some time ago, Delorme's failure to this point in time to implement the feature had started me wondering if the capability wasn't possible with the existing hardware. Chip did acknowledge not too long ago it was on the list, and it isn't like they've been sitting on their thumbs regarding relatively frequent firmware upgrades with additional features. I'm now comfortable enough that it's an ongoing matter of prioritizing for them, so I'm happy for additional voices to move it closer to the top of the list.

When DeLorme comes out with a software upgrade for the PN-20/40 does it send it out first to its numerous beta testers like yourself or is it soley in-house? The reason I ask is that Garmin continues to puzzle me in that they recently released a software update for the Oregon that although it was to address and fix certain problems introduced at least one new problem that I would have thought would have been obvious to see even by in-house beta testing--the barometer doesn't work. It also doesn't appear to have fixed the memory full issues--but I'm not certain of this. This leaves me feeling that Garmin hasn't learned anything at all in the last several weeks.

Edited by Ratsneve

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When DeLorme comes out with a software upgrade for the PN-20/40 does it send it out first to its numerous beta testers like yourself or is it soley in-house?

Currently, FW updates to the PN-40 go only to the Beta testers as they are sole user community at this time.

 

The policy with the PN-20, after its release to the public at the retail level, was to issue the FW updates to the total user community via the DeLorme website, more specifically, the user forum. I'm not sure which letter comes after Beta in the Greek alphabet, but after that, everybody was in that process. Delta testing? :ph34r:

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Just to be sure I understand, are you saying that because you can save to card that you have a great capacity for recording tracks? It sounds like aside from the card-writing capability, the two models can deal with tracks in a similar manner.

When set to do so the 60CSx writes the same data it is saving in its active track file to a gpx file on the card, except that you are limited to one active track of 10,000 points internally whereas the gpx file on the card continues to grow (one file per day). The gpx file is essentially a text file, so can be very big; if you log 24/7 at a 1 second rate then you would end up with about a 9.7 MB file per day (I actually have two of those, obviously not typical field use). I have a 2GB card installed, loaded 90% with maps, so I have about 200MB available for track files. Checking my most recent use, today I had all files back to June 20 still on the GPSr, taking only 15MB of space. This is actually relatively light use for me; a more intensive use was when I was on an extended road trip in April 2007, with about 45MB of data. The 60CSx can take a 4GB card, so if I anticipated somehow needing more track storage capability I could simply use a larger card (but don't anticipate that need). It sounds to me like the internal tracks of the PN-40 and 60CSx are similar, except that the 60CSx can have only one 10,000 point file whereas the PN-40 can have several.

 

Sorry I didn't chime in on this when Chip originally described the PN-40 capabilities; I thought about it at the time, but just didn't get around to it. I think this kind of capability on the PN-40 would be very useful.

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It sounds to me like the internal tracks of the PN-40 and 60CSx are similar, except that the 60CSx can have only one 10,000 point file whereas the PN-40 can have several.

 

Yes, the PN-20 and PN-40 can have 10 tracks with up 10,000 points each.

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Ratsneve, other than Geocaching and finding stuff in strange cities, what other uses do you have for a GPS'r? Just curious.

Either on a bus tour or driving myself someone or I might wonder what the name of a river is or a near or far distant mountain or how far away a stop is. I also enjoyed the discovery of the feet/min ascent and decent and the elevation contour chart. I was excited for the moment when I discovered that the compass could function like an aircraft VOR showing deviation off course. I have done amateur astronomy in the past and someone might ask me when the next new moon was so we could plan to go out viewing or I might visit some beach and wonder when low tide was. Those were neat features the Colorado has but I'm not certain where I stand with either on the Oregon now, let alone the PN-40. Who knows when I might have discovered that the barometer of my Colorado couldn't record data when turned off until someone posted that it was broken. A GPSr is a big toy that never works right in all respects that I don't have to own for work or pleasure if I have a good road or park map--which I have never been without. I think ever since I got my first Apple "][" technical support has driven me crazy--always. :ph34r:

Edited by Ratsneve

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When DeLorme comes out with a software upgrade for the PN-20/40 does it send it out first to its numerous beta testers like yourself or is it soley in-house?

