Suspicious FTF's

[+tec_64]

Something is starting to annoy me in my neck of the woods. The same two or three people keep hiding caches and then their buddies are getting the FTF's right away on their buddies caches. Any "etiquette" or opinions about this practice of artificially ramping-up FTF stats?

 

tec_64

[+briansnat]

How is it artificial? FTF is FTF. There is no rule stating that you can't give your buddies a heads up that you are about to have a cache published. In fact there is no rule that says you can't give your buds the coords before the cache is published. This is just a listing site. How a cache owner chooses to advertise his cache is totally up to him.

[+Confucius' Cat]

It wasn't stated that the "buds" are getting advance information. Perhaps they are just QUICK?

 

Unless your area has very few cachers, I don't buy into "they always get advance info." Not everyone is their "bud." If they are indeed getting advance info, there will be cases when they DON'T... that is your chance.

 

FTFing on advance info is bad form but as Brian said, is quite legal.

 

Just because something is legal does not make it "right."

[+Team GeoBlast]

You are asking this as if FTF is some kind of a sanctioned activity. It's not. There's no such thing as official FTF etiquette, rules, or customs. So your local FTF ring cannot be punished or even really recognized for anything than what it is. Very strange behavior.

 

.

Edited June 17, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+wandering4cache]

Hey, could be worse. I know someone whose FTF page was ripped from the book and another cacher logged the FTF instead. So not only was the FTF removed, the fact that he had visited & logged was also gone. He can describe the out of state car that entered the parking lot as he left. Funny it matches the state the cacher who logged FTF was from.

Edited June 17, 2008 by wandering4cache

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Hey, could be worse. I know someone whose FTF page was ripped from the book and another cacher logged the FTF instead. So not only was the FTF removed, the fact that he had visited & logged was also gone. He can describe the out of state car that entered the parking lot as he left. Funny it matches the state the cacher who logged FTF was from.

You mean you see some kind of problem with this practice? I do it all the time, and, in fact, this is how I got my 1,500 FTFs!

 

 

 

 

[+jtomason]

Of the 3 caches that I have listed as of today, 2 of them were FTF by the same gentleman who was STF on the 3rd. He told me that he would have had FTF on all 3, but one was posted late at night and someone else went out. He is an early morning hunter. My latest cache was published at 7:30pm and he had it logged within 12 hours. I don't know him, he's just good at it.

 

In fact, I was a little miffed that he found it so quick.

[+joranda]

Most of the FTFs in my area are found within minutes after they are published. There is a pretty heavy caching community area here.

[+ChileHead]

My latest cache was published at 7:30pm and he had it logged within 12 hours. I don't know him, he's just good at it.

 

12 hours is a long time for a cache to go unfound around here. Most are found WELL under 1 hour from publication, unless it is a difficult multi or puzzle.

 

Some people post their caches on other sites first, so both members of the other sites have a better shot of FTF. Some people give coords ahead of time for celebration caches such as "golden ammo cans" or the like. Some caches are put out by high school classes and found by the members of the class before it is posted here.

 

Who cares? I fail to see how that changes the fun unless the cache is a crappy parking lot micro and the only redeeming quality of the cache is to add a FTF to somebody's stats.

[+IBcrashen]

Something is starting to annoy me in my neck of the woods. The same two or three people keep hiding caches and then their buddies are getting the FTF's right away on their buddies caches. Any "etiquette" or opinions about this practice of artificially ramping-up FTF stats?

 

FTF are meaningless, self patting on the back stats.

They dont mean squat. They dont make anyone better than any other cacher. Why get upset about

[+Totem Clan]

I'll have to add my "Why worry about it" to the others. The FTF, although a widespread and very entrenched part of the game/hobby, is purely something that exists only in the minds or some cachers. In the long-term view of geocaching it has no bearing on the game/hobby and is as important or meaningless, depending on your point of view, as the twentieth to find or the next to last to find.

 

Don't sweat it. Go caching and have some fun.

[+blb9556]

How is it artificial? FTF is FTF. There is no rule stating that you can't give your buddies a heads up that you are about to have a cache published. In fact there is no rule that says you can't give your buds the coords before the cache is published. This is just a listing site. How a cache owner chooses to advertise his cache is totally up to him.

