Online Geo-stalkers

[+LifeOnEdge!]

I have been caching for nearly three years now and have about three years of finds under my belt. My very first geocache find (and the next 26) were in a state where I was temporarily working. I have since traveled, come back home, and revisited the state of temporary employment where I started this interesting hobby. During my last return visit, after attending two good friend's wedding, I stayed and cached for about 13 more weeks, enjoying the cooler weather, friends, and personal freedom.

 

As it happened last May and the summer before, this May/June I have been planning another geocaching trip and doing some research on caches. I keep up with the cache activities in this other state and correspond to several cachers who live there. While researching, I commonly either contact cache owners or post questions for what appears to be trouble caches in a written cache log. I also try to troubleshoot situations that I see as they arise.

 

Each spring, as I am doing my research, I have ruffled a few feathers with my queries. "What do you know about this cache?" "When do you expect it to be placed back out to be found?" (In this area, it is common for cache owners to disable their caches over the winter, pull them, place them back out in the spring, and enable their caches.) And other, similar questions, designed to gather information about potential caches and to make contact with some of the locals. Some percentage of cachers are offended by my questions. Some other percentage of cachers reach a tipping point and lash out with mean and hateful comments like "When you move here you can be worried about these things. Until then don't worry about it." One of my comments was followed up by another out-of-state cacher with a rude and hateful comment, trying to get this new cacher to come to arms against me. On the second follow-up post, I e-mailed the out-of-stater, saying that I did not appreciate that online attack, that their comments were akin to a forum post and inappropriate for a cache post, as well as courtesy copying this e-mail to geocaching.com and creating a formal complaint against this person.

 

I realize that some people are very territorial. I also realize that a lot of people feel like questions from the outside (in my case, out of state) are akin to telling someone what to do. We all knows how this goes over with cache owners. And I also realize that more than one or two posts of this nature make some cachers nervous.

 

My questions are:

 

- Are these reply logs common?

 

- Are they tolerated by the general populous?

 

- Are they tolerated by geocaching.com?

 

- What is the appropriate response when attacked in the manner?

 

I don't tend to e-mail cachers who I have not met personally. A great number of e-mails I have sent have been taken as an invasion of privacy and not replied to in a kind fashion. I also rarely get e-mail from cachers who I have not met personally. I think it is easier for most to attack from the anonymity of a gc.com game name than to contact me directly.

 

I tend to be very direct and sometimes dry with my questions, failing to soften things up or add obligatory Smileys to keep the hairs on the backs of a cache owner's neck from rising.

 

Common sense tells me to just ignore the pesky retorts and not feed the pests any sort of response. I don't owe anyone except possibly the cache owner any sort of explanation, but I tend to want to explain and get the next word in (which usually does no good since I will rarely convince someone of the merits of my position.)

______________________________________________________

 

And yes, I halfway expect some of these persons to come out of the woodwork on this thread, reasoning that "If I shake the trees, some nuts are bound to fall."

Edited June 7, 2008 by LifeOnEdge!

[+bamagirl]

Personally, if someone is going to contact me about a cache, I would prefer it be through gc.com unless it is one of my close geofriends. And I don't think it is inappropriate if you email someone kindly and just say, "I am going to be visiting your area soon and was wondering the status of this cache. It looks like one I would really enjoy." That makes the cache owner feel good about his cache and not personally attacked. I think it is all in how you word it.

[+Sarge104]

- Are these reply logs common?

 

So far I've not had any nasty replies to my quieries about cache status and I've not seen any logs that stated anything to that effect.

 

- Are they tolerated by the general populous?

 

If I ever ran into that type of problem I would just take it as an indication that I should seek another cache. I do this activity to have fun, not bicker with someone I don't know.

 

- Are they tolerated by geocaching.com?

 

I don't see how the website has any say on how a cache owner runs their cache logs.

 

- What is the appropriate response when attacked in the manner.

