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Getting permission

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I was just wondering what happens if you don't get permission from the right people and the earthcache gets published anyways? You know how you go into a place and ask if you can do it and the person behind the desk says it's ok but then later maybe someone above them aren't to happy about the idea. Or what about the ones that are along the side of the roads, erratics as a idea. Are they open game since we call them public right of way. Is there ever a reason to shut them down?

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I would always ask to talk to the head person in charge of an area. If it gets approved and then has to be removed it kind sucks for everyone in the long run.

 

As far as road side earth caches go you need to talk to the local state highway super or town highway super.

You can always tell the difference in the winter, state trucks are the ones plowing state roads and the town plows there roads. If it doesn't snow where you are just look to see where the town trucks are working on roads.

Edited by genegene

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If we find that someone has not received the correct permissions...and especially if we are contacted by the correct land manager...then the EC is archived until the fault is corrected.

 

Blatant breaking of the EC guidelines for permissions (or any thing else for that matter) pre or post approval can mean that a person becomes banned from having further EC approved and even have all their exisiting EC archived.

 

We take permission VERY seriously!

 

Geoaware

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Why would you archive the earthcaches that was permitted by the land supervisors or owners? Shouldn't the legit ones stay open?

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If we find that someone has not received the correct permissions...and especially if we are contacted by the correct land manager...then the EC is archived until the fault is corrected.

 

Why would you archive the earthcaches that was permitted by the land supervisors or owners? Shouldn't the legit ones stay open?

 

He said it would be archived if permission has NOT been gained from the correct person. Nothing was said about ones that had gotten correct permission.

 

The only time a earthcache would be archived that had been given prior permission would be in the case if the property was sold or there is a new land manager. Most of the time the earthcache placer doesn't find this out until there is a problem. If there lucky someone will contact them about the change.

 

This is the reason why I am working on a "Approval Form" that IF possible, the land owner/manager can sign. It could help with any problems that might arise in the future on who said it was OK.

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Or what about the ones that are along the side of the roads, erratics as a idea. Are they open game since we call them public right of way. Is there ever a reason to shut them down?

 

When we called on a couple of NY ones along public routes we were told by NYS DOT that permission was not needed on any public thoroughfare PROVIDED it was not a limited use highway that prohibited stopping for anything but emergencies.

 

Rest stop pullover, roadsides, etc were fine because we were not leaving anything behind as is the case for a regular cache.

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When I went to inquire about a earthcache location today at a state park, I received some interesting and positive feedback from the person I talked to in the office.

But basically I was told if the park manager likes the idea of earthcaching, she will talk to the District Manager of all state parks in Western Mass. If he likes the idea of them I will not need permission from the park managers, just him on the locations.

 

I will still want to talk to the local park managers anyways because they might have some other interesting places as well that are within the parks that I might want to look at. Besides its just common courtesy.

Edited by genegene

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When I went to inquire about a earthcache location today at a state park, I received some interesting and positive feedback from the person I talked to in the office.

But basically I was told if the park manager likes the idea of earthcaching, she will talk to the District Manager of all state parks in Western Mass. If he likes the idea of them I will not need permission from the park managers, just him on the locations.

 

I will still want to talk to the local park managers anyways because they might have some other interesting places as well that are within the parks that I might want to look at. Besides its just common courtesy.

 

Most Park Managers are welcoming caching, particularly Earthcaches, they, as stewards of the park must be concerned w/environmental and safety issues. Here in PA one of the major reviews and at times a delay, w/the State Parks is the Endangered Flora and Fauna check. Another common requirement from other parks is staying on the trails or w/in “x” # of feet of the trail.

 

A permitting process, based on the awareness of the location, is becoming common w/many parks.

 

Just be aware of other requirements, and the development of these requirements from public parks.

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When I went to inquire about a earthcache location today at a state park, I received some interesting and positive feedback from the person I talked to in the office.

But basically I was told if the park manager likes the idea of earthcaching, she will talk to the District Manager of all state parks in Western Mass. If he likes the idea of them I will not need permission from the park managers, just him on the locations.

 

I will still want to talk to the local park managers anyways because they might have some other interesting places as well that are within the parks that I might want to look at. Besides its just common courtesy.

