WVski Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 So many micros and not enough swag to trade anymore. Used to be when i found a cache, there was plenty of "GOOD" swag to trade for. Now a days, its all junk. And more and more micros are showing up 40 feet from the highway. Not sure about the rest of you, but i like to find a prize when i cache. Not just a piece of paper stuffed in a film canister. Even location caches are more fun than micros right along the road. Just my 2 cents worth. Well, at least i feel a little better complaining a bit...lol Quote Link to comment
+lrosell Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I don't know... I have several caches out, all which was stocked with good swag like tools, umbrellas, rain coats, new CD's and DVD's, etc. None which was the cheap 'dollar store' swag either. And guess what? Very few people trade items. It almost seems like the trading part of Geocaching is on the way out. I guess it could be because no one expects to find good swag anymore and thus never bring any trading items along. We always do, but to an extent I agree with you; it's more often you find junk swag than anything nice. We always trade up; a tape Stanley measure for a carbine hook, a CD for an old unplayable 8-track cassette. And so on. Maybe that's the solution; everybody trade up. At least two notches! Yes! Let's start a movement! Quote Link to comment
+WebChimp Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Well, at least i feel a little better complaining a bit...lol I believe this has already been covered. Please see #8. Quote Link to comment
+crosschk Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) I cant say I hate the macros, I have several out there myself. They help me get out of the office an hour a day. With that said, the swag does usually suck in the larger containers. I usually dont take any. If my daughter is with me, I end up taking some trinket she likes and leaving an extra sig item or two. I think swag wise, my favorites are the sig items. I have to start looking for more of those....when I get a regular container that is Edited June 25, 2008 by crosschk Quote Link to comment
+meralgia Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Wah. Another micro rant. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 So many micros and not enough swag to trade anymore. Used to be when i found a cache, there was plenty of "GOOD" swag to trade for. Now a days, its all junk. And more and more micros are showing up 40 feet from the highway. Not sure about the rest of you, but i like to find a prize when i cache. Not just a piece of paper stuffed in a film canister. Even location caches are more fun than micros right along the road. Just my 2 cents worth. Well, at least i feel a little better complaining a bit...lol I like real caches a lot more for the same reasons you do. So I find myself only looking for non micros most of the time. It makes caching more fun. If by chance I hear about a must do micro I can always go find it. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 So many micros and not enough swag to trade anymore. Used to be when i found a cache, there was plenty of "GOOD" swag to trade for. Now a days, its all junk. And more and more micros are showing up 40 feet from the highway. Not sure about the rest of you, but i like to find a prize when i cache. Not just a piece of paper stuffed in a film canister. Even location caches are more fun than micros right along the road. Just my 2 cents worth. Well, at least i feel a little better complaining a bit...lol If you don't like micros, become a PM and filter them out. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Well, at least i feel a little better complaining a bit...lol I believe this has already been covered. Please see #8. Ah, but this post as the seeds of a solution. Rule of thumb. Place the largest container the are can reasonably support. At least one cacher has seen the light: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=197214&hl= Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Wah. Another micro rant. Thanks for reminding me. So many ice cream sandwiches and not enough sundaes to eat anymore. Used to be when i ate ice cream there was plenty of "GOOD" topping to make a sundae with. Now a days, its all junk. And more and more ice cream sandwiches are showing up 40 feet from the highway. Not sure about the rest of you, but i like a sundae with hot fudge and whipped cream when i eat ice cream. Not just a piece of vanilla ice cream stuffed between two crackers. Even frozen yogurt with toppings are more fun than ice cream sandwiches right along the road. [the original statement that location caches (whatever they are) are more fun than micros didn't make much sense either] Just my 2 cents worth. Well, at least i feel a little better complaining a bit...lol Quote Link to comment
