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geocacher_coza

Do you log your own hides as cache finds?

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I dont know if this is a new trend but lately I have seen some caches logged as finds when that cacher actualy placed that cache.

Here is a log of two of them

This is a very special cache hide for me. CF & I spent quite a while gathering photos and waypoints for this cache. We were also very excited about the final hide and how it all worked out.
Used to have a client and server room in this office park.. Found this area really interesting with lots of buck, rivers, lakes and much much more.. Loved the first waypoint and the final hide.. Hope everyone enjoys this one as much as we did placing it...

What is the use of placing a cache and then claiming a find for it as well??

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Big NO NO by most in the geocaching community I'd say ... What is the use? It's about logging a find ... by logging it you say: I conquered this one!

 

It's the same as not logging a FTF when you are present when another cacher hides a cache ... OK to log a find ... You leave space for the FTF cacher in the logbook and note in your online log that you do not claim a FTF ... !!

 

Happy hunting! :laughing:

Edited by Cape_Guy

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Ja neewat, dit is sommer laf. Aan die ander kant, as dit so kon werk het ek al BAIE meer finds gehad as net die paar ....

 

Miskien moet 'n **** 'n **** maak op mense wat van *************** hou (daarvan hou om hulle *** ****** weer te **** ****)

Edited by Tusk O'2

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Events are permissible, but otherwise a no no. It isn't blocked on GC.com, but it is frowned upon by the community.

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How can you "find" it if you already knew where it was?

 

:laughing: ... and don't get us started on those that find while helping the owner to place.....

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How can you "find" it if you already knew where it was?

 

:laughing: ... and don't get us started on those that find while helping the owner to place.....

 

Ben, dit wat jy daar noem is uncool. Dit is al klaar vir my moeilik om skatte as "gevind" te log terwyl ek weet ek was nie by nie (die keppers Event), al het ek dalk bietjie gehelp ....

 

'n Ou moet darem regtig soek van punt een af, anders kan dit mos nie 'n eervolle find wees nie? Spanne werk anders, almal wat deel is van die span kan seker 'n find log? Al het die een ou heeltyd ge-Amstel en sy vroutjie ge-Find? Hy was darem daar ....

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This thread is an interesting one - especially as far as the hiding/finding aspect goes - and brings up a few moral issues regarding our great sport. What does one do when you are as equally involved in the hiding of a cache as the "owner"? [Geocaching.com only makes provision for ONE name to be logged as the owner.] In these "unsecure" times that we live in it is not always safe to venture out caching alone so caching "teams" are formed. Multiple finds can be logged but not multiple hides. Do I condone this? Let's say that the jury is out on the matter at the moment.

 

I personally have 70 hides that are registered in MY name. I have many more where I have assisted newbies in getting their first hides - often I have done almost everything for them from supplying the containers and goodies to showing them exactly where to place the cache through to personal assistance with logging the hide. Do I want to log this as a hide? No. I am quite happy just to know that I was involved in the hiding of the cache. I have also number of caches that I maintain on behalf of cachers who are not in the area. These I have found subsequent to them being placed and then have taken them on as my own. So have been officially adopted and other not. Obviously the official adoption caches become your own and arte recorded as such.

 

As for a team caching event I think that is a different matter though. Here you are registered as a team and cache as that team for the event. The log is recorded in the team's name and IMHO each registered team member contributes in the hunting and finding of a particular cache equally. I do not have a problem with that.

 

Now, let's look at an aspect of this sport that really riles me no end - that is the logging of Virtual Caches from the chair in front of your computer! :rolleyes: I haven't had a blood pressure pill this morning so I had better just stop typing now!

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I really can't understand how the minds of such people tick! Who are they kidding?

 

Some of you might recall when I was agonising as to whether I should be entitled to claim a find on a cache that I had adopted from another cacher, but which I had not yet found myself, even after a couple of attempts! It started getting ridiculous when I was getting requests from cachers to maintain "my" cache, yet I didn't know where it was myself!