 

Most Park Managers are welcoming caching, particularly Earthcaches, they, as stewards of the park must be concerned w/environmental and safety issues. Here in PA one of the major reviews and at times a delay, w/the State Parks is the Endangered Flora and Fauna check. Another common requirement from other parks is staying on the trails or w/in “x” # of feet of the trail.

 

Agreed, Most places I find are already known to most people but the ones that are not known are always the good ones to take people. These places are the ones that will be the most sensitive areas that will definitely need someone to go out with me to, and make the rules to logging it

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As far as road side earth caches go you need to talk to the local state highway super or town highway super.

 

Someone help me understand why you would need permission to put nothing somewhere? I may be ignorant here, but isn't an earthcache virtual?

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As far as road side earth caches go you need to talk to the local state highway super or town highway super.

 

Someone help me understand why you would need permission to put nothing somewhere? I may be ignorant here, but isn't an earthcache virtual?

It has to do with the liability of encouraging individuals to go to a certain location. The location could be hazardous (a blind turn, narrow shoulder, etc). The GSA is a very public entity and needs to think of the legal ramifications of someone getting hurt or breaking the law to get an EarthCache.

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I was just wondering what happens if you don't get permission from the right people and the earthcache gets published anyways? You know how you go into a place and ask if you can do it and the person behind the desk says it's ok but then later maybe someone above them aren't to happy about the idea. Or what about the ones that are along the side of the roads, erratics as a idea. Are they open game since we call them public right of way. Is there ever a reason to shut them down?

 

Finding the correct land manager can be a problem. Authority often overlaps in the public world. Personally you do your best and don't sweat it. At the end of the day you have nothing more than an online guidebook, and permission hasn't been denied for any of the "unauthorized" guidbooks to this and that that abound. People enjogy them, agencies understand they exist and probably have some on their own shelves. Permission is a formality the Earth Cache folks choose to require. It's not actually needed for any location that the public has access too (and it doesn't stop some cool earth features from being in locations the public doesn't have access too - Like the Big Lost River Sinks) because you are already doing things that are allowed.

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As far as road side earth caches go you need to talk to the local state highway super or town highway super.

 

Someone help me understand why you would need permission to put nothing somewhere? I may be ignorant here, but isn't an earthcache virtual?

 

You don't. I had it drilled into my head by TPTB that permission for a virtual is nonsensical. This came up when a virtual with permission was archived at the request of the owner of a virtual with no permission. I tried to use the permission angle as a defence and suggest that permission should decide which of two caches should live. The one with permission is still archived. The other may still be active.

 

That said the earth cache folks have spoken.

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As far as road side earth caches go you need to talk to the local state highway super or town highway super.

 

Someone help me understand why you would need permission to put nothing somewhere? I may be ignorant here, but isn't an earthcache virtual?

 

You don't. I had it drilled into my head by TPTB that permission for a virtual is nonsensical. This came up when a virtual with permission was archived at the request of the owner of a virtual with no permission. I tried to use the permission angle as a defence and suggest that permission should decide which of two caches should live. The one with permission is still archived. The other may still be active.

 

That said the earth cache folks have spoken.

 

I find that fascinating... How does one ask for permission? "Sir, may I tell others about this public place so they can come visit?" Seems silly, no? Some things are clearly public knowledge, such as coordinates to locations. Why on earth would I need permission to tell others the coordinates to a location on the planet? If they were private property, sure, but public places? That seems extremely overzealous to me.

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As far as road side earth caches go you need to talk to the local state highway super or town highway super.

 

Someone help me understand why you would need permission to put nothing somewhere? I may be ignorant here, but isn't an earthcache virtual?

 

You don't. I had it drilled into my head by TPTB that permission for a virtual is nonsensical. This came up when a virtual with permission was archived at the request of the owner of a virtual with no permission. I tried to use the permission angle as a defence and suggest that permission should decide which of two caches should live. The one with permission is still archived. The other may still be active.

 

That said the earth cache folks have spoken.

 

I find that fascinating... How does one ask for permission? "Sir, may I tell others about this public place so they can come visit?" Seems silly, no? Some things are clearly public knowledge, such as coordinates to locations. Why on earth would I need permission to tell others the coordinates to a location on the planet? If they were private property, sure, but public places? That seems extremely overzealous to me.