+infiniteMPG Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 So many micros and not enough swag to trade anymore. Used to be when i found a cache, there was plenty of "GOOD" swag to trade for. Now a days, its all junk. And more and more micros are showing up 40 feet from the highway. A bad hide is a bad hide regardless of the size of the container. A large ammo can tossed under the bushes behind a dumpster behind Wal-Mart is just as bad as a micro hidden at a place with nothing to see and not challenge to find. There is no black-and-white "micros = bad, ammo cans = good" summation. Lame caches are lame caches but you have to look at the overall hide. A magnetic hide-a-key on a guard rail on a canyon overlook or where a break in the trees reveals a winding river are great. I would rather get to a spot in the woods and face the challenge of figuring out where and how a cacher hid and camoflauged a micro then I would walking up to the same spot and in 2 seconds go "There's the ammo can" because there's only 2 places it could possibly be. At the same spot there might be 2,000 places a micro could be, it's a bigger challenge and too much of one for some people. It all depends on if you enjoy the challenge of making the final find or just enjoy the challenge of getting there and don't want finding the actual container to be a challenge once you've arrived. Kind of the difference between people that like checkers and those that like chess. Then there's those of us who like both Life is best when balanced. Some hides are great just for where there are. Some are great for how they're hidden. Some are great for a little of both. We enjoy some of all of them but it's up to each individual to decide what they want from geocaching.... but that's the great thing, no matter what you like you can find caches like that. But if you have limited likes then filter things out so that's all you hunt. But don't expect everyone (or anyone) else to have your tastes. Do what you like, like what you do. Quote Link to comment
+WebChimp Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I cant say I hate the macros.... I like macros, if they improve function of the original code. The GSAK macros rock. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Well, at least i feel a little better complaining a bit...lol I believe this has already been covered. Please see #8. Don't listen to the whiners, who apparently have a problem with people discussing their opinions, in, get this, a discussion forum, and accuse those holding those opinions of whining, when in fact they are the ones doing the whining. Don't like them, don't read them. Yup, geocaching has changed since your join date. You just have to carefully study each cache before going out, if you don't like such caches. I find you get pretty good at it, pretty fast, and it doesn't take long at all. I do however think caches traded down to boxes of junk are, and have been a fact of life all along. It's as inevitable as death and taxes. Quote Link to comment
WVski Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Some people i know only cache for the "trackable items". They wont find a cache unless it has a TB or a Coin in it. I read in a reply a few posts up about dollar store swag. Some dollar store swag is pretty cool. You can get a deck of cards for a dollar sometimes 2 for a buck. Iv'e put in squirt guns for the kids before from the dollar store. The junk im talking about are the little plastic spiders and grasshoppers, I even found a newspaper clipping in one cache but they cut the article off halfway down the column. Stuff like that ... I went along benchmark hunting with a friend one evening and we ran into a cacher replacing "ALL" the junk swag with more interesting items in a local cache. Maybe im biased, but when you try to get the wife or the kids interested in geocaching and you take them to find their first cache and its a piece of paper in a film canister or a ammo box loaded with junk, they dont seem to see the point in finding "hidden treasers" in the woods. But if they see a box full of toys, and the wife see's some hair bows or something like that. Then its easier to get them out the next time. That way its more about finding something cool in a cache for them...It's just about getting out and using the GPS for me... Again...Thanks for listening to me rant and rave a bit... Quote Link to comment
Skippermark Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) Rule of thumb. Place the largest container the are can reasonably support. Unless the hide is designed to be devious or a part of a multi, I agree with this. We were heading somewhere once and saw two caches pop up on the GPS. We pulled over because they weren't too far into the woods, and it turns out they were both film cans...in a huge state forest with no other caches around. We DNF'd one because it was in a big pile of rocks (we think, but saw logs later on saing the coords were 60-100 feet off), and we didn't really feel like searching very long. We found the other but not very quickly. Both spots would have been perfect candidates for a regular, the rugged type that makes that awesome clanking sound when you close it. Edit to say that I love micros, they are my largest found category, but in an area like this, when it can easily accommodate something larger, why not hide the bigger container. Edited June 25, 2008 by Skippermark Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Wah. Another micro rant. Weird, huh? It's amazing how often this subject comes up. Quote Link to comment
