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Has there been a change in what GC considers Ground Zero?


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I noticed a few Ground Zero caches in my area recently temporarily disabled. The note says due to a recent change, the caches are now unfindable.

 

To further investigate what they might be talking about, I pulled out a Ground Zero cache page that I had worked on before, but was unable to get to by boat due to low water levels. The cache owner had confirmed I had GZ correct, thus my waypoint #1 was correct.

 

When I use the method now for obtaining ground zero, it only puts a mark on a Yahoo map. It doesn't give coordinates. AND the mark is now different than where it used to be.

 

Anyone else experiencing this?

Edited by wandering4cache
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In some of the release notes, I believe they mentioned changing the way the bearing was calculated due to problems with division by zero, etc. Maybe now that they're using a different formula it's calculating the distances differently?

 

That could be as well, but when I try to change my home coordinates, the icon is displayed in a different location than where it was when the local GZ caches were placed.

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Hm. Perhaps I'm confused about what you're talking about, but my cache, 98801, seems fine.

 

What do you use to determine the coordinates for a zipcode? Is it the same as what *Groundspeak" uses?

 

I had thought about placing a cache at the coordinates for my zipcode but then read that often the coordinate for a zipcode is the location of a post office and I figured that might not be the best place to hide a cache.

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I just checked the coordinates on geocaching for my ground zero in Rochdale, MA 01542 and they are the same as last year. Maybe there was a problem in doing the calculations only for certain zip codes but not for all.

 

I just checked my zip code, and the next one over, and I don't believe anything has changed.

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My guess would be that ground zero is an arbitrary point determined by the map makers. Some may use the population center, some may use the post office, some may use the geographical center based on town or city boundaries. When they changed the map maker they use this could have changed some ground zeros. In the case of the geographical center it could change with every annexation.

 

Just a guess of course.

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The problem is that the geocaching.com pages now provide several methods to obtain the GZ coordinates, but they do not all give the same result, even for a single town/zip-code. So it's possible to get the same GZ coords that you got last year or the year before -- if you use the same method to get them. But if you try one of the other methods, you don't always get the same result.

 

edit: also, one of the original methods for obtaining GZ coords has been removed from the gc.com pages. I'm not sure if that method produced the coords matching any of the current methods, or if that method produced yet a different set.

Edited by the hermit crabs
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I disabled my Granby, GZ 01033 cache yesterday after seeing one that I did last month also disabled. When I checked the coord's yesterday for 01033 from what I used when I set the cache up there is now a 562 ft difference......

 

Also noticed if you were to go to update your home coord's and use the dropdown menu on the next page and search by Geocode address you get 2 different results when you search by city or town and by zip code... :o

 

But also found and confirmed by another cacher who emailed me if you do a search for caches by zip code and then use the map it feature it gives you the Lat & Long in the URL address and once converted the results give me the correct starting coord's for the final of my GZ cache.....

Edited by chief20r2
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The problem is that the geocaching.com pages now provide several methods to obtain the GZ coordinates, but they do not all give the same result, even for a single town/zip-code. So it's possible to get the same GZ coords that you got last year or the year before -- if you use the same method to get them. But if you try one of the other methods, you don't always get the same result.

 

edit: also, one of the original methods for obtaining GZ coords has been removed from the gc.com pages. I'm not sure if that method produced the coords matching any of the current methods, or if that method produced yet a different set.

 

Interesting. If I enter Ithaca, NY into the "Address" search on the Hide and Seek a Cache page I get:

 

42.444586, -076.4999259

 

If I enter "Ithaca, NY 14850" I get:

 

42.406709, -076.518425

 

That's no where near the center of town.

 

If I enter 14850 in the zipcode field, the coordinates are not displayed in the url so I don't know

exactly what coordinate is used as the center point for the search.

 

finally, if I go to any cache and click on "other conversions", the select list includes "Geocode Address", apparently a geocoding web service by Yahoo, which gives me still another location.

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Hm. Perhaps I'm confused about what you're talking about, but my cache, 98801, seems fine.

