Compromised cache

[+Not the Mama!]

My daughter has managed to show off my multi-cache (GC1C9WA) to all her school friends. At the least, I know that some of them have parents who are cachers, at the worst..... I'm sure you can guess.

 

I have temporarily disabled the cache & later today, I will visit the cache site & remove all the cache containers.

 

Can I relocate the caches to other locations within the general area, or should I just archive the cache & start again? If I archive & start again, can I place the multi-cache in the same general area?

[+Kiwi Nomad]

Sorry I am not sure why you are pulling them all.

Are the pieces all still in place?

If so leave it and see how it survives.

Oh and explain to your daughter you don't want her showing all her class mates any caches you may place in the future.

[+briansnat]

If you move each stage 20-30 feet that would be enough to stymie anybody who wanted to toy with your cache, but is probably not enough to warrant archiving and starting over.

 

No reason you can't place a new multi in the area if you archive this one, but if you want to do that change the new one enough to make it a significantly different experience.

 

Another option would be to keep it where it is, but remove the containers and take it offline for a month or two.

Then replace everything and by then the kids will have long forgot about it.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Can I relocate the caches to other locations within the general area

 

Yes - you can shift the stages, and you can shift the start point up to528 ft/ 161 metres. You'll find that you can edit those coordinates yourself, both the posted coordinates at the head of listing, and the hidden waypoints. (please do, don't leave the old waypoints, they may end up blocking some other placement to no purpose)

 

or should I just archive the cache & start again? If I archive & start again, can I place the multi-cache in the same general area?

 

Yes, you can archive and start over - should you? I'd say it depends upon whether the total cache experience is going to change much. If it's substantially the same cache, with stages shifted 50 -100 feet at each point, I'd just move things a bit, not archive. If there's a major move, then archive and start again. You can use the same area.

 

I like briansnat's suggestion that you leave it disabled a bit, after removing the containers. I did this with a small trading cache of mine that was found by local children. I removed it and left it disabled a couple of months (with a note so the reviewer understood I wasn't abandoning the area) I finally replaced the trading cache with a camo'ed micro in the same spot. It's been okay since.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Isonzo Karst

[Luckless]

I had/have a two stage puzzle cache that was muggled. It was in an area well traveled by kids so I knew, once found, replacing the cache was not an option because it would probably just get muggled again. The first stage is in the same location because it was a location where you gathered information off a sign to figure out where the cache was. I moved the cache site about seventy feet and it's been fine.

 

I suppose there is always going to be a chance of a cache being compromised by kids. Kids being kids. Some local cachers are enjoying teaching caching to school kids. They teach them about the secret nature of geocaching and stress to the kids not to let others know where caches are. Together the kids have hidden their own caches so maybe by having a cache of their own the kids can better understand the need for secrecy.

[+Not the Mama!]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm still open for suggestions.

 

The cache uses all premium containers, so are not cheap & the final cache is medium sized & has some nice goodies.

 

My thoughts are to keep the same caching experience, same number & probably the same actual cache containers, just in different places. Therefore as suggested, I could just change the cache co-ordinates.

 

I'm not sure that I can just leave the containers in the same places - knowing that a load of 13 year-olds know the location?

[+Isonzo Karst]

I'm not sure that I can just leave the containers in the same places - knowing that a load of 13 year-olds know the location?

 

I wouldn't, especially as the containers are premium. Film cans perhaps. But the other issue is the experience of cache seekers. The odds on any given hunt ending in a DNF are too high. And you'll never know if the container disappeared by means of weather, or an inquisitive rodent, or was taken by a child. I'd disable, remove, leave it disabled a bit, then replace in somewhat different locations - trying to preserve the original feel as much as possible.

[Neos2]

I'm not sure that I can just leave the containers in the same places - knowing that a load of 13 year-olds know the location?

 

I wouldn't, especially as the containers are premium. Film cans perhaps. But the other issue is the experience of cache seekers. The odds on any given hunt ending in a DNF are too high. And you'll never know if the container disappeared by means of weather, or an inquisitive rodent, or was taken by a child. I'd disable, remove, leave it disabled a bit, then replace in somewhat different locations - trying to preserve the original feel as much as possible.

I agree with Isonzo Karst--I would definitely move the containers at least 30-50 feet each. Kids might look within a 10 foot area or so thinking they didn't really remember where it was, but most wouldn't keep searching everywhere for it (or if one does, turn that kid into a cacher!).

 

I'd also consider removing them entirely for at least a month --perhaps until school starts again and the young ones will have other things on their minds.