+stokstad Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) I'm a relatively new cacher and I have only placed 2 caches so far. I have seen a lot of junk in the 30 or so caches I have been too but I have seen a few with some good stuff in them. One even had a free fish dinner. In the two caches I have made I put all sorts of great stuff in them and have found that the few people that have visisted havn't taken anything. I don't get it. The one cache the whole point is for people to take things and not even leave things. I have in one a brand new DVD which is still there. It seems to me people are just too concentrated on FTF and numbers and don't care about swag. Which is very sad as my 4yr old son loves to find "treasures" Edited June 25, 2008 by stokstad Quote Link to comment
+derangedlunatech Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 One even had a free fish dinner. I'd be a bit concerned about how long the fish had been sitting in the cahce... Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 One even had a free fish dinner. I'd be a bit concerned about how long the fish had been sitting in the cahce... Wow. An ammo can smells bad enough after being closed up for a while. Could you imagine how it would smell after having a fish dinner in it for a week? Quote Link to comment
+ArcherDragoon Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I'm a relatively new cacher and I have only placed 2 caches so far. I have seen a lot of junk in the 30 or so caches I have been too but I have seen a few with some good stuff in them. One even had a free fish dinner. In the two caches I have made I put all sorts of great stuff in them and have found that the few people that have visisted havn't taken anything. I don't get it. The one cache the whole point is for people to take things and not even leave things. I have in one a brand new DVD which is still there. It seems to me people are just too concentrated on FTF and numbers and don't care about swag. Which is very sad as my 4yr old son loves to find "treasures" Not always...recall: If you take something...leave something. (That "If" is very important). I, personally, tend not to take anything...nor do I trade often. Personally, the travel and the search are the reward when I go caching. I do my best to stock caches I hide...but for caches I find...I usually go for the search, write in the log book and share about my "adventure" online. My personal goal is to improve my average words per log to well over 100 (sure...I started out with the usually acronyms and short phrase...but soon realized I was hurting myself and my personal caching history). I look at taking/trading items as a personal choice...(I don't take things to start with...I follow the...If you Take, you Leave...)...I just enjoy the adventure and use the online part to share with others. Later, ArcherDragoon Quote Link to comment
Skippermark Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) I'm a relatively new cacher and I have only placed 2 caches so far. I have seen a lot of junk in the 30 or so caches I have been too but I have seen a few with some good stuff in them. One even had a free fish dinner. In the two caches I have made I put all sorts of great stuff in them and have found that the few people that have visisted havn't taken anything. I don't get it. The one cache the whole point is for people to take things and not even leave things. I have in one a brand new DVD which is still there. It seems to me people are just too concentrated on FTF and numbers and don't care about swag. Which is very sad as my 4yr old son loves to find "treasures" In a cache like that, I'd probably take something and leave something nice. But, the problem is that many caches end up with junk in them so we'd trade something nice that we bought and ended up only having to take something junky. We eventually quit trading because we were only getting garbage, broken toys, kids meal toys, things with parts missing... Our 8 year old son doesn't even want to trade anymore because he was asking why he had to give away a nice whatever, only to have to take a broken whatever. He said he'd rather have the nice one we were leaving... Edited June 25, 2008 by Skippermark Quote Link to comment
+NeoAddict Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I love to trade and find that the quality of swag has decreased over the years, but I've also noticed that the amount of trading has also decreased. In the logs I get from my hides, I rarely see a log stating they traded something for something, not including travel bugs or geocoins. It seems the trend now is to trade for coins or bugs, or don't trade at all since it's mostly junk anyway. Quote Link to comment
