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60 csx vs Vista hcx


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I'm looking into buying a gps and I was wondering if there is much difference between these two models. The only thing I can really find that the 60csx has as far as specs over the vista hcx is tide tables, which are not important to me. Yet I believe there must be some reason for the price difference so Im asking all of you.

Thanks.

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I have the Vista HCx and prefer its smaller size to the 60CSx. It does everything the larger 60 does, including auto-routing, however it seems to have less "cool factor." :unsure:

 

The best thing to do is go to a store where you can handle both and see which one you like best.

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The HCx wee wee's all over the 60CSx, which is oversized and outdated. It's a bear with a spongy rocker switch and you need two hands to enter data. The HCx also displays tide tables in a special tide screen if you load them up.

 

HCx, ergonomic, small, light, compact, bright screen, big battery life

 

60CSx oversized, heavy for what it does, dull screen, bad ergonomics.

 

Notice how the HCx pick stick has an 'enter' button in the centre like the Colorado Rock and Roller, you know it makes sense.

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I have both and like both

I have city nav 2008 in the 60

and topo 2008 on the Vista

 

I got the 60 to use for off road driving and geocaching a few years ago

and recently got the vista so I could have topo to use for geocaching and hiking

having both is great. they both have their advantages and dis advantages

the 60 will withstand more of a beating than the vista but the vista is lighter and has better battery life.

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I have both and like both

I have city nav 2008 in the 60

and topo 2008 on the Vista

 

I got the 60 to use for off road driving and geocaching a few years ago

and recently got the vista so I could have topo to use for geocaching and hiking

having both is great. they both have their advantages and dis advantages

the 60 will withstand more of a beating than the vista but the vista is lighter and has better battery life.

I don't know why people keep saying the Vista is not as durable as the 60. I accidentally dropped my Vista C from a more-than-100' "cliff." When we found the GPSr at the bottom, it was still working.

 

If you did that to a 60, I think there is a good chance the antenna could break off as it bounced on its way down . . .

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I don't know why people keep saying the Vista is not as durable as the 60

 

The 60 has more mass and it appears to be made of the same material, the insides of both units appear equally well/badly made. All other things being equal the more massive 60 will sustain more damage. Not only that but the eTrex has rubber on all sides except for the front.

 

I must say that after using the Colorado for a while, and really enjoying it, picking up my Vista was a pleasant surprise, however picking up the 60CSx after the Colorado is laughable. It's enough to see that the screen on the Colorado is twice the size of the 60 but it's a fair bit smaller to understand that this unit is way too big for it's screen. It's basically old technology.

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I've got both the 60CSx and the Legend HCx (very similar to the Vista HCx). After using them side by side in the field, I still give the 60csx the performance advantage. While the latest firmware has definitely improved the HCx, it still has problems tracking at low (walking) speeds. Once they fix that, (and I'm very confident that they will) the 60's performance advantage may no longer be noticable. Aside from performance, everything else is more a matter of personal preference. Like others have said, try to get your hands on both and see which you like better.

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@'roadrage64

 

I still give the 60csx the performance advantage.

 

This is just misinformation. 'performance' is a non word unless you indicate which aspect of 'performance' you refer to. The 60 has a performance disadvantage in the following areas: Battery life, screen brightness, weight, size, and ability to not lose a signal. So I'm not sure what aspects of performance you refer to unless you mean...

 

it still has problems tracking at low (walking) speeds.

 

More misinformation. The newbie might be led to believe that you mean at low speeds it has a problem tracking, ie a problem in doing its most important job. But in fact the HCx is at worst equal to the 60 in tracking at low or high speeds. What you mean is that it has trouble calculating low speeds which is not really very important to almost everyone, although it is to some.

 

 

60's performance advantage may no longer be noticable. Aside from performance, everything else is more a matter of personal preference. Like others have said, try to get your hands on both and see which you like better.

 

What is this "performance advantage" of which you speak? You indicate it is something else other than the low speed reading.

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Ordinarily I would agree with those who say it's just a matter of which body style you prefer, but I've been reading a lot of threads about software problems with the HCx lately and needing to update this and that and the other. I'd hold off on purchasing an HCx right now.

 

On the other hand, I've been extremely satisfied with my 60 CSx. I personally think it's the best unit currently on the market. I've noticed when caching in groups that the folks with the 60 CSx usually get to the cache first. I get kudos from many folks about the "good cords" on my hides. The Vista HCx (when they are working correctly) are very close in accuracy to the 60, but in my expereince, the 60 is slightly better. Most people who venture a guess as to why that may be so cite the difference in the atennaes. I'll buy that.

