60 csx vs Vista hcx

[+Dryphter]

I don't believe you. If there's one thing that everyone (else) agrees on it's that the 60 is not a unit designed to be operated with one hand. Think about it, when you hold a 60 in your hand where does your thumb (the finger mostly used) naturally go. Yep it sits way up near the top of the unit on the right (or left). Hey where are the buttons on the 60, they are way down the bottom. funnily enough the buttons on the HCx are exactly where you want them when you hold the unit securely.

 

<snip>

 

Let's talk about the 'one handed' use of the 60 rocker switch with a separate 'enter' domed button immediately below and to it's right. Now when you are on the move and entering a lot of info like an address or simply typing stuff in, and you do it with one hand then your thumb has to scroll then come off the rocker, move to the 'enter' button, then return to the rocker for the next letter and so on.

 

 

Who exactly is everyone (else)?

 

Hmmmmmm guess I must be using my 60Csx all wrong then because I use it ONE HANDED ALL THE TIME! The above statement is completely misleading and just plan silly. I like the button layout on the 60 as I use it mounted to the handlebar of my motorcycle. The buttons are where I need them to be to manipulate them while driving since at that point I can only use one hand.

 

It's ok that you like the HCX better - no one really cares. Likewise no one that cares I like the 60csx. But please quit spreading misinformation (which is really YOUR OPINION). I read through many of the posts in this thread and see a lot of opinion being tossed out as facts. Both units do the same thing, they have different form factors and which is better is purely subjective based on the user's preferences. Your favorite does not equal better. Unless you really are a fanboy or troll, then you are just here for the argument.

Edited June 23, 2008 by MorganCoke

[gallet]

Hmmmmmm guess I must be using my 60Csx wrong then because I use it ONE HANDED ALL THE TIME!

 

OK, no need to shout. I'm sure about 50% of people use it one handed. I'm not saying it can't be used, I'm saying it's non ergonomic.

 

Non ergonomic.

 

Look at a screenshot of the video that is linked to in the recent post...

 

Notice how the pinky is not involved. To hold the 60 in that manner requires the pinky to be arched so it doesn't support the 60. The middle finger is a pivot point, as it is well below centre the unit is not balanced in the hand requiring lots of subtle movements that cause carpal tunnel syndrome. Still usable though.

 

The index finder not doing anything except to stop the top heavy top falling backward. But in the film all he is doing is moving the top buttons. Not using the rocker at all. See the arrow, that's pointing to the 'enter' button, notice that it is about 1/3" from the bottom of the unit. Try and imagine if you will the position of his hand when he puts the tip of his thumb on the 'enter' button. It would be easier if the thumb had an extra phalanx but that's thumbs for you.

 

Now imagine the thumb pressing the rocker, not just pressing it but having to exert a sideways force in all directions, and after ever movement having to press the awkward 'enter' button. This is what you have to do if you enter data. Of course it's usable, but it is not ergonomic.

 

It's ok that you like the HCX better - no one really cares. Likewise no once cares I like the 60csx. But please quite spreading misinformation (which is really YOUR OPINION).

 

Hey you can shout about it being my opinion, and I do have my opinions but you still need to tell me which thing I've said that are facts that you think are opinions. Regarding the bit that you quoted before shouting about my opinion...

 

your thumb has to scroll then come off the rocker, move to the 'enter' button, then return to the rocker for the next letter and so on.

 

The above is a factual statement. It is so obviously factual that I really cannot understand how you can refer to it as an opinion. But there you go.

 

[wallypop]

A little background. I started using GPS in 97 first thru Aviation. For street and trail use, I began with the old Garmin 3, then the 3+, then the 5, 276, vista, 276c, 376c and a handful of others. After a fair bit of research on this forum and others I settled on my latest GPSr the 60csx. My decision was based on what GPSr is best for geocaching. Most of my research was reading user reviews and testimonials, which nearly always points me to the correct buying decision whether its lawn equip or electronics. The research is actually part of the fun. After reading hundreds of posts and comments a clear picture always emerges, and in this case it was "the 60csx was brilliant for geocaching". So thats what I got. My son on the other hand had the issue of cost to deal with so he opted for the cheaper hcx legend which in my opinion was a strong and easy second choice.