You forgot " And then can I get explicit written permission to tell them about it" :)

 

I understand liability but three EC's I want to put out can be seen and evaluated from a city sidewalk and have to do with uplift from a fault, which is most easily seen in the deformation of the road more then any park or private land. I don't even have an idea of who to begin to ask.

Edited by AndrewRJ

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Getting persmission can be the hardest part of an Earthcache. Especially ones that can be seen from a roadside. You get so you wonder "Who can I get to say it's allowed?!?!"

 

Thank goodness I've never had that happen. Mine had sometimes MULTIPLE people to ask, but never no one to ask.

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...I find that fascinating... How does one ask for permission? "Sir, may I tell others about this public place so they can come visit?" Seems silly, no? Some things are clearly public knowledge, such as coordinates to locations. Why on earth would I need permission to tell others the coordinates to a location on the planet? If they were private property, sure, but public places? That seems extremely overzealous to me.

 

In that case they spoke with a manager who spoke with their manager who...went up the chain. Back down the chain came permission and the manager helped highlight some aspects to the park that they though would have been of interest. The cache ended up being a collaboration between the parks person and the cacher.

 

It's a valid point to question the need for the permission at all for a reference point on the earth. However I've seen drama's played out in the forums where a publicily accessable location with a not for profit (not 100% sure about that) group's manager went ballistic to think someone made a virtual out of one of their public displays and demanded it be banned all the while allowing folks to visit the site. I'm in the postion of both questioning the need for the permission and seeing the value.

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...I understand liability but three EC's I want to put out can be seen and evaluated from a city sidewalk and have to do with uplift from a fault, which is most easily seen in the deformation of the road more then any park or private land. I don't even have an idea of who to begin to ask.

 

My order of preference. (Biggiest city to smallest).

 

The Assistant Regional Engineer (assuming a huge city) if they don't have one.

The Regional Engineer (big city again) if they don't have one...

The Assistant City Engineer. If they don't have one.

The City Engineer. If they don't have one.

The public works director. If they don't have one.

The City Clerk. If they don't have one.

The Mayor.

 

Checks and Balances can play havoc with the system. The Mayor is subject othe City Council. The Employees are Subject to the Mayor. The City Council subject to voters. The employees are less subject to politial shifts. Permission would not be voted out at the next election.

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When I get down to the local city or even county I usually get very quizzical responses similar to what is being posted by those questioning the permission policy. I even had someone from Los Angeles County get a little frustrated at me and ask "So what do you really want from me?" Some organizations never responded to e-mail or phone calls.

 

I use common sense to determine how much permission to get. Put in the comments the people you attempted to call and thier response. So long as you don't get a "NO", try to submit your EarthCache. My opinion is that the only way an EarthCache should get denied on the permission issue is that no attempt was made, the location is not an obviously public area, or it was specifically denied.

 

I use a variety of on-line and published geologic guides (some published published by the GSA). These guides have driving directions to public locations to view geologic features. Consider that when getting permission.

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...I understand liability but three EC's I want to put out can be seen and evaluated from a city sidewalk and have to do with uplift from a fault, which is most easily seen in the deformation of the road more then any park or private land. I don't even have an idea of who to begin to ask.

 

My order of preference. (Biggiest city to smallest).

 

The Assistant Regional Engineer (assuming a huge city) if they don't have one.

The Regional Engineer (big city again) if they don't have one...

The Assistant City Engineer. If they don't have one.

The City Engineer. If they don't have one.

The public works director. If they don't have one.

The City Clerk. If they don't have one.

The Mayor.

 

Checks and Balances can play havoc with the system. The Mayor is subject othe City Council. The Employees are Subject to the Mayor. The City Council subject to voters. The employees are less subject to politial shifts. Permission would not be voted out at the next election.

Seattle, Wa

 

Great those are some good ideas, now I just have to interupt busy people with trivial questions... I am willing to try despite how irrational it all seems.

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Experience has taught me work form the bottom up. My 1st stop would be the park manager or recreation department. This is the area of day-to-day operations. It seems the higher up you go with a proposal like this the less knowledgeable the people are and they are more resistant to change and new ideas. My guess is they don't want to have to deal w/it.