 

Exactally!! I got my first FTF because I kept checking my email more than I usually do and the owner told me before they were published. Oh yeah it was 2 FTF's.

[Mr.Yuck]

You are asking this as if FTF is some kind of a sanctioned activity. It's not. There's no such thing as official FTF etiquette, rules, or customs. So your local FTF ring cannot be punished or even really recognized for anything than what it is. Very strange behavior.

 

 

Exactly! Not a sanctioned activity. That being said, I'm sure it happens everywhere. It used to happen regularly in my area in '03 and '04 or so, and happened with some newer cachers very recently. I saw it happen when I was the legitimate FTF (not that I care), on a cache 300 miles from my home coords. I'd say it's pretty cheesy, but nothing you can do about it.

[+sbell111]

People complain if a cache owner asks the community to allow a person to log a cache first when it is placed to honor him. The 'solution' given by the complainers was for the cache owner to give the honoree the coords before listing the cache.

 

Cache owners give out the coords before a cache is listed and people complain.

 

People get FTFs with there being no indication that the coords were given out prior to listing and people still complain.

 

People complain no matter what. People need to play the game and stop worrying about everyone else.

Edited June 17, 2008 by sbell111

[+Mopar]

Something is starting to annoy me in my neck of the woods. The same two or three people keep hiding caches and then their buddies are getting the FTF's right away on their buddies caches. Any "etiquette" or opinions about this practice of artificially ramping-up FTF stats?

 

tec_64

I don't get why it even bothers you, unless this isn't your real account?

You've only logged 2 finds this year, and only 25 total in 2.5yrs of caching. I'm not putting down your stats, it just doesn't seem like what this little "FTF clique" does has any bearing on your caching enjoyment. It's not like you are playing the FTF game yourself.

Edited June 17, 2008 by Mopar

[CoyoteRed]

How is it artificial? FTF is FTF. There is no rule stating that you can't give your buddies a heads up that you are about to have a cache published. In fact there is no rule that says you can't give your buds the coords before the cache is published. This is just a listing site. How a cache owner chooses to advertise his cache is totally up to him.

Ditto.

 

FTFing on advance info is bad form but as Brian said, is quite legal.

 

Just because something is legal does not make it "right."

I don't buy it. GC.com is just a listing site. There is nothing wrong--as in "legal" or "form"--to give folks heads up before the listing is published. If I want to give a friend some heads up while some reviewer is off doing real-world stuff instead of sitting at a computer do hobby stuff then that's my prerogative. It's not "bad form" in the least for that friend to act on that information.

[+sbell111]

Hey, could be worse. I know someone whose FTF page was ripped from the book and another cacher logged the FTF instead. So not only was the FTF removed, the fact that he had visited & logged was also gone. He can describe the out of state car that entered the parking lot as he left. Funny it matches the state the cacher who logged FTF was from.

I'm suspicious of this person's story. I find it a little hard to believe that someone would take special note of the license plate of a car that was merely entering a parking lot as they drove away.

[Mr.Yuck]

Hey, could be worse. I know someone whose FTF page was ripped from the book and another cacher logged the FTF instead. So not only was the FTF removed, the fact that he had visited & logged was also gone. He can describe the out of state car that entered the parking lot as he left. Funny it matches the state the cacher who logged FTF was from.

I'm suspicious of this person's story. I find it a little hard to believe that someone would take special note of the license plate of a car that was merely entering a parking lot as they drove away.

 

Makes for great drama though!!

 

By the way, it wasn't too difficult to find the Sudbury FTF Cartel conspirists. Personally, If I was a local, I'd be much more upset that Sudbury just got it's first LPC earlier this month.

[+Voodoo7]

This should almost be linked to the "You know your addicted to geocaching when...." thread. I'm a newbie and certainly hooked but...getting a notice of a new published cache and rushing out to pad your FTF stats? That's a little scary IMO. But, I gues to each his own. I guess what is "exciting" to one is meaningless to another.

[Mr.Yuck]

This should almost be linked to the "You know your addicted to geocaching when...." thread. I'm a newbie and certainly hooked but...getting a notice of a new published cache and rushing out to pad your FTF stats? That's a little scary IMO. But, I gues to each his own. I guess what is "exciting" to one is meaningless to another.