Your cache is fine as is mine. But since we can't put in zip codes under My Account, update home coordinates I can't find the coordinates of yours or you of mine, Rochdale: 01542. Well, at least not likely the coordinates we used when placing the caches a while ago.

Edited by Mountainprof
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The problem is that the geocaching.com pages now provide several methods to obtain the GZ coordinates, but they do not all give the same result, even for a single town/zip-code. So it's possible to get the same GZ coords that you got last year or the year before -- if you use the same method to get them. But if you try one of the other methods, you don't always get the same result.

 

edit: also, one of the original methods for obtaining GZ coords has been removed from the gc.com pages. I'm not sure if that method produced the coords matching any of the current methods, or if that method produced yet a different set.

 

Interesting. If I enter Ithaca, NY into the "Address" search on the Hide and Seek a Cache page I get:

 

42.444586, -076.4999259

 

If I enter "Ithaca, NY 14850" I get:

 

42.406709, -076.518425

 

That's no where near the center of town.

 

If I enter 14850 in the zipcode field, the coordinates are not displayed in the url so I don't know

exactly what coordinate is used as the center point for the search.

 

finally, if I go to any cache and click on "other conversions", the select list includes "Geocode Address", apparently a geocoding web service by Yahoo, which gives me still another location.

 

I just did a zip code search on 14850 and it returned 42.4471 -76.4957. That's a third set of numbers for you to use. :lol:

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Hm. Perhaps I'm confused about what you're talking about, but my cache, 98801, seems fine.

Your cache is fine as is mine. But since we can't put in zip codes under My Account, update home coordinates I can't find the coordinates of yours or you of mine, Rochdale: 01542. Well, at least not likely the coordinates we used when placing the caches a while ago.

Are you assuming that to be the only way to get the coords?

 

Go to the Hide and Seek a Cache page and put the zip code into the correct field, then press the Go button.

A list of caches will be displayed and at the top right of the page is an icon that says Map It. Click that icon and you'll go to a map.

In the URL of the resulting map page you can see the coords for the zip code.

 

For 01542 I get Lat 42.1976 Long -71.9056. Is this correct?

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You can still do the zip code search from the home page of the site - not sure why several are focusing on the spot under update home coordinates. I am missing something???

Because that was the uniform method used previously, at least in this part of the country. At one time, you received "wrong" answers using other methods. Now you don't get the "right" answer using that method, thus making it impossible to find a GZ cache unless you are aware of this recent change. That's why I started the thread.

Edited by wandering4cache
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You can still do the zip code search from the home page of the site - not sure why several are focusing on the spot under update home coordinates. I am missing something???

Because that was the uniform method used previously, at least in this part of the country. At one time, you received "wrong" answers using other methods. Now you don't get the "right" answer using that method, thus making it impossible to find a GZ cache unless you are aware of this recent change. That's why I started the thread.

Interesting.....since the home page is so accessible - it would never occur to me to steer a cacher elsewhere.

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You can still do the zip code search from the home page of the site - not sure why several are focusing on the spot under update home coordinates. I am missing something???

 

Think you might be missing the point of the thread........ It's not about searching for caches by zip code or zip code search....... :D

 

All Ground Zero caches are based on the baseline coord's for a city or town by zip code. Before the recent changes you were able to go to update home coord's and enter the zip code for any city or town to obtain these baseline coord's then you add a distance and bearing offset to these baseline coord's to obtain the coord's to the cache... Simple and easy method.....

 

Now this option is no longer available and the coord's you get now using the Geocode drop down option either by city and state or zip code are not the same making all GZ caches impossible to find.

 

If you do a search by city and state you get one set of coord's and if you do just the zip code for that city you get a different set of coord's... :D with both sets being wrong......

 

Did find another way to obtain the correct baseline coord's though. From the home page do a search by zip code and in the URL address it gives you the Lat & Long....... Once I converted these it gave me the exact baseline coord's I used when I set up my ground zero cache

Edited by chief20r2
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Well, doing a city search and doing a zip code search has always given different results from each other. That's the whole point of a series of caches that I've placed, one of them being the cache that I posted earlier.

