Extra cache

[+Adium]

In your initial post, you seem to be asking for advice. For the moment, I'll ignore the fact that you are arguing with just about every one who has given you advice, and toss my $0.02 in the mix:

 

I am not arguing with everyone, just critizing the flamers. however it seems now that this is a flame thread. Yes, I took a cache that was right next to mine. Almost touching in fact. Everything I saw told me, it doesn't belong. So I removed it. Now I have learned of a new site called atlasquest.com and have realised I am wrong.

 

I don't feel that I am being irrational. I am trying to find a logical solution as what to do with two caches in the same place. I seem to be heavily critizied, multiple times before anyone is even thinking about helping me.

 

I realize I am wrong. I am willing to fix it. Why is everyone critizing me about past threads.

 

One thread was about a knife as a travel bug. My question, knives aren't allowed in caches according to the guidlines so I can't put this kinfe into another cache without breaking the rules. I asked for help there and everyone misinterepreted everything.

 

Another thread was about local cachers hiding caches where they aren't supposed to. I have flagged three cache's this week alone for archiving. Never got an answer there.

 

If everyone wants to critize me and flame towards me, then you are no better than the person you claim I am being. I took the LB in error thinking it is geolitter or someone placed it there so they could claim a find after they didn't find my cache. At the time everything inside me said this should be there, everything I found online confirmed I was write, I asked the people here and learned of a new site and now I know I am wrong. So I will be returning the LB, and moving my cache.

 

Thank you everyone for your comments, I am amased at the amount of hostility here and flamers. Regardless this is only a game.

 

As far I am concerned this discussion is over, could someone please lock this topic?

[+Ambrosia]

I'm sorry that you feel that everyone has been hostile towards you. I'm not sure that I have seen that hostility, myself.

 

One of the things that I have learned from being in the forums, is that if people seem to consistently have a problem with what I am saying, then it's probably not them, it's probably me. I've spent a long time trying to make sure that I can communicate clearly so that others can understand me, and so that we can have clear and fruitful discussions.

[+Adium]

I'm sorry that you feel that everyone has been hostile towards you. I'm not sure that I have seen that hostility, myself.

 

One of the things that I have learned from being in the forums, is that if people seem to consistently have a problem with what I am saying, then it's probably not them, it's probably me. I've spent a long time trying to make sure that I can communicate clearly so that others can understand me, and so that we can have clear and fruitful discussions.

Everyone brining up past posts in which the conversation was a little controversial. One in which I was hostile myself trying to get someone to give me an answer.

 

Then Anton coming in to tell me I shouldn't be allowed to speak in the forums.

 

Multiple people telling me I am wrong and should of never taken the cache. I realize now that I am wrong, you can see my join date and should be able to understand I am fairly new and don't know everything yet. Except I feel I am being pushed towards the guillotine with a guilty sentence for taking a very very very private cache. That is restricted so only special people can find it to begin with, or in my case confirm it exists.

 

I am just trying to get some answers and I feel everyone is only seeing "Adium stole a cache"!

Edited June 14, 2008 by Adium

[+TrailGators]

If you posted that you put that cache/letterbox back and you are in the process of moving your cache, I think you would get a lot of positive responses.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

This is an IBTL post:

 

In before the lock with the required mention (at least one per thread) of nanny goats.

 

Thank you.

[+Sapience Trek]

Caches get placed near letterboxes all the time. I can think of a dozen just off the top of my head where a letterbox and geocache were < 5 feet apart. If it's a good spot for a geocache, that's exactly what letterboxers say.

 

Most letterboxers I've talked to have no interest in geocaching. The look down upon geocachers for a number of reasons I won't go into here.

 

If you move your puzzle cache, please update your final (hidden) waypoint of your puzzle cache so that another cache doesn't get published on top of yours. If you went through the trouble of making a puzzle you probably don't want people to stumble upon yours while they are looking for somebody else's.

[LockWench]

Oh dear...I am afraid it is MY letterbox which has been the topic of this board. I planted a letterbox in Westminster Park several years ago. First it was inside a large tree, but that box went missing so I ended up hiding it below the tree instead. That seemed to be ok, then it again recently went missing! It was a lock n lock container, and had just a logbook ( the second one, to be exact) and a hand carved stamp. It was NOT to be a trade item.

