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Benchmark Searching Options...


foxtrot_xray

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So I was idly wondering..

 

Would / Could you use a "benchmark" search engine that offered more options?

 

For example, at the moment we can search by Lat/Lon on GC and NGS, by Designation on GC and NGS, PID on GC and NGS, and so on.

 

Some things that aren't searchable at the moment would be like:

1. PID wildcards (i.e. "A*1123" for AA1123, AB1123, etc.)

2. Marker Type (i.e. DB - Benchmark Disk)

3. Horizontal and Vertical Order

4. Regex matching of Designations

5. Setting agency

6. Stability

7. Monumented (first recovery) date

 

And then, of course, being able to set more than one of these - i.e. Stability "A" *AND* Horizontal First Order.

 

I'm asking because I have to update the Google Earth databases. I have enough room (both Bandwidth and Disk Space) to add fields like those above. It wouldn't be too hard for me to program a front-end search where you can input your criteria, and then get a list of stations back.

 

Would it be useful, tho?

 

(As a note - It would NOT have full description search, unfortunately. The plan would be to just have datasheet data - not the entire sheet. I'd LOVE to be able to do a full-text search, but THAT would be a serious space issue. :) )

Edited by foxtrot_xray
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Interesting. Some of the ones you mentioned can be done other ways. e.g.

1) Regex designation searches can be done in GSAK, after you have downloaded the county (or counties) of interest. I have mulched together the 5 SoCal counties of interest to me, and I do that often. of course, for a whole state or much les the whole country, that is another step up!

2) H or V / data types and stability can be searched on the NGS datasheet search (station name section).

 

Still, the rest you suggested would be new (I think). I'll think some on the other suggestions.

Edited by Klemmer & TeddyBearMama
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2) H or V / data types and stability can be searched on the NGS datasheet search (station name section).

 

That is true - I had forgotten about those 'bottom' options.

 

I guess that my form would allow cross-referencing. (i.e. PIDs that are a marker type of "DZ" (Azimuth Mark Disc) *AND* a 3rd & 2nd Horizontal Order.

 

(However, thinking about it, if a benchmarker is going to use options like that.. you are *way* too anal!) :(

 

Anyone else have any comments? I mean, I know more of you exist. Hell, there's a lot more out there that know more about everything than I do! :)

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NGSREAD already will select:

 

2. Marker Type(s) (either to-include or to-exclude)

3. Horizontal and Vertical Order

5. Setting Agency

7. Monumented Date (specify either upper limit or lower limit or both)

 

from your list, as well as:

 

Latest Recovery Date (specify either upper limit or lower limit or both)

Recovery Type(s) (good, poor, first observed, etc.) (either to include or not-include)

USGS Quad

 

Any combination of the above can be requested, such as:

USGS and USDI marks of types DS, DD, DR, DS, DB monumented after 1920 and before 1950 that have been found in either good or poor condition after 1980 and are in Silver Creek quad.

 

For those PIDs that pass the selection criteria, it will make any or all of: .kml file, .gpx file, PID list in a text file, .html formatted datasheets.

 

Drat, it seems I forgot to include a selection by the latest finding agency (such as GEOCAC). :( That would be sort of amusing. Oh well, back to the compiler. :) Ngsread already does do optional labeling by the latest finding agency, though, with or without the date being part of the label.

 

I don't think searching by Stability would be useful to benchmark hunters or even survey professionals.

Regex matching by Designation would be amusing but I'm not sure about any real value of it. Programs reading a .gpx file will sort by Designation already, but that's not regex of course.

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quote "Some things that aren't searchable at the moment would be like:

1. PID wildcards (i.e. "A*1123" for AA1123, AB1123, etc.)

2. Marker Type (i.e. DB - Benchmark Disk)

3. Horizontal and Vertical Order

4. Regex matching of Designations

5. Setting agency

6. Stability

7. Monumented (first recovery) date"

unquote

 

 

Using GSAK I can search for a specific marker type (based on the types in the Hippo list) - Topo disk, magnetic mark, stainless rod, chiseled marks, towers, masts, etc.

 

I can search the setting types (also from the hippo list) - rock outcrop, culvert headwall, concrete monument (square or round), etc.

 

Setting agency can also be sorted as well as monumented (1st recovery) date and marks along a user defined route .

 

After all that sorting it is a quick and easy download to the GPSr.

 

We try to keep things to a minimum and concentrate more on the actual finding of the benchmarks.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of benchmarkers that will enjoy playing with Google Earth and seeing what is there, but we seldom use that program for planning our benchmark hunting excursions.

 

I'm afraid I have only suggestion for what might encourage us to use such a search feature and that is probably prohibited by GC.com. To be able to do a quick search for benchmarks last logged as "Not Found" / "Destroyed" on GC.com.

 

John

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NGSREAD already will select:

 

2. Marker Type(s) (either to-include or to-exclude)

3. Horizontal and Vertical Order

5. Setting Agency

7. Monumented Date (specify either upper limit or lower limit or both)

[...snip!...]

Drat, it seems I forgot to include a selection by the latest finding agency (such as GEOCAC). :D That would be sort of amusing. Oh well, back to the compiler. :) Ngsread already does do optional labeling by the latest finding agency, though, with or without the date being part of the label.

Heh!