 

I think what is being said is that the FTF'ers are receiving the coordinates before the caches are published. This has come up in these forums numerous times, from cachers in numerous places.

 

As I said two posts above, I've figured out the caches in question. The cachers do state things like "Woohoo, FTF", state the incremented number of their personal FTF's in their cache logs, and that sort of thing, without mentioning being given the coords in advance. If they are in fact getting them in advance, I think this is a pretty cheesy practice. Speaking as someone who couldn't care less about the FTF game. But we don't know for sure if this is what is happening.

[+wapahani]

I'm nothing when it comes to FTF. Big deal I think. I could care less so it doesn't bother me.

 

My cache was known to a buddy for almost a week before it finally got posted. He could have been the FTF, but he wasn't. one of his co-workers and friends was.

I don't care, as long as people enjoy the cache experience!

[+KI4AOA]

I am one who has fell into the FTF game. There was one cacher who got nearly every FTF around. What makes it fun is when there are several people going after it. It is also sad when a cache sits unfound for 2 or 3 days.

 

That being said, don't forget it is just a game! It's not life or death, and the "stats" only have lasting value if they are earned with integrity. This isn't an issue only with geocaching, you'll find it everywhere you look.

 

Take a deep breath. It will be ok. It is not the end.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

Something is starting to annoy me in my neck of the woods. The same two or three people keep hiding caches and then their buddies are getting the FTF's right away on their buddies caches. Any "etiquette" or opinions about this practice of artificially ramping-up FTF stats?

 

tec_64

I've seen this happen a few times, and back when I was chasing FTFs it annoyed me. In fact I am aware of two cachers who lived 30 miles apart, yet seemed to place most of their new caches very close to each other's house. They always got the FTFs on each others caches, and then even maintained those caches for their friend.

 

Like many threads, I notice in this thread many people asking 'why do you care', and stating that FTFs are not sanctioned. Chasing FTFs has become a bit of a game to some cachers, and most FTFers will play by the same rules. These rules don't need to be written down for FTFers to understand and follow them. Those who are not playing by the local rules know they are cheating, and hence try to cover it up.

Edited June 17, 2008 by Cedar Grove Seekers

[+Kit Fox]

Anyone remember the story posted here about the prank pulled on a hardcore FTF hunter? The local group all got together and hatched a plan to dupe the FTF chaser. A new cache was published (with no container) and the local FTF hunter went straight for it. He struck out then DNFed. All the locals involved in the prank logged finds on the non-exisitant cache. Each person mentioned in their log about how easy the find was.

 

The FTF hunter kept trying to find the cache, even going so far as to begging the other finders for hints. The other finders kept the prank alive by not helping him.

 

I found the thread Hoax

 

Hoax Details

[+Voodoo7]

That's awesome! LMAO

[+J-Way]

Hey, could be worse. I know someone whose FTF page was ripped from the book and another cacher logged the FTF instead. So not only was the FTF removed, the fact that he had visited & logged was also gone. He can describe the out of state car that entered the parking lot as he left. Funny it matches the state the cacher who logged FTF was from.

I'm suspicious of this person's story. I find it a little hard to believe that someone would take special note of the license plate of a car that was merely entering a parking lot as they drove away.

Actually, I believed it. I know from my rare attempt at a FTF that I tend to pay extra attention to the people and vehicles around me, just in case they're also after FTF. I've met a few cachers that way On my first ever FTF, I noticed a mini-van aiming for the remote parking spot I had just pulled out of, so I circled the building and drove back. When two guys headed into the woods "following the arrow", I knew they were cachers so I drove back over and chatted with their wives and kids until they called from the trees saying they couldn't find it. They did find it just as I get back to GZ.

 

I'm sure I would notice a vehicle pulling into a trail-head parking lot just as I'm leaving after a FTF, check to see if I know the person (is it a cacher???), and check to see if it's a local vehicle.

Edited June 17, 2008 by J-Way

[+briansnat]

Anyone remember the story posted here about the prank pulled on a hardcore FTF hunter? The local group all got together and hatched a plan to dupe the FTF chaser. A new cache was published (with no container) and the local FTF hunter went straight for it. He struck out then DNFed. All the locals involved in the prank logged finds on the non-exisitant cache. Each person mentioned in their log about how easy the find was.