 

I'm not sure what to say about the coordinates being off from what they were before, though. :D

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You can still do the zip code search from the home page of the site - not sure why several are focusing on the spot under update home coordinates. I am missing something???

 

Think you might be missing the point of the thread........ It's not about searching for caches by zip code or zip code search....... :D

 

All Ground Zero caches are based on the baseline coord's for a city or town by zip code. Before the recent changes you were able to go to update home coord's and enter the zip code for any city or town to obtain these baseline coord's then you add a distance and bearing offset to these baseline coord's to obtain the coord's to the cache... Simple and easy method.....

 

Now this option is no longer available and the coord's you get now using the Geocode drop down option either by city and state or zip code are not the same making all GZ caches impossible to find.

 

If you do a search by city and state you get one set of coord's and if you do just the zip code for that city you get a different set of coord's... :D with both sets being wrong......

 

Did find another way to obtain the correct baseline coord's though. From the home page do a search by zip code and in the URL address it gives you the Lat & Long....... Once I converted these it gave me the exact baseline coord's I used when I set up my ground zero cache

 

Thank you for explaining that better than I had done.

 

NOW, what do we do about all the GZ caches out there? Do we spread the word on the new method to locate existing caches? In an email from MountainProf, he mentioned possibly adding geochecker to the page TO CONFIRM GZ coordinates (NOT THE CACHE LOCATION). I like that idea since we seem to have about 4 different sets of coordinates now for GZ. lol

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You can still do the zip code search from the home page of the site - not sure why several are focusing on the spot under update home coordinates. I am missing something???

 

Think you might be missing the point of the thread........ It's not about searching for caches by zip code or zip code search....... :D

 

All Ground Zero caches are based on the baseline coord's for a city or town by zip code. Before the recent changes you were able to go to update home coord's and enter the zip code for any city or town to obtain these baseline coord's then you add a distance and bearing offset to these baseline coord's to obtain the coord's to the cache... Simple and easy method.....

 

Now this option is no longer available and the coord's you get now using the Geocode drop down option either by city and state or zip code are not the same making all GZ caches impossible to find.

 

If you do a search by city and state you get one set of coord's and if you do just the zip code for that city you get a different set of coord's... :D with both sets being wrong......

 

Did find another way to obtain the correct baseline coord's though. From the home page do a search by zip code and in the URL address it gives you the Lat & Long....... Once I converted these it gave me the exact baseline coord's I used when I set up my ground zero cache

no actually I do understand it - do a zipcode search from the home page - then on the search page - hover your mouse over the "search for caches with google maps" link - in the url is the coordinates - I believe those are the same as they always were.......

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You can still do the zip code search from the home page of the site - not sure why several are focusing on the spot under update home coordinates. I am missing something???

 

Think you might be missing the point of the thread........ It's not about searching for caches by zip code or zip code search....... :D

 

All Ground Zero caches are based on the baseline coord's for a city or town by zip code. Before the recent changes you were able to go to update home coord's and enter the zip code for any city or town to obtain these baseline coord's then you add a distance and bearing offset to these baseline coord's to obtain the coord's to the cache... Simple and easy method.....

 

Now this option is no longer available and the coord's you get now using the Geocode drop down option either by city and state or zip code are not the same making all GZ caches impossible to find.

 

If you do a search by city and state you get one set of coord's and if you do just the zip code for that city you get a different set of coord's... :D with both sets being wrong......

 

Did find another way to obtain the correct baseline coord's though. From the home page do a search by zip code and in the URL address it gives you the Lat & Long....... Once I converted these it gave me the exact baseline coord's I used when I set up my ground zero cache

 

Thank you for explaining that better than I had done.

 

NOW, what do we do about all the GZ caches out there? Do we spread the word on the new method to locate existing caches? In an email from MountainProf, he mentioned possibly adding geochecker to the page TO CONFIRM GZ coordinates (NOT THE CACHE LOCATION). I like that idea since we seem to have about 4 different sets of coordinates now for GZ. lol

 

I have also added Geochecker to mine as well and I know MountainProf has done so from our exchange of emails earlier today........

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You can still do the zip code search from the home page of the site - not sure why several are focusing on the spot under update home coordinates. I am missing something???