 

Another option is to get all the kids together for a picnic and teach them about caching. Let them use your gps to hunt down a few caches you place in the general area temporarily (you can even make a fake cache page to print out for them to use). Perhaps even let them all bring one inexpensive item to stock a cache you really place that day and submbit it under a group caching name they choose (linked to your caching account but change the name when you submit it). Maybe if they feel some investment in the game themselves, they will respect any caches they find from now on.

 

You know your daughter's friends best--would that be a good idea?

[+Team GeoBlast]

You know your daughter's friends best--would that be a good idea?

 

If there wasn't something about the kids that went on this hunt that concerned you, this wouldn't be an issue worthy of a forum post. There's really not too many mechanical options other than; keep same, move same, disable and restart in a month, archive and forget it, or archive and start over. It sounds like making it unfindable by previous finders by moving the stages will help you sleep better so I'd go with disable, wait, and rehide with enough variation of a location to make a new search necessary.

[+Lotho]

Leave it a week. Really curious kids would go check it out in under a week surely. Then when you place it back i doubt you will get them coming again, especially if they have seen it is no longer there(from when u pulled it.)

[+Not the Mama!]

Thanks very much for all your replies. My daughter started a new school last August, so is still making new friends. I've now pulled the caches & disabled the listing.

 

As recommended, I will leave it disabled for a few weeks & then place each cache in a new location but within the same general area. Each cache will have the same type of hide as previously to keep the same cache hunting experience.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Mayhaps it's not so much an issue of cache safety as it is of your attitude towards kids!

 

I take totally the opposite approach, going to schools and kid's church and Scout groups to introduce and teach geocaching, I invite them to events, place caches specifically stocked with kid stuff, and have only once had a bad thing happen to a cache that could be attributed to them.

 

One of my caches at a nearby Little League park was accidentally discovered by kids and twice taken... both times it was returned with all contents intact, the second time with an apology note from the kid's Mom explaining that he didn't know what it was. I put a note in it asking that it be left in place and encouraging kids to log their find and it stayed in place.

 

When I am out caching and see a family or group of kids nearby I almost always explain the game and invite them to hold my GPS and help hunt for the cache.

 

I am a ham radio operator and work civic event radio communications. At a recent 100-mile bike ride there was a Scout troop manning the refreshment station where I was located. Between servicing the bikers I explained our game, gave them a geocache I had in the truck and helped them get it hidden and listed. I encouraged them to tell other kids about it to get families involved in the game.

 

In fact my experience with muggled caches convinces me that it is a geocacher doing it most of the time!

 

With three natural and three adopted kids ranging from 17 to 35 I can't imagine being afraid of what they or their friends might do!

[+Renegade Knight]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm still open for suggestions.

 

The cache uses all premium containers, so are not cheap & the final cache is medium sized & has some nice goodies.

 

My thoughts are to keep the same caching experience, same number & probably the same actual cache containers, just in different places. Therefore as suggested, I could just change the cache co-ordinates.

 

I'm not sure that I can just leave the containers in the same places - knowing that a load of 13 year-olds know the location?

Kids are like rats. The got a kick out of compromising the cache. They will look at random where they got lucky last time hoping to get lucky again, the same way a rat will press a lever over and over because they got some food from doing that once.

 

The locaiton is compromised. When school kids did that to one of my caches, I tried to replace it and that failed. A couple of years later I tried again and the kid had moved on to pressing a new lever. That cache, in that location won't last. Time to try something new until enough time has passed.

[+Renegade Knight]

Mayhaps it's not so much an issue of cache safety as it is of your attitude towards kids!...

 

The caching being MIA doesn't depend on her attitude towards kids. She can love them to bits and the cache is still gone. I'm glad you have better luck in general.

[Skippermark]

I'm with TAR on this one. Unless the kids clearly started destroying it, I'm not sure the reason to take the container and or archive the cache unless it has something of value like a lot of coins.

 

I'm also not sure what is considered a premium container. A friend has a puzzle cache that used a $50 da Vinci decoding container, but most containers are matchstick holders and lock and locks, not really that expensive. Even ammo boxes are only $5 or $6.

 

We've had kids approach us while caching. Sometimes they're alone with a couple friends riding their bikes or whatever and will tag along and help find the cache. Other times, they're with their parents, and sometimes their parents ask if the kids can come along while we find it.

 

I've seen notes in some caches where kids have found the cache accidentally while playing and said they took one of the toys and left something else...sure enough, the trade was in there.

 

Kids are naturally inquisitive and curious, and I don't think they're generally destructive.

