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DNF Etiquette


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Being a neophyte at geocaching (but loving every minute of it!), I would like to ask about the etiquette of logging a DNF. There are times when I can locate a cache quickly and others when I have to pace and ponder and ultimately return to cache another day. Should I log a DNF each time I am unsuccessful in locating a cache due purely to my inexperience? Or should I log a DNF when I'm absolutely out of ideas as to where to locate it?

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If you looked and Did Not Find, log a DNF. If you just casually looked for the cache as you passed by, well maybe not then.

 

Logging DNF's is your way of saying I looked for cache x and couldn't find it this time. Maybe it's gone or maybe you just didn't see it. Either way you didn't find it.

I've logged DNF's only to return in a few days to find that it was right in front of me the whole time. Then again there is one cache where a have logged at least a half dozen DNF's. (I need to go log another one or find it. I have not looked for it in several months now.)

DNF's are not failures they are just reminders of where you've been.

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I don't always log a DNF if I don't find a cache. It depends for me. If I tried real hard to find a cache but had no luck, I'll DNF, but if am just casually looking (not in the mood to search HARD) I won't bother DNF'ing because I didn't try my best to find the cache.

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It's important for us urban hiders to see the DNF reports... it keeps the next person from searching in vain and sends a red flag that encourages me to check on it the next time i swing by that area.

 

My brother doesn't log his DNFs. It drives me nuts because if it weren't for my mother who was with him when he DNF'ed my caches, I would never have known they were missing.

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If I arrive at ground zero and start active searching I log a DNF for the first trip. I usually don't log future DNFs unless something unusual happens, or I've REALLY given the area a thorough seaching and am convinced that the cache is missing or something is wrong.

 

For example, I went after a local 4-star cache with no luck. I posted a DNF. It happened to be located near my office, so I went out at lunch periodically and did a little hunting. I made maybe a dozen individual trips to and through the area. Logging a dozen DNF saying "Looked again on my way to a meeting, no luck." and "Another 5 minutes looking with no find." would have been pointless. It turns out the cache was missing the entire time.

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.... I went after a local 4-star cache with no luck. I posted a DNF. It happened to be located near my office, so I went out at lunch periodically and did a little hunting. I made maybe a dozen individual trips to and through the area. Logging a dozen DNF saying "Looked again on my way to a meeting, no luck." and "Another 5 minutes looking with no find." would have been pointless. It turns out the cache was missing the entire time.

Maybe the owner would have known that sooner had you posted the DNFs????

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.... I went after a local 4-star cache with no luck. I posted a DNF. It happened to be located near my office, so I went out at lunch periodically and did a little hunting. I made maybe a dozen individual trips to and through the area. Logging a dozen DNF saying "Looked again on my way to a meeting, no luck." and "Another 5 minutes looking with no find." would have been pointless. It turns out the cache was missing the entire time.

Maybe the owner would have known that sooner had you posted the DNFs????
I doubt it, because this guy owns several hundred caches and doesn't read every log. Even if he did read every log, he would have just gotten annoyed after receiving so many from me. And I did notify him directly by email (in the process of asking for a hint after several hunts), just not in public on the page (which already had half a dozen DNF's from other people). Also, what good is a DNF on a 4-star after 5 minutes of looking? That's just a waste of electrons. Finally, I did log a DNF after my last hunt, after searching every nook and cranny of the area for over an hour (in addition to also forwarding that log to him in a direct email).

 

I do believe you should post the first DNF, and you should definitely keep the owner informed of any new development, but I think cluttering the page with multiple DNF's in a row from the same person is kinda pointless.

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I usually log a DNF for every cache I attempt. If the road is closed and I can't get to the area to search, then no, I won't log one.

 

But, if I get there and search and don't find it, then I log one.

 

I've seen notes by people who "refuse to write a DNF because I found it, but couldn't get to it. It was in plain site so I'm only writing a note..."

 

That, to me is still a DNF.

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.... I went after a local 4-star cache with no luck. I posted a DNF. It happened to be located near my office, so I went out at lunch periodically and did a little hunting. I made maybe a dozen individual trips to and through the area. Logging a dozen DNF saying "Looked again on my way to a meeting, no luck." and "Another 5 minutes looking with no find." would have been pointless. It turns out the cache was missing the entire time.

Maybe the owner would have known that sooner had you posted the DNFs????
I doubt it, because this guy owns several hundred caches and doesn't read every log. Even if he did read every log, he would have just gotten annoyed after receiving so many from me. And I did notify him directly by email (in the process of asking for a hint after several hunts), just not in public on the page (which already had half a dozen DNF's from other people). Also, what good is a DNF on a 4-star after 5 minutes of looking? That's just a waste of electrons. Finally, I did log a DNF after my last hunt, after searching every nook and cranny of the area for over an hour (in addition to also forwarding that log to him in a direct email).