 

The FTF hunter kept trying to find the cache, even going so far as to begging the other finders for hints. The other finders kept the prank alive by not helping him.

 

I found the thread Hoax

 

Hoax Details

 

I have a pretty good sense of humor, but I'm not so sure I'd find that to be funny if I was the target.

[Clan Riffster]

The same two or three people keep hiding caches and then their buddies are getting the FTF's

Perhaps they have premium memberships, and receive instant notification when a cache gets published?

You should try it.

[+Marcas_Found]

I am one who has fell into the FTF game. There was one cacher who got nearly every FTF around. What makes it fun is when there are several people going after it. It is also sad when a cache sits unfound for 2 or 3 days.

 

That being said, don't forget it is just a game! It's not life or death, and the "stats" only have lasting value if they are earned with integrity. This isn't an issue only with geocaching, you'll find it everywhere you look.

 

Take a deep breath. It will be ok. It is not the end.

 

We are one of the (newer) admitted local FTF hounds in our area. We primarily do it for the thrill of the hunt and the challenge against the other FTFers in our area that we know well. Numerous times, we have met at GZ to hunt together or go on a FTF binge for the newest hides. Its the thrill of the hunt against our friends that we enjoy. It also has an "amazing race-ish" feel to it for us. We are 5 miles from one of the largest NJ state parks and caches are always popping up (which had raised the density issue on the local GC website). When a new cache gets published, we're off in our 4x4 jeep trying to figure out how to get to GZ as we go.

 

The Mrs. and I enjoy caching and enjoy FTFs, thats all the justification I'm worried about.

 

WRT to FTF's, we usually end a group caching event at a local pub. More times than not a CO will give the group coords to a new cache not published and we're off for the last cache of the night. As a rule of thumb, we do not claim FTF rights if it is not published.

 

-galaP-

[+Confucius' Cat]

Who cares? I fail to see how that changes the fun unless the cache is a crappy parking lot micro and the only redeeming quality of the cache is to add a FTF to somebody's stats.

Exactly. But many times the FTF 'race" IS the only redeeming value to a cache.

 

 

FTFing on advance info is bad form but as Brian said, is quite legal.

 

Just because something is legal does not make it "right."

I don't buy it. GC.com is just a listing site. There is nothing wrong--as in "legal" or "form"--to give folks heads up before the listing is published. If I want to give a friend some heads up while some reviewer is off doing real-world stuff instead of sitting at a computer do hobby stuff then that's my prerogative. It's not "bad form" in the least for that friend to act on that information.

True. Not a "rule, not a "law," none of Groundspeak's business as a listing site, your prerogative as the cache owner. But it is nonetheless perceived as "bad form" by many if not most.

 

In any endeavour that is freely offered to the public or a substantial segment thereof "favouritism," whether based on colour of skin, value of portfolio, breeding and pedigree, or just a "bribe" with a glass of beer, is generally considered bad form. It's that "move to the back of the bus" thing that a lot of people fought to abolish and get us past in polite society. It's the artificial "leveling of the playing field" that can only be done by retarding those who are naturally ahead (it is a two-way street).

 

It isn't an Earth shatteringly big deal, but a LOT of people consider it a breath of fresh air to have at least a little "fairness" in this patently unfair world. Therefore they rail against whatever corruption they perceive, no matter how frivolous.

 

I personally believe it is as much "bad form" to boost someone up ahead of others out of mere unmerited favouritism as it is to keep someone down out of bigotry or hatred.

 

i am reminded of an old grade-school line cutting practice (c1960's): The "cool" kids would have their friends "check" behind them as if this made it OK because they weren't going in front of the person in front of them in line. Somehow that made sense to third graders.

[+paleolith]

If indeed the hiders are giving friends an "edge up", then I feel sorry for the hiders. They are missing some of the fun. I did not know in advance who would be FTF on any of the few caches I've hidden, and in all cases I got a pleasant surprise in one way or another by the result. I thought part of the fun was tossing the bouquet out to see who would catch it.

 

Edward

[+tec_64]

Folks,!

 

Thank you all for your replies. Many good points were made. I was basically just trying to get some opinions; and valid opinions were conveyed. Thank you!

 

tec_64

[+ventura_kids]

Around here we let our friends BETA test the cache....just to make sure the coords are good.

