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earthcache logging requirements


climbstuff

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How does the community feel about requiring pictures of geocachers and their gpsr's in order to qualify a 'found it' log? Specifically, should the geocacher be required show their face in these photos?

 

There are quite a few reasons why geocachers dislike posting themselves:

1. they prefer to remain anonymous

2. they don't own or carry a digital camera

3. when alone, they don't want to hold a camera out for a self shot

et cetera

 

...and there are a few ways around that:

1. they post a picture of their dog or stuffed animal to represent themselves

2. they post a picture of their hand (holding the gpsr) to represent themselves

3. they don't post a picture at all and expect the CO to approve it

et cetera

 

How do you respond to this? Delete their logs cacoughout... or Let it go...

 

I had an experience with an earthcache owner who decided to delete my (3) logs, because the picture(s) didn't show my face. Those (3) earthcache requirements stated, "post a picture of yourself and your gpsr". I met this requirement with choice number 2 (above) by using my hand and gpsr pictured with the (3) earthcache features. After a couple emails, this earthcache owner edited those cache pages to state, "post a picture of your face and your gpsr". I haven't been that tough with my own listed earthcaches, and was shocked to find my logs were deleted.

 

I don't feel that pictures should be a 'hard requirement'. However, if the community feels otherwise, I could change my earthcache pages to reflect this 'hard requirement'. Thoughts?

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It is not a requirement to post a picture to log an EarthCache and the guidelines actually say that logging a picture alone does not meet the logging requirement.

 

However, as the EarthCache Grand Master, I enjoy seeing pictures of people enjoying EarthCaches (even if that is just their hand)

 

This discussion might be better in the wider forums (and in fact I have read a similar thread)

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For me - if you log one of my cahces, but mention that you had no camera, were alone, or just prefer to not post a pic (hey no problem).

 

What I do have a problem with is that some (maybe being biased here - but it seems the norm that certain Eurpoeans are more prevalent) cachers log one of my caches in a fairly remote part of Africa - but all their other cache logs (including some on the same day) are thousands of miles away in Europe or South America!

Those I take as chancers and delete their logs.

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I think you should post a picture at the site. That is the real proof that you was there. You can get most of the answers for the question just searching the internet and there are plenty of arm chair hunters out there. :(

I prefer the photo. But do not make it essential if the logger explains why they don't have a photo

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This thread recently came up elsewhere... See the thread here.

 

Pictures are not a requirement by GeoAware as far as I know. I require them because we have some locals that are 'all about the numbers' and when one of the group finds a multi/puzzle, they take the rest of the group to the final, skipping the multi. My worry is that the same would be true about earthcaches and if one person went and got the answer, the rest of them would be given the answer and all would log it, most never having been there.

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I think it's a mistake to require posting a picture of the GPSr. What if you are caching with a combined camera/phone/PDA/GPSr? (I'd love not to carry so many gadgets.) If your camera is your GPSr, you don't have a way to take a picture of it.

 

Also, I've ended up with some pictures at virtuals/waymarks that would have been nice pictures of me, except I'm looking goofy holding up my GPSr. :-)

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I do require a photo, but even though I require a GPS and a face, I'm not a stickler. So long as all the requirements put together show me that you've visited the site and maybe learned something, I'm fairly easy about how it all comes together. One thing's for sure . . . no photo, no answers, no online log.

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I do require a photo, but even though I require a GPS and a face, I'm not a stickler. So long as all the requirements put together show me that you've visited the site and maybe learned something, I'm fairly easy about how it all comes together. One thing's for sure . . . no photo, no answers, no online log.

 

Same here with my earthcaches. On one occasion a finder emailed me with all of the correct answers, but they told me that they forgot a camera. Based on his answers, and the fact that the answers can't be "googled, I made an exception to my rule.

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This may be a dumb question - but who really cares?