 

I would very much like to have the box returned, and in it's rightful spot. I started out as a geocacher several years ago but switched to letterboxing as I enjoy the hand-carved stamp aspect. In the beginning I used to check first to make sure there wasn't a geocache nearby, but as both hobbies have exploded, it's become harder and harder to avoid each other. So now I just try to live in harmony with the other hobby, and give fair warning to letterboxers if I learn later that there is a geocache nearby. Letterboxers don't always find the nearby cache, as our hobby generally guides you RIGHT TO THE EXACT spot, rather than a general area.

 

I implore upon the geocacher who took the box, to put it back in it's spot. I also have a letterbox that I planted in Armory Square, in a very public spot, inside a small metal tin. Soon after planting it, a geocacher planted ANOTHER tin only INCHES away from my spot. Maybe mine was hidden so well he/she didn't realize it, but I started getting a lot of reports asking me where the stamp was, as this tin just had a log of people's signatures. I knew right away they were talking of a geocache and not my letterbox. Even though I was there first, I figured it won't hurt anything to allow the geocache to be virtually on top of mine. I would never think of removing the cache without permission, however.

 

Can't we all just get along?

 

LockWench

[+punchappy]

I really do hope your box is returned and the stamp is found.

[+WRASTRO]

I'm sorry that you feel that everyone has been hostile towards you. I'm not sure that I have seen that hostility, myself.

 

One of the things that I have learned from being in the forums, is that if people seem to consistently have a problem with what I am saying, then it's probably not them, it's probably me. I've spent a long time trying to make sure that I can communicate clearly so that others can understand me, and so that we can have clear and fruitful discussions.

Everyone brining up past posts in which the conversation was a little controversial. One in which I was hostile myself trying to get someone to give me an answer.

 

Then Anton coming in to tell me I shouldn't be allowed to speak in the forums.

 

Multiple people telling me I am wrong and should of never taken the cache. I realize now that I am wrong, you can see my join date and should be able to understand I am fairly new and don't know everything yet. Except I feel I am being pushed towards the guillotine with a guilty sentence for taking a very very very private cache. That is restricted so only special people can find it to begin with, or in my case confirm it exists.

 

I am just trying to get some answers and I feel everyone is only seeing "Adium stole a cache"!

I think what you are seeing in the various threads you have started is a lot of responses from veteran cachers (including myself) who have been trying to get you to understand that you need to back off a bit and give yourself time to become more experienced in this game. There are a lot of areas that are open to interpretation in this game and to a great extent we can only learn these things with the benefit of time and experience.

 

When you come to the forums and tell everyone they are stupid, ignorant, endangering children, trespassing, moderators and reviewers should be fired, etc. you should expect that you will receive a fair amount of opposition. After all, this game has been plodding along reasonably well for a few years before you joined up.

 

If you can modify your approach to caching and to the forums I think you will find the game and the forums to be a much happier and friendlier place. This isn't to say that you don't have good and valuable opinions and input. It is to say that others do as well and that you don't likely hold all of the answers just yet.

 

When you ask a question you should expect that not everyone will agree with your position or with your interpretation of the "rules". That is actually one of the great things about this game as far as I am concerned. And it is definitely a fact of life in these forums. You might consider this when you are framing the content for your next topic. Ask questions that can be answered honestly by others and be willing to have others disagree with you without feeling the need to attack or rebut every point or comment.

 

On topic: Return the LB container and decide if your GC container can coexist with the LB container that was already there by modifying the information on your cache page. If it can't then I would suggest that your cache should be moved or archived.

[+Confucius' Cat]

To get this topic back to nicety, I have found several letterboxes whilst caching. I respond "JACKPOT!" and get out my stamp and logbook and score BOTH finds whenever possible.

 

We CAN all get along. Mistakes will happen.

 

Now, go do the right thing...

