Jump to content

pre-sales/pre-orders/reservations


LionsLair

Recommended Posts

It seems eveytime I turn around every new coin lately is a pre-sale/pre-order/ or a reservation for the coin(s) offered.

I can understand projects with a 'personal' touch such as the geo-guitars,geo-jellies, or birds of a feather projects, but why on just plain everyday trackable coins?

With all the minting delays in the past few months from the mints, it means we are being offered coins for sale that we may have to wait 45-60 days on.(if not longer)

I realize evryone is excited to get thier coin out to the masses. I also realize alot of work goes into the production of some of them. But is it really necessary to sell them so far in advance of shipments?

It just seems to me that the coins should only be sold when they are ready to be made available for shipment, which means after a coin vendor has the coin in hand ready to ship!

I'm sure many feel this way and some may or may not express thier opinion on the matter, but I for one am done with pre-sales/pre-orders of coins. Sure, I may miss an edition or two, but it's the only way I can continue in my coin collecting ventures, as I've got several hundred $'s tied up in pre-sales not knowing when I'll recieve my coins.

Sorry, I just had to vent and get that off my chest... :blink::blink: ...as you may have guessed, I didn't get anything in my mailbox! :blink::wub:

Link to comment

It's kind of along the same lines as you're theory of having your money tied up in pre-sales and no merchandise. Vendors these days have tons more competition than usual, and quantities of coins don't move as fast. So, they do pre-sales and pre-orders to not have store inventory and cash sit for long times. They don't want their money tied up in coins on a shelf.

 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with how things are currently. Just tryin' to splain :blink:

 

TMA

Link to comment

It's kind of along the same lines as you're theory of having your money tied up in pre-sales and no merchandise. Vendors these days have tons more competition than usual, and quantities of coins don't move as fast. So, they do pre-sales and pre-orders to not have store inventory and cash sit for long times. They don't want their money tied up in coins on a shelf.

 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with how things are currently. Just tryin' to splain :blink:

 

TMA

 

I fully understand the point of having $ sitting on the shelf. If everyone did that, then you wouldn't have a wal-mart, or grocery stores... you'ld have catalogs to order from and maybe you could get what you wanted in the next week or two.

I am not going to pick on the little guys that are just trying to offer coins to folks and not alot of capital to work with, but the larger coin manufaturors rarely if ever offer pre-sales. When I order from them I have product in hand generally within a week.

I guess having MY $ sitting on THIER shelf is just not sitting well with me. It won't happen any longer. Nobody to blame but myself, and only I can change that by changing the way I purchase coins....

Link to comment

I use reservations to guage the market. I then send invoices when the coins ship from the mint or after I get them.

I do the same thing, on a much smaller scale, I only get about 30 coins usually. I do it because I know there are some who collect AE's and some who are really great to me and like to have all my coins, so this way they get advanced notice of a new design, but again I don't ask for money until I have the coins.

Link to comment

I use reservations to guage the market. I then send invoices when the coins ship from the mint or after I get them.

I do the same thing, on a much smaller scale, I only get about 30 coins usually. I do it because I know there are some who collect AE's and some who are really great to me and like to have all my coins, so this way they get advanced notice of a new design, but again I don't ask for money until I have the coins.

 

I see... I've not actually done a reservation and just assumed it worked the same way as pre-sales.

I don't see anything wrong with this practice as you don't keep folks waiting for weeks upon weeks waiting for thier coins only to hear that the 'mint has had delays in production'

 

I guess I should figure out reservation techniques before I bash on the practice of such, my appologies...

I think everyone gets the point I was making though.

Link to comment

I personally don't do pre-orders or pre-sales but I have done reservations for a design I knew was going to be popular. Being the small guy, doing it a week or two in advance helps me get my envelopes addressed and everything assembly line ready, cause I have to do everything myself.

 

It's easy to see why you're posting because you're frustrated about coins you've paid for and haven't gotten. I agree in theory with pay for the coins once in hand but that doesn't necessarily work in this particular market for every situation.

 

What about remints?

 

It's a tough market to judge because each coin gets a different response from customers. I'm going to tell you that it's not easy to figure out what will sell well and what won't. i've seen a number of people post that they saw coins that sold out that they never thought would and coins sit on the shelves that they thought would sell out. So I can understand why some vendors choose to do preorders/presales.