 

I haven't had the chance yet, but isn't the point of earthcaches to enjoy, experience, and learn something about the spot? I think about something like the Grand Canyon. No amount of pictures or reading about it can replace the experience of standing on the rim and just taking it in. So who does a false post cheat, other than the person who logs it?

 

Maybe I'm missing something here...

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This may be a dumb question - but who really cares?

 

I haven't had the chance yet, but isn't the point of earthcaches to enjoy, experience, and learn something about the spot? I think about something like the Grand Canyon. No amount of pictures or reading about it can replace the experience of standing on the rim and just taking it in. So who does a false post cheat, other than the person who logs it?

 

Maybe I'm missing something here...

 

You might not care but those of us that abide by the requirements of placing an earthcache do. I don't want to see fakers posting logs on my Earthcaches.

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This may be a dumb question - but who really cares?

 

I haven't had the chance yet, but isn't the point of earthcaches to enjoy, experience, and learn something about the spot? I think about something like the Grand Canyon. No amount of pictures or reading about it can replace the experience of standing on the rim and just taking it in. So who does a false post cheat, other than the person who logs it?

 

Maybe I'm missing something here...

 

You might not care but those of us that abide by the requirements of placing an earthcache do. I don't want to see fakers posting logs on my Earthcaches.

 

Sorry, maybe I set the tone wrong with the first line. But really - in the long run, who is cheated by it other than the cheater themselves? (I'm asking these things in all seriousness to try to understand the issue, not trying to start a fight)

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It is against GC.com guidelines to actually say you have to "reconisable" in the photo.

 

Ummm, which guideline is that? Especially since it's a requirement for Webcam caches:

 

WebCam Caches

 

These are caches that use existing web cameras placed by individuals or agencies that monitor various areas like parks or road conditions. The idea is to get yourself in front of the camera to log your visit. The camera must provide a photo detailed enough to identify the cacher.

 

(bolding mine)

 

I think requiring photos is a good thing for Earthcaches to prove that you're really there. I've taken some goofy pictures of myself for caches balancing my GPSr and me in the picture. If I want a "decent" one, I can snap another one for my personal use and not for the logging qualification.

 

And to the question about needed to carry yet another device...look at these caches as ones that require some "special" equipment and plan accordingly.

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My original earthcaches required a picture.

 

But for my last two I ask for a picture but don't make it a requirement. Some of the visitors to my earthcaches don't have a digital camera (or forget it - like me). Others just don't want to have their pictures spread all over any web site.

 

So now I inlcude an optional question for them to answer when they are at the site. Like- What color is the bridge or what exactly is at the posted coords (a no parking sign). Nothing to do with anything subjective, just something to prove they were there.

 

I'm going to convert my remaining caches to the optional picture requirement.

 

Interestingly, most people log with a picture. 31 pics for 34 finds and 57 pics for 77 finds.

 

I too love to see pictures of cachers at my earthcaches!

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

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It is against GC.com guidelines to actually say you have to "reconisable" in the photo.

 

Ummm, which guideline is that? Especially since it's a requirement for Webcam caches:

 

WebCam Caches

 

These are caches that use existing web cameras placed by individuals or agencies that monitor various areas like parks or road conditions. The idea is to get yourself in front of the camera to log your visit. The camera must provide a photo detailed enough to identify the cacher.

 

 

I think you will find that falls into "Grandfathered".

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It is not a requirement to post a picture to log an EarthCache ...

 

My picture logging requirements has caused a lot of grief for some finders, but however its my EC and if the finder don't like my logging requirements then don't do the EC.

 

Who gave you the authority to change rules?

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It is not a requirement to post a picture to log an EarthCache ...

My picture logging requirements has caused a lot of grief for some finders, but however its my EC and if the finder don't like my logging requirements then don't do the EC.

Who gave you the authority to change rules?

 

I believe you are misunderstanding. I think Geoaware is stating one doesn't have to have a picture requirement for an earthcache. That is not saying you can not have that requirement, just that it's not forced on you by the cache type but is a choice of the cache owner. (IE, to log a a webcam one MUST have taken a webcam photo, a letterbox hybrid MUST have a stamp).