 

Eventually I managed to find it - even then, I felt slightly guilty when I signed the logbook of my own cache. Now, if I felt unjustified guilt in doing so, how can these guys do what they are doing and feel nothing? The mind boggles...

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As for a team caching event I think that is a different matter though. Here you are registered as a team and cache as that team for the event. The log is recorded in the team's name and IMHO each registered team member contributes in the hunting and finding of a particular cache equally. I do not have a problem with that.

I also do not have a problem with a team attending, NOTE I say attending, an event to all log a find. BUT if you part of the team hiding the cache and your name is part as the owner, you should not log that cache as a find.

... and don't get us started on those that find while helping the owner to place.....

IMHO the examples I gave is exactly what happened!

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My view is a definate NO, however now that I need to revisit some of my old caches I placed a few years ago, I think it is just as difficult for me to find them as for other cachers, maybe I must rethink my view point :rolleyes:

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Interesting how one finds one's good name dragged through the mud by other's who don't even have the guts to say their say to the poor "perpetrator" before having a go at them in a public arena.

I am referring to the quote that started up this thread.. which is my log - and there would be about 10 or so of those.

 

Strange how others are so noble when it comes to their own "image" and yet they think it fair to slander other's character and values without giving it a second thought. For the record - I have a very clean conscience about the fact that caches I have logged as found are caches that I actually did find.

 

Maybe the situation about my HTH (helped to hide) logs is kinda my business? Isn't it a personal thing how people choose to log cache finds? Sorry if I missed the clear cut rules somewhere...

I thought this was a personal goal game - not a competition, so what would it matter if I have 10 more finds or not?

 

I am tempted to leave it at that... since I don't have to explain. I've been judged and convicted as BAD with low class ethics before I even realised it was going on.

 

The caches that I was part in hiding for the last event can only be listed (owned) by one geocacher. This means that a cache that was listed by another member of the event team will show up as a 'not yet found' cache in my direct surroundings everytime I request a pocket querie. So to fix the problem, I decided to log finds on them. Nowhere did I claim a FTF or made up a story about "how nice the stroll was and how easy the find was" - which seems to be what the judgemental geo-community would have not had anything to say about - and which would have left my current number of authentic finds in question.

It does seem silly to me to go out with my GPS and run about to actually "find" the cache and write my name in the logbook if I know where it is hidden.

 

There are in fact some caches that were placed for the event, where I was not present when they were placed. Do notice that I have not logged those as finds or HTH's - some day I will hopefully go to find them myself as well.

 

I have had a heavy weekend, I have had 2 hours sleep last night and the work is not done. Forgive me if I come across slightly agitated with having to defend myself in this thread. It shouldn't be necessary, really. But I am offended.

Try to consider others before throwing comments around in future. This game is great, I love it, but the politics - just too much.

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I was asked to edit my post. So here it is!

Interesting how one finds one's good name dragged through the mud by other's who don't even have the guts to say their say to the poor "perpetrator" before having a go at them in a public arena.

I am referring to the quote that started up this thread.. which is my log - and there would be about 10 or so of those.

 

Strange how others are so noble when it comes to their own "image" and yet they think it fair to slander other's character and values without giving it a second thought. For the record - I have a very clean conscience about the fact that caches I have logged as found are caches that I actually did find.

WOW!!! NO names were mentioned, Kindly keep the postings civil and in keeping with the spirit of having an open and interactive discussion.

I only asked a legitimate question and received some answers on that question-- that by the way, all answers to the question say that logging a find on your own hides as being not the correct thing to do. Please read below.

My view is a definate NO
I really can't understand how the minds of such people tick! Who are they kidding?

n Ou moet darem regtig soek van punt een af, anders kan dit mos nie 'n eervolle find wees nie?
and don't get us started on those that find while helping the owner to place.....

How can you "find" it if you already knew where it was?
Events are permissible, but otherwise a no no. It isn't blocked on GC.com, but it is frowned upon by the community.
This means that a cache that was listed by another member of the event team will show up as a 'not yet found' cache in my direct surroundings everytime I request a pocket querie. So to fix the problem, I decided to log finds on them

 

When I do a pocket query I also have a lot of caches that come up as not found! Maybe I should also log them as finds to "solve the problem"

Edited by geocacher_coza

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Wow, you now have one angry ginger kitty on your lap. I think we need to get back to the real question.