 

Having started in GPS in the late 90's, many receivers were simply better than others. So my usual tests were slow speed walks, keeping a fix under foliage and around buildings, and the accuracy of waypoints. Of course in the old days many GPSr failed these tests miserably, but we didn't know any better and we used what we had. As technology improved holding your fix in sketchy situations continued to get better, as did the accuracy. Fast forward to today. The test between my sons hcx and my 60csx proved what my research told me. The 60csx acquires, holds a fix, and is more sensitive at low speeds of any GPSr I have ever owned or used. The hcx is close but there is a difference. In real world caching situations and in the hands of an experience user, the 60csx will consistently put you closer to your target.

Edited June 23, 2008 by wallypop

[+kenk]

+1 as a one-handed 60CSx user ... though I tend to hold it with my right hand - not that it makes any difference. I do my button-pushing with my thumb. Actually I don't think I've ever used it two-handed. Not sure why. I just can't remember doing it that way.

 

I find it very comfortable to use one-handed.

 

Maybe I'm forgetfull, but except for the most often used buttons (Find, Enter, Page ...), I still find myself looking at the button labels to figure out which ones I need to use. Their placement on the front is also real nice for use in the truck - which I do a LOT.

 

Great GPS!!! It has never let me down - though the 24K National Park Topo did create a road route straight through a fairly large lake in Montana. The City Navigator never did that. Can't go wrong with a 60CSx.

 

Does the eTrex HCX have an external antenna port? Not that I use mine a lot - I certainly don't need it for reception in the truck. I do sometimes use it on the outside of a backpack when I keep the GPS on while walking. That way I can keep the GPS safe in a pocket but still get good signal strength.

 

Whatever you buy, make sure it has the high sensitivity receiver. THAT is amazing compared to the older non-H units (I have a GPS+ III and two Gekos).

Edited June 23, 2008 by kenk

[wallypop]

Regarding the ease of handling between the 2 units. Neither is what I would call ergonomic. As gallet points out , the 60csx buttons being below the screen can make it a bit fiddly with one hand. If I want to enter information fast and accurate supporting it with the other hand is best, If need be though it can easily be opperated completly with one hand. Also the fact that the buttons are all on the front make it much more, M/cycle and snowmobile friendly. The unit can easily be manipulated while in a cradle.

 

The hjc legend with its smaller size and side buttons are easily reached with one hand. Having a vista myself I know that they require stiff pressure and the fact you cant see them requires a bit of trial and error. but once learned not bad. All in all haveing more dedicated and clearly labeled buttons make navigating thru menus easier on the 60csx...for me. The biggest feature for me the hjc has over the 60 is its brighter screen. Its not that its an issue with the 60 but brighter IS better.

[+SimbaJamey]

I had both in May, returned both for a Colorado.

 

I found the buttons on the 60 easier to use, even after I got used to the ones on the Vista.

I thought the knob button on the Vista was a pain in the holster especially.

And as far as design goes...using it one-handed with the Vista in my right hand, my hand pretty much covered the screen when my thumb was in the knob...poor design in my book...and before you tell me I should have switched hands...my left hand is there for decorative purposes only.

Am I remembering incorrectly that on the 60 if you press in the rocker button it's the same as pressing the knob on the Vista?

 

In the 2 weeks I had them side-by-side...I found the 60 to be faster and easier to use because of the buttons. (when entering subsequent waypoints while working a multi, for example).

I also found on 2 occasions that the 60 brought me right to a cache without jumping around when I had previously DNFed both with the Vista. And as an added caveat, I went back with a friend 2 weeks later with just the Vista (had already returned the 60) and even though I'd found it on my 2nd try, I forgot where the third stage was and DNFed the darn thing AGAIN! The problem seemed to be when the waypoint (cache) is just inside a tree line (in that case about 20' in) next to an open field. As soon as I get in the trees with the Vista the arrow starts pointing me back out to the field but the 60 took me into the trees and kept pointing true and I made a pretty easy find.

 

I forget which one...but IIRC one can scroll diagonally across the map when you push the button but the other can only move horizontally and vertically.

 

Lastly...I thought the Vistas screen was WAY brighter than the 60.

[gallet]

Anyway, simply staying with my observations. I have clipped a few seconds from the previous posted vid. I suggest the prospective 60 buyer loop it a few times. Particularly notice the screen grab in this still.