Currently, FW updates to the PN-40 go only to the Beta testers as they are sole user community at this time.

 

The policy with the PN-20, after its release to the public at the retail level, was to issue the FW updates to the total user community via the DeLorme website, more specifically, the user forum. I'm not sure which letter comes after Beta in the Greek alphabet, but after that, everybody was in that process. Delta testing? :ph34r:

A minor clarification... we do a lot of internal testing with firmware updates before we release anything to the public, even the beta releases. We had lots of requests for faster updates and decided a beta release with disclosure helped those looking to stay on the bleeding edge while allowing others to wait for the beta label to be removed. It also allows QA to increase testing from the relatively low volume of internal testers to the much larger volume of active users that frequent our forum.delorme.com site.

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

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The above is consistent with my observations. The PN-20 FW updates were well prepared and verified when released. The overwhelming majority of user comments following each update consisted of concurrance that the update enhanced functionality and operability. Additionally, they populated a wish list of what the community would like to see in the next FW update.

Edited by Team CowboyPapa

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I'm glad to hear that, in a perverse way. I just tried to get in and could only get the message that I had been banned. A little freaky, that. I have enough computers in the house to try one where I know I have no cookies, so I now don't take the message personally. It would appear that someone hacked the boards.

 

Edit: I found an email from Chip, so I sent him a heads-up. I went to delorme.com to see if I could find a webmaster address, and I see that they have that site down for maintenance, so perhaps there is a connection. Their interim page does proclaim the forums operational, so there's a disconnect somewhere.

 

Edit again: now they just have a maintenance post up on the forum site, too.

Edited by embra

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Thats what I found as well.

 

We apologize for the inconvenience.

Delorme.com is currently offline for scheduled maintenance.

To order by phone, or speak with a Customer Service Representative, please call 1.800.561.5105, Mon-Fri 8am-8pm EST, Sat 9:30am-6:00pm EST.

We'll be happy to answer your product questions and take your order.

The DeLorme Community Forums, however, are online and operational.

They provide open discussion among dedicated customers about all the software and GPS products DeLorme sells, including the Earthmate PN-20 Handheld GPS.

DeLorme Community Forums

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OK, glad to find out it wasn't my account that got hacked but it was the website instead. Now I just have to find another diversion this morning. oh wait, I'm at work. That should keep me occupied for a little while.

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OK, glad to find out it wasn't my account that got hacked but it was the website instead. Now I just have to find another diversion this morning. oh wait, I'm at work. That should keep me occupied for a little while.

 

LOL yep today is my day off but still up at crack of dawn. Time to hammer out more ideas to get my PN 20 back up and running again.

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OK, glad to find out it wasn't my account that got hacked but it was the website instead. Now I just have to find another diversion this morning. oh wait, I'm at work. That should keep me occupied for a little while.

 

:):D:rolleyes:

 

Chip dropped me a note back saying it was an internal IP that got banned, not us. They're working on it.

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I've been following this thread fairly closely, but I haven't seen one question yet. Does the PN-40 read negative elevation? That is, if I reach the very bottom of Death Valley, will it read at or near -282 feet below sea level?

One of my favorite old questions too. I was surprised my eXplorist 200 wouldn't read minus elevations. The Colorado will from what I understand but I haven't been able to test it myself. It will read a negative rate of descent when descending in elevation which is fun to watch either way but will it continue to read negative when descending below sea level? And how about that PN-40 too?

OK, I just reviewed the relaxed version, if I may describe it so, of the NDA and I think that I can now respond to that question.

 

Yes, the PN-20 does NOT chop negative values of elevation and display them as 0. This is true for elevations derived from GPS data and derived barometrically. I live essentially at sea level, about a 1 1/2 mile inland from PCH. While the PN-40 I see negative values for both elevation determinations.