 

I vastly prefer the button lay-out on the 60 body style to the older "eTrex" style of the Vista. I can leave the 60CSx in a car mount and tap the button to get to any control I want. I can do anything on the trail to my 60CSx with one hand--and do, since I carry a trekking pole in the other hand.

 

I used to use a Legend (same body/button layout as the Vista). I had to use two hands to pull up the next cache, to enter watpoints, etc. With so many of the buttons so tiny and one the side, you can't just "push a button"--you have to steady it from the opposite side. Frankly, I used to lov emy little clickstick on the Legend, ut at the end of the day my fingers were sore from using it and pushing those hard little buttons on the side of the unit.

 

I can't vouch for a Vista body, but I've dropped my Legend, I've dropped my 76CS, and I've dropped my 60 CSx. More than once for all of them. None f them were damaged other than minor scuffs. I always put Invisible Shield screen pretectors from ZAGG on my gps units and I rarely keep them in a case of any kind.

 

The rubber gasket around the eTrex style bodies has been known to come off--at one point it seemed like a lot of folks were complaining about that. I really haven't heard a lot of complaints about that lately. (Of course, at the time, a lot of folks were using Garmin Legends and now I think more people use the 60s).

 

You may also want to consider a 76CSx. I've noticed they are selling for about $75 less than the 60CSx right now. They have an even different body style--flat like a TV remote. But like the 60CSx the buttoins you need are all on the front of the unit where you can get to them.

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I may be late in replying to this topic, but here's my unscientific opinion. I own both the 60CSx and the Vista Etrex HCx. Both work well under cover and maintain signal. The HCx is a little more ergonomic, but not enough to influence a purchase decision. The big difference is that the HCx occasionally forgets why we are out in the woods. It seems to need an extra "find geocaches" cycle to get the arrow pointed in the right direction. Yes the compass is off. Also, when you get within say 20-25 feet of the cache coords, it does not seem to be able to hold the arrow steady and let you zero in on the cache. It starts to bounce back and forwards and really can't resolve down to give you ground zero. The 60CSx on the other hand holds a steady arrow and drops you down right on top of the cache. Again, both are good GPS's, but the HCx gets you close to the cache and the 60CSx take you right there. One person's personal experience and not scientific by any means. Peoria Bill :>)

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I'd hold off on purchasing an HCx right now

 

That's just silly advice. What are they going to do buy an inferior unit because it doesn't tell you that you are moving at 1mph even if it's useless knowledge?

 

personally think it's the best unit currently on the market

 

The 60CSx and 10m contours are useless except at the highest magnifications due to the absloutely crap resolution. Unlike the Colorado which can not only display 10m contours in 3D mode with smooth useful resoution, but it can render CN better than a dedicated car unit. How can you seriously call the 60 the best unit on the market.

 

he Vista HCx (when they are working correctly) are very close in accuracy to the 60, but in my expereince, the 60 is slightly better. Most people who venture a guess as to why that may be so cite the difference in the atennaes. I'll buy that.

 

"the vista (when they are working correctly" is a sneaky implication that they rarely work. Why speak this garbage?

 

I vastly prefer the button lay-out on the 60 body style to the older "eTrex" style of the Vista. I can leave the 60CSx in a car mount and tap the button to get to any control I want. I can do anything on the trail to my 60CSx with one hand--and do, since I carry a trekking pole in the other hand.

 

I don't believe you. If there's one thing that everyone (else) agrees on it's that the 60 is not a unit designed to be operated with one hand. Think about it, when you hold a 60 in your hand where does your thumb (the finger mostly used) naturally go. Yep it sits way up near the top of the unit on the right (or left). Hey where are the buttons on the 60, they are way down the bottom. funnily enough the buttons on the HCx are exactly where you want them when you hold the unit securely.

 

I'm particularly curious about your car use of the 60. I'm struggling to imagine what buttons you 'tap', actually 'tap' is not a very good word because that's what you do to a touch screen. You don't 'tap' a 60 button, you press it. Firmly. OK so you're driving along and you need to press a button, which button do you press while driving? The only conceivable button is the tiny 4mm hard to press domed buttons that zoom in and out. And if you are leaning over to press that tiny domed button while driving, then you are a seriously dangerous driver and will likely be responsible for a serious accident.

 

Be truthful you don't reach over an tap any buttons on a 60, if you claim you do then please explain the process and what you are doing.

 

Let's talk about the 'one handed' use of the 60 rocker switch with a separate 'enter' domed button immediately below and to it's right. Now when you are on the move and entering a lot of info like an address or simply typing stuff in, and you do it with one hand then your thumb has to scroll then come off the rocker, move to the 'enter' button, then return to the rocker for the next letter and so on.