 

If anyone wants to make it a requirement, they are allowed. Personally, I think it should be encouraged because answers do get around certain circles.

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How does the community feel about requiring pictures of geocachers and their gpsr's in order to qualify a 'found it' log? Specifically, should the geocacher be required show their face in these photos?

 

 

My understanding of this is that it would be covered under the site Terms of Use.

 

Section 4(k).

 

(k) Collect or store personal data about other Site users.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/termsofuse.aspx

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My picture logging requirements has caused a lot of grief for some finders, but however its my EC and if the finder don't like my logging requirements then don't do the EC.

 

This is my spin on my EC's, as well.

 

I had a finder of one of mine not answer all the required questions. This was before I required a picture on the cache. When I asked him about the missing answer, he told me that he was gonna google the answer, and post it. The problem was, the answer wasn't google-able. So, he flipped me some ^#&$, and I deleted his find.

 

I now require a photo on all of my EC's/

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I do require a photo, but even though I require a GPS and a face, I'm not a stickler. So long as all the requirements put together show me that you've visited the site and maybe learned something, I'm fairly easy about how it all comes together. One thing's for sure . . . no photo, no answers, no online log.

 

Same here with my earthcaches. On one occasion a finder emailed me with all of the correct answers, but they told me that they forgot a camera. Based on his answers, and the fact that the answers can't be "googled, I made an exception to my rule.

When I found EMC's Geology Pop Quiz Earthcache, I forgot to take my camera so I didn't have a picture to post. But I answered all the questions on the pop quiz correctly and most of the questions required that you visited the site to answer correctly. EMC let my find stay. (I didn't think she would delete my find even though I had made her change her log on my Don't Trade Up cache to comply with its requirement).

 

According to EMC I was first person to score 100% on the pop quiz, and I found the cache after TerryDad2 did :unsure:

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It is not a requirement to post a picture to log an EarthCache ...

 

My picture logging requirements has caused a lot of grief for some finders, but however its my EC and if the finder don't like my logging requirements then don't do the EC.

 

Who gave you the authority to change rules?

 

The owner of the cache gives the authority to do it. It's their earthcache so they run it anyway they want to.

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This may be a dumb question - but who really cares?

 

I haven't had the chance yet, but isn't the point of earthcaches to enjoy, experience, and learn something about the spot? I think about something like the Grand Canyon. No amount of pictures or reading about it can replace the experience of standing on the rim and just taking it in. So who does a false post cheat, other than the person who logs it?

 

Maybe I'm missing something here...

 

I bet after you've gone through the process of developing an EarthCache you will understand "who really cares".

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How does the community feel about requiring pictures of geocachers and their gpsr's in order to qualify a 'found it' log? Specifically, should the geocacher be required show their face in these photos?

 

Sorry, maybe I set the tone wrong with the first line. But really - in the long run, who is cheated by it other than the cheater themselves? (I'm asking these things in all seriousness to try to understand the issue, not trying to start a fight)

 

cirrus142:

Having someone Post a picture is completely up to you It is your EarthCache and you make the rules. Here is what it says on the EarthCache.org Guidelines for Submittal page.

 

Logging of EarthCache sites must involve visitors undertaking some educational task that relates to the site. This could involve them measuring or estimating the size of some feature or aspect of the site, collecting and recording some data (such as time of a tidal bore), or searching and sending via e-mail to the developer, some earth-science fact that they find from signage that relates to the site. Developers should try to involve visitors in learning from the site rather than just logging a visit. Logs should show that the visitors have 'learnt' by visiting your EarthCache site. Taking a photograph alone, having visitors sending a word from a sign, or asking people to do Internet research does NOT meet these logging guidelines.

 

It only says that a picture can not be the only thing that you need to do.

I am in the process of setting up one that doesn't require a picture but I am requiring that you send me the location of an unusual rock.