 

The answer is that it is not acceptable or common practice to log an own find on your own cache. I only notice one person logging such a find.

 

To me it is also obvious that Ginger do have some exceptions on this rule which in her case could be justifiable in some of her circumstances. These finds do not bother me and I believe that they are done in good faith.

 

However, I do have one question. I have two caches that were found twice. Maybe I should bring this to the open before I get scratched. My first cache was found by me only. My family also wanted to find this. So I brought them to the cache area. My name gerhardoosMPsa is a little bit out of focus. We are actually 3 members into one name. I did not help my family to find this cache but they did find it eventually. We recorded this as a second find. We seen this as a family training cache and a true find was recorded by a cacher name consisting of 3 members. To me this is a find.

 

The other cache in question is one from Hosta. There was a couple of DNF’s on this cache and we searched for it. We eventually found it and we recorded the waypoint after realizing that the published waypoint is not accurate. This was log as a find – find number 1. Later we noticed that the cache was temporarily disabled after another DNF. At this stage the published waypoint was not corrected on the listing. In good faith we wanted to verify if the cache is muggled or not as we were the last ones that recorded a find. Our intentions were good and we also dropped a coin in this cache and we would not like to see a missing coin. We then drove out to this location to help the owner of the cache and the owner of the coin. As we arrived at the site we realized that we only have the published waypoint and not our recorded waypoint of the last find. The problem at this cache is that every stone looks the same. We ended up searching for this cache low and high and it took us nearly 30 minutes to locate the cache again. As a family we discussed this among ourselves and we searched for some guidance and there were no guidelines in a case like this. We then decided to log another find as this was a true search and find – we did not walk to the location and log it. This was one hell of a search mission.

 

There is also another question – there is one cache in the Lowveld where the cache owner stated that dummies must be planted and that the cache can be move to a new location by the next cacher. This will make maintenance very difficult and the cache owner could be searching for it for a while. At one stage he could not find it. Is this not a DNF and a find for the owner if he has to hunt for it? Because the cache location is unique every time he visits it. If a cacher visits this the next time – could he not log a find as the cache is moved around all the time? Is this not an exception on the rule?

 

Gerhard

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Wow, you now have one angry ginger kitty on your lap.

Yep, daar is so paar krap merk, maar ek is darem 'n groot man wat dit kan vat! :(:):D

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I've been reading this thread and a bit nervous to comment, but here are my views:

 

Gerhard: To me there should only be one FOUND IT log per username per cache. All the rest can be comfortably achieved with notes. If you go there again with your family and they find it and you are using the same username, just write a note describing how you came back with your family etc. I regularly write notes to caches if there is something I want to say about it - it keeps the caches alive and active and shows there are folks interested in it.

 

Ginger: I can see your point. As far as I can gather you folks (say A & :( placed caches together, and in the title of the cache A & B are mentioned, but when you click on the combined usernames it goes to one of them (say A) - as the cache was actually listed by A. B does not have the cache on their list of caches hidden, and it comes up on their list of NOT FOUND. Your comment that as B your cache comes up on your NOT FOUND makes a lot of sense. If I were B and I wanted to log it as FOUND to clear my list I would just add in my log something like: "This cache was a combined hide and is listed under A's username. We have logged this as a find to clear my list." In that way you explain what you do and if anybody kicks up a fuss - let them. It is so that it is a personal thing and does not have to be anybody elses business, but most of us do not want to end up doing things that is met with disapproval - makes one feel uneasy.

 

I have logged a find on a micro without signing the log - I could see the micro, but the place was infested with muggles - it's at a popular tourist destination. I do not approve of caches in high muggle zones and do not see the point of going back to retrieve the cache, so I logged it as found stating the above. I feel quite comfortable doing that. I think I have only done that once.

 

I understand your agitation of such personal issues being published on the forums - something similar has happened to me and I did not like it.