 

All intelligently designed rockers like this will have an enter button in the centre, you know it makes sense. Which is why the Colorado went down that route. Even the 76 rocker is better due to it having at least a bit of tactile feedback so you know when you press a number without looking at the display. Which means instead looking at the keyboard and entering numbers, you need to keep checking the display to know you pressed hard enough. The natural result of having no tactile feedback is that one will unconsciously press harder than is necessary to avoid re-pressing.

 

I used to use a Legend (same body/button layout as the Vista). I had to use two hands to pull up the next cache, to enter watpoints, etc. With so many of the buttons so tiny and one the side, you can't just "push a button"--you have to steady it from the opposite side. Frankly, I used to lov emy little clickstick on the Legend, ut at the end of the day my fingers were sore from using it and pushing those hard little buttons on the side of the unit.

 

I think you just put this paragraph in for comic relief. Do you understand the concept of "equal and opposite reaction"? If you want to hit the 'find' button on the etrex, it is right where you thumb is if it's in your left hand and if it's in your right hand you press it with your middle finger. You don't really have to 'steady it from the opposite side' because you are *already holding it in your hand*.

 

The rubber gasket around the eTrex style bodies has been known to come off

 

At last some factual info. Yes, I'm unhappy with the quality of sticky gunk they use on the rubber band. I redid mine with seam sealer.

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Yes the compass is off. Also, when you get within say 20-25 feet of the cache coords, it does not seem to be able to hold the arrow steady and let you zero in on the cache. It starts to bounce back and forwards and really can't resolve down to give you ground zero. The 60CSx on the other hand holds a steady arrow and drops you down right on top of the cache.

 

Sorry, to say it but you are lying. There is no way your 60CSx will drop you on ground zero. There is no consumer hand held anywhere on earth that will do that. And even if you had a magic 60CSx then you'd need to rely on the cache setter to also have a magical gpsr. In fact you should have you gps in your pocket when you are 20 feet from a cache.

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Notice how the HCx pick stick has an 'enter' button in the centre like the Colorado Rock and Roller, you know it makes sense.

 

I own both and use both on my mountain bike, I love the VistaHCX size but the stupid click-stick is unusable when moving. you end up moving/clicking when you don't want to. having a separate enter button & rocker on the 60csx is MUCH better in this scenario.

 

all etrex have very poor rubber over buttons design, I haven't had one last longer than a year before the rubber is loose and glue is oozing out under the battery cover. This last etrex I bought I made sure to not keep in hot car, get wet, or hold in my hand to long but its still starting to see signs of glue under the battery cover/loose rubber.

 

I won't buy another Etrex until Garmin comes up with a better design, the electronics/case are bullet proof but I feel the rubber/glue should hold up much better.

Edited by hogrod
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Yes, I can see your point in the bike example. What sort of stuff do you change while riding? Just curious.

 

Fully agree about the band, it really is a disgrace. Not sure about the not getting it wet bit, but certainly don't leave it in a hot car, but then would you put your gps in the oven? There are plenty of tragic stories of young children who died in a closed car in a very short time.

 

I've had heaps of used etrex and new ones and didn't have any problem till I lent it to a friend and he gave it the oven treatment.

Edited by gallet
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Yes, I can see your point in the bike example. What sort of stuff do you change while riding? Just curious.

 

While riding I may decide to change what waypoint/poi I am going to, but really anything that requires the enter button is useless while moving(at least when mounted in the handlebar mount).

 

What I said about not getting the unit wet to prevent rubber failure, well that's how my first one failed in under 6 months use. I used my VistaCx for about 12hrs in an on and off rain sprinkle, and a few days later I noticed glue was oozing out along the sides. when I say sprinkling rain I think I may have had to wipe off the screen 4-8times all day when the water beads became to much to see though, definitely not allot of water.

 

Because of the way the back cover is water can get under the edge of the cover and sit in right where the rubber is glued to the plastic case. if the rubber is loose at all water will get behind the rubber and speed up the glue failure. I also doesn't help that you are pressing/squeezing the rubber every time you use the buttons on the sides.

Even on brand new Etrexes I have seem small gaps in the rubber if you inspect it under the battery cover along the sides & bottom, I'm sure this is how the water caused my etrex rubber to fail.

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@'roadrage64

 

I still give the 60csx the performance advantage.

 

"This is just misinformation. 'performance' is a non word unless you indicate which aspect of 'performance' you refer to. The 60 has a performance disadvantage in the following areas: Battery life, screen brightness, weight, size, and ability to not lose a signal. So I'm not sure what aspects of performance you refer to unless you mean..."

