+sweetlife Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Is there a way that you can find where the benchmarks are by standing or where firetowers were standing, I dont really search for all BM's but do injoy the firetower link, would be interested in ones in Wisconsin and the UP of Michigan mainly Quote Link to comment
tosborn Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) I don't think there is a really simple direct way to do what you want. However, one could download the State Archive files from NGS for Wisconsin and Michigan, eliminate all records in Michigan except the UP, and then search for any remaining record in Wisconsin or Michigan in which the name of the record contained "LOOKOUT" or "LOT" (short for lookout tower). Then one would know the locations of most of the lookout towers (mainly intersection stations) that are in the NGS database and one could then do a radial search from them to find nearby benchmarks. I've gone ahead and located all the "LOOKOUT" or "LOT" records (163 of them) in Wisconsin and the UP of Michigan currently in the NGS State Archive shapefiles. At the following link is a comma-separated-values (csv) file with their PIDs, State, County, Lat, and Long that you can download. LINK Good Hunting! Edited June 25, 2008 by tosborn Quote Link to comment
+Black Dog Trackers Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 sweetlife - I used ngsread and selected marker type 57 (Lookout Tower) and selected a PID list output. (These are strictly the Lookout Tower PIDs, not disks near firetowers.) For MI, I got this list (I checked the first 3 and only 1 of them is in tosborn's list): NF1651 RL1515 RK0612 RK0651 RM0620 RL1622 RK0502 QM0585 RK0605 QK0758 RL1524 PM0551 QK0678 RK0673 PL0498 RK0623 QK0776 RL1654 NF1351 RL1552 RK0653 RH0024 RL1652 RK0616 RL1614 RK0639 For WI, I got: QM0628 QM0627 QM0616 QN0582 QM0716 QM0714 RM0771 PO0581 QN0580 PN1300 PO0592 PO0596 QM0695 QM0631 PO0588 RL1630 QO1445 RM0831 QM0640 PN1274 QN0444 OM1243 QM0738 RM0849 QO1549 PO0579 QN0586 QM0753 QM0656 QM0635 PO0574 PN1013 QM0661 QM0743 QN0583 RM0804 OM1202 RM0702 QM0622 QO1440 RM0682 RL1606 PO0582 QM0668 RM0693 QM0617 PN1284 PO0561 PO0583 QM0690 PM0429 QN0484 QM0719 RM0835 PO0569 QN0516 QM0718 QO1446 PO0552 QM0634 OM1200 PO0617 QM0755 PO0620 PO0621 RM0817 QN0473 PO0627 QN0462 QM0739 Quote Link to comment
andylphoto Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Looks like you've got some PIDs to sort through! I looked through my previous logs and noticed RK0533 doesn't appear to be in either list. Not sure why that one didn't get picked up, as it looks like other destroyed marks do appear. I've had several towers marked destroyed that are no longer there. A couple things to consider...are you interested in the towers because of their status as benchmarks, or just interested in the lookout towers? Are you interested in former tower locations, even if the tower has been removed? If so, you'll find a lot of both. As I mentioned, you'll find several in both lists that I have visited and had marked destroyed as the tower is no longer standing. If you're interested in towers or tower locations where the tower wasn't a benchmark, you can find a number of those by looking through data sheets. Often, triangulation station disks were set in the vicinity of lookout towers, because both towers and triangulation stations were set at high points. Often, one of the reference marks for a triangulation station was set in the center of the base of the tower. These towers were sometimes, but not always, included in the database. I just did a quick search of Marquette County, specifying horizontal control stations, picked a few likely suspects and came up with a couple at locations of lookout towers: RK0513 RK0516 RK0499 The one I mentioned in the first paragraph is also in this category. I have also visited a couple where the tower was referenced in the data sheets for other stations (FOX & VULCAN, both in Dickinson County) where the tower was still standing and used for other purposes: QM0582 QL0578 From the NGS datasheet page, you can also do a search by county for destroyed marks. In Baraga County, for example, you'll find RL1585 which doesn't appear on either list above. Obviously, this would only get you to lookout towers that formerly existed. Hope that helps. Andy Quote Link to comment
tosborn Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) >>For MI, I got this list (I checked the first 3 and only 1 of them is in tosborn's list): Black Dog: In Michigan did you seach the whole State or only the upper peninsula? For Michigan my list is just for the upper peninsula. Also, I noticed two records in my list that are not lookout towers, but had "lot" in the names...."Charlotte River MI - RJ1321" and "Blotch WI - PO0576" so those two can be disregarded. Edited June 25, 2008 by tosborn Quote Link to comment
tosborn Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) >>For MI, I got this list (I checked the first 3 and only 1 of them is in tosborn's list): Black Dog: In Michigan did you seach the whole State or only the upper peninsula? For Michigan my list is just for the upper peninsula. Also, I noticed two records in my list that are not lookout towers, but had "lot" in the names...."Charlotte River MI - RJ1321" and "Blotch WI - PO0576" so those two can be disregarded. Andy: RK0533 isn't in either list because it was reported to NGS as destroyed. In my case, digital datasheet aren't provided in the State archive shapefiles for destroyed marks. Edited June 25, 2008 by tosborn Quote Link to comment