 

This game is a constant evolutionary process - the guidelines have changed and been developed over years and I suspect many of the guidelines were formed in response to discussion in the forums. In that sense the forums are an important sounding board of the way the game should be played to suit the community.

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I too am a little nervous to comment. I personally enjoy caching for the fun of finding, the enjoyment of newly found places and the ability to learn (and teach) about the places geocaching takes me to. I am not in it to compete and so subsequently don't care what other cachers do, as long as it doesn't "damage" geocaching as a whole.

Further, I find the geocaching community to be generally be educated and dignified. I find animosity in this community surprising and saddening. Lets not loose focus on what geocaching means to us.

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I really can't understand how the minds of such people tick! Who are they kidding?

 

They're not "kidding" anyone! They're enjoying cachinbg in their own way. I'm just amazed and saddened that folks can get so hung up about the way others choose to enjoy this game :(

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Who are they kidding?

 

They're not "kidding" anyone!

 

Only themselves!

 

You can only kid yourself if you're obsessing about numbers, there are other perfectly valid ways of caching and judging your own progress. If you're using logs as a record of places that you've visited then a log on your own cache serves a very valid personal purpose. We can't judge someone elses personal motives and actions by the narrow set of criteria that we set for ourselves, different people can get very different things out of the same activity. It constantly amazes me how narrow-minded some folks can be about simple things like this.

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Maybe I must give your guys a little bit of insight what is sometimes happening in the geocaching field. This is a rare occasion and not the rule - I hope.

 

Geocaching is a family sport and we do this sport because it gives us pleasure in finding the little boxes and to see the various locations. Most of the caches that I visited brought me to places that I never visited. Some of them give me great pleasure and some brought me a lot of pain and bad memories. Yes, some had me up in arms and unfortunately I have a very quick temper. But at the end of the day when I calmed down I realized that there was a reason for the cache to be planted and that I have to look for the reason. But at the end I do geocaching because I like to do it, the rush of the hunt is something nice and cool. I do number chasing as the second thing and not the first thing. To me this is personal.

 

If one analyzes my logs and finds you will see patterns. I do the maximum finds in the minimum time. I travel in certain directions and certain paths. For example my next target is the ones in MP in the Sabie-Pelgrimsrest area. All these caches are somewhat in a line and it is a guaranteed high number of finds for the day. I do not drive around with a GPS on my dash and try to find them as they pop up. The people that do this method are the ones piling up low numbers with huge distances. You only need to look at the GSAk stats to see if a cacher is efficient or not and to get an idea of how far a cacher must travel to get some numbers behind him. If you live in Gauteng with a lot of caches around you then no planning is probable needed.

 

To get to this goal of the maximum finds in the minimum time a lot of planning is involved. You need to select your cache routes very careful. If you start traveling south and north and then south and north you will loose a lot of time. You need to align your caches with your travel route and direction of travel. To do this I sometimes use the stats of other geocachers. It is easy. With the South African map on the caching stats it is now easier than before. Look at the map of South Africa and if a person has high finds in a certain province then you look at his individual caches for this area. You then find the dates the persons have done these specific caches. You download their caches as waypoints and you pull them into Mapsources and you could see their travel path. With a little bit of patience you can create the same path that they followed for that specific date and number of caches.

 

I do not want to point fingers but I discovered one abnormality while using this method. I once came across persons that have recorded a big number of caches. I pulled the caches as waypoints into Mapsource and I quickly releases that something was terribly wrong. I tried to join the cache in Mapsource in all different patterns but the best time these caches could be done was something like 14 hours. With other words they traveled from cache to cache in 14 hours without search time or any rest or any slack time. I even rechecked the dates and yes all the finds were on one specific day.

 

I then assumed that these guys done some night time caches and I then try to redo the route on mapsource while analyzing the listings for the ones that could be done during the night. During my planning I discovered that the caches were in all directions and I could not understand how this group was getting the high numbers. I also considered the fact that they did visit the caches but on different dates but only declared one date in the logs.