+parker313 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 the wife see's some hair bows or something like that. Then its easier to get them out the next time. That way its more about finding something cool in a cache for them... A hair bow That tickled my funny bone. I have never seen a hair bow in a cache....and yet I keep coming back. Go figure Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 i just like to see interesting stuff in the box when i open it up. i carry a little tin of items suitable for micros. sometimes i trade, and sometimes not. if the cache is really nice i'm usually moved to put something in whether or not i take anything out. i prefer containers large enough to fit a cd, because a cd or dvd is my preferred signature. Quote Link to comment
+infiniteMPG Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Rule of thumb. Place the largest container the are can reasonably support.Not my thumb.... We have dozens upon dozens of caches hidden in a nearly 6,000 acre preserve that is brutal hiking in the summer and the deepest parts are more then 10 miles in. The caches are hidden to bring people to different unique places in the preserve and some just to challenge them. If every one of them was an ammo can it would be pretty lame... take a keychain from this one, put it in that one, take the Hotwheels car from this one and put it in that one... blah-blah-blah. The last thing people generally want to do when hiking in there is carry one ounce of gear that doesn't support their survival (food, lots of fluids, sunscreen, first aid gear, etc) so swag trade just wouldn't happen. And some of the caches are tricky tree climbs, cool camo jobs, and a wide variety of techniques. Every place "could" support a full sized ammo can but it would be boring. There is a full mix of micro, small and regular caches and a wide selection of camo jobs and even an ammo can I put out there big enough to hide a small person in. Also several multi-caches and mystery caches. I also have an urban hide I recently did that is a centrally located downtown full sized Lock-n-Lock in a place people can't believe I got that big a container hidden at. Variety is nice... rule of my thumb, place the size container that suits the hide location, the challenge you want to present to people and the technique you use and forget what someone else thinks. If they don't want to find the kind you hide then let 'em filter it out Quote Link to comment
+infiniteMPG Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 In the two caches I have made I put all sorts of great stuff in them and have found that the few people that have visisted havn't taken anything. I don't get it. The one cache the whole point is for people to take things and not even leave things. I have in one a brand new DVD which is still there. It seems to me people are just too concentrated on FTF and numbers and don't care about swag. Which is very sad as my 4yr old son loves to find "treasures"Swag trade is not real high on everyone's list. Normally it's to make it a treasure hunt for the kids but I know a lot of adults enjoy it, too. But geocaching to some of us is mainly the challenge of the find, not just the FTF, but conquering the challenge the owner laid out for us. Or discovering the neat unique location they brought us to. Everyone takes away something different from this and that's what's so great about it, there is something for everyone. But all cachers are unique so don't expect everyone to have the same priorities. The brand new DVD might not be of interest to the people who found the cache it but be glad they didn't just grab it for the sake of grabbing something as they left it for someone who does want to trade. And I don't think people who don't trade would look at a trade themed cache and think "We don't like trading so delete that one from the GPSr". We people who just like the finds, the locations and the challenges are the easiest to please as we don't complain about the contents, we don't complain about the size container and unless it's super lame we usually don't complain about a cache at all. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) ...The caches are hidden to bring people to different unique places in the preserve and some just to challenge them. If every one of them was micro it would be intensly lame... ... Tweaked to match my view on it. If I had to choose all ammo cans vs all micros for that brutal hike series I'm going to go with ammo. The thing is trading isnt' required. Moving a hotwheer hither and yon is optional. Some folks wouldn't mind finding a Jeep TB and taking some photo's for the contest (if one comes up again). Micros preclude certain options and dont' offer up as much fun in general. Are they all evil? No. But they are like a 2 seat sports car in a partridge family garage. Useful for their purpose but nowhere near as handy as the minivan. If I had to hike in 27 miles barefoot and naked uphill all the way (through a blizzard in the blazing sun, sunburnt, frozen, and thirsty all the while) and I wansn't up to an ammo can I'd probably use a Decon Container where you could do some swag just the same or use a log large enough to actually write on with a pencil that you don't need to hold with tweezers. There is more than just swag as a consideration. Edited June 25, 2008 by Renegade Knight Quote Link to comment