The BETA testers do NOT log on the logsheet, nor log the cache as a find (certainly not a ftf) either.

Only After someone grabs the FTF do the BETA testers log a find.

 

Etiquette - how we treat each other

[+busterbabes]

I have a friend that likes to hide tough, long hike caches. He gives me the coords for them and if I happen to be that way before they are published, I find them. I make sure to include in my log that although I am FTF, I won't clain it as FTF as it wasn't published yet, but still a find.

To me caching is about seeing new things, new places and not all about the FTF.

Granted I live in town and will be a FTF hound near home....AFTER A CACHE IS PUBLISHED.

I think a FTF should go to the first finder after a cache is published...except in case of tribute caches. Tribute caches are often placed for a fellow cachers milestone find, and I feel as long as they fairly find it, being given the coords by thier peers, and found before published...they get FTF honors.

Just my 2 cents worth..which isn't much...LOL

Happy Caching!

~Jenni

[+sbell111]

Anyone remember the story posted here about the prank pulled on a hardcore FTF hunter? The local group all got together and hatched a plan to dupe the FTF chaser. A new cache was published (with no container) and the local FTF hunter went straight for it. He struck out then DNFed. All the locals involved in the prank logged finds on the non-exisitant cache. Each person mentioned in their log about how easy the find was.

 

The FTF hunter kept trying to find the cache, even going so far as to begging the other finders for hints. The other finders kept the prank alive by not helping him.

 

I found the thread Hoax

 

Hoax Details

 

I have a pretty good sense of humor, but I'm not so sure I'd find that to be funny if I was the target.

I'm not sure that I would find it funny if I was just some random cacher who wasn't in on the hoax.

[Mr.Yuck]

Anyone remember the story posted here about the prank pulled on a hardcore FTF hunter? The local group all got together and hatched a plan to dupe the FTF chaser. A new cache was published (with no container) and the local FTF hunter went straight for it. He struck out then DNFed. All the locals involved in the prank logged finds on the non-exisitant cache. Each person mentioned in their log about how easy the find was.

 

The FTF hunter kept trying to find the cache, even going so far as to begging the other finders for hints. The other finders kept the prank alive by not helping him.

 

I found the thread Hoax

 

Hoax Details

 

I have a pretty good sense of humor, but I'm not so sure I'd find that to be funny if I was the target.

I'm not sure that I would find it funny if I was just some random cacher who wasn't in on the hoax.

 

I believe it was said that it was 2002, there were very few cachers around, and all the locals were in on it. There was the danger of an out of towner trying it though.

 

The other two hoax caches mentioned in that thread are pretty interesting too. But they were placed by ticked off cachers.

[+sbell111]

Anyone remember the story posted here about the prank pulled on a hardcore FTF hunter? The local group all got together and hatched a plan to dupe the FTF chaser. A new cache was published (with no container) and the local FTF hunter went straight for it. He struck out then DNFed. All the locals involved in the prank logged finds on the non-exisitant cache. Each person mentioned in their log about how easy the find was.

 

The FTF hunter kept trying to find the cache, even going so far as to begging the other finders for hints. The other finders kept the prank alive by not helping him.

 

I found the thread Hoax

 

Hoax Details

I have a pretty good sense of humor, but I'm not so sure I'd find that to be funny if I was the target.

I'm not sure that I would find it funny if I was just some random cacher who wasn't in on the hoax.

I believe it was said that it was 2002, there were very few cachers around, and all the locals were in on it. There was the danger of an out of towner trying it though.

That's really the direction that I was coming from.

 

In 2002, I cached in eight different states. I imagine that there were quite a few other cachers that cached while they traveled. Also, I suspect that every area had (and has) plenty of cachers who weren't on teh local groups email lists.

Edited June 18, 2008 by sbell111

[+briansnat]

If indeed the hiders are giving friends an "edge up", then I feel sorry for the hiders. They are missing some of the fun. I did not know in advance who would be FTF on any of the few caches I've hidden, and in all cases I got a pleasant surprise in one way or another by the result. I thought part of the fun was tossing the bouquet out to see who would catch it.

 

Edward

 

No need to feel sorry for us. I only care that people are finding my caches and the order that they do so is irrelevant to me.