 

6) Tell me where your GPSr says the location of the unusual rock is, with the +- footage.

 

The location coords will be offset from the actual rock by about 100 ft. once you get to the earthcache site you will be able to find it with no problem.

If they want to take pics, that is fine. As long as they do not post the ones that give away any of the questions that I the person to answer.

 

derangedlunatech:

To you it is not a big deal, but to those that have spent a lot of time writing up the listing, going to the site, getting permission, it is a big deal. As you said "the only person it hurts is the person finding it".

As I agree with you, take this scenario in to play.

 

Last year and this year I go around and try to find water fountains that have multiple spouts and then take the next 20 minn counting them and then recounting them. I then look for other stuff that a person needs to count.

I spend about 1-2 hours alone on this process of counting and finding the final location for the cache. Now I need to spend another hour if not more doing all the numbers and figuring out a way to make things add up to the final location. GC15BYT is the first one

If you had done something like this, spent hours setting up it up and then get logs like quick find, easy cache etc. would this lead you to believe that they didn't even try the cache/earthcache and got the answers from someone else?

I personally would find it an insult.

Having a person add a pic is one way to insure that the person did go to the site, and not "cheat" just for a find.

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Change what rules? As the owner I have an option to request a picture as part of the logging requirements.

 

It is not a requirement to post a picture to log an EarthCache ...

 

My picture logging requirements has caused a lot of grief for some finders, but however its my EC and if the finder don't like my logging requirements then don't do the EC.

 

Who gave you the authority to change rules?

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On the earthcache that I put out I purposely did NOT require a photo. Why, you may ask? Well, I have problems with requires a photo. Usually, I forget my camera or it doesn't have power. My phone takes pictures but I have that feature blocked due to cost and someone sending me stuff I didn't want. And even if I remember the camera and take the picture, I usually forget to download it into the computer and then it takes me hours to figure out how to post it. I hate requires a photo.

 

Terri

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I don't really see the problem.

 

Yes, I know, not everyone has a digital camera. Until I bought mine, I used film *gasp* remember that stuff?

 

But, it is no different, IMO, than requiring that people bring items to an EC that they most likely don't have.

 

For example--there is an EC near me that requires you to bring a fair-sized rare earth magnet to do the experiment. I don't have one, so I borrowed a friend's. One of my EC's requires the use of pH paper.

 

If we read enough of the listing to knlow what tools we need, we should have noticed if the owner requires a picture.

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Gleaning information is a requirement of Earthcaches. Requiring a photo is not. It would seem to me that requiring a photo becomes an ALR (addition logging requirement) and therefore changes any cache into a Mystery Cache (unless grandfathered). That is my take on this question. I would have hoped that Earthcaches were above "This is my requirement. If you don't like it, don't try to log my earthcache." I guess not. That is disturbing.

We did eleven earthcaches on our recent Geocaching Invasion of Maine. (Hey! My sister likes earthcaches.) We posted photos wherever required. There were four of us, so this was not difficult to do. But, what does learning something geological have to do with requiring photos? (Not to say that we learnt anything at some of the earthcaches, but that's a different thread.)

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We did eleven earthcaches on our recent Geocaching Invasion of Maine. (Hey! My sister likes earthcaches.) We posted photos wherever required. There were four of us, so this was not difficult to do. But, what does learning something geological have to do with requiring photos? (Not to say that we learnt anything at some of the earthcaches, but that's a different thread.)

Geocachers aren't the only ones who participate in earthcaches in some way.

 

Many outdoor enthusiasts enjoy them, even thought hey do not geocache. Many teachers use them as part of their curriculum. There is even an educator's guide linked to the earthcaching site.

 

I use earthcaches in my curriculum. I teach in southern Indiana. We have extraodinary Silurian and Devonian fossils, some water and glacier features and lots of karst topograhy...

 

...but we don't have ocean beaches, volcano features, etc.