 

No, this is not just misinformation, this is real world, in the field, side by side usage comparison

 

Battery life: no, they won't last as long as the HCX's, but it also has a larger screen and the battery life is still totally acceptable

 

Screen brighness: not as bright, but still very usable and hasn't been a problem in the last 1 1/2 years of daily usage (driving, hiking, biking, caching)

 

Weight and size: not a measure of performance, but a personal preference

 

Ability to not lose a signal: I've used it for driving, in the woods, in areas with tall buildings, on airplanes, in the back seat of a van with no windows, and the only times I've EVER lost a siganl was in long tunnels (something that any GPS will do, no matter what chipset or antenna it has). I've yet to see it lose a signal when there wasn't a very good reason for it.

 

it still has problems tracking at low (walking) speeds.

 

"More misinformation. The newbie might be led to believe that you mean at low speeds it has a problem tracking, ie a problem in doing its most important job. But in fact the HCx is at worst equal to the 60 in tracking at low or high speeds. What you mean is that it has trouble calculating low speeds which is not really very important to almost everyone, although it is to some."

 

Bad choice of wording on my part. Let me say that at lower walking speeds, the speed indicator drops to zero and the pointer freezes up momentarily, and does it quite often, something I've never had an issue with with the 60CSx. For me, this makes it much less desireable for Geocaching.

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I vastly prefer the button lay-out on the 60 body style to the older "eTrex" style of the Vista. I can leave the 60CSx in a car mount and tap the button to get to any control I want. I can do anything on the trail to my 60CSx with one hand--and do, since I carry a trekking pole in the other hand.

 

I don't believe you. If there's one thing that everyone (else) agrees on it's that the 60 is not a unit designed to be operated with one hand. Think about it, when you hold a 60 in your hand where does your thumb (the finger mostly used) naturally go. Yep it sits way up near the top of the unit on the right (or left). Hey where are the buttons on the 60, they are way down the bottom. funnily enough the buttons on the HCx are exactly where you want them when you hold the unit securely.

 

gallet, I've seen your posts in these threads about the HCx and I know you are a fan. I'm not; I'm a fan of the 60CSx. I'm glad you like your HCx --its a decent unit.

 

I don't know about you, but when I pick up my 60 CSx, my thumb sits right above the word Garmin at the bottom of the screen, my "pinky finger" sits just at the bottom of the unit, and my "pointer finger" rest below the knob on the back of the unit. From there I can move my thumb to reach any of the buttons I need. The unit is secure and I don't have to keep a death grip on it to use it.

 

In fact, one thing I really like about it is I can put it on a longer cord around my neck and just let it hang--it still gets a good signal. The HCx units really need more "face up" holding just like the Legends did because of the way their antennae are made--or at least the few folks I cache with who use the HCx units keep griping about losing their signals if they don't hold them just right.

 

Unlike the Legend body style, the buttons on the 60 (and the 76) don't have to be mashed to smithereens to work--you just "tap" them--you can argue the niceties of using that terminology that way vs reserving it exclusively for touchscreen if you want, but the truth is you have to mash the buttons on the Legend style and you only have to gently push the buttons on the 60 body styles. You can see where the buttons are on the 60 style to push them and you have to hunt for them by feel with the Legend body style.

 

As for the select/enter button in the center of a directional circle, I have mixed feelings about that-- It does seem more convenient--on the other hand, it also makes it easier to accidentally hit enter while scrolling around. I think I prefer it just like it is on the 60.

 

By the way, I have fairly severe carpal tunnel syndrome in both wrists--and the 60CSx causes far less strain than the Legend body style gps units.

 

As for road safety---frankly anything that distracts you from just driving is a hazard. That would be true of the Vista as well as any other unit. When we are out caching, the only time we usually push any button once the unit is in the mount is to say "go to" the next cache. The only other reason I can think of would perhaps to page forward on the directions--naturally one would only do that while stopped so you can read it if you are traveling solo. That's a weak argument on your part anyway--all of those things would just be worse on a Vista.

 

By the way, there is no need to "lean over" to reach the unit if you mount it properly--it should be within reach.

 

As for your insistence there are no problems and issues with the Vista HCx unit right now, a simple scanning of the forums will show thread after thread of queries asking for advice on how to fix software related problems and various performance issues. Yeah, once in a while Garmin seems to have a problem with entire batches of a product--much as I admire them, their production works the same way as anyone else's--sometimes there are issues. That's why I qualified it by saying "right now" I wouldn't recommend it.

 

Weird shut downs, spinning, freezing

freezing maps problems

inaccuracy at low speed

shutting off when hooked to a laptop/computer

rubber gasket coming unglued

there are more but I got bored...