 

Seek another cache. It isn't worth being bothered by.

[+PeterNoG]

Personally, if someone is going to contact me about a cache, I would prefer it be through gc.com unless it is one of my close geofriends. And I don't think it is inappropriate if you email someone kindly and just say, "I am going to be visiting your area soon and was wondering the status of this cache. It looks like one I would really enjoy." That makes the cache owner feel good about his cache and not personally attacked. I think it is all in how you word it.

 

I agree that a carefully worded email to the owner might be the better approach. An online log for a disabled cache that just questions when/if it will be active, seems more like "cache police" and can easily be taken the wrong way.

 

"What do you know about this cache?" "When do you expect it to be placed back out to be found?"

If you change the tone of your queries, I expect that you will get better responses.

[Keystone]

Not a "Getting Started" issue. Moving to Geocaching Topics. Don't worry, there will be a link so that people who follow you will find your thread in its new spot.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

I would think that generating an email to the cache owner, personally, with a well thought out, and perhaps, 'generic' and 'kind' note that can't, in any way, be misconstrued as being anything other than a query as to cache status, and of course mentioning that you are planning a trip to the area, would be a much better approach than posting a note to the cache page.

 

If you don't hear from the cache owner, then find someone else who's found the cache recently and drop them a well thought out, and perhaps 'generic' and 'kind' note... blah blah blah.

 

There's no reason to take questions of the sort your asking to a cache listing. You (and your responders) are clogging up what may be potentially helpful logs for future searches with your inanities that pertain exactly not-at-all to finding the cache itself. If I was out in the field looking for a cache and found the last five logs full of people haranguing each other when I actually wanted some useful information I'd be pretty darn unhappy.

 

Also, 'geo-stalking'? Hardly.

 

 

 

michelle

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I have been caching for nearly three years now and have about three years of finds under my belt. My very first geocache find (and the next 26) were in a state where I was temporarily working. I have since traveled, come back home, and revisited the state of temporary employment where I started this interesting hobby. During my last return visit, after attending two good friend's wedding, I stayed and cached for about 13 more weeks, enjoying the cooler weather, friends, and personal freedom.

 

As it happened last May and the summer before, this May/June I have been planning another geocaching trip and doing some research on caches. I keep up with the cache activities in this other state and correspond to several cachers who live there. While researching, I commonly either contact cache owners or post questions for what appears to be trouble caches in a written cache log. I also try to troubleshoot situations that I see as they arise.

 

Each spring, as I am doing my research, I have ruffled a few feathers with my queries. "What do you know about this cache?" "When do you expect it to be placed back out to be found?" (In this area, it is common for cache owners to disable their caches over the winter, pull them, place them back out in the spring, and enable their caches.) And other, similar questions, designed to gather information about potential caches and to make contact with some of the locals. Some percentage of cachers are offended by my questions. Some other percentage of cachers reach a tipping point and lash out with mean and hateful comments like "When you move here you can be worried about these things. Until then don't worry about it." One of my comments was followed up by another out-of-state cacher with a rude and hateful comment, trying to get this new cacher to come to arms against me. On the second follow-up post, I e-mailed the out-of-stater, saying that I did not appreciate that online attack, that their comments were akin to a forum post and inappropriate for a cache post, as well as courtesy copying this e-mail to geocaching.com and creating a formal complaint against this person.

 

I realize that some people are very territorial. I also realize that a lot of people feel like questions from the outside (in my case, out of state) are akin to telling someone what to do. We all knows how this goes over with cache owners. And I also realize that more than one or two posts of this nature make some cachers nervous.

 

My questions are:

 

- Are these reply logs common?

 

- Are they tolerated by the general populous?

 

- Are they tolerated by geocaching.com?

 

- What is the appropriate response when attacked in the manner?