 

Watch how the thumb inches it's way down the side and as it does that, and he is just about to hit the rocker switch, you can see that he has has to stretch his index finger as far as he can so the tip is under the antenna. At the same time this is happening his little finger *must* come completely off the unit because his other two fingers have to shift position in order to give the thumb something to press against.

 

So the thumb is not pressing into a stable unit it's pressing in to a unit balanced on two fingers behind it.

 

Someone earlier said it's not different right or left handed but of course it is because the "enter" button is below and to the right of the rocker. So using the left hand make the 'enter' button further away and easier to reach.

 

The clip I link to and discuss is left handed, so it will be worse right handed. Someone earlier mentions carpal tunnel syndrome and the obvious contortions of the hand in these shots and examined closely show how much effort has to be put into using it.

 

Also note that this was just paging, there was no entering text with the rocker which would have been fun to see especially right handed.

 

Funnily enough when I first pointed this out a long time ago thats it's a bear to operate with one hand, most people wrote in to say they use two hands. Go figger.

 

Now I'm not saying you can't use it, even right handed, I'm saying it's really bad ergonomics. The complete opposite of the Colorado.

 

Notice how the unit needs to be constantly shifted in the hand as different buttons are pressed. Now with the HCx yes, you also need to shift the HCx around to, the difference being that it nestles safely in your hand where as the 60csx is balancing on two fingers behind it.

 

Try this at home: look at the shot below and just position your hand in the same way, stretch the index finger waaaay up then put the two middle fingers together in the position you can see now move you pinky away from the other to fingers and arch it as well. How does that feel?

 

 

Edited June 24, 2008 by gallet

[+SparkyInCali]

I have the 60csx and it works great for me.I personally use it with no problems one handed.I have even used it one handed while riding my motorcycle down the road before I got a mount for it.A lot of these things come down to personal preference which feels better to you.I was thinking about picking up an Hcx to add to my collection since I love GPS toys (have a Colorado 400,60csx and Garmin mobile XT on my phone) but I decided it still seemed to be having firmware issues from what I have read here.Yes the Hcx is smaller and lighter but not enough of a difference for me.The batteries last longer because the screen is smaller and doesn't have to power the quad helix antenna but I get a full day straight out of 2500mah batteries so I am fine with that.Most people will be happy with either unit and some are only happy with the one they own.It is a great thing we have the choice to buy what we want then.

To the original poster buy either one and you will be happy I am sure.The Hcx could be had with maps for the same price as the 60 alone.If I were to do it again I would pay more and get the 60 because it is what I prefer but my preference is not right for all.

 

CrazyOn2Wheels

[reef mapper]

Gallet - will you please give up telling people that they are not able to use their kit? For the first time I tried using my 60 2-handed. I hate the "give" in the holding hand when pressing with the other hand. I can only use one-handed when part of the hand provides the resistance to the thumb. And yes, my thumb has no probs reaching all buttons. But then it is my left hand, and perhaps it benefits from its other life on the fingerboard of my Martin D18..

 

And yes I'm sure I need to get a Gibson because "everyone else" says Martins are no good!

Edited June 24, 2008 by reef mapper

[gallet]

Hi reef mapper. please don't editorialise my posts. I have no intention of ceasing to respectfully putting putting my observations regarding ergonomics on record. I do this in appreciation of all help that I get when I search the net. I research everything I buy and I'm very familiar with misinformation and I've found that one needs to read between the lines to get the full picture.

 

So I present the ergonomic facts, whether an individual does or doesn't mind the ergonomics, or indeed likes the ergonomics, (or says they like the ergonomics) these are valid opinions. That you like the unit, that you can contort to the position because of your extra guitar induced dexterity, is fine, but does not change the facts if a neutral observer were to place their hand in the position indicated in the video.

 

So I invite any prospective buyers to consider this. That's all. If someone is lucky enough to stumble upon my points on the ergonomics amid all the chorus to the contrary then they have the option to give this more consideration because as Henrik Ibsen said in that play about the corrupt spa builders, the majority are not always right.

[+SimbaJamey]

[robertlipe]

The ongoing sniping in this thread - despite previous warnings - and the large number of post reports has convinced me that it's going nowhere. Since the OP's question has been answered, it's time to close this down.

 

I'm closing this thread. Please let the vile displayed here die with this thread. If it doesn't, we can look forward to periods of forum suspensions where one can reflect upon the forum guidelines.