Perhaps letting their own staff sell the positive aspects of this may be the better course of action.

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I focus on the Geological Society of America in my description. I tell them that a lesson for geologically-minded folk is being proposed for the site. I offer a few ideas of the sorts of activities that the visitors will be asked to complete.

 

Then I tell them that the proposed site would be listed on a website hosted by the GSA, who posts the lessons for teachers or geologically-minded folk to come and explore. The guidelines for creating a lesson and identifying a site are quite strict; because of that, explicit permission must be obtained for the site to be chosen and the lesson to be listed.

 

edited for clarity

Edited by ATMouse

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Is that being honest with them? Isn't it geocachers who come out for the find. Doesn't geocaching.com promote the eatrhcache? I have found it best to tell them the whole story. They are more at ease when they find out that there is not container left at the location but that the vistors are looking at something and thaking a picture there plus learning something about the spot they are at.

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Is that being honest with them? Isn't it geocachers who come out for the find. Doesn't geocaching.com promote the eatrhcache? I have found it best to tell them the whole story. They are more at ease when they find out that there is not container left at the location but that the vistors are looking at something and thaking a picture there plus learning something about the spot they are at.

 

What is dishonest about it? I don't lie. It is 100% truthful. Trying to explain how geocaching caches are set up and operate and how an Earthcache is set up and operates can be impossible.

 

If the person I'm talking to knows about geocaching I mention it right away, but most of them don't - it gets very confusing and doesn't shed any more light on the request. Their eyes glaze over and they can't follow what I'm talking about.

 

I concentrate on the GSA portion.

Edited by ATMouse

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Is that being honest with them? Isn't it geocachers who come out for the find. Doesn't geocaching.com promote the eatrhcache? I have found it best to tell them the whole story. They are more at ease when they find out that there is not container left at the location but that the vistors are looking at something and thaking a picture there plus learning something about the spot they are at.

No, it isn't just geocachers who visit earthcaches.

 

I use them in my Earth & Space class and my Biology class. The Geology Professors at the local college have been using them as well.

 

My students often use the earthcaches to study types of features we don't have around here. They sometimes convince their parents to visit earthcaches when they go on vacation or when they picnic near one in our area.

 

The local Audobon society has featured area earthcaches on some of their hikes.

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Earth Cache GC19AW1 was blatantly placed on a restricted area of Fort Knox, Kentucky (the kind or area that could get you arrested). The resource manager even contacted the earth caching web site and geocaching.com and nothing happened to the owner of the EC :D . And they are still placing ECs.

 

If we find that someone has not received the correct permissions...and especially if we are contacted by the correct land manager...then the EC is archived until the fault is corrected.

 

Blatant breaking of the EC guidelines for permissions (or any thing else for that matter) pre or post approval can mean that a person becomes banned from having further EC approved and even have all their exisiting EC archived.

 

We take permission VERY seriously!

 

Geoaware

Edited by Cav Scout

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Earth Cache GC19AW1 was blatantly placed on a restricted area of Fort Knox, Kentucky (the kind or area that could get you arrested). The resource manager even contacted the earth caching web site and geocaching.com and nothing happened to the owner of the EC B) . And they are still placing ECs.

 

If we find that someone has not received the correct permissions...and especially if we are contacted by the correct land manager...then the EC is archived until the fault is corrected.

 

Blatant breaking of the EC guidelines for permissions (or any thing else for that matter) pre or post approval can mean that a person becomes banned from having further EC approved and even have all their exisiting EC archived.

 

We take permission VERY seriously!

 

Geoaware

 

Isn't that the same reason why geoware banned you for? :ph34r:

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Earth Cache GC19AW1 was blatantly placed on a restricted area of Fort Knox, Kentucky (the kind or area that could get you arrested). The resource manager even contacted the earth caching web site and geocaching.com and nothing happened to the owner of the EC :ph34r: . And they are still placing ECs.

 

Humm.... 23 caches and 1 EarthCache within the boundaries of Fort Knox property. Does that mean we need to go and archive all the Geocaches and ban there placers as well.

 

Cav Scout: I'm not privy to the details of what is going on between you and Geoaware, but it seams like this is between you and him/her. Have you tried to contact him directly and talk about the issues that the two of you have. The EarthCache forums were not set up to argue about someone being banned from placing anymore EarthCaches.