 

However, I discovered the answer very quickly when I visited the caches. I quickly realized that there are two separate hand signs in the log books. I still have my written recording of this on my printed listings. I went home and I studied this and the logs. One of the logs was saying that they were a group. I then understood the high finds. I had proof in my hand that these guys are real bullsh*****s. They spitted in two groups and there was one person in both groups that were signing the logs on behalf of the complete group. I then separated their cache finds in two groups as per signature in the log books and pulled it into Mapsource as two different routes. The two routes made sense and you could clearly see the paths that the two groups were following. I have the proof. I only need to make copies of the log books and the proof will be completed and acceptable as proof. Even a blind man without a stick can see this.

 

These guys got the high numbers and I know who they are and hope that they will be blushing when they see me in person or while reading about this on the forum. One day you will face me - shaking my hand at an event while you have to look me straight into my eyes – you will know that I know. I feel sorry for them because they missed the point of geocaching and soon some of them will get bored. This is the only pattern I picked up and to me it is an exception. It is however a great pity.

 

Let us forget about the logs in question, the keyword is in good faith and I can understand why it was log and it does not bother me at all. This was not done deliberately and the intention was not to commit fraud. There are much bigger things that is happening than this small incident.

 

I know that the cacher who has done these logs is showing interest in geocaching and that they are enjoying it a lot and that they do more good for the sport. The bottom line is that they are enjoying it and does not cause harm to anyone. I dealt with the particular cacher before and I only have a good impression and respect for this person. We must not grab exceptions and hold it up as a weapon against them – it causes more harm than good. We all do things sometimes different but there is a line between good faith and the obvious blatant bull. Sometimes the internet is not good and we sometimes forget that the logs that we place or the words we so easily type down is been read by another person of flesh and blood and that it does sometimes dishonor them or hurt them.

 

The guys that are deliberately doing fraud are the ones that must be caught. It does not bother me that they have the high finds, at the end of the day they robbing themselves from the opportunity to see something knew or to experience something they never done before. This is the guys that will eventually disappear with their high numbers from geocaching.com. The worst person is the one that cheats on himself and who planned to do it this way. At the end they are the ones robbing themselves and the pleasure geocaching can bring to them. A high number of finds will not bring you the world cup.

 

My brother refused to get into the numbers game. I noticed that he is now finding the caches and he is not recording them on the site. There are two recent FTF which he visited in the Western Cape and if you notice the logs you will see that no one is claiming the FTF. I contacted him and he told me that it was found by him. He only uses the waypoint and he will sign the log book but will not record it as such on the net. To me this is also wrong and irritating and it defeats the rules.

 

As we visit the caches in the western province in the next 2 weeks we will read the logbook and if there is an inscription in the logbook that proof that he was there we will then update his profile on his behalf. I am aware of his password. Again, this could also be considered as fraud by certain cachers. But if the log is reflecting his name and date why should I not record this on his behalf. It is most irritating to do a cache as a FTF, just to discover that there is a log inside the cache of days before your visit. I need to know if my fellow cachers will see this as fraud if I complete his logs on the site on his behalf. It will only be done if a log can be found. Inside the logbook His logs were completed months before our intended visit and are among many other visits. It is thus not possible to add in a name between the other cachers.

 

This was my very long 2 cent contribution. Is there anyone still awake? Or am I alone.

 

Gerhard

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I have stayed out of this hot topic but want to add my viewpoint;

 

All of us have done some group caching and while you are looking in all the wrong places someone in the group “found” the cache – all the teams in that group log a “find”. Now the same question…did YOU find the cache? No, but you state in the log you were part of the group, thus the “find” log. (This is now a common acceptable practice in the geocaching community)

 

The same goes for a HTH but now the cache is not under your list of owned caches, thus I see it also as good practice if you log a “find” and stated that you were part of the group (just leave a open space for the FTF name).

 

The idée of geocaching is to have fun and with the SA conditions we have to resort to group caching – with finding and hidden of caches.

 

My 2 cents

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This conversation has been spoken about so many times. Bottom line folks : What you feel comfortable with, you log and do.