[+TrailGators]

Oh dear...I am afraid it is MY letterbox which has been the topic of this board. I planted a letterbox in Westminster Park several years ago. First it was inside a large tree, but that box went missing so I ended up hiding it below the tree instead. That seemed to be ok, then it again recently went missing! It was a lock n lock container, and had just a logbook ( the second one, to be exact) and a hand carved stamp. It was NOT to be a trade item.

 

I would very much like to have the box returned, and in it's rightful spot. I started out as a geocacher several years ago but switched to letterboxing as I enjoy the hand-carved stamp aspect. In the beginning I used to check first to make sure there wasn't a geocache nearby, but as both hobbies have exploded, it's become harder and harder to avoid each other. So now I just try to live in harmony with the other hobby, and give fair warning to letterboxers if I learn later that there is a geocache nearby. Letterboxers don't always find the nearby cache, as our hobby generally guides you RIGHT TO THE EXACT spot, rather than a general area.

 

I implore upon the geocacher who took the box, to put it back in it's spot. I also have a letterbox that I planted in Armory Square, in a very public spot, inside a small metal tin. Soon after planting it, a geocacher planted ANOTHER tin only INCHES away from my spot. Maybe mine was hidden so well he/she didn't realize it, but I started getting a lot of reports asking me where the stamp was, as this tin just had a log of people's signatures. I knew right away they were talking of a geocache and not my letterbox. Even though I was there first, I figured it won't hurt anything to allow the geocache to be virtually on top of mine. I would never think of removing the cache without permission, however.

 

Can't we all just get along?

 

LockWench

I think the vast majority of us do get along! I hope your letterbox is returned!

[+OzzieSan]

I'm afraid this cacher seems to have a slight problem with the concept of ownership. Or perhaps it is simply a "my way or the highway" viewpoint on life.

That TB is in the mail to that owner now. Its not an issue of ownership, if you would like to discuss how that person violated the guidlines that says no knives in a cache then maybe you should discuss your issues on that topic, in that forum. Two issues, two topics. The topic here is a proximity issue between two caches.

 

Could we please stay on topic? If you want to post flaming messages towards myself, I have my own forum..., www.razornylon.com/community

 

Which you graciously changed to "issue of ownership" when you said you took someone else's property. I'd say you brought it up in your thread so it must be on topic.

[Clan Riffster]

In your initial post, you seem to be asking for advice. For the moment, I'll ignore the fact that you are arguing with just about every one who has given you advice, and toss my $0.02 in the mix:

 

I am not <edited for brevity> game.

Wow. I type two sentences poking fun at the fact that you argue too dang much, and eleven sentences offering reasonable, well thought out advice for you, or others in similar situations. Rather than focus on the 11 positive sentences, you focus on the other 2, and argue about them. I think my irony meter just peaked.

[+TeamAtlas]

To get this topic back to nicety, I have found several letterboxes whilst caching. I respond "JACKPOT!" and get out my stamp and logbook and score BOTH finds whenever possible.

We CAN all get along. Mistakes will happen.

 

Now, go do the right thing...

 

I agree. I always check both geocaching.com and atlasquest.com for caches and letterboxes in an area I'll be visiting, so we can log both at the same time.

 

Many times there are caches and letterboxes hidden within close proximety to each other, which can be a good thing and a bad thing... there is one example not far from here where cachers are signing the log in a letterbox nearby and leaving trade items/geocoins/travel bugs in it... luckily the stamp is still there and hasn't been traded for.

 

We also found one letterbox recently that had written on it in large bold letters: LETTERBOX. NOT TRASH, NOT CACHE. I thought that was a good idea and maybe all letterboxes should be labled as such and vice versa.

[+mvigor]

I'm fairly sure time travel is involved here. The OP actually placed both caches, but he doesn't know yet that he'll do that.

[+softball29]

The point remains that if you find a box that is not yours leave it alone. You were convinced that it was litter and it turns out you were wrong. It can happen again if you just pick up boxes. These games depend on people leaving things where they are. You should not have picked up the container just because you did not think it was a valid game piece.

 

I'm still trying to follow to OP's reasoning as to why he took it.