 

I requested this forum to be added to help people set up EarthCaches not fight about them.

 

 

EarthCaches are under different rules then geocaches.

The bottom line is "YOU NEED PERMISION FOR EVERY EARTHCACHE"

If no one can direct you to the right person and you just keep going around in circles on the permission (road side earthcaches), then go to a Town or City board meeting and ask them, explain what EarthCaching is and tell them what you want to do. If they say its ok then let them know that you need written permission and ask if they wouldn't mind putting it in writing. Also explain that there will not be an influx of people to that location as to stop or slow the flow of traffic. There might be 10 people a month +-10.

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Earth Cache GC19AW1 was blatantly placed on a restricted area of Fort Knox, Kentucky (the kind or area that could get you arrested). The resource manager even contacted the earth caching web site and geocaching.com and nothing happened to the owner of the EC :laughing: . And they are still placing ECs.

 

Humm.... 23 caches and 1 EarthCache within the boundaries of Fort Knox property. Does that mean we need to go and archive all the Geocaches and ban there placers as well.

 

Cav Scout: I'm not privy to the details of what is going on between you and Geoaware, but it seams like this is between you and him/her. Have you tried to contact him directly and talk about the issues that the two of you have. The EarthCache forums were not set up to argue about someone being banned from placing anymore EarthCaches.

 

I requested this forum to be added to help people set up EarthCaches not fight about them.

 

 

EarthCaches are under different rules then geocaches.

The bottom line is "YOU NEED PERMISION FOR EVERY EARTHCACHE"

If no one can direct you to the right person and you just keep going around in circles on the permission (road side earthcaches), then go to a Town or City board meeting and ask them, explain what EarthCaching is and tell them what you want to do. If they say its ok then let them know that you need written permission and ask if they wouldn't mind putting it in writing. Also explain that there will not be an influx of people to that location as to stop or slow the flow of traffic. There might be 10 people a month +-10.

 

GeneGene, how many EC's do you own and what are your credentials? you got a dog in this hunt?

Sounds like cavscout has an issue with geoaware much bigger than what's being discussed here

and why is he trying to drag everyone down with him? cavscout? looks like you were the first

finder on the Ft knox cache and you knew it was reported. did you report it yourself? rat it out after you found it?

 

I see the owners profile. I see his ec's. He's spent some heavy time on a keyboard designing those pages.

No sloppy stuff there, plus he owns over 270 geocaches and 8,000 finds. he's an ec master. i say we drag him out and blatantly hang him. hang cavscout, too. yeah, that'll make us a proud organization that EVERYONE will want to belong to!

 

Or maybe not. You collectively sound like a bunch of ninth graders.

 

I can't even get permission from the right guy to get a pothole in front of my house filled. BUt If I call the city desk and ask about gee-o-ca$hing or earth-ca$hing, they'll put me right through to the ca$he desk, right? Well, WRONG-O! They've never heard of it!!

 

What has gsa done to project the image of earthcaching to cities and school systems? What have they dome to pave the way for those who place caches? Nothing? Nothing at all? The placer of an Ecache must educate those upstream before he can enlighten those downstream? Is that the case?

 

It may be good for geaware to publish their MISSION STATEMENT and explain a bit about their own organization. Before I want to take the chance of getting my named smeared as cavscout did I want to

know more about this group. Getting permission from some bureaucratic desk jockey who won't be there after an administration change is W-A-Y to risky for me to put my good name on. For GEOAWARE to even SAY they will ban someone should serve notice that personalities and politics are at play here and what's good today may be evil tomorrow.

 

Anyway, that's my $.02 worth. I'm going caching. You all can have the play pen back.

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I don't know what bugs me the most. At least when I have something to say, I use my own account and not a puppet account. I come here to say what I feel I need to and not to do it under another name as to not be worried that I made the big guys mad and that they won't publish another one of my caches. If you can't say it here then where can you say it. We all make mistakes and learn from them so maybe some should stop hiding behind a puppet account. If you say something here that you feel is wrong and they hold it against you, then they too are in the wrong.

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GeneGene, how many EC's do you own and what are your credentials? you got a dog in this hunt?

 

You collectively sound like a bunch of ninth graders.