 

Think you might be missing the point of the thread........ It's not about searching for caches by zip code or zip code search....... :D

 

All Ground Zero caches are based on the baseline coord's for a city or town by zip code. Before the recent changes you were able to go to update home coord's and enter the zip code for any city or town to obtain these baseline coord's then you add a distance and bearing offset to these baseline coord's to obtain the coord's to the cache... Simple and easy method.....

 

Now this option is no longer available and the coord's you get now using the Geocode drop down option either by city and state or zip code are not the same making all GZ caches impossible to find.

 

If you do a search by city and state you get one set of coord's and if you do just the zip code for that city you get a different set of coord's... :D with both sets being wrong......

 

Did find another way to obtain the correct baseline coord's though. From the home page do a search by zip code and in the URL address it gives you the Lat & Long....... Once I converted these it gave me the exact baseline coord's I used when I set up my ground zero cache

no actually I do understand it - do a zipcode search from the home page - then on the search page - hover your mouse over the "search for caches with google maps" link - in the url is the coordinates - I believe those are the same as they always were.......

 

Yes, after you convert, they get you the same answer. AND it seems there are 4 methods. I guess OUR problem is then in INFORMING everyone here that the old method we were using no longer gets you the coordinates you need to find the cache. Nor do the other methods.

 

So, if you are not aware of this, you'll be using the old method & making trips out to a wrong site looking for a cache.

Edited by wandering4cache
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I have also added Geochecker to mine as well and I know MountainProf has done so from our exchange of emails earlier today........

 

I like that idea. At least no one is wasting gas driving out to the wrong place. And in the case of MountainProf's cache, not loading up the kayak for nothing too. lol

Edited by wandering4cache
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You can still do the zip code search from the home page of the site - not sure why several are focusing on the spot under update home coordinates. I am missing something???

 

Think you might be missing the point of the thread........ It's not about searching for caches by zip code or zip code search....... :D

 

All Ground Zero caches are based on the baseline coord's for a city or town by zip code. Before the recent changes you were able to go to update home coord's and enter the zip code for any city or town to obtain these baseline coord's then you add a distance and bearing offset to these baseline coord's to obtain the coord's to the cache... Simple and easy method.....

 

Now this option is no longer available and the coord's you get now using the Geocode drop down option either by city and state or zip code are not the same making all GZ caches impossible to find.

 

If you do a search by city and state you get one set of coord's and if you do just the zip code for that city you get a different set of coord's... :D with both sets being wrong......

 

Did find another way to obtain the correct baseline coord's though. From the home page do a search by zip code and in the URL address it gives you the Lat & Long....... Once I converted these it gave me the exact baseline coord's I used when I set up my ground zero cache

no actually I do understand it - do a zipcode search from the home page - then on the search page - hover your mouse over the "search for caches with google maps" link - in the url is the coordinates - I believe those are the same as they always were.......

 

Agree with you on doing it that way also........ But before the recent changes were made one didn't have to worry about converting the Lat & Long all you had to do is put in the zip code after you went to update your home coord's page and you had the coord's. :D

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Hm. Perhaps I'm confused about what you're talking about, but my cache, 98801, seems fine.

 

Of course yours are fine, it is not a GZ cache, it is a trad that you give coords. There is no mystery about it. Plus the method you used to decide where to place the trad, looking at the search by zip code, is not the method in question. Having done a few GZ caches I can attest they do not all use the same method.

 

The long and short of it is if you have a mystery cache that used the "update your home coords" method for determining GZ then you need to update your page to make it work with one of the remaining methods. Add a geochecker if you want, or make people work for it. My GZ cache in RI still works with one of the previously mentioned methods so no updating for me.

 

Loch Cache

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To TPTB:

 

In addition to the GZ mysteries there were other benefits to having the zip code wizard on the "Mark my Home Coordinates" page had other advantages. Is there any reason it can not be put back?

 

List of advantages:

1. When traveling to visit my parents I could quickly change my home coordinates by just putting in their zip.

2. If I quickly wanted to see where a town was located I could enter the zip and click for the map.

3. If you have PQs build around your home coords you can quickly change them for when you travel.

4. I am sure there are more...

 

List of disadvantages:

1. ???????????????????????????????????????????