 

Like you said, you ordered knowing that you were going to have to wait for coins and that sometimes means delays or potentially having your money taken and no coin show up.

 

In a perfect geocoin world, oh wait there is no such thing :blink:

 

I've been waiting 3 weeks for a sample of the Blue Earth Turtle :blink: and then I have to ask myself how to handle the remints? Pre-sales are out. Reservations? No one pays, people send their orders without paying, i get coins then what happens if a bunch of people don't pay 2 to 3 weeks down the road? There is no perfect solution on either side of the coin :blink:

 

Like you said, just wait until a coin is either available for sale or try to trade for it down the road :wub:

Link to comment

I'd like to see pre-sales go away as well.

 

IMO, if you need to do pre-sales because you think a coin won't sell well - don't make the coin.

 

I think if everybody had to only sell coins they had in hand, some might re-think some of the mintings.

Link to comment

I'd like to see pre-sales go away as well.

 

IMO, if you need to do pre-sales because you think a coin won't sell well - don't make the coin.

 

I think if everybody had to only sell coins they had in hand, some might re-think some of the mintings.

 

I have been thinking about pre-sales myself actually. I don't have the money to invest in coins up front (I know I can't be the only one). I believe that to be a good enough reason. I'm not looking to make money I just like making a coin everyone enjoys and would like to break even by ordering just what people have paid for.

 

Is that really so bad? I think it would keep the cost of coins lower probably since sellers don't have to pad to pay for coins that don't sell.

Edited by scavok
Link to comment

I agree with reservations but am against pre-sales. I did it for my first coin in '06' and was worried incase of delays etc. I've not done it since then. It's also against most payment providers policies to take funds for something you don't actually have in hand and so I don't take payment in advance anymore.

 

Reservations however, are a usefull tool to be able to gauge the market and speed up the sale of coins when they arrive to prevent stock just sitting on the shelf though.

 

Ian

Link to comment

It's kind of along the same lines as you're theory of having your money tied up in pre-sales and no merchandise. Vendors these days have tons more competition than usual, and quantities of coins don't move as fast. So, they do pre-sales and pre-orders to not have store inventory and cash sit for long times. They don't want their money tied up in coins on a shelf.

 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with how things are currently. Just tryin' to splain :blink:

 

TMA

 

. If everyone did that, then you wouldn't have a wal-mart, or grocery stores... .

 

These places have much less sitting on the shelf then you may think. It used to be that each store would have a stockroom full of goods waiting to go onto the sales floor(like the coin vendors who make hundreds of coins, then try to sell them)

The way things are done now is called J.I.T(Just In Time). The store does not have anything in the back room. If you buy a toaster right now, then a message is sent to the Distribution Center and a replacement toaster is put into the truck. The truck then drives all night to get the toaster to the store by the next day.

 

Anyway, the way I understood the need for presales is to get the money needed to produce the coin. Esentialy it means that you are an investor in the company, but rather than get a share, you get a coin. If we were to rely on people to produce a product first and then sell it to us, it may give us the instant satisfaction we want, but many(or even most) of the coins out there would never have been made.

Link to comment

I'd like to see pre-sales go away as well.

 

IMO, if you need to do pre-sales because you think a coin won't sell well - don't make the coin.

 

I think if everybody had to only sell coins they had in hand, some might re-think some of the mintings.

 

I agree.

 

Furthermore, I've been sick to death of the presale practice for years. Like the OP, I can't stand having my money tied up for months. I have several coin purchases I have been wating on for 6 to 8 weeks with the money tied up.

 

I will say that there are a handful of sellers who allow me to pay closer to when the coins arrive, eventhough the invoice was sent right away. To those sellers, I say thanks.

Link to comment

If we were to rely on people to produce a product first and then sell it to us, it may give us the instant satisfaction we want, but many(or even most) of the coins out there would never have been made.

 

And some of them are so terrible they should have never be made. If one doesn't have the money to mint the coin, don't make it, or sell the design off to a larger vendor for a % of the coins as payment.

Link to comment

If we were to rely on people to produce a product first and then sell it to us, it may give us the instant satisfaction we want, but many(or even most) of the coins out there would never have been made.

 

And some of them are so terrible they should have never be made. If one doesn't have the money to mint the coin, don't make it, or sell the design off to a larger vendor for a % of the coins as payment.