 

I don't tend to e-mail cachers who I have not met personally. A great number of e-mails I have sent have been taken as an invasion of privacy and not replied to in a kind fashion. I also rarely get e-mail from cachers who I have not met personally. I think it is easier for most to attack from the anonymity of a gc.com game name than to contact me directly.

 

I tend to be very direct and sometimes dry with my questions, failing to soften things up or add obligatory Smileys to keep the hairs on the backs of a cache owner's neck from rising.

 

Common sense tells me to just ignore the pesky retorts and not feed the pests any sort of response. I don't owe anyone except possibly the cache owner any sort of explanation, but I tend to want to explain and get the next word in (which usually does no good since I will rarely convince someone of the merits of my position.)

______________________________________________________

 

And yes, I halfway expect some of these persons to come out of the woodwork on this thread, reasoning that "If I shake the trees, some nuts are bound to fall."

Neither Sue nor I have never hit such a problem in our several years of geocaching across many states in the USA and in four other countries as well.

 

My gut sense is that 99% of the response you are seeing is likely due to the tone of your messages and perhaps the way in which you post them, since you have apparently stated that you post many of these queries as notes on cache listing pages rather than via PMs or emails (if the cache owner discloses their email address on their profile page.) Remember the old adage: we reap what we sow?

 

Lastly, much as the very much adorable CurmudgeonlyGal has noted, your use of the term "geo-stalkers" is way overboard and the appellation simply does not match the behaviors that you have described. Is someone here perhaps having a bit of a drama queen day? Does someone like histironics?

[AZcachemeister]

I would think that generating an email to the cache owner, personally, with a well thought out, and perhaps, 'generic' and 'kind' note that can't, in any way, be misconstrued as being anything other than a query as to cache status, and of course mentioning that you are planning a trip to the area, would be a much better approach than posting a note to the cache page.

 

If you don't hear from the cache owner, then find someone else who's found the cache recently and drop them a well thought out, and perhaps 'generic' and 'kind' note... blah blah blah.

 

There's no reason to take questions of the sort your asking to a cache listing. You (and your responders) are clogging up what may be potentially helpful logs for future searches with your inanities that pertain exactly not-at-all to finding the cache itself. If I was out in the field looking for a cache and found the last five logs full of people haranguing each other when I actually wanted some useful information I'd be pretty darn unhappy.

 

Also, 'geo-stalking'? Hardly.

michelle

 

I entirely agree with the above.

Perhaps the owner is is anxious to re-hide their cache, but something is preventing them from doing so. A public reminder that they have not attended to their cache the way they would like is going to be very irritating. A carefully worded private message would certainly be less 'threatening' to the hider's integrity.

A lack of a response, is a response in itself...meaning either they don't check their EMail, or they don't want to answer. In which case I would check with the last finder. If they can't help, then move on to the next one (the next cache).

 

Also as per above, I find extraneous notes regarding TB drops (etc) to be annoying and pointless.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Every time I have contacted a cache owner I have had a good experience. If when I ask something along the lines "I see you have a lot of finds and hides in your area, what caches can you recommend? I am in the area for x days, and am looking for some nice hides."

 

I have actually become friends with some of these folks, and gone on to cache with them!

[+Sioneva]

<snip>

 

My questions are:

 

- Are these reply logs common?

 

- Are they tolerated by the general populous?

 

- Are they tolerated by geocaching.com?

 

- What is the appropriate response when attacked in the manner?

 

I don't tend to e-mail cachers who I have not met personally. A great number of e-mails I have sent have been taken as an invasion of privacy and not replied to in a kind fashion. I also rarely get e-mail from cachers who I have not met personally. I think it is easier for most to attack from the anonymity of a gc.com game name than to contact me directly.

 

I tend to be very direct and sometimes dry with my questions, failing to soften things up or add obligatory Smileys to keep the hairs on the backs of a cache owner's neck from rising.