 

I've given out coords in advance on several occasions. In one instance the cache was unpublished, and I knew a group of cachers was going to be in the area where my new one was hidden. Another time I wanted someone to beta test a multi. In another instance a really nice weekend for caching was coming up and I posted the coords in the regional forum because it didn't look like the cache would be published by the weekend. In even another, the cache was listed on another website first, then I listed it here after it had several finds. And a few times I met a cacher on the trail as I was returning from planting it and gave him the coords.

 

All perfectly good reasons to me. Not cheating. not cheesy, not bad form. It's my cache and it's really nobody else's business how I choose to advertise the coordinates.

Edited June 18, 2008 by briansnat

[+baloo&bd]

In any endeavour that is freely offered to the public or a substantial segment thereof "favouritism," whether based on colour of skin, value of portfolio, breeding and pedigree, or just a "bribe" with a glass of beer, is generally considered bad form. It's that "move to the back of the bus" thing that a lot of people fought to abolish and get us past in polite society. It's the artificial "leveling of the playing field" that can only be done by retarding those who are naturally ahead (it is a two-way street).

 

Did the message get cut off right before you equated MOC's to drinking fountains?

 

Sorry, I know it was not your intent, but do you have any idea how offensive it is to equate this non-issue to Rosa Parks?

 

It isn't an Earth shatteringly big deal, but a LOT of people consider it a breath of fresh air to have at least a little "fairness" in this patently unfair world. Therefore they rail against whatever corruption they perceive, no matter how frivolous.

 

There is no injustice, no discrimination of any type, no corruption of any type, no favoritism being given. Everyone is equally able to find the cache.

 

I personally believe it is as much "bad form" to boost someone up ahead of others out of mere unmerited favouritism as it is to keep someone down out of bigotry or hatred.

 

i am reminded of an old grade-school line cutting practice (c1960's): The "cool" kids would have their friends "check" behind them as if this made it OK because they weren't going in front of the person in front of them in line. Somehow that made sense to third graders.

 

That MAY hold water if other cachers were being forced by the hider to wait longer to find the cache, however in many cases, it is simply a matter of waiting for the normal process to run it's course. If it were within the guidelines, I would post the coords in the regional forums as soon as the cache was placed.

 

By this logic, if I decide to sell my house , my car, or my business and mention it to a friend who knows someone interested and I end up selling it to them, I am guilty of discrimination because I did not give the general public a chance at it? Pahleese. Not even bad form.

 

Magellan ran a promotion in my area (maybe others) a few years back that was geared at their customers, potential or existing. For a time period, the only way to get the coords was on their site. After that time, the owners of the caches, many of them on gc.com, were free to list them wherever they chose. Since most met gc.com guidelines, they were listed here. How was that, or for that matter MOC's, bad form?

 

I frequently give out coords while I am waiting for the cache to be published. I find no need to hold up people finding it, or testing it, by the workload of a busy volunteer.

 

There is no prize for finding a cache first, aside form something the hider may place in the cache, there is no monetary award for the most FTFs. It is simply a game within a game created by a cacher to satisfy his or her own desire for competition. Should I choose not to participate in that game, no harm. No foul.

[CoyoteRed]

All perfectly good reasons to me. Not cheating. not cheesy, not bad form. It's my cache and it's really nobody else's business how I choose to advertise the coordinates.

Well said.

[+Confucius' Cat]

It isn't an Earth shatteringly big deal, but a LOT of people consider it a breath of fresh air to have at least a little "fairness" in this patently unfair world. Therefore they rail against whatever corruption they perceive, no matter how frivolous.

 

There is no injustice, no discrimination of any type, no corruption of any type, no favoritism being given. Everyone is equally able to find the cache.

 

That is YOUR perception. Obviously the OP and others perceive differently.

 

There is no prize for finding a cache first, <snip> It is simply a game within a game created by a cacher to satisfy his or her own desire for competition. Should I choose not to participate in that game, no harm. No foul.

It IS however a very popular game and one well known to the caching community.

 

One may choose not to participate in the game, but befouling of the game for others by giving advance notice to friends will still be PERCEIVED as a "foul" by those that DO choose to play the FTF game.

 

True, the cache owner has the RIGHT to spoil the FTF game if heshe wishes. But is it truly "no foul" if one deliberately does something that heshe knows (or should know) will be PERCEIVED as a foul by many people?