 

I don't know what bugs me the most. At least when I have something to say, I use my own account and not a puppet account. I come here to say what I feel I need to and not to do it under another name as to not be worried that I made the big guys mad and that they won't publish another one of my caches. If you can't say it here then where can you say it. We all make mistakes and learn from them so maybe some should stop hiding behind a puppet account. If you say something here that you feel is wrong and they hold it against you, then they too are in the wrong.

 

How many EC's do I own? What are my credentials? Do I have a dog? Ninth Grader?

 

First of all, What does that have to do with getting permission? but since you asked:

 

No one owns an EarthCache, you can not own something like that, you can have an Earthcache published and then say I have published X amount of earthcaches.

I will be publishing a lot of them as soon as I get the permission from the park rangers. 4 waiting approval from the appropriate people and about 10 that I will work on in the future as soon as I have more info

 

Apparently mine are about as good as yours or better since you wont post in your main geocacher user name.

 

No, I do not have a dog. Use to though, A Red Tic Hound and Tennessee Walker Hound mix, unfortunately I needed to find a better home for him since we did not trust him 100% around our newborn son. I'm sure he would not have hurt him but I was not 100% sure of it.

 

A ninth grader hides behind a fake name to talk like that.

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My, my. Everyone and his brother seem to be airing dirty laundry here. I dropped in because I was getting a whiff of sock. My nose has superpowers and can sense this from miles away.

 

It seems that the new forum got set up without first being thoroughly washed with bleach. I am sorry for the oversight.

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Yahhh, Captain Clorox is on the scene now. Wonder what will come out in the rinse?

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GeneGene, how many EC's do you own and what are your credentials? you got a dog in this hunt?

 

You collectively sound like a bunch of ninth graders.

 

I don't know what bugs me the most. At least when I have something to say, I use my own account and not a puppet account. I come here to say what I feel I need to and not to do it under another name as to not be worried that I made the big guys mad and that they won't publish another one of my caches. If you can't say it here then where can you say it. We all make mistakes and learn from them so maybe some should stop hiding behind a puppet account. If you say something here that you feel is wrong and they hold it against you, then they too are in the wrong.

 

How many EC's do I own? What are my credentials? Do I have a dog? Ninth Grader?

 

First of all, What does that have to do with getting permission? but since you asked:

 

No one owns an EarthCache, you can not own something like that, you can have an Earthcache published and then say I have published X amount of earthcaches.

I will be publishing a lot of them as soon as I get the permission from the park rangers. 4 waiting approval from the appropriate people and about 10 that I will work on in the future as soon as I have more info

 

Apparently mine are about as good as yours or better since you wont post in your main geocacher user name.

 

No, I do not have a dog. Use to though, A Red Tic Hound and Tennessee Walker Hound mix, unfortunately I needed to find a better home for him since we did not trust him 100% around our newborn son. I'm sure he would not have hurt him but I was not 100% sure of it.

 

A ninth grader hides behind a fake name to talk like that.

 

So I asked one question, got fourteen answers and the bottom line is....ZERO. You DO NOT OWN, HOST, DEVELOP or otherwise PARTICIPATE in any EDUCATIONAL, INFORMATIVE and/or INTERESTING EC's, yet here you are thumping your personal rule book and telling others how it should be?

 

Sooo, what's up with the PARK RANGERS? Not doing their jobs? You have four waiting approval and ten more you're working on. Let's see, (tap, tap...tap), that's still ZERO.

 

Well, I have six on the drawing board, four submiTTed to the Millerburg Org for permissions and 16 in my head as ideas. NO, WAIT! Now make that 18 (just thought of two more). So now I don't have 28. That's 14 more than you don't have.

 

I win. So why don't you just lurk for a bit until we see what's happening with CS. I want him reinstated. He sems to be a significant contributor and let's not forget, he didn't make the EC, God did (unless we're dealing with geo-BIG-BANG). CS just showed us where they are. And they're still going to be there even if he's not.

 

I'd rather he was, because if you and I have to wait on each other to log some EC's we'll never get that white beginners pin, now will we?? :)

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My, my. Everyone and his brother seem to be airing dirty laundry here. I dropped in because I was getting a whiff of sock. My nose has superpowers and can sense this from miles away.