 

Sincerly yours,

 

Loch cache

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Hm. Perhaps I'm confused about what you're talking about, but my cache, 98801, seems fine.

 

Of course yours are fine, it is not a GZ cache, it is a trad that you give coords. There is no mystery about it. Plus the method you used to decide where to place the trad, looking at the search by zip code, is not the method in question. Having done a few GZ caches I can attest they do not all use the same method.

 

The long and short of it is if you have a mystery cache that used the "update your home coords" method for determining GZ then you need to update your page to make it work with one of the remaining methods. Add a geochecker if you want, or make people work for it. My GZ cache in RI still works with one of the previously mentioned methods so no updating for me.

 

Loch Cache

I understand that now. :D:o

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The long and short of it is if you have a mystery cache that used the "update your home coords" method for determining GZ then you need to update your page to make it work with one of the remaining methods. Add a geochecker if you want, or make people work for it. My GZ cache in RI still works with one of the previously mentioned methods so no updating for me.

 

Loch Cache

 

It's fine to make people work for it but not everybody visits the forums to find the other methods and as W4C mentioned, with gas prices why have them waste there time and gas looking if there not even close.... :o

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I used to use the "Update home coordinates" link under "My Account Details" but, as others have mentioned, that option no longer exists. Recently I learned that I can get the same coordinates by going to "Set Up Notifications," "Create a New Notification," and "Look up Postal Code."

 

I tried this for several area zip codes and got the same coordinates I had originally obtained via the "Update home coordinates". The only change I made to my GZ puzzle cache was to add a non-encrypted hint notifying cachers that they can email me if they want to know how to obtain the necessary GZ coordinates.

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At the risk of giving away the farm, Geos of the Jungle has provided the easiest method to determine existing GZ caches. No fuss, no bother. I suggest that we go with that. In fact, it works so well that I am not changing a thing on my cache page. Thanks Geos.

 

Eight Foot Llama deserves the kudos on this. He mentioned this "alternative" method after I told him that the "Update home coordinates" method had been changed. Thanks, EFL!

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At the risk of giving away the farm, Geos of the Jungle has provided the easiest method to determine existing GZ caches. No fuss, no bother. I suggest that we go with that. In fact, it works so well that I am not changing a thing on my cache page. Thanks Geos.

 

Yes that is the easiest way... no converting the lat & long the other 2 ways mentioned.......

 

If however they don't know those ways or Not a" Premium Member " and use the update home coords as they may have done in the past and use the Geocode address they will never arrive at the correct coord's..... Going to leave the Geochecker on mine for the time being and see how things shake out.......

Edited by chief20r2
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Yes that is the easiest way... no converting the lat & long the other 2 ways mentioned.......

 

If however they don't know those ways and use the update home coords as they may have done in the past and use the Geocode address they will never arrive at the correct coord's..... Going to leave the Geochecker on mine for the time being and see how things shake out.......

 

Geochecker, PLEASE!

 

I remember when I was first learning about ground zero caches. I was googling all over the place & getting many different results. Now throw in 4 more results just from geocaching's site. :)

 

Ya know....this could get VERY MESSY!

Imagine this scenerio using a long time casual cacher. He doesn't read forums. Decides to hide a new ground zero cache ---- using the CURRENT results from "update home coordinates" because he's not aware of the change. So now we have some GZ caches that require one method & some caches that require another method to find correct coordinates. If everyone added geochecker, at least you would know you have the right ones before heading out.

 

Oh.....my head hurts just thinking about this. :D

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I have used the Hide-n-seek a cache to determine GZ by entering the name of the town (or village) the GZ is named after and looked on the map page for the coord. Now I never paid much attention to the zip code method the switch to maps. I checked on this tonight by using my home town Auburn Mass and then seperaretly the zip code 01501. The difference in the specified GZ coordds was about 3500 feet. That's a lot of ground to cover if looking for a cache. The 3 GZs I've done by using the town name has been successful to date.

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