 

Does it occur to you that dozens of people chime in to say "60 CSX" any time the question comes up and only a handful of people offer "Vista HCx"? There may be a reason for that.

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I recently tried a Legend HCx and 60CSx side-by-side and I'm convinced that the HCx is much better for GPS reception in difficult conditions. I was finding that the HCx pointed me straight at the cache and remained nice and steady (and accurate): the CSx was still wavering about, +-10 metres away at the same time. Not bad, but no comparison.

 

I tested the HCx by climbing a zig-zag trail through a steep, densely forested hillside (to a cache, of course), returning by the same route and comparing the tracks on the PC. The outward and return tracks were almost exactly the same. Superb.

 

With batteries lasting twice as long*, and a more compact design, it suits my purposes better than the 60CSx - which looks like a big monster in comparison.

 

Apart from the comparison, I'm often amazed how it locks on to satellites in a city or forest (or indoors) almost instantly.

 

I haven't had the "gummy glue" problem; what is that? Perhaps my unit is a newer model (March 2008?)

 

*The Vista batteries don't last as well as the Legend due to the compass feature, which I didn't want anyway.

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The heated debate as seen here (and in the past and elsewhere) is just an indication, that in general, the two model are really close.

 

I have the Vista Hcx, and frequently hiking with friends and use their 60 CSX purchased before vista hcx came into being, the controls are really quite different style, we do not feel the difference is a deciding factor to choose one over the other, we are adaptive.

 

But generally we do find HCX sensitivity seems a tad better than 60cs in dense foliage in the valley, this conclusion is made with the way I almost always hang my GPS over neck and put it inside the jacket, no need to level it at all as posted before the previous one.

 

But that's also shows an issue with Vista HCX, that the "OK" stick is too sensitive and the button is not lockable, so typically when I take it out , banging inside my jacket has made the GPS map move the point the stick randomly moved to, although I can easily press the page button once to get back to where I am

 

As for build quality, 60 CSX seems to be sturdier, but for general use like us, it does not matter, for heavy use, you never know. see where 60csx private part is in the picture below.

 

For the same price, I'd flip my coin, for the price difference, I'd go with Vista Hcx.

Edited by dualcore
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I don't know about you, but when I pick up my 60 CSx, my thumb sits right above the word Garmin at the bottom of the screen, my "pinky finger" sits just at the bottom of the unit, and my "pointer finger" rest below the knob on the back of the unit. From there I can move my thumb to reach any of the buttons I need. The unit is secure and I don't have to keep a death grip on it to use it.

 

I'm tempted to use a version of the Groucho Marx classic, "who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes"?

 

I'm going to have to see a photo of this, preferably a shot of the natural position where you thumb is under the word garmin etc, then a second photo of your thumb moving from this 'natural postion, to the 'enter button'. Without these two photos I cannot believe you I have to believe my own eyes.

 

In fact, one thing I really like about it is I can put it on a longer cord around my neck and just let it hang--it still gets a good signal. The HCx units really need more "face up" holding just like the Legends did because of the way their antennae are made--or at least the few folks I cache with who use the HCx units keep griping about losing their signals if they don't hold them just right.

 

This is simply not true, the aerial thing is an utter furphy, I've tested them both side by side walking through the bush and I detected no difference holding the HCx upside down around my neck. Which is exactly what I would expect when the HCx can pick up a good signal in side my lounge room with windows far away and only a tiny skylight. But you have it in a nutshell though, the 60CSx *looks better*, 'better' in the sense it looks more manly and macho and a bit like a transceiver, the way it looks it's just gotta be better, if it has a different chip then it must be better. It's a perception that is based on emotion and bad logic. By the way if you let your HCx hang around your neck, as I do, you will appreciate the difference in weight.

 

You can see where the buttons are on the 60 style to push them

 

You *need* to see the buttons on the 60 but, the whole point of putting the eTrex buttons where they are is that you cannot help but let your fingers naturally fall on them and you do not need to look at them to press the correct buttons, as you do on the 60.

 

As for road safety---frankly anything that distracts you from just driving is a hazard. That would be true of the Vista as well as any other unit. When we are out caching, the only time we usually push any button once the unit is in the mount is to say "go to" the next cache. The only other reason I can think of would perhaps to page forward on the directions--naturally one would only do that while stopped so you can read it if you are traveling solo. That's a weak argument on your part anyway--all of those things would just be worse on a Vista.