andylphoto Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) >>For MI, I got this list (I checked the first 3 and only 1 of them is in tosborn's list): Black Dog: In Michigan did you seach the whole State or only the upper peninsula? For Michigan my list is just for the upper peninsula. Also, I noticed two records in my list that are not lookout towers, but had "lot" in the names...."Charlotte River MI - RJ1321" and "Blotch WI - PO0576" so those two can be disregarded. Looks like BDT's list had several downstate ones as well. Interestingly though, there are some PIDs that didn't make either list: RK0533 RL1585 Both are Marker Type 57, but destroyed. BDT's list has other destroyed marks... RK0616 RK0502 That's just two examples from each list...I haven't done an exhaustive search by any means--just anecdotal based only on towers I've visited and/or marked destroyed. EDIT: tosborn--you posted while I was typing. I had assumed the station wasn't in the list because of its destroyed status. But then I noticed a couple in the BDT list (not yours) that have also been marked destroyed by the NGS. Kinda weird. Edited June 25, 2008 by andylphoto Quote Link to comment
+Black Dog Trackers Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Black Dog: In Michigan did you seach the whole State or only the upper peninsula? For Michigan my list is just for the upper peninsula. I just used the whole state. I could've done it by county instead but I don't know the list of counties. All the NGS statefiles are from October 2006; they haven't updated them yet. That would be the reason for the Destroyed/not-Destroyed differences. Present-time county files can be downloaded, but I just did a quickie look at the 2 state files from 2006. I only used marker type 57. It could be that sometimes a firetower is coded as one of the other tower types instead of 57. Quote Link to comment
+jwahl Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I haven't perused the listings, but past experience tells me that even if the tower is listed as a station, it is not uncommon to find a monumented mark under it set by someone that may still survive even if the tower does not. While that may be reported clearly on the NGS data sheet it might not be. - jlw Quote Link to comment
+sweetlife Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 Thank you all for the help, I am looking for towers that are standing or not, so the ones that the tower was the mark, and has since been distroyed, the base are usually there, I would like to use these as areas to hide some new caches, and have some one find some history too Quote Link to comment
andylphoto Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 (edited) Thank you all for the help, I am looking for towers that are standing or not, so the ones that the tower was the mark, and has since been distroyed, the base are usually there, I would like to use these as areas to hide some new caches, and have some one find some history too With that in mind, here's some background on a couple. Some is duplicated from what you could read in my logs, but there's some additional information here as well. RK0502, the Dukes lookout tower is gone, but all concrete footings are still there. The area is wooded and kind of cool--a 30-second walk from M-94. There is a former tower near Skandia, RK0500, also very close to the highway (US-41.) Not sure if there are any remains or not, as I didn't look closely. Highway has been widened at this location. The Three Lakes lookout tower is gone, but I believe footings are still there. It's about a half-mile drive/walk off the highway. It can be driven with a truck, and some cars. Coordinates are the same as USGS mark RL1521. RK0533, The Gwinn tower location is kind of remote, but can be driven to with a truck or some cars. Tower is gone, but footings are still there. RK0616, the Walsh tower is gone. Footings are still there, but not much to see at this location. RL1585, Covington tower is gone, and the site is located on private property. QM0582 and QL0578 in Dickinson Co. are both drive-ups. The latter is a RM located under the Vulcan tower. It's located near the Norway Mt. Ski area, so regular traffic. If you make it up into the Keweenaw, RL1596 is located at the site of the Elm River tower. Tower is gone, but some remains are still there. I think one corner was destroyed by logging operations. You can drive to within a half mile, possibly closer with a large 4WD. The Hairpin lookout tower is gone, but footings remain. RK0587. You can drive to within about a quarter mile or so. Hope that information is helpful. Those are the ones I recall having personally visited. I might get a chance to visit the Wetmore tower later today. If so, I'll update with an edit. EDIT: The Wetmore tower is still standing. It is fenced at the bottom, and used to support two-way radio antennas. Edited June 27, 2008 by andylphoto Quote Link to comment
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