[Skippermark]

Mayhaps it's not so much an issue of cache safety as it is of your attitude towards kids!...

 

The caching being MIA doesn't depend on her attitude towards kids. She can love them to bits and the cache is still gone. I'm glad you have better luck in general.

 

The cache isn't missing. There was just a concern that it would go missing. I think TAR was saying to give the kids some credit, that they're probably not going to do anything to it.

[+ThePetersTrio]

Well all I can say is that it only takes 1 kid to destroy a cache. A few years ago my daughter - who was 7 or 8 at the time, told a friend of hers where she'd gone on a caching journey with us one time and this friend told her older brother who found the cache in no time and broke it open. Thankfully there were no travelers in it at the time and the cache has since been archived (although not because of this incident).

 

My daughter learned a very valuable caching lesson from this experience and to this day she has never told another person where any cache is hidden. I still feel bad about the destruction of that cache though.

[+infiniteMPG]

As recommended, I will leave it disabled for a few weeks & then place each cache in a new location but within the same general area. Each cache will have the same type of hide as previously to keep the same cache hunting experience.

I deifnitely wouldn't archive and start over as you would loose the log entries to the sands of time unless you chang the containers, camo or locations enough to warrant it being a new cache. Then archiving and starting over would be a better bet so the people that found it before could try the new challenge (and get a reward from it). I'd say the amount of change you make should help you decide to leave it or start over.

 

Will your daughter search for it again and then ask Daddy what happened to it? And if so, what will Daddy say?

[+Team GeoBlast]

Mayhaps it's not so much an issue of cache safety as it is of your attitude towards kids!

 

Yikes! Maybe somebody should have impressed on you to play nice as a kid and today you'd be nicer to people in the forums.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+Team GeoBlast]

Kids are like rats. The got a kick out of compromising the cache.

 

Not sure that this is fair. I have never seen a rat get a kick out of compromising a cache before.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Mayhaps it's not so much an issue of cache safety as it is of your attitude towards kids!

 

Yikes! Maybe somebody should have impressed on you to play nice as a kid and today you'd be nicer to people in the forums.

I don't see how you can interpret that as being in any way unkind, perhaps I am missing something... if so I apologize.

 

I seriously doubt that you'll ever meet a nicer guy than I, so it always catches me by surprise when someone reads hostility into one of my posts. Maybe one who is better spoken or more politically correct, but those around me this last 50+ years seem to think that I am a pretty decent fellow!

 

All I was trying to say is that if one's attitude towards or feelings about kids is one of distrust and suspicion then that would lead one to worry unduly about kids becoming aware of a cache.

 

Or something.

 

Certainly no insult intended on my part.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Mayhaps it's not so much an issue of cache safety as it is of your attitude towards kids!

 

Yikes! Maybe somebody should have impressed on you to play nice as a kid and today you'd be nicer to people in the forums.

I don't see how you can interpret that as being in any way unkind, perhaps I am missing something... if so I apologize.

 

I seriously doubt that you'll ever meet a nicer guy than I, so it always catches me by surprise when someone reads hostility into one of my posts. Maybe one who is better spoken or more politically correct, but those around me this last 50+ years seem to think that I am a pretty decent fellow!

 

All I was trying to say is that if one's attitude towards or feelings about kids is one of distrust and suspicion then that would lead one to worry unduly about kids becoming aware of a cache.

 

Or something.

 

Certainly no insult intended on my part.

 

I'm glad I read it wrong. You do seem like a nice person.

[Neos2]

Mayhaps it's not so much an issue of cache safety as it is of your attitude towards kids!

 

Yikes! Maybe somebody should have impressed on you to play nice as a kid and today you'd be nicer to people in the forums.

I don't see how you can interpret that as being in any way unkind, perhaps I am missing something... if so I apologize.

 

I seriously doubt that you'll ever meet a nicer guy than I, so it always catches me by surprise when someone reads hostility into one of my posts. Maybe one who is better spoken or more politically correct, but those around me this last 50+ years seem to think that I am a pretty decent fellow!

 

All I was trying to say is that if one's attitude towards or feelings about kids is one of distrust and suspicion then that would lead one to worry unduly about kids becoming aware of a cache.

 

Or something.

 

Certainly no insult intended on my part.

 

I'm glad I read it wrong. You do seem like a nice person.

He is---and he sings a good bass part around a campfire, too.

[+PhxChem]

What fun is this forum if people are just going to get along and try to understand each other?

 

Luckily my kids are less than 2 years old....5 seconds after the cache is found, he has a toy (swag) in his hand........any memory of an actual cache or its location have been erased....