 

I do believe you should post the first DNF, and you should definitely keep the owner informed of any new development, but I think cluttering the page with multiple DNF's in a row from the same person is kinda pointless.

 

It wouldn't be for me if I were the cache owner. I'd want to know if someone tried 4 or 5 times. If I thought

perhaps he was just missing it, I'd offer an extra hint, or it would give me a clue that perhaps I ought to check on it.

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Around these forums, every time this question comes up, most people seem to reply that they always log a DNF.

 

Out in the field, my experience is that a lot of people do not log DNFs. Sometimes it's because they are too lazy, sometimes it's because they plan on coming back to try again (and havent yet admitted defeat), sometimes it's because they have a different idea about what a DNF represents and sometimes it's because they are embarassed to admit they couldn't find the cache.

 

I'd estimate that maybe only half of all DNFs are logged. It's impossible to know for sure whether my guess is accurate.

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Logging a dozen DNFs...would have been pointless.
Maybe the owner would have known that sooner had you posted the DNFs????
Also, what good is a DNF on a 4-star after 5 minutes of looking? That's just a waste of electrons... I think cluttering the page with multiple DNF's in a row from the same person is kinda pointless.
It depends on how you log them. Although it tends to goof up the cache page, if I go back and DNF the same cache again, I copy and paste the original DNF with the date into my newest DNF log (which gives additional information) and then I delete the original DNF.

 

And, as a cache owner of "quite a few", I read and savor each log--whether DNF or found.

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I think you should log your dnf's ... all of them... it is like a badge of honor ... sometimes I get a chuckle out of how dumb I was....

 

It really helps the owner with maintenance (missing ..maybe they can offer a hint, or maybe it was rehidden in correctly) I know every dnf on my cache, I was out there checking on it....it was a nice hike and l liked the area, and stage one could've been moved by an active searcher and might not be where it was intended.

 

It also lets the future seeker know it may be a problem....

 

Example of helping the owner: GC13KW3

 

Example of my own stupidity: GC115YM - gives you a chuckle or it does me...dang paperless cachers

 

Example of not finding a cache MULTIPLE TIMES...but it is there: GCYE91

 

Just my two cents...

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Around these forums, every time this question comes up, most people seem to reply that they always log a DNF.

 

Out in the field, my experience is that a lot of people do not log DNFs. Sometimes it's because they are too lazy, sometimes it's because they plan on coming back to try again (and havent yet admitted defeat), sometimes it's because they have a different idea about what a DNF represents and sometimes it's because they are embarassed to admit they couldn't find the cache.

 

I'd estimate that maybe only half of all DNFs are logged. It's impossible to know for sure whether my guess is accurate.

A DNF doesn't - or shouldn't - carry any negative connotations. It is simply a record of a search and isn't admitting defeat in any way. Everyone plays the game in their own unique fashion. I log every visit to a cache as a Found It, DNF or Note. It is a part of my caching history.

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All of the replies, albeit with various perspectives, are valid and noted. It has definitely given me a better understanding of the value of logging a DNF. Until I get a little better at first-attempt finds, I will just be a noob geocacher and log each visit - regardless of the outcome! :)

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Just think of it this way. Say a cache is actually missing. Cacher A comes along and doesn't log a DNF because he's a newb and doesn't want to alarm the owner. Cacher B comes along and doesn't log a DNF because he plans to come back again. Cacher C comes along and logs a DNF. Cacher D comes along and doesn't log a DNF because he didn't search very long.

 

Now we have 4 DNFs and the cache owner should be checking on his cache, but he only knows about one DNF. Few cache owners will check on a cache after 1 DNF, but once there are 3 in a row I think most become aware that there might be a problem that requires a visit. By not logging your DNF it takes longer for the pattern of DNFs to develop.

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I'm a noob as well, but I'm trying to "behave" how I think most geocaching vets would want me to: I log every find or DNF. I also agree with the "badge of honor" thing that steel city babes mentioned.

 

Also, we've had a TON of flooding here in southern WI for the past week, and I'm certain that there will be several misplaced or vanished caches literally floating around WI for the next several weeks. So as the state dries out and we all get back into the swing of things, cache owners all across the state are going to be needing to do a lot of cache maintainence and/or replacement. One way for them to do that is for responsible cachers to log each and every "Find" or "DNF".