 

I suppose it would be OK to loudly say "nice aces" as you walk by a card table and see three of them them in a player's hand... as long as YOU aren't an active participant in the poker game?

[+simpjkee]

I was gonna post my opinions in this thread, but Briansnat already said everything I was going to say and then some. I couldn't have said it better.

[Dinoprophet]

It isn't an Earth shatteringly big deal, but a LOT of people consider it a breath of fresh air to have at least a little "fairness" in this patently unfair world. Therefore they rail against whatever corruption they perceive, no matter how frivolous.

 

There is no injustice, no discrimination of any type, no corruption of any type, no favoritism being given. Everyone is equally able to find the cache.

 

That is YOUR perception. Obviously the OP and others perceive differently.

 

There is no prize for finding a cache first, <snip> It is simply a game within a game created by a cacher to satisfy his or her own desire for competition. Should I choose not to participate in that game, no harm. No foul.

It IS however a very popular game and one well known to the caching community.

 

One may choose not to participate in the game, but befouling of the game for others by giving advance notice to friends will still be PERCEIVED as a "foul" by those that DO choose to play the FTF game.

 

True, the cache owner has the RIGHT to spoil the FTF game if heshe wishes. But is it truly "no foul" if one deliberately does something that heshe knows (or should know) will be PERCEIVED as a foul by many people?

 

I suppose it would be OK to loudly say "nice aces" as you walk by a card table and see three of them them in a player's hand... as long as YOU aren't an active participant in the poker game?

Your analogy implies malicious intent and ignores the fact that the FTF game is built upon another game.

 

It's more like professional sports and fantasy leagues. A coach can be perfectly fine with millions of people playing a game based on what he does, but you can't seriously expect him to change how he plays his game just because this subgame is very popular.

[+ventura_kids]

I was gonna post my opinions in this thread, but Briansnat already said everything I was going to say and then some. I couldn't have said it better.

 

You really need to develop an opinion of your own.

Please change sides if your side has already been presented.

[+wimseyguy]

What is this FTF you are discussing, and why is it so important to some?

[+ventura_kids]

The very moment a geocache is listed on the site, some geocachers just HAVE TO be the First To Find it (FTF).

[+RonFisk]

The very moment a geocache is listed on the site, some geocachers just HAVE TO be the First To Find it (FTF).

FTF's are nice, but it's more efficient to follow the Ventura_kids around and grab over 100 caches in a day. Or, better yet, ride along with them for the workout...

Edited June 20, 2008 by RonFisk

[+infiniteMPG]

FTF's are nice, but it's more efficient to follow the Ventura_kids around and grab over 100 caches in a day. Or, better yet, ride along with them for the workout...

A FTF is kind of like a craving for something you really want to eat but don't think about it unless it's within reach. If it's within reach people act like a baseball fans going after that home run ball bouncing in the stands. If it's not convienient or you're busy then it's not a big deal and you figure you'll snag a find later and enjoy the new cache. The issue is when you blast out of the house half dressed and forget to lock the door, you drive a bazillion mph and run a dozen red lights, park half out in the roadway, don't even shut the car engine off and run barefoot thru the woods to snag the FTF then you know you're a true geocacher! Errr... I mean you know you have a problem.

[RedShoesGirl]

...

 

By the way, it wasn't too difficult to find the Sudbury FTF Cartel conspirists. Personally, If I was a local, I'd be much more upset that Sudbury just got it's first LPC earlier this month.

 

what is an LPC, please? not familiar with that term.

 

RSG

[+Kiwi Nomad]

I don't think most people have an issue with a cache placer passing on the cocordinates for an unpublished cache when appropriate. Like some of the examples already given.

 

What I feel the op is saying is there is a group who do it with every cache they publish. They have their own little click and don't care or realise that this may make some of the other locals feel excluded. Others would like a chance to get ftfs as well and feel that they are being denied the opportunity.

 

Now if they all happen to be faster and arn't getting the coordinates before hand then it just means sitting down and working out if there is some way of getting the coordinates faster and being ready to leap at the chance straight away.

 

I have texted other cachers sometimes if I see a new cache published, but I don't do it all the time. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't.

 

I feel the ops frustration, I recommend you vent it to get it out of your system, then move on, start thinking about placing some caches of your own and get enjoyment from seeing who gets ftf.