 

You need to understand the antecedents for this argument. It all starts when someone tries to justify the button layout by saying that you can't get to the buttons of the eTrex in a cradle but the buttons on the 60 are on the front. But as you have finally admitted, we rarely need to press buttons while driving. Personally if using it to navigate while driving I'd have it around my neck or on my lap or on the console and I'd pick it up so I can hold it in front of me and see the road at the same time if I need to.

 

What I'm saying is this, it's fine to prefer the button layout on the 60CSx but it's not right to try and justify the button layout by saying it's better for driving because in the real world it's not an issue as you have said.

 

As for your insistence there are no problems and issues...

 

You know I never said that. In fact I agreed that the gum they use to mount the rubber is a 'disgrace'. Especially as there are excellent alternatives which I've used. But it's not a widespread problem. I think you'll find just as many threads on the 60CSx as the HCx regards to problems. A lot of the HCx threads were about the same anal discussion of the low speed measurement. It's important to some, it's irrelevant to most. Hey if it's really important to someone that they can tell that they are moving at 1mph then sure, get the 60.

 

You links prove nothing, take the first one, so a newbie comes on to the board to say his '99 magellan is da man, and that his geology professor, or whatever said the rocks were the problem, he also does not come back to follow up when someone asks about the map tile boundaries, meanwhile experience users come on and wonder what the problem is. Most issues are like this, millions of newbie threads about imaginary problems.

 

Does it occur to you that dozens of people chime in to say "60 CSX" any time the question comes up and only a handful of people offer "Vista HCx"? There may be a reason for that.

 

Hey does it occur to your that seeing as it was out a year and a half before the HCx it's got a lot more owners, with an emotional attachment I may ad. Most of those who "chime in" are just pushing their own agenda with fake facts, as you have done by trying to pretend the button layout is better for driving while admitting that there's not need to button press while driving. I mean you set it and go.

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I must say I don't need to be told that my unit is unusable with one hand (my left). I've never had any difficulty operating all the 60Csx buttons with one hand. I never used two hands. I think anyone who can touch the base of their pinky with their thumb would be able to do it.

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Count me in as another person who uses his CSx with one hand.

 

gallet...I understand that you like your HCx a lot, but you're not going to make too many friends here by calling them liars and basically dismissing everything they have to say. Many of us here love our CSx's and we wouldn't trade them for anything. I used an older Legend C before I got the CSx and I much prefer the manual operation of the CSx...the buttons *to me* were far less intuitive on that old Legend.

 

Sorry, to say it but you are lying. There is no way your 60CSx will drop you on ground zero. There is no consumer hand held anywhere on earth that will do that. And even if you had a magic 60CSx then you'd need to rely on the cache setter to also have a magical gpsr. In fact you should have you gps in your pocket when you are 20 feet from a cache.

 

Point of order and disagreement. I have placed caches using my CSx to average them and when checking them later in the day I have been brought to ground zero within less than 5 feet. I'd say that's pretty much ground zero. Are you going to call me a liar as well?

 

I cannot comment on the HCx at all since I have not used it and I won't. However, there's a reason why it's still a vastly popular unit. It's patently obvious that many, many people like the form factor and accuracy of the unit and no amount of talk from you will change that.

 

You're starting to sound less fan and more fanboy.

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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Reef Mapper, no one is saying that the 60 is unusable, I'm saying the buttons and placement are not ergonomic. And they aren't. It's a fact. You may like the 60, the buttons may work to your satisfaction, you may have no problems at all with it. But that doesn't change the fact that it is not ergonomic.

 

Just like there is a general impression that the 76 does not have the quad helix because there's no obvious antenna, there is also a general impression that the 60 actually "performs" better than an HCx, meaning it gets better signal, which is not true.

 

Fortunately the 60CSx is now dead. The Colorado has replaced it. It's big like the 60 (not as big) but it has a screen to match so that's OK it's not just big for no reason.

 

Before the H series there was a choice of SirfstarIII or crap reception. A decent choice. But with the H series the main advantage of the 60 was gone in a stroke. But it's back again now with two properly differentiated models, the HCx and the Colorado. Both excellent in their own way.

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A&T, which particular conclusion are you referring to.

 

I am unable to understand your reference to my found cache numbers.

 

My point is...

 

By what working proof do you come to your conclusions? On paper is just that...on paper. Real-world usage is the best determining factor.

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@Arthur & Trillian

 

I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to give my opinion so that it's on record when people search google for opinions.

 

Personally I'd rather deal in facts and let the user decide. For example simply describe the action of the rocker button and let a user make up their mind.

 

Look at the rocker in detail and you will see it doesn't sound great, and the fact that people accept it as it is, does not mean it's been made well.