 

Well said. I think people would think twice on their coin design if they had to pony up the whole amount of the coin. If they have to sell the coin to make back the money, I sure they would put more time into the design so it would be wanted by the masses.

Link to comment

I hate presales. You sit and wait and wait wondering when (or if) your coins will ever arrive.

 

On the other hand though, I love pre-orders/reservations.

 

If I pay for and make 500 coins, and only 20 of them sell, I am down thousands of dollars.

 

BUT if I gauge the market - do pre-orders or reservations, I can find out whether 20 or 200 or 2000 coins are needed, and make enough to supply demand.

 

I get tired of people moaning that they weren't able to buy a coin when it goes for sale because 500 coins sold out in 5 minutes, sometimes to only a handful of people who want to corner the market.

 

Pre-orders and reservations are the fairest way to mint and sell a coin so that nobody misses out or feels cheated. Especially when invoices are sent when the coins are in hand, ready to be mailed.

 

Just my 2 pennies worth :blink:

Link to comment

I hate having hundreds of dollars in presales orders out there, not knowing when they will come in from the mint, but I empathize with minters who take reservations and then get stiffed when people don't pay. If the design is that impressive, I guess the coins should resell pretty easily, but If I were in the position of the minters, I'd be nervous myself. Maybe taking a deposit would be a good compromise? That way the coiners can get a decent guage of quantities to mint and the buyers won't have quite as much loot tied up. Although, now that I'm thinking, if I were to have only put down a deposit on one coin, that would free up funds to leave as deposits on others and I would end up spending a whole lot more than I do now :blink:

 

I gotta get a second job :blink:

Link to comment

Although I am frustrated today, I can't honestly sit here and say i'm done with presales. I would like to say i'll never use presales again but the fact is, if its a coin I really like and it is offered through presale, i'll more than likely jump on board just so I don't miss out on the sale. (i'll just be wiser now and only do this if its a coin I think I won't be able to get otherwise)

 

At first I liked the idea of presales because it allowed me to get a coin I thought I may not be able to get. Then I realized that my money was being tied up for a few weeks to a few months while I waited and waited. (i've even waited so long that when I got the coin in the mail it was a surprise to me as i'd forgotten I had actually preordered the coin). I understand it helps one judge the number of coins that should be minted but the more likely reason is that money up front from buyers is less money the person making the coin has to front. (lets face it, making coins isn't cheap)

 

I've been involved with two "group projects". Both of these took quite a long time to get to me. I was kept informed on both coins of the progress (and sometimes lack of progress). I understand they are big projects and more coins are minted than the normal order. I do know in advance that these coins are going to take a little longer but then I have the problem when my coin had an error and now I can 1.accept the error coin, 2. keep the error coin and pay more to get a new set of coins or 3. wait another few weeks to get the right coin. My coin has been paid for at least a couple of months and now while I watch everyone else talk about how nice their coin looks and how they want to trade their nice coin, i'm still waiting for mine. (Of course this has nothing to do with the person (s) that set up the project as they have done a great job. I say this because I don't want anyone to feel slighted by my frustrations. It's just frustrating to have to wait another few weeks just to get something that should have been done right the first time.)

 

I prefer reservations. Let me tell you I want this coin and then when you have it in hand, send me an invoice. I prefer this method if I can't just outright buy the coin and have it mailed to me in a few days. However, from the seller stand point, I understand that reservations is a risk you take. People may say they want 2 coins and when they receive the invoice (a few weeks later) they don't have the money because life got in the way and a bill came up or something unexpected happened. So then the seller is stuck with these extra coins.

 

I suppose there isn't a perfect geocoin world out there except to do it the old fashioned way of minting the coin, hoping you made enough and if you didn't make enough be happy that your coin sold out and people really loved your design. (don't see the sell out as an opportunity to do a remint ...but that's a whole other issue)

Edited by n8turgrl
Link to comment

 

 

I've been waiting 3 weeks for a sample of the Blue Earth Turtle :blink: and then I have to ask myself how to handle the remints? Pre-sales are out. Reservations? No one pays, people send their orders without paying, i get coins then what happens if a bunch of people don't pay 2 to 3 weeks down the road? There is no perfect solution on either side of the coin :blink:

 

 

hey Tsun! If anyone renegs on a reservation for one of your coins, put me at the top of the waiting list!! I always seem to miss out on yours!