 

Let's say a new game comes along called Gortblat. While someone is hiding a Gorblat Putamaroow, they happen upon your cache. HHMMM....who would put such a small Putamaroow here? Must be abandoned (I checked the Gortblat website after all), so I'll just take it.

 

It goes back to the golden rule. If you don't mind people muggling your cache since it's abandoned, I guess it was OK that you took it first and then asked questions later.

 

However, if you're not fond of people stealing your abandoned property, why steal others'? Just because it's not on a certain website?

 

Sorry......I'm off to play Gortblat......

 

You play Gortblat, too? Awesome game!

 

Those Putamaroow are SO hard to find though!

 

There is only one letterbox in my area and I need to find it and do some stamping. I'd like to do both letterboxing and geocaching. I think it could make things more fun!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Also what are the odds that two people placed a cache within a foot or better of each other? Then named the cache the exact same name?

I very recently found a letterbox within feet of a hidden puzzle cache, so the odds can't be that bad.

 

 

I have found three letter boxes near caches, all within about 5 miles of here. In two of the cases the caches were *intentionally* hidden near the letterboxes. One of the specifically mentions the letterbox in the listing. The coordinates for the cache are about 70' off so after my first DNF I started checking Letterbox sites to see if I could find which letter box it was and get a better idea where it was located. As it turned out there was *another* letterbox about 100' away.

 

There's another letterbox up in Syracuse that uses the exact same container as a nearby (as in about a foot) cache.

[+paleolith]

I'm not sure that I have seen that hostility, myself.

I certainly felt it.

 

I gather there may be a history here (I haven't looked). But Adium came on with a question. The veteran posters, instead of saying

um, it would have been better to take photos and leave the box in place while you investigate, and retrospectively it would be better to put it back right now while you investigate

basically went on the attack, accusing Adium of being a thief etc ad nauseum. In Adium's OP, I saw confusion and questions, not any hostility to the extra box, not any thought of someone trying to usurp a place.

 

Yeah, the advice to get along applies to all of us, and in this case I think that a lot of the veteran posters here need to take a dose.

 

Edward

Edited June 18, 2008 by paleolith

[+briansnat]

We also found one letterbox recently that had written on it in large bold letters: LETTERBOX. NOT TRASH, NOT CACHE. I thought that was a good idea and maybe all letterboxes should be labled as such and vice versa.

 

I have a few caches near letterboxes. In some cases my cache was there first and in some cases the letterbox was. In each case I put a little note inside the letterbox saying "This is not the geocache. Please continue your search and do not take the stamp". I don't know if the letterbox owner appreciated that or not. He never responded to me.

[+wandering4cache]

In my years, we found several letterboxes. I now log those too. One cache was literally sitting on top of the letterbox container. Completely confused me at first.

 

We own a cache that has been there for a few years. Last year, a letterbox was placed with the same name but maybe 100 ft away. Several cachers were finding the letterbox that was hidden in a historic stone wall. Not something we would ever do. I've changed our listing to include in at last 3 places that there is a letterbox in a stonewall & its NOT the cache. Wouldn't you know, people still log the letterbox as the cache occasionally. Even with a photo of what the cache looks like on the page which in no way resembles the letterbox. sigh....

 

My next step will be to include a note in the letterbox stating this is not the cache. Mainly so travel bugs don't get left in it because its also a letterbox hitchhiker hotel.

 

My advice. Share the location. Do your best to mark each container as to what they are & include several notes on your page and in the container.

 

You are new to this game & still have lots to learn. Learn from people with years of playing. They've seen a lot more.

[CoyoteRed]

A couple of lessons learned here (hopefully):

• Don't think you know the hobby well enough after a couple or three months that you start taking other people's property.
  
• Make sure you label your caches and boxes! Marking the outside, the log book, or a stash/box note helps in situations like this.
  

PS: I couldn't help but read the arrogance in some of the posts. Letterboxes should be listed here? It's not a cache until it's listed? Sheesh. The world does not revolve around geocaching, much less geocaching.com. We've found stuff in a local park that was geocache/letterbox-like, but was neither. Go figure. Didn't even cross my mind to take them either.