+crosschk Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I cant say I hate the macros.... I like macros, if they improve function of the original code. The GSAK macros rock. I always get my photo terms and my geoterms confused. Rephrase - I don't mind the micros Quote Link to comment
+stokstad Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 One even had a free fish dinner. I'd be a bit concerned about how long the fish had been sitting in the cahce... To claim your dinner you had to go into the VFW and tell them you were a geocacher and sign another log for the coupon. I did walk right into that. I don't mind that people dont want to trade. I just can't take my son looking for micros as he gets very bored. Looking at a tiny container with a rolled up piece of paper in it dioes nothing for him. I'm usually happy because I found the blasted thing but hes like ok whatever whats next. Quote Link to comment
+DrgnTrappr Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Now I'm not fond of micro's but I have found a few, and a couple were pretty tough to log with all the muggles around. Still I love the treasure part of the hunt too, and lately the treasure has been trash. I have decided that even if I dont take I will always leave some Quality swag so the next finder will not be as dissapointed as I may have been. DrgnTrappr Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 (edited) ...The caches are hidden to bring people to different unique places in the preserve and some just to challenge them. If every one of them was micro it would be intensly lame... ...Tweaked to match my view on it. ...That simply proves that your 'rule of thumb' isn't applicable to everyone. People should place the cache that they want to place. If others don't want to search for a cache of that size, they don't have to. Edited June 26, 2008 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 For me it has nothing to do with the size of the cache and everything to do with location. I did a study and 87.3 percent of micros are hidden lame spots. To contrast that, only 11.6 percent of ammo boxes are hidden in lame spots. Tupperware is slightly higher, with 15.1 percent hidden in lame spots. Quote Link to comment
+derangedlunatech Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 For me it has nothing to do with the size of the cache and everything to do with location. I did a study and 87.3 percent of micros are hidden lame spots. To contrast that, only 11.6 percent of ammo boxes are hidden in lame spots. Tupperware is slightly higher, with 15.1 percent hidden in lame spots. Was that based on random samples, or were all caches counted? Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 (edited) For me it has nothing to do with the size of the cache and everything to do with location. I did a study and 87.3 percent of micros are hidden lame spots. To contrast that, only 11.6 percent of ammo boxes are hidden in lame spots. Tupperware is slightly higher, with 15.1 percent hidden in lame spots.Of course, it should be noted that this thread is about micros, not any one person's definition of lame. Speaking of which, what was the sample size in your 'study'? How did you pull your sample? How did you define 'lame'? Edited June 26, 2008 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 For me it has nothing to do with the size of the cache and everything to do with location. I did a study and 87.3 percent of micros are hidden lame spots. To contrast that, only 11.6 percent of ammo boxes are hidden in lame spots. Tupperware is slightly higher, with 15.1 percent hidden in lame spots. It depends on your breakdown. If I look at urban hides nearly every ammo can I have found has been in a "lame" location. The number one location for urban ammo cans are caches people keep in their front yards. I show up on a quiet residential street and have to decide whose driveway I'm going to walk up. Dogs are barking and I'm hoping I picked the right driveway. There it is sitting the porch out in the open. After front yards come alleys. The cache will be hidden in a bush behind some dumpster. Yeah, thanks for showing me this nice location. Even when a ammo can is hidden in an urban park, it will be way in the back in some bushes where no one goes except perhaps drug users or people who won't spend money on a hotel room. In at least one case I've found used condoms sitting right on the ammo can. Micros on the other hand have a much higher chance of taking me to a nice location. Perhaps some public artwork or statue. Even on on the roof of parking structure with a nice view. Quite frankly, most Wal*Mart parking lots are nicer than some places where I've found urban ammo cans or other regular sized cache. For rural and wilderness caches you have a better chance to find a nice location to hide an ammo can. So you the chances of a lame ammo can goes down. In my personal experience however there is still more chance that an ammo can will take you to some godforsaken place that you had to bushwhack to get to than a small or micro which will generally be hidden closer to the trail, often in a more scenic or historic location. Granted that many times when looking for a wilderness cache I may enjoy the challenge of going off the beaten path and in these cases I would rather be looking for an ammo can, but if there are few smalls or micros along the way that are easy to get it's fine with me. Quote Link to comment