 

Do the right thing. If you gave it serious effort, log your attempt, whether you were successful or not. In cases like this, being embarassed by a DNF is not good. Your efforts will help everyone attached to this "sport" enjoy it more.

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My theory is that if I get to the coordinates and cannot find a cache, it's a DNF. If I have to turn back prior to reaching said coordinates for reasons beyond my control (construction, pile o' muggles in area, etc), I don't. Of course, if I don't get to the coords because I CHOOSE not to get closer (ie: too wet and I'm wearing work-clothes), I'll post a DNF for that one.

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It wouldn't be for me if I were the cache owner. I'd want to know if someone tried 4 or 5 times. If I thought

perhaps he was just missing it, I'd offer an extra hint, or it would give me a clue that perhaps I ought to check on it.

 

I agree. For my hides, I setup my email program to filter DNFs and finds, so as soon as a message appears in the DNF folder, I look at it right away because it means there could be a problem.

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this guy owns several hundred caches and doesn't read every log. Even if he did read every log, he would have just gotten annoyed after receiving so many from me.

 

Logs not only serve to notify owners that there's a problem with the cache, but they also serve as a history for the cache. By logging a DNF every time you go to the cache, you're giving a true account of the cache's history, indicating that it was visited X number of times.

 

If I hid what I thought was a really hard cache, I'd like to see a DNF every time someone goes there because that would show a true indication of it's hardness. If you see only 1 DNF for every 2 finds, that makes it seem easier than if there are 5 DNFs for every find.

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Out in the field, my experience is that a lot of people do not log DNFs. Sometimes it's because they are too lazy, sometimes it's because they plan on coming back to try again (and havent yet admitted defeat), sometimes it's because they have a different idea about what a DNF represents and sometimes it's because they are embarassed to admit they couldn't find the cache.

 

I agree with that. I've been caching with different people, and we can't find a cache but I end up being the only one who logs a DNF. The owner sees my lone DNF and figures I just couldn't find it, but if the 4 others logged a DNF, then the owner might realize that there's a problem with the 1/1 lamppost cache all by itself in the middle of the parking lot and go check it.

 

I don't consider a DNF defeat. I'm simply saying I couldn't find it, even if I plan to come back.

 

Again, as a cache owner, if I hid a new cache, I'd like to know that X amount of people tried to find it but couldn't, even if they plan to come back rather than seeing nothing on the cache page at all, even though people were really there.

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Few cache owners will check on a cache after 1 DNF, but once there are 3 in a row I think most become aware that there might be a problem that requires a visit. By not logging your DNF it takes longer for the pattern of DNFs to develop.

 

True. Around here, at least for the easily accessible caches, if you see a DNF or two followed by a long period of inactivity it usually indicates more people have been looking for the cache, not finding it and not logging anything.

 

I owned a cache that was being found every three or four days for the first three months of its life and then suddenly went silent. I didn't notice that it hadn't been seeing any logs until a newbie cacher logged a DNF on it. At that point I figured it was gone so I disabled it, checked on it and found it MIA. A good example of how logging a DNF helps the community.

 

If I am able to give a good search and don't come up with the cache I'll DNF it. If my search is in some way compromised due to muggle activity or a lack of time or whatever I'll post a Note just so the owner knows someone was there.

 

The only other exception I make is if I am hunting in a group of three or four cachers and we all DNF. If others in the group have logged their DNFs I don't see the point in "piling on" because all those consecutive DNFs will cause the cache to get removed by a lot of peoples GSAK filters.

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The great thing about Geocaching is everyone has their own rules that they abide by within the framework laid out by Geocaching.com (and other web sites)

 

As for DNF... I actually had to log a DNF on MY OWN CACHE! Someone posted a DNF on the cache (it's in a high traffic area known as Central Park! So since it does disappear quite offten I went to check it out, sure enough it was gone...or so I thought... Posted a note that it was gone and would replace and then someone posted a "Found it" log and sent me a private note telling me where it was. Sure enough there was a crevice in the tree that I had never felt before when replacing the cache numerous times before! I changed my note to a DNF.

Edited by stipman
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Certainly it's true that not all DNFs are created equal. The owner can see your find count and take into account if you're a newbie. I try to write something about the circumstances and how thoroughly I looked, to give the owner more information.

 

Recently someone logged that one of my caches was missing. I was annoyed because he only did a log and not a DNF, said he had looked for it several times (without a DNF), said he'd talked with a previous finder to verify it missing but didn't identify that other finder so that I could judge by reputation. But he did give all that detail, particularly about consulting a previous finder, so I swallowed the annoyances and disabled it until I could check on it. (And it was missing.)

 

Edward

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