 

Yeaup, actually, I knew your proggy did all that, and that's where I got the idea from! But in your case, you need to have the DAT files handy. My search would have the entire US's at your disposal to search for. (And the results would only be a list of PIDs that match your criteria, so that then you'd have to go get the sheets for your list. (An added benefit would be, for example, being able to search the ENTIRE database for a designation name (similar to GC, but without the 100 limit), and not have to limit it to a state (like NGS does).

 

But, it seems that everyone has a method for finding them, so I won't bother. :( Save me the time and trouble to making the search engine. :)

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I'm afraid I have only suggestion for what might encourage us to use such a search feature and that is probably prohibited by GC.com. To be able to do a quick search for benchmarks last logged as "Not Found" / "Destroyed" on GC.com.

As an aside, I believe you can even do this in GSAK... :(

 

Go to "Search" -> "Filter.." and click on the "Log" tab. There you can set the options..

i.e.:

To find everything with the last log of "did not find":

Log Date: Not Applicable

Logs to Search: Last 1; "Not Found" clicked.

 

Click Search. :)

Edited by foxtrot_xray
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I'm afraid I have only suggestion for what might encourage us to use such a search feature and that is probably prohibited by GC.com. To be able to do a quick search for benchmarks last logged as "Not Found" / "Destroyed" on GC.com.

As an aside, I believe you can even do this in GSAK... :(

 

Go to "Search" -> "Filter.." and click on the "Log" tab. There you can set the options..

i.e.:

To find everything with the last log of "did not find":

Log Date: Not Applicable

Logs to Search: Last 1; "Not Found" clicked.

 

Click Search. :)

 

 

I was referring to the logs on GC.com to know if someone had logged it Not Found/Destroyed on the GC benchmark page.

Since we can't do pocket queries for benchmarks, how do you get the recovery logs from GC into GSAK?

 

John

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I was referring to the logs on GC.com to know if someone had logged it Not Found/Destroyed on the GC benchmark page.

Since we can't do pocket queries for benchmarks, how do you get the recovery logs from GC into GSAK?

John

 

Oooh! My bad, sorry. For that, I don't know. I don't use GC that much, so as far as I'm concerned, it's looooow priority. However, it sounds like a big enough challenge that if enough people were interested, I would try writing a little program to go scrape the logs.. :D

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I seem to remember someone tried that some years ago, and got smacked by Groundspeak. But, things change. I do agree that having the GC logs in GSAK (and Cachemate?) would be pretty useful, but not sure how one could do that....

Yeah, it's been brought up on the GSAK forums a few times. I figure that - if I were to do it (meaning enough people here would care) - then it'd be a delayed thing. I.e. you let it run over-night, run from GSAK, and it'll grab one a minute. Since they do NOT need to be updated daily, or any more than once every two weeks at MOST, and I'm thinking it could be run silently, like from a GSAK macro - so you only updats the oes you want/need.

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I seem to remember someone tried that some years ago, and got smacked by Groundspeak. But, things change. I do agree that having the GC logs in GSAK (and Cachemate?) would be pretty useful, but not sure how one could do that....

Yeah, it's been brought up on the GSAK forums a few times. I figure that - if I were to do it (meaning enough people here would care) - then it'd be a delayed thing. I.e. you let it run over-night, run from GSAK, and it'll grab one a minute. Since they do NOT need to be updated daily, or any more than once every two weeks at MOST, and I'm thinking it could be run silently, like from a GSAK macro - so you only updats the oes you want/need.

 

At 1 page per minute it would take about 33 hours to just do Coconino County, AZ.

 

Rather than try to go this route, perhaps an agreement could be done with GC to "scrape" the "Last" recovery logs once every 3 or 4 weeks at some set time during the slow server use time period.

 

It would be a shame to have GC ban you from the site for violation of TOU/TOS.

 

It would be nice to have that info, but not at your expense!

 

John

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For designing a search from home (or any place you have internet access), one can click on the GC.com link for a mark before searching for it. Presumably one would not be planning to look for 1,000 BMs and would be looking for 10 or so at any one time and the research on GC.com doesn't take much time compared to driving there.

 

In the field (without internet service) then of course, you can't check out GC.com on the fly, and all you have is NGS datasheets. Of course as technology marches on, more an more folks will have phones that can connect to websites unless you're in a really remote area, but then technology marches on for that situation too. :)

 

As far as doing nationwide searches for BMs to look for, most don't have the time and gas money for that kind of scope. :D

Even a whole state, while fun to look at, is pretty overblown. A county (and maybe its surrounding counties) is all one needs for most BM hunting expeditions.

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At 1 page per minute it would take about 33 hours to just do Coconino County, AZ.

True - the thought was that you wouldn't go get a full county at once, instead getting just the ones your interested in, if you haven't already.. :D

 

Rather than try to go this route, perhaps an agreement could be done with GC to "scrape" the "Last" recovery logs once every 3 or 4 weeks at some set time during the slow server use time period.

 

It would be a shame to have GC ban you from the site for violation of TOU/TOS.

 

It would be nice to have that info, but not at your expense!

 

John

Unfortunately, due to prior chats with Groundspeak "tech support", I don't see this ever happening - unless someone here has an 'in'. I tried to get a question answered about a GPX element they have defined, and was given a short curt answer saying I can't have that info. If they were going to go that route, then they'd probably just do it themselves by creating GPX downloads for Benchmarks. :/

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