+WebChimp Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Of course, it should be noted that this thread is about micros, not any one person's definition of lame. Speaking of which, what was the sample size in your 'study'? A recent survey of 2,248 caches (60% micro, 38% regular, 2% extra cheesy) found that the micros and the regulars all generated exactly the same size smileys. The extra cheesy caches were the same size, but uch more sticky. Quote Link to comment
+infiniteMPG Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 For me it has nothing to do with the size of the cache and everything to do with location. I did a study and 87.3 percent of micros are hidden lame spots. To contrast that, only 11.6 percent of ammo boxes are hidden in lame spots. Tupperware is slightly higher, with 15.1 percent hidden in lame spots.Who's interpretation of "lame"? Some people absolutely love urban magnetic keyholders they can quickly snap up and they get a lot of satisfaction at ones they can get without hardly turning the car off. To other's that's lame. If I recall correctly "lame" in terms of geocaching can be summed up as something that is "unsatisfying" and in that sense, there will be as many interprtations of "lame" as there are cachers. Quote Link to comment
+infiniteMPG Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 A recent survey of 2,248 caches (60% micro, 38% regular, 2% extra cheesy) found that the micros and the regulars all generated exactly the same size smileys. The extra cheesy caches were the same size, but uch more sticky.Cute.... but just like that post, the only smile that really matters is the one on your face when you find something you enjoyed. There's no formula, no set in stone thing that makes any cache better or worse then any other by some published standard.... leave that to the socialists. When people start looking at hides as pieces of artwork they might get a better perspective. Some are unique masterpieces, some are just entertaining, while some are just hard to understand. But not everyone likes the same thing which is why some people like the masterpieces, but a whole lot of people are satisfied with what they bought on sale at Wallyworld. No matter what you think about it, to someone it's art. People can be critics and try to pass judgement if that's what they enjoy doing. I'd rather just appreicate the creativity and walk past what doesn't move me... 'cause it might move the next person along Quote Link to comment
+meralgia Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Wah. Another micro rant.Thanks for reminding me. So many ice cream sandwiches and not enough sundaes to eat anymore. Used to be when i ate ice cream there was plenty of "GOOD" topping to make a sundae with. Now a days, its all junk. And more and more ice cream sandwiches are showing up 40 feet from the highway. HA HA HA HA!!!! Mmmm, ice cream. Or if you're weebl and bob, Mmmm, pie!! Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I stopped caring about swag after the first hundred finds. I care more about the inability to drop TBs and geocoins into the microcaches, where a larger cache would have the room. Especially when the location could easy hold a larger cache. I've found lots of micros where only a micro would fit. And I've hidden a few of those myself. It's the micros where a Lock and Lock would fit that bug me. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 When people start looking at hides as pieces of artwork they might get a better perspective. I'm sensing a new T-shirt in my future. Film Canisters: The velvet Elvis of geocaching. Quote Link to comment
+emmett Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 . I have placed several caches well stocked with decent stuff only to find that visitors trade down and exercise little care with the cache itself. Just not worth it. . Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I stopped caring about swag after the first hundred finds. I care more about the inability to drop TBs and geocoins into the microcaches, where a larger cache would have the room. Especially when the location could easy hold a larger cache. I've found lots of micros where only a micro would fit. And I've hidden a few of those myself. It's the micros where a Lock and Lock would fit that bug me.I assume that if you are going out with the purpose of moving a travel bug that you are probably targeting larger caches. As such, why would it matter that micros also exist? Quote Link to comment
+eigengott Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 So many micros I don't see a single one in my pocket queries. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 . I have placed several caches well stocked with decent stuff only to find that visitors trade down and exercise little care with the cache itself. Just not worth it. . So now you place Micro's? Or now you place empy larger containers? I prefer the latter over the former. Quote Link to comment