 

As a prospective buyer I'd want to know it has no tactile feedback. The rocker is spongy, when it triggers there is no way to tell by feel, you have to look at the screen. There is still more travel even after it has engaged, if you don't press it hard enough then it won't register. These are all facts that you cannot disagree with. So seeing as you can't feel the minimum pressure needed to trigger it, you inevitably have to use more pressure than is needed. I suppose one just gets used to using more pressure than normal eventually. I only pick one up occasionally and so I never get used to no feedback.

 

We can look more at the factual mechanical operation of the rocker. It has a concave surface, now this is very puzzling because it pivots in the centre so it must be pressed down on the edges, but your thumb naturally sits in the concave centre. Nothing to argue about there is there. Now when using the 60 your thumb must exert a sideways force. This small sideways movement of the thumb to press down on a button is not efficient, it's simple physics.

 

Now these are all facts. It may also be a 'fact' that a lot of people who own one think it's fine. That's also good. But the reader of this post may give a bit more thought to it and check it for himself. These things are not really obvious in a shop. They are not discovered until it's used for a while.

 

If the 76 rocker was on the 60, it would be an improvment. Not by much though.

 

calling me a fanboy is a bit rich, as I said earlier that the gum they use to stick the band on is a disgrace. Which proves that I'm happy to call a spade a spade.

 

 

"By what working proof do you come to your conclusions? On paper is just that...on paper. Real-world usage is the best determining factor."

 

You did not answer my question, which particular conclusion do you mean? My conclusions are based on real world use.

Edited by gallet
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I'm looking into buying a gps and I was wondering if there is much difference between these two models. The only thing I can really find that the 60csx has as far as specs over the vista hcx is tide tables, which are not important to me. Yet I believe there must be some reason for the price difference so Im asking all of you.

Thanks.

Hi willir6, I too had this same choice last fall as the Colorado models weren't out yet. I went with the Vista HCx and used the money I saved to put into maps, a case and a Kingston 2GB microSD data card.

 

As a "just in case", I picked mine up from REI as they have a very liberal return policy. I use mine most everyday and have never had any type of problem with it as others have reported. It has always preformed flawlessly.

 

I can't comment much on the 60CSx other than I didn't go that route. I went with the lighter, smaller, longer battery life (less expensive to operate), more cost effective unit. From what I understand, it's a good unit and if you get one, you will most likely be pleased with it.

 

BTW, I have Tide Tables on my Vista HCx. The unit does not come out of the box with them, but they are added with the TOPO 2008 maps, BlueChart products or as a free TideTable download that works with the software included with the GPS; MapSource Trip & Waypoint Manager.

 

Download Recommended MapSource US Tides Software

If you do not own a MapSource product which contains tides, but you do own another MapSource product, you can download and install this free MapSource U.S. Tides software. You must already own a MapSource product for this download to work. You can combine tide stations coverage from the Tides product with maps from other MapSource products and upload this to your unit.

Download (5.13 MB)

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The problem is, the majority of what you have presented as "facts" in your posts are more often subjective opinion only.

 

Therefore, you are entitled to your opinion. However, remember that it is merely opinion.

 

Can you point me to what I've called a "fact" that you think is an opinion? So I can test the validity of your statement?

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The problem is, the majority of what you have presented as "facts" in your posts are more often subjective opinion only.

 

Therefore, you are entitled to your opinion. However, remember that it is merely opinion.

 

Can you point me to what I've called a "fact" that you think is an opinion? So I can test the validity of your statement?

 

Pretty much anything you have said before this post. You state (or imply) it as fact when it is not.

 

As I said...fanboy.

 

Answer my question from earlier...I have gotten sub-5 foot readings at ground zero from caches I have planted and went back for to test the accuracy. Are you going to call me a liar when i say that they can be that accurate?

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Pretty much anything you have said before this post. You state (or imply) it as fact when it is not.

 

Is that so. I'm happy to let the reader decide if the Rocker button is concave or it's just opinion. I think this conversation is effectively over.

 

As I said...fanboy.

 

Is that how you respond to a question you can't answer? What have I called a "fact" that is an "opinion"

 

Answer my question from earlier...I have gotten sub-5 foot readings at ground zero from caches I have planted and went back for to test the accuracy. Are you going to call me a liar when i say that they can be that accurate?

 

With respect, it's a stupid question because as far as you know the cache could have been set with an HCx. A cache is not a benchmark. I won't call you a liar, but I will call you illogical.

Edited by gallet
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Answer my question from earlier...I have gotten sub-5 foot readings at ground zero from caches I have planted and went back for to test the accuracy. Are you going to call me a liar when i say that they can be that accurate?