 

It seems that the new forum got set up without first being thoroughly washed with bleach. I am sorry for the oversight.

Oh, another mystery person.

Edited by The Coin Dropping Fairy

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My profound thanks to the vigilant Captain Clorox for dropping a dime on the activities taking place in this thread.

 

I would like to remind participants in this thread of some applicable forum guideline sections:

 

1. Forum courtesy: Please treat Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, fellow community members, and guests on these boards with courtesy and respect. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they should be treated fairly.

 

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Earth Cache GC19AW1 was blatantly placed on a restricted area of Fort Knox, Kentucky (the kind or area that could get you arrested). The resource manager even contacted the earth caching web site and geocaching.com and nothing happened to the owner of the EC :D . And they are still placing ECs.

 

If we find that someone has not received the correct permissions...and especially if we are contacted by the correct land manager...then the EC is archived until the fault is corrected.

 

Blatant breaking of the EC guidelines for permissions (or any thing else for that matter) pre or post approval can mean that a person becomes banned from having further EC approved and even have all their exisiting EC archived.

 

We take permission VERY seriously!

 

Geoaware

 

Hey CAV SCOUT. I was emailed by many saying I should take a look at this thread. I hadn't been in the forums in years.

 

I'm disappointed that I would come here to read this. Sour grapes.

 

Of all the people who I would never suspect of throwing someone under a bus. And you did, or tried.

 

And it was me. And on an INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC FORUM, too. Man, that really blows.

 

Shakespeare speaks in Hamlet of one 'becoming hoist upon one's own petard'.

 

Hamlet's a good read.

 

Thanks, Geoaware, for what you do.

 

AirRaidFan (ARF!)

Platinum EC Master

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So basically ARF what you are saying is that Cav Scout was ‘blown up by his own bomb’ by making a mistake that he has taken responsibility for and is now being banned from placing Earth Caches . And by him letting others know something that you did against the EC guidelines, and that you are still being allowed to place EC’s is a bad thing? And then you are thanking Geoaware for banning him? do I have this thought out correctly? You forgot to finish this off with ‘Et tu, Brute?’

 

oh, isn’t it your cache that is piggybacking CS’s cache at Cave Hill? :D

 

“Cunning is the art of concealing our own defects, and discovering the weaknesses of others.” William Hazlitt

 

But words are things, and a small drop of ink, falling like dew, upon a thought, produces that which makes thousands, perhaps millions, think. Lord Byron

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If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts.... Albert Einstein

 

Another sock...

 

thanks for your infinite wisdom.

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So basically ARF what you are saying is that Cav Scout was ‘blown up by his own bomb’ by making a mistake that he has taken responsibility for and is now being banned from placing Earth Caches . And by him letting others know something that you did against the EC guidelines, and that you are still being allowed to place EC’s is a bad thing? And then you are thanking Geoaware for banning him? do I have this thought out correctly? You forgot to finish this off with ‘Et tu, Brute?’...

 

A couple of thoughts.

Cav Scout has done nothing more than point out a potential problem. Neither you nor Cav Scout are the persons who can, or should look into it. Until others look into it, it's too soon to be lynching someon for an alledged issue.

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...You DO NOT OWN, HOST, DEVELOP or otherwise PARTICIPATE in any EDUCATIONAL, INFORMATIVE and/or INTERESTING EC's, yet here you are thumping your personal rule book and telling others how it should be?...

 

Oddly neither do I and I've probably forgotten more than most amateur EC enthusiasts ever knew. I don't hold that against them. My first EC was in place before the catagory was even invented. :D

Edited by Renegade Knight

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So basically ARF what you are saying is that Cav Scout was ‘blown up by his own bomb’ by making a mistake that he has taken responsibility for and is now being banned from placing Earth Caches . And by him letting others know something that you did against the EC guidelines, and that you are still being allowed to place EC’s is a bad thing? And then you are thanking Geoaware for banning him? do I have this thought out correctly? You forgot to finish this off with ‘Et tu, Brute?’...

 

A couple of thoughts.

Cav Scout has done nothing more than point out a potential problem. Neither you nor Cav Scout are the persons who can, or should look into it. Until others look into it, it's too soon to be lynching someon for an alledged issue.