+infiniteMPG Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 (edited) Other then not having a residing spot for TB's and geocoins, it's starting to sound like people that profoundly like ammo can's over micros are saying so because they're just plain old easier to find. I know some people like to walk to ground zero and hear that clunk of an ammo can at thier first hiking stick poke under the one lone tree within 50-feet, but some of us would rather get to ground zero and then try to out think the owner. Or place caches that will make people try to out think us. Like a log yesterday of a group going after the nicely camo'ed micro final of a multi-cache at a local lake park which has subliminal hints on which way to go around the lake. They didn't figure that out and found themselves staring across a swamp water break in the trail. They actually braved the wade across the swamp rather then the 2 mile walk back around the other way to make the find. A total riot to read about and they loved the adventure and never once stated "You could of put a full sized cache out here". The fun and the adventure were the find, not the size of the container. Edited June 27, 2008 by infiniteMPG Quote Link to comment
+derangedlunatech Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Other then not having a residing spot for TB's and geocoins, it's starting to sound like people that profoundly like ammo can's over micros are saying so because they're just plain old easier to find. I know some people like to walk to ground zero and hear that clunk of an ammo can at thier first hiking stick poke under the one lone tree within 50-feet, but some of us would rather get to ground zero and then try to out think the owner. Or place caches that will make people try to out think us. So far, from what I've seen in my limited caching experience, it strikes me that larger caches seem to be better thought-out and more interesting locations. I have seen a few micros where the locations were great, and a micro was the only thing that would work well there. I've also seen several where the deciding factor to place them seemed to be "there's no other caches within .1 mile." Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Other then not having a residing spot for TB's and geocoins, it's starting to sound like people that profoundly like ammo can's over micros are saying so because they're just plain old easier to find. I know some people like to walk to ground zero and hear that clunk of an ammo can at thier first hiking stick poke under the one lone tree within 50-feet, but some of us would rather get to ground zero and then try to out think the owner. Or place caches that will make people try to out think us. Like a log yesterday of a group going after the nicely camo'ed micro final of a multi-cache at a local lake park which has subliminal hints on which way to go around the lake. They didn't figure that out and found themselves staring across a swamp water break in the trail. They actually braved the wade across the swamp rather then the 2 mile walk back around the other way to make the find. A total riot to read about and they loved the adventure and never once stated "You could of put a full sized cache out here". The fun and the adventure were the find, not the size of the container. I don't cache in order to out-think anyone. I've thought many times that it was a good thing that I started caching in early 2002, otherwise I don't know if I would have gotten interested in caching if I had started more recently. It's a lot different now than it was - not necessarily good or bad - just different. I've enjoyed being along for the ride. But I definitely prefer the clunk of an ammo can under the lone tree. (Or the cairn of rocks, as it seemed to always be in our area years ago). Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 (edited) Other then not having a residing spot for TB's and geocoins, it's starting to sound like people that profoundly like ammo can's over micros are saying so because they're just plain old easier to find. .... I like swag. I seldom trade. I almost always leave a foregin coin. Most of those actually fit in film canisters. When it comes to hides. I like challenging hides. The kind where the cache owner was inspired. That can mean a micro because of the inspiration. If so, great. I'm thinking of a couple that flat out made me smile when I found them. However most micros are callenging in the same way a needle in a hay stack is challenging. Nobody is out thinking anybody in that situation. For needle in the haystack finds I prefer a 57 chevy in a rock pile. To be honest I also think in terms of two kinds of work for a find. If the work is getting there I prefer an easier find once I'm there. I may not be back. If it's easy to get there, I don't mind spending more time looking. If it's going to be both...it needs to be an experience above and beyond a normal cache to be enjoyable. Not just a needle in a haystack at the end of a brutal hike. That's my larger philospy in 2 paragraphs. Edited June 27, 2008 by Renegade Knight Quote Link to comment