 

Common sense tells me to just ignore the pesky retorts and not feed the pests any sort of response. I don't owe anyone except possibly the cache owner any sort of explanation, but I tend to want to explain and get the next word in (which usually does no good since I will rarely convince someone of the merits of my position.)

______________________________________________________

 

And yes, I halfway expect some of these persons to come out of the woodwork on this thread, reasoning that "If I shake the trees, some nuts are bound to fall."

Neither Sue nor I have never hit such a problem in our several years of geocaching across many states in the USA and in four other countries as well.

 

My gut sense is that 99% of the response you are seeing is likely due to the tone of your messages and perhaps the way in which you post them, since you have apparently stated that you post many of these queries as notes on cache listing pages rather than via PMs or emails (if the cache owner discloses their email address on their profile page.) Remember the old adage: we reap what we sow?

 

Lastly, much as the very much adorable CurmudgeonlyGal has noted, your use of the term "geo-stalkers" is way overboard and the appellation simply does not match the behaviors that you have described. Is someone here perhaps having a bit of a drama queen day? Does someone like histironics?

 

Vinny is right. As someone who has been geo-stalking him for years, I have only ever once posted a note to any of his caches... and that was under special circumstances. Emailing the cache owner privately works best for all, I've found.

 

Plus, it doesn't draw the moderator's attention, or gum up GSAK files. I look forward to many more happy years geo-stalking Vinny.

[+gof1]

I read your profile. If the logs you are talking about read like that page it is no wonder you get replies that are less than pleasant.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

Vinny is right. As someone who has been geo-stalking him for years, I have only ever once posted a note to any of his caches... and that was under special circumstances. Emailing the cache owner privately works best for all, I've found.

 

Plus, it doesn't draw the moderator's attention, or gum up GSAK files. I look forward to many more happy years geo-stalking Vinny.

 

Vinny is just so cute... and stalkable!

 

 

 

michelle

[Mushtang]

I read your profile. If the logs you are talking about read like that page it is no wonder you get replies that are less than pleasant.

WOW, you're not kidding. This guy is amazing. I read his entire profile and it's hard to believe he's serious, but I suspect he is.

 

At the end of the rant he says,

New cachers are coming people. If your caches aren't findable, they will find those that are. If your caches are lame, they will seek out caches that aren't. If all you spew is micros, the better new cachers will avoid your series of 100 lame guardrail caches and look for more creative hides.

I decided to take a look at his cache hides. Imagine my surprise to find 43 of his 59 caches are micros! (That was sarcasm, I wasn't surprised in the least.)

[+Rick618]

It's called tact and social niceties. From your profile and your own admission it sounds like you need to take a different approach, find someone to act as a filter, or stop interacting on the cache pages. What you perceive as "help" is going to be unwelcome, more than likely taken as meddling, and not going to be appreciated. You have a new cacher that is reluctant to place caches due to your "help" that should be a huge red flag if the previous issues weren't enough.

 

There's a common denominator in all these interactions.

 

Better luck.

[+LifeOnEdge!]

I would think that generating an email to the cache owner, personally, with a well thought out, and perhaps, 'generic' and 'kind' note that can't, in any way, be misconstrued as being anything other than a query as to cache status, and of course mentioning that you are planning a trip to the area, would be a much better approach than posting a note to the cache page.

 

If you don't hear from the cache owner, then find someone else who's found the cache recently and drop them a well thought out, and perhaps 'generic' and 'kind' note... blah blah blah.

 

There's no reason to take questions of the sort your asking to a cache listing. You (and your responders) are clogging up what may be potentially helpful logs for future searches with your inanities that pertain exactly not-at-all to finding the cache itself. If I was out in the field looking for a cache and found the last five logs full of people haranguing each other when I actually wanted some useful information I'd be pretty darn unhappy.

 

Also, 'geo-stalking'? Hardly.

 

michelle

 

Michelle,

 

You missed the point entirely. Actually, people have drifted off. I guess I didn't make my point very clear.