 

FIXED BELOW

 

So basically ARF what you are saying is that Cav Scout was ‘blown up by his own bomb’ by making a mistake that he has taken responsibility for and is now being banned from placing Earth Caches . And by him letting others know something that you did against the EC guidelines, and that you are still being allowed to place EC’s is a bad thing? And then you are thanking Geoaware for banning him? do I have this thought out correctly? You forgot to finish this off with ‘Et tu, Brute?’...

 

A couple of thoughts.

You, Cav Scout, have done nothing more than point out a potential problem. You are not the person who can, or should look into it. Until others look into it, it's too soon to be lynching someone for an alledged issue.

Edited by cirrus142

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I'll chime in on this thread just to say that the only thing stopping me from hiding an earthcache is the "permission" rule.

 

There's a neat park in a town near my home that's owned by the town borough. There's a "boiling" spring (so named because the water is forces from the ground with such pressure that it appears to boil) in the park. There are paved pathways around the spring that anyone is free to walk on any hour of the day. They're free to ride bikes there, they're free to walk their dogs there, they can play Frisbee there, they can picnic there, and there have been real geocaches hidden there.

 

The only thing anyone needs to ask permission for is to "hide" an earthcache there. WHY? All an earthcache is is a set of coordinates posted on a web site. Why do I need to 1) figure out who's in charge of the property that's PUBLIC land regardless, 2) schedule time to talk to them to explain eartchcaching, 3) get EXPLICIT permission from them to mark a waypoint on this public property, and 4) prove to some web site administrator that I jumped through all the above hoops?

 

I go caching for FUN. Doing paperwork, meetings, explanations, and unnecessary procedures to have a waypoint published on a web site isn't what I consider fun. So nope, I won't be publishing the earthcache as I originally intended. I'll let someone else go through the hassle. I realize there are places on some pubic land where those in charge don't want the public at large to go... (sounds crazy, but it's true) so permission in those cases might be necessary. Fine. I see that point. That doesn't change the fact that requiring permission where none is necessary for anything else is an annoyance I'm not willing to bother with.

 

I know there are others in my area who submit earthcaches without explicit permission because they know they're on open public land and permission is unnecessary and pointless anyway. I suppose I could do the same and get away with it, but I shouldn't have to "get away" with anything. I disagree with the requirements, therefore I'll refrain from submitting earthcaches.

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The guidelines were not as strict when I set up my first Earthcaches. Are they grandfathered? Or do I need to go get permission for them now?

 

Also, is permission always needed on public land? If you can visit an Earthcache without leaving the highway and you're not in state/national park do you still need permission from someone? Ultimately all land is under the jurisdiction of a government or is privately owned. Or if you can visit it while on a city street, do you need permission from the "City". Who would you even ask?

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The guidelines were not as strict when I set up my first Earthcaches. Are they grandfathered? Or do I need to go get permission for them now?

 

Also, is permission always needed on public land? If you can visit an Earthcache without leaving the highway and you're not in state/national park do you still need permission from someone? Ultimately all land is under the jurisdiction of a government or is privately owned. Or if you can visit it while on a city street, do you need permission from the "City". Who would you even ask?

You're comments reflect a problem that I have with the permission issue. A local town park has a great Earthcache idea in it. There is a published document online that shows that you can visit this spot as long as you stay on the paths. That is the permission. It couldn't be plainer.

 

Yet Earthcaching demands a person AND their phone number. First, the person in public parks doesn't want to do it because they don't have time to take what they perceive to be a silly enquiry. They say, look, we say explicity that you have permission why would anyone call us.

 

Earthcaching is treating all public land as though it has the impact of state/provincial or federal park land. I think they should change their permission requirement from needing a specific person's permission to proof of some sort of permission. Online public use documents should suffice and then you don't have to bother people who are annoyed by what they see as trivial requests.

 

JD

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My last Earthcache had the Sudbury Parks department as the contact number - I seriously doubt the earthcache reviewer called them

 

The contact information is a great way to make people actually think about their placements and what it means to have people walking through the area.

 

If the contact person is an individual rather then a park or reserve, that might raise some alarm bells if I were a reviewer, and i might keep a watch on it, but still wouldnt contact them unless it was deemed necessary

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