 

I can use the photos people take to "show" my students the kinds of features we don't have here. They learn more than just reading text and they really pay attention to the photos taken by "real people" (not just some image in a text book)--Especially the ones with their own beloved teacher standing next to the folded granite mountain or the hardened lava flow.

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Ah! The requirements were for a photo of me, holding GPS, at the location. Not for a photo of the formation. Here's a nice photo of me at Bad Little Falls Park.

ffb33bd4-b419-4354-9936-f9dc3631fa75.jpg

It shows that I was there. That's about all that it shows. You can see a bit of the falls. Not especially useful for your purposes. Far better ways to show your students formations that they would not encounter than to require a photo of me with my GPS. And you can certainly take your photos and post them. The question is what purpose is served in requiring photos, other than to show that I was there. And that is not required by EarthCaching.

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Ah! The requirements were for a photo of me, holding GPS, at the location. Not for a photo of the formation. Here's a nice photo of me at Bad Little Falls Park.

 

It shows that I was there. That's about all that it shows. You can see a bit of the falls. Not especially useful for your purposes. Far better ways to show your students formations that they would not encounter than to require a photo of me with my GPS. And you can certainly take your photos and post them. The question is what purpose is served in requiring photos, other than to show that I was there. And that is not required by EarthCaching.

Actually, there is quite a bit there I can use in my classroom...but the main point is that it's a photo of a "real" person at the place. I don't think most people really understand how students think these days...They've had slick, glossy stuff put in front of them all their lives. They are not easy to impressed anymore.

 

...but...

 

When they see you, me, and other real people in these places, they recognize the place is a "real" place--not a movie set painted on a screen, not a computer generated image, not a painting from someone's imagination.

 

I teach 14-19 year old kids, and I've had them ask me all kinds of questions about places they see in the earthcache photos. Was I really there? Was it really as big as it looks? Are the lava rocks still hot? Can you watch the water disintegrate the rocks at a waterfall? I don't teach stupid kids either--they just haven't gotten around to wondering some of those things yet. Until the see the "real" photos.

 

Now I'm not saying everyone should require a photo of a person at every earthcache. But I don't see anything wrong with it, either. It's an easy way to prove to the owner you were there --You'd be surprised what you can find in an online search engine, and if you have access to specialized databases (as some of us do) you can find even more. But even more important than that, it's an easy way to make the spot come alive for someone else. Plus it makes a good scrapbook entry for your travels.

 

I appreciate it when people do post photos even if it isn't required. I'll never get to ALL the places--at least let me visit vicariously!

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The biggest issue brought up in my OP concerned the type of photo "required" by a CO.

 

I understand that a CO can require a photo with you and a GPSr in order to PROVE that you were physically at the posted coords. This prevents dishonest logging of the CO's hard work.

 

However, when a CO demands that this picture include a cachers FACE, else their log gets deleted, I completely disagree. I have posted pictures of "myself", represented by just my hand holding a GPSr, the back of my head as I admire the feature in question, and my face with a GPSr. All those options should be legit. If GSA is going to allow CO's to require a picture to log their earthcaches, then they should step in and define this "optional" requirement.

 

...and that's my pitch

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Cool. When you go somewhere and they request a photo ID, do you show them one of your hand? I read a "photo of yourself" as being just that, a picture (face) with who ever finds the EC . Otherwise I would mention a picture of your hand is ok for my ECs.

 

The biggest issue brought up in my OP concerned the type of photo "required" by a CO.

 

I understand that a CO can require a photo with you and a GPSr in order to PROVE that you were physically at the posted coords. This prevents dishonest logging of the CO's hard work.

 

However, when a CO demands that this picture include a cachers FACE, else their log gets deleted, I completely disagree. I have posted pictures of "myself", represented by just my hand holding a GPSr, the back of my head as I admire the feature in question, and my face with a GPSr. All those options should be legit. If GSA is going to allow CO's to require a picture to log their earthcaches, then they should step in and define this "optional" requirement.

 

...and that's my pitch

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