dlp8 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 (edited) We people who just like the finds, the locations and the challenges are the easiest to please as we don't complain about the contents, we don't complain about the size container and unless it's super lame we usually don't complain about a cache at all. [This is a quote from an earlier post. I'm still trying to figure out how to quote a post. Bear with me. I see my status is "tadpole." That's pretty humbling]. In our limited experience--in both time and geography--we have noticed a beautiful variety of types of caches, suited to many different interests, goals, skill levels, and priorities. Not knowing any better, our first hunts were for micros, and our record was horrible. But we were undaunted. We started this sport (which has now bloomed into a full-blown addiction, by the way, which would explain why I am writing this post instead of working), as a way to get more active and to get my three youngest boys (11, 8, 7) out of the house and into the great outdoors. In order to keep them excited about it, therefore, we decided, collectively, to forego micros and focus on caches with treasure. Our last several hunts have been decidedly anti-micro. For my part, I agree with those in this thread who have expressed that the fun of this sport is the technology, the hike, the search, and the find. With only a handful under our belt, that's the way I feel as well. But my boys, as often as they've said, "Dad, I'm just going to do like you and just sign the logbook," when they see a squirt gun or a hotwheel, their resolve goes right out the window. They just love the treasures and the trades. So, we focus on regulars, and for three little boys, the swag doesn't have to be too glamorous for them to feel like Indiana Jones. They see a rubber dinosaur in there, and they go bonkers. Now, having said that, last night, we found our first micro as part of a multi-part cache. We stood there in the park, thinking, where would you hide a micro? 'Pretty cool to find a magnetic key holder hidden on the backside of a signpost. My boys even said, "That's the cache?!? That's cool!!!" 'Made me realize that there is something in this sport for everyone, and it largely depends on what you are after at the moment. There may be a proliferation of micros because the general skill level of the caching community is improving, but what do I know! Hopefully there will also be a continued increase in smalls and regulars (and even larges). With only two dozen to our name, there are plenty of regulars out there for us to still find! As for the concerns about the quality of swag, I recently saw a mournful message by CoolCache, attached to the description of one of the more clever caches we've found. He lamented the increase of low-quality caching, which I assume refers to those who trade down--sometimes way down. We've found our share of gum wrappers in 22 caches (although sometimes the Laffy Taffy jokes are funny). We have therefore committed to being "High-Quality Cachers." We have tried to leave things in the caches we have found that would be fun for our little crew to find. We have also started making hand-made craft items to drop in our finds. In short, we are trying to do our part to improve the quality of what is in the caches. While the "stuff" is not the biggest draw for me, it is important to me because it keeps my boys "in the game." We think quality is important, and they like the "cool" stuff. But by the same token, they still go nuts over rubber dinosaurs. And more and more, they sometimes just like the hunt. From a philisophical standpoint, the sport has many aspects and, therefore, many appeals. There are many options and many choices. There are also many newbies, like us, who may not only bring a new dimension and perspective, but may also bring new caches with new swag. While some are not in it for the "swag," certainly those who do trade should trade pursuant to the Golden Rule, and the concerns and views expressed in this thread should perhaps be broadcast more generally (like on the Groundspeak/Geocaching home page). Just my humble thoughts, for what they're worth. I'm going to post another question, revealing my total inexperience, then I'm getting back to work. Edited June 27, 2008 by dlp8 Quote Link to comment
dlp8 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 To be honest I also think in terms of two kinds of work for a find. If the work is getting there I prefer an easier find once I'm there. I may not be back. If it's easy to get there, I don't mind spending more time looking. If it's going to be both...it needs to be an experience above and beyond a normal cache to be enjoyable. Not just a needle in a haystack at the end of a brutal hike. That's my larger philospy in 2 paragraphs. Well said, and it matches this beginner's experience. It does make me wish I'd started sooner, but I'm grateful to have started, period. Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment
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