 

I'm not going to question your ethics. (I will heckle you TO DEATH though :( ) Same as people who proudly display their numbers on their profiles stating "so-and-so has found 300 caches on 298 unique caches". Translated it means that they too have "broken the sacred rule" and logged a cache twice as a find. So ? Nobody jumping up and down. They felt that in THOSE circumstances another find was justified and will stick with their decision. Another part of the community would have logged a NOTE and will abide by their decision.

 

So what ? In this instance the parties involved agreed on a plan of action, and although a big part of the community will shake their heads in disapproval, others might not. Or could not care less. I think we should adopt the "agree to disagree" principal and get on with it.....

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Sjoe! Ek hoor hoewe dreun soos die manne op die perde spring!

 

I'm very nervous to comment (again). Not because of the issue at hand, but because I've already made ons mistake - don't wana do it again.

 

Hierdie is in my opinie 'n publieke sport en soos Doc te vertel het, "I find the geocaching community to be generally be educated and dignified".

 

Vir die dignified deel sal dit belangrik wees om 'n ware en eerlike beeld vir jou mede spelers te vertoon.

 

As jy in persoonlike hoedanigheid wil deelneem (jou eie plekke besoek ens, ens, ens) is dit nie nodig om dit as "finds" te log nie want dit is persoonlik. Maak net 'n mental note van die find, nie 'n log nie.

 

I kinda look up at Geo-cachers with plenty of finds logged, it gives them a status in my humble view. If it so happens that I respect a great Seeker to find out that he (or she) has been logging fake-finds, ...

 

Kom ons bly educated en dignified en los die gekroek terwyl ons vir ons mede spelers ons soekvermoens ten toon stel. En as jy dan vir persoonlike redes ietsietjies doen, los die log en maak net 'n mental note.

 

Dit is immers ons almal se sport?

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However, I discovered the answer very quickly when I visited the caches. I quickly realized that there are two separate hand signs in the log books. I still have my written recording of this on my printed listings. I went home and I studied this and the logs. One of the logs was saying that they were a group. I then understood the high finds. I had proof in my hand that these guys are real bullsh*****s. They spitted in two groups and there was one person in both groups that were signing the logs on behalf of the complete group. I then separated their cache finds in two groups as per signature in the log books and pulled it into Mapsource as two different routes. The two routes made sense and you could clearly see the paths that the two groups were following. I have the proof. I only need to make copies of the log books and the proof will be completed and acceptable as proof. Even a blind man without a stick can see this.

 

These guys got the high numbers and I know who they are and hope that they will be blushing when they see me in person or while reading about this on the forum. One day you will face me - shaking my hand at an event while you have to look me straight into my eyes – you will know that I know. I feel sorry for them because they missed the point of geocaching and soon some of them will get bored. This is the only pattern I picked up and to me it is an exception. It is however a great pity.

 

 

You seem to be falling in to the trap of judging others and thinking that your opinion of their style of caching is in some way important to them.

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No, it is question of difference in opinion. That is why it is important to discuss these items. This is how common accepted rules are developed. It is must be open and one have to shared ideas although it is sometimes touchy. What is acceptable must sometimes be questioned and it gives you the time to think again and why you are doing what you are doing. Only the person asking questions is learning something new. I can clearly see two streams – a “stats” and “ I love it” stream. Neither is wrong – you do what gives you pleasure. Tusk – jy het gedink tonteldoos is erg. Hier bloei dit, gelukkig is dit nie teen die kakies nie want ons sal ons dood stry voor hulle ons kan vang. :(

 

I still do not accept that one group can split in two groups. But if the general opinion is that it is ok then so be it. Group A finds 10 findings west and group B finds 10 findings east then they all come together and they all log 20 finds. What is the motive behind it? It is number crunching. But this is not geocaching or the very reason for it in my opinion. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am the only one that is wrong or is there more of us feeling the same.