Link to comment

Personally, I prefer the reservation system with invoicing when coins are back from the mint. It allows me to budget for the coins I want and at the same time not to have to worry about being on line in the first 5 minutes to get a chance to buy that coin I really want. It gives me the opportunity to get some very beautiful coins.

 

I have been involved in one group project and appreciate the hard work that goes into them. Given that we are ordering custom coins in large quantities I think that paying when the artwork is finalized and the order is sent to the mint is appropriate. I also personally hope some more projects become available soon. I missed out on the GW6 bears but got one from WWC at dinner!

 

I too have missed Tsun's reservations...would love a mailing list or some way to be notified. I was working in the GW6 store and saw you walk by but couldn't find you afterwards to say hello.

Link to comment
My coin has been paid for at least a couple of months and now while I watch everyone else talk about how nice their coin looks and how they want to trade their nice coin, i'm still waiting for mine. (Of course this has nothing to do with the person (s) that set up the project as they have done a great job. I say this because I don't want anyone to feel slighted by my frustrations.

 

Trust me I can feel your pain on this part of it. Some days I'm mad (at the mint) and others I forget I even have some coming at this point.

Link to comment

Personally, I prefer the reservation system with invoicing when coins are back from the mint. It allows me to budget for the coins I want and at the same time not to have to worry about being on line in the first 5 minutes to get a chance to buy that coin I really want. It gives me the opportunity to get some very beautiful coins.

 

I have been involved in one group project and appreciate the hard work that goes into them. Given that we are ordering custom coins in large quantities I think that paying when the artwork is finalized and the order is sent to the mint is appropriate. I also personally hope some more projects become available soon. I missed out on the GW6 bears but got one from WWC at dinner!

 

I too have missed Tsun's reservations...would love a mailing list or some way to be notified. I was working in the GW6 store and saw you walk by but couldn't find you afterwards to say hello.

 

Just send me an email and I'll point you in the right direction :)

 

 

 

 

hey Tsun! If anyone renegs on a reservation for one of your coins, put me at the top of the waiting list!! I always seem to miss out on yours!

:laughing:

 

Have we solved the geocoin minting problems of the world yet? :)

Link to comment

Hmmm. Have I got my presales and preorders muddled. We take orders when we have placed the order with the mint and sell at a lower price on orders palced from this point until we have the coins in hand. I've been calling this a pre-sale, have I got it wrong?

Link to comment

I have several coin purchases I have been wating on for 6 to 8 weeks with the money tied up.

 

That sucks, 6 to 8 weeks? Which coins or vendors are these? That's a sham. :laughing:

 

I don't like pre-sales. It's getting worse and people keep putting the blame on the Chinese mints. I don't mind having a pre-reservation where I can pre-order the coin then I pay when the coin comes in.

 

If I pay for and make 500 coins, and only 20 of them sell, I am down thousands of dollars.

 

If you need other people to fund a coin, then don't make... :)

 

I agree with Kealia, if you are worried, about whether your coin will sell or not, then don't make it. :)

Link to comment

It seems eveytime I turn around every new coin lately is a pre-sale/pre-order/ or a reservation for the coin(s) offered....

 

I ran pre-orders for the Friends of Caching Series #1 to get an idea for demand. Delays, SNAFU's and the like resulted in losing about a year. The reason was to get a feel for demand. Demand sets the numbers sold, the numbers sold sets the coins price. More makes for a less expensive coin since some fixed costs are spread out over more coins. After the coin was finally out about half the pre-ordered number sold.

 

After the delays...I probably won't do pre-orders again. I'll just make the coin and call it good.

Link to comment

I don't like pre-orders but I'll accept them if it's being minted by an individual with a great idea, excited about their art, etc. I realize that the little guy might not have the money to put up and am willing to help support them and their design (if i like it) buuuuuut when the "person" minting the coin presents themselves as a business, and expects us to put up the money for the minting it really irks me. You're either a business or you're not.

 

Reservations are just as good a solution to crashed websites at sale time as Pre-sales.

 

The first one I loved and held back from ordering was really the most difficult... Now I read the newsletter admire the design, and realize that I really don't need it that bad. I've stopped ordering from some "stores"

 

/of course if "pre-sale" just means "available on a secret link for a week or so, but shipped immediately" i have NO problems :laughing:

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...