 

But don't worry for me. I'm OK and my feet are not wet and the PN-40 is not giving bogus data. The negative values are just the resultant phenonema of measuring data subject to random fluctuations. I have no reason to believe that we would not get numbers in the range of -290 to -270 feet at Badwater.

 

Well, in any event, we'll now have to go to Badwater for other reasons. :D

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I've been following this thread fairly closely, but I haven't seen one question yet. Does the PN-40 read negative elevation? That is, if I reach the very bottom of Death Valley, will it read at or near -282 feet below sea level?

One of my favorite old questions too. I was surprised my eXplorist 200 wouldn't read minus elevations. The Colorado will from what I understand but I haven't been able to test it myself. It will read a negative rate of descent when descending in elevation which is fun to watch either way but will it continue to read negative when descending below sea level? And how about that PN-40 too?

OK, I just reviewed the relaxed version, if I may describe it so, of the NDA and I think that I can now respond to that question.

 

Yes, the PN-20 does NOT chop negative values of elevation and display them as 0. This is true for elevations derived from GPS data and derived barometrically. I live essentially at sea level, about a 1 1/2 mile inland from PCH. While the PN-40 I see negative values for both elevation determinations.

 

But don't worry for me. I'm OK and my feet are not wet and the PN-40 is not giving bogus data. The negative values are just the resultant phenonema of measuring data subject to random fluctuations. I have no reason to believe that we would not get numbers in the range of -290 to -270 feet at Badwater.

 

Well, in any event, we'll now have to go to Badwater for other reasons. :D

Thank you very much for that!

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I've been following this thread fairly closely, but I haven't seen one question yet. Does the PN-40 read negative elevation? That is, if I reach the very bottom of Death Valley, will it read at or near -282 feet below sea level?

One of my favorite old questions too. I was surprised my eXplorist 200 wouldn't read minus elevations. The Colorado will from what I understand but I haven't been able to test it myself. It will read a negative rate of descent when descending in elevation which is fun to watch either way but will it continue to read negative when descending below sea level? And how about that PN-40 too?

OK, I just reviewed the relaxed version, if I may describe it so, of the NDA and I think that I can now respond to that question.

 

Yes, the PN-20 does NOT chop negative values of elevation and display them as 0. This is true for elevations derived from GPS data and derived barometrically. I live essentially at sea level, about a 1 1/2 mile inland from PCH. While the PN-40 I see negative values for both elevation determinations.

 

But don't worry for me. I'm OK and my feet are not wet and the PN-40 is not giving bogus data. The negative values are just the resultant phenonema of measuring data subject to random fluctuations. I have no reason to believe that we would not get numbers in the range of -290 to -270 feet at Badwater.

 

Well, in any event, we'll now have to go to Badwater for other reasons. :D

What about ft/min? Does the PN-40 do ft/min and would it continue to read minus when dropping further down below sea level and only go positive when ascending even if you were still below sea level?

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Does or will the PN-40 offer the following features:

 

1. Recording barometric pressure trending while the unit is turned off?

2. Reading ft/min? (Should be answered in post above this one.)

3. Ambient air and water temps? I think the answer for air temp is 'no'. Could these be added software functions connected to available ground station WAAS?

4. Water depth?

5. Sun and moon rise and set forcasting?

6. Moon phase forecasting?

7. High and low tide forecasting?

 

Thanks.

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What about ft/min? Does the PN-40 do ft/min and would it continue to read minus when dropping further down below sea level and only go positive when ascending even if you were still below sea level?

 

As an option, I can select "Vertical Speed" for display in ft/sec. I've never tried this before.

 

OK, I'll go downstairs to see what it says.

 

Actually, it is displaying +0.0 ft/sec and -0.0 ft/sec as it toggles back and forth responding to minor atmospheric perturbations.

 

Seeing that, but not knowing it as a fact, I expect that the answer to your question is yes, it would show negative descending from -110 ft to -200 feet and the positive values back up to sea level.

 

Oh-oh, back to Badwater?

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