 

Just to highlight my point further with a extreme example but which is still applicable. If the above is ok then it will be ok for me to find one cacher in each province in South Africa and we will form a group. There is 9 cachers and we will log on behalf of the other cachers. Each of the 9 cachers must find 500 caches for the year. At the end of the year we as a group has found 4500 caches. By next year we will have more than 9000 caches as a group. Only thing I need to do is to record 9 logs for each cache I found and the same applies to the other guys. I can even go further and why should I not include other countries – I have family in Germany that are also cachers. Let them log on my behalf and for the other 8 guys as well. If you want to see stats then you will see stats. It is now no longer the stats that counts, it is the number of people in your group that counts.

 

If this is ok, who volunteers to be in my group so we can really push the numbers for this year. If you compare stats and you are in for stats then you have to level the playing field. How can you compare the stats of a group of 10 to one person doing caching? It is difficult for me to chew on this one. If my friend and I decide to go climb mount Everest and I chicken out in the hotel room and he climbs it - can I claim that I conquered mount Everest because we were in a group? I do not think so.

 

I have no problem on my caches. If a group is doing this at my caches I will turn a blind eye – but I will not like it. If a group of 10 people visit and they all sign the log – yes that will give me pleasure and I will love it. The same with one of my own caches – one of our wood suppliers noticed a man and a woman at one of my caches. That afternoon two logs appeared and I confirmed it again with my friend just to make sure. It is obvious that the other group were not there. I will turn a blind eye and refuse to delete his log. But did my cache give me any pleasure – no it meant nothing now. Am I glad that the other log was false and that he added a number to his finds. No – I do not like it.

 

Gerhard

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No, it is question of difference in opinion. That is why it is important to discuss these items. This is how common accepted rules are developed. It is must be open and one have to shared ideas although it is sometimes touchy. What is acceptable must sometimes be questioned and it gives you the time to think again and why you are doing what you are doing. Only the person asking questions is learning something new. I can clearly see two streams – a “stats” and “ I love it” stream. Neither is wrong – you do what gives you pleasure. Tusk – jy het gedink tonteldoos is erg. Hier bloei dit, gelukkig is dit nie teen die kakies nie want ons sal ons dood stry voor hulle ons kan vang. :(

 

You lost me when you mentioned developing commonly accepted rules. The last thing I would want to see is a simple pleasure like geocaching being constrained by petty rules howver those rules are developed :)

 

Why on earth would we want such rules? Lets just enjoy the the fun without judging others or being judged by petty rules dreamt up by fellow cachers.

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You lost me when you mentioned developing commonly accepted rules. The last thing I would want to see is a simple pleasure like geocaching being constrained by petty rules howver those rules are developed :(

 

Why on earth would we want such rules? Lets just enjoy the the fun without judging others or being judged by petty rules dreamt up by fellow cachers.

 

You hit it on the nail. Why don’t we do as we please. Then no one can complain. I will log some finds on your caches tonight – there is no rules so why should it bother anyone? My logs are on its way. I see you have one. If you delete it then you are contradicting yourself and you highlight why some basic rules must be in place. Do you have any friends I would like to do some more logging?

Gerhard

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It does makes things interesting when a debate heats up like this. You should have seen the hoohaa about the logging of ASBA (Armchair Should Be Archived logs). Yes there are folks who trawl the listings and based on a number of DNF post a SBA log without ever been to the cache. But I digress.

 

Many good points made by all. For me the best caches are those that bring me to a spot I have not been to before or introduce a new angle to that spot. The enjoyment of the game and freedom to play it how you want is important, but the engineer in me likes the detail to be correct as well, so I end up with a foot in both schools of thought.

 

My sentiments lean towards the view that if you have been to the cache yourself (and preferably signed the logbook) then logging a find is quite OK. So the Team Ginger situation referred to above is more than OK to me - as long as they physically visited the cache. Group finds are OK as well - it can be found by someone else, but if you signed the log you were there, so it is OK. If you have not been to the cache then logging a find is NOT OK - that was basically what the whole thread I mentioned above was about. The situation described by Gerhardoos seems to indicate folks who logged finds without being to the cache - that does not make sense to me.

 

I agree that deleting logs, although accepted by the rules, is anathema to me. I would not easily delete a log - it is just not worth the effort and potential bad karma.

 

Gerhardoos made a good point - you cannot say you conquered Everest if you only got as far as the hotel. But if you got there in a group OK. Ooh - now if you got there with a helicopter - will that count?