 

With respect, it's a stupid question because as far as you know the cache could have been set with an HCx. A cache is not a benchmark.

 

No...it's not.

 

You said that no GPS can bring you to ground zero. I said they can and do. Let me refresh your memory...

 

Yes the compass is off. Also, when you get within say 20-25 feet of the cache coords, it does not seem to be able to hold the arrow steady and let you zero in on the cache. It starts to bounce back and forwards and really can't resolve down to give you ground zero. The 60CSx on the other hand holds a steady arrow and drops you down right on top of the cache.

 

Sorry, to say it but you are lying. There is no way your 60CSx will drop you on ground zero. There is no consumer hand held anywhere on earth that will do that. And even if you had a magic 60CSx then you'd need to rely on the cache setter to also have a magical gpsr. In fact you should have you gps in your pocket when you are 20 feet from a cache.

 

Again, would you call me a liar when I say that I have been brought to ground zero with my CSx?

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Not calling you a liar, I'm again calling you illogical. You seem to be unable to comprehend the fallacy of your argument.

 

No...it's not.

 

So why do you keep pretending that it is? If a cache is not a benchmark then ground zero is not a point is it. Ground zero is the error margin of the gps of the person who placed the cache. A setter can be out by 10' west and you can be out by 10' east and you will drop on the cache. That doesn't mean you gps is accurate to 1'.

 

Alternatively with the same 10' accuracy of both units you could just as easily be 20' out as 0'.

 

You said that no GPS can bring you to ground zero. I said they can and do. Let me refresh your memory...

 

It's pretty obvious that you will drop onto a cache exactly purely by chance as it is that you will drop 5' or 10' from it. Are you telling me that if two people go out with a 60CSx each they will both drop to the same spot? They might every now and again.

Edited by gallet
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It's patently obvious that you are nothing but an HCx fanboy. You have done nothing but consistently call people out, call them liars and the like without actually debating with FACTS. On paper, there is so little that differentiates the HCx vs. the CSx that your entire point that the HCx is better is pure hogwash.

 

So...be gone, troll.

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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Gee whiz, Fanboy, fanboy, fanboy, now it's "Troll". Then you malign my reasoning because I don't play the cache game. Don't you think that is a bit sad? And don't you think it's a bit funny that you say "without actually debating with FACTS", when I've asked you twice what are the "facts" I've referred to which are actually "opinion" I'm sure you've looked but you can't find them so you call me a troll. Pathetic but funny nevertheless.

Edited by gallet
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Fortunately the 60CSx is now dead. The Colorado has replaced it. It's big like the 60 (not as big) but it has a screen to match so that's OK it's not just big for no reason.

 

No it hasn't. The Colorado is great for US users. It doesn't have anything better than the 60 for my use. All those vaunted topo maps are for a very limited part of the globe. As far as I know it still won't accept the custom maps I make for the 60. It doesn't have a serial port for my active transducer. The 60 continues to be an excellent tool for my work.

Edited by reef mapper
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[ moderators note ]

Back to the corners. You guys need to quit sniping at each other or anyone else in these tones. If it continues you'll be sent to the timeout corner(s) to reflect upon the forum guidelines of mutual respect and courteousness.

 

Please let this thread continue on a positive/productive note. If someone is under your skin, I ask that you please let it go or handle it with the 'report this post' button if a given post is in violation of forum guidelines.

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I don't know about you, but when I pick up my 60 CSx, my thumb sits right above the word Garmin at the bottom of the screen, my "pinky finger" sits just at the bottom of the unit, and my "pointer finger" rest below the knob on the back of the unit. From there I can move my thumb to reach any of the buttons I need. The unit is secure and I don't have to keep a death grip on it to use it.

I'm tempted to use a version of the Groucho Marx classic, "who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes"?

 

I'm going to have to see a photo of this, preferably a shot of the natural position where you thumb is under the word garmin etc, then a second photo of your thumb moving from this 'natural postion, to the 'enter button'. Without these two photos I cannot believe you I have to believe my own eyes.

 

Even better, I have a crappy video for you:

 

video @ youtube

 

This is how I use it (and many others, I belive). And its comfortable and I wouldnt think of using it in any other way.

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?

 

60vid354.jpg

 

Strange. just checked - I have not removed it. used another broswer just in case - its still there.

 

Maybe some temporary error @ youtube ?

If its still not working after a while for you - I'l provide a direct link for mpg

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weird, I tried it in FF and Safari, both of which have never given me any problem with YT. D, link is good, but I'm crashing now. You can pm me the link.

 

This is not a bad idea actually. It would be good to have a similar video of each doing the same typical operations. Would be a lot more useful than all the argy bargy.

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