 

Here it is in simple form:

 

I have posted written notes on cache pages.

 

Other people, totally unassociated with the cache, have responded as a follow-up to my comment, making disparaging remarks.

 

These same people have followed other posts from me on different caches with similar "can you believe this guy? Why doesn't he stay in Texas" comments.

 

Same guy, different caches, different times. He's following me with negativity. If you have a better term for this, let me know and I'll read about it in your thread on the topic, eh?

 

As far as the posts that I leave, they are exactly about the cache or the cache page. I WILL NOT e-mail a cache owner who I do not know with information that everyone wants to know. Accuracy of coordinates, disposition of the cache, etc.

 

This is off topic, but one of my pet peeves is a cacher who says "E-mailed the owner with information about the cache." What information? Isn't that something we need to know? If you couldn't find it and there's an issue, I want to know what it is.

[+LifeOnEdge!]

I read your profile. If the logs you are talking about read like that page it is no wonder you get replies that are less than pleasant.

 

You can read my family history, my resume, or your local phone book. Has nothing to do with what I asked. Does it?

 

Can we please stay on topic and attempt the question? Otherwise, you're wasting time, efforts, and cluttering the thread ... right?

Edited June 8, 2008 by LifeOnEdge!

[+LifeOnEdge!]

Okay. No one is on topic, or has seemingly not understood and then not asked for clarification. I'm not giving up. I also don't have to justify my profile or my caches. THIS is the very thing I have come up against!

 

I posed a question. Can someone answer it?

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Vinny is right. As someone who has been geo-stalking him for years, I have only ever once posted a note to any of his caches... and that was under special circumstances. Emailing the cache owner privately works best for all, I've found.

 

Plus, it doesn't draw the moderator's attention, or gum up GSAK files. I look forward to many more happy years geo-stalking Vinny.

 

Vinny is just so cute... and stalkable!

 

 

michelle

Sweetie, you can stalk me anytime; I have had a crush on you since I first saw your posts (and photos) on the forums years ago (and yes, Sue knows all about my cute little crushes!)

 

As for that dern Sionevil (aka Sioneva), she is really really truly scary! I think it is her bizarre 2 AM phone calls (from a DoD Autovon network telephone at an Air Force base in Nebraska) that really cinch her status as the leading majorly psychotic uber-stalker in the North America! In fact, but for the fact that our peacock Pierre sleeps on the peaked rooftop (will post fotos of Pierre in return for bribes) just above our bedroom every night as our watch-peackock, I would be EXTREMELY worried about Sionevil!

 

And, as for the OP, well, yes, his profile reveals a lot about him and his 'tude, but also his very username, "LifeOn Edge!" can likely tell us a lot about his 'tude as well! sigh!

Edited June 8, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+LifeOnEdge!]

As one of the posters stated: a non-answer is an anwer of sorts.

 

Since everyone has gone into attack mode and won't answer the question, I think I see what's going on here. I really wanted some ideas beside the obvious (which you all have illustrated) but I have failed so far.

 

Does anyone else care to tackle the question?

[+gof1]

Notice that most of the replies are worded in a polite, friendly manor? You had no problem with those. I made my response blunt and look how you reacted.

 

The point is that the people you are complaining about are responding to you as they have because of your tone. Change the tone and people will respond in a friendly manor.

[+Sioneva]

As one of the posters stated: a non-answer is an anwer of sorts.

 

Since everyone has gone into attack mode and won't answer the question, I think I see what's going on here. I really wanted some ideas beside the obvious (which you all have illustrated) but I have failed so far.

 

Does anyone else care to tackle the question?

 

Sure. I'll give you the answer I gave you before. Privately emailing the cache owner prevents this sort of situation from springing up. Maybe you should try that.

 

As for the existing situation - ask a reviewer to remove the other person's notes, and don't be surprised if yours are removed as well. Your personal inquiries about the cache don't belong on the cache page... if you put a note like that on