 

Gerhardoos - I agree with you about your brother not logging online: One should acknowledge the effort put in by the hider with an online log. The hider gets pleasure from reading that folks have enjoyed their cache - otherwise they would not have listed it on GC.com in the first place. I am quite easy either way about you logging online on your brother's behalf - it's just him that you need to consider in this regard.

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"O tempora, o mores!"

 

"What times! what morals!"

 

Cicero: 106 - 43 BC.

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2000 jaar later, na mense op die maan was sukkel ons nog steeds. Daardie ou moet sy hare uit sy kop uit trek teen hierdie tyd.

 

Baie goeie stukkie wat Pooks uitgehaal het. Paar manne kan moeilik wees as hulle gevat word waaraan hulle glo.

 

Dit was lekker maar nou is dit klaar. Ek is nou weg van hierdie een.

 

Gerhard

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I have noticed that this is a “very hot” topic, but on a lighter note…..

 

Do you know what the best part about Alzheimer's disease is??

1) You can hide your own easter eggs;

2) You can meet a new friend everyday; and

3) You can hide your own easter eggs

 

:laughing::P:laughing:

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I have noticed that this is a “very hot” topic, but on a lighter note…..

 

Do you know what the best part about Alzheimer's disease is??

1) You can hide your own easter eggs;

2) You can meet a new friend everyday; and

3) You can hide your own easter eggs

 

:laughing::laughing::P

 

funny :P

 

I was reading the thread now and totally agree with the yeah its not really the done thing but why worry about what other people are doing. I personaly wouldnt log a cache I placed but if someone chooses to do that let it be on there head :laughing:

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Just a quick note about something people might have missed. When you list your hide, there is a space where it asks who did the hiding. You can literally put anything there, 'Pietie, Kosie & Sannie' This is what people see when they look at the listing's 'hidden by...' and this could be confusing.

 

However, that cache only goes against the person who was signed on to list it. Therefore, in my eyes the others can log a find/HTH against it and the logger is now the owner, not the others (even if they maintain, take custody, whatever) My friend Trackz does not share my sentiment and doesn't do the HTH thing, that's his choice. I have not been in that situation but would happily log my HTH if I can.

 

Therefore, I interpreted CF etc.'s logs in that same light as it makes sense to split the maintenance of event caches between the organisers. So not really a 'finding my own cache' situation.

 

BTW, even though people don't admit it most of us are in the numbers/stats game here. Otherwise people would not not get so upset methinks. It doesn't take away the joy of interesting places and discovering history, but personally I enjoy both aspects equally. And I love riding my bike, so they combine perfectly. Maybe only for a season, as I might get bored in 2 years time (or sooner when I see the politics going on, best to avoid the forums) and take a break or something. For now, let's have fun! Please?

 

My R2...

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Have been away for most of this thread, but are finding it most interesting.

We have a rule as a team - if one of the team happens to be in Johannesburg on business and will be caching on, lets say Sunday, the other one who is at home in Cape Town will not cache at all on that day.

If we both cached in different places on the same day, we would have quite a lot more finds to our name.

We have always felt that it wouldn't be right to do that, and unfair on the one man teams like Discombob, Globalrat, Brick etc.

So our rule is: Act as if there is only one GPS in the house.

To get away from those that are cheating to get their numbers up we have asked that our name gets taken off CrystalFairy's ranking list and now we are not in competition with anyone. There are one or two other cachers who have also had their names removed.

We want to enjoy caching and going out to discover new places, not be competing with others.

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> We want to enjoy caching and going out to discover new places, not be competing with others.

 

I fully agree with CNC's above quote, having been a member since 2003 it took me - now us! :angry: - 5 years to hit the 100th cache, nothing wrong with that, all 100 been 100% fun and truly FINDS :D that same goes with TB's we "spot" at events, our "policy" is NOT to log em if we did not realy talke em with us. It just does not make "sense" in our eyes - but that's us. YOU out there do what you think is fair for you and then view your stats with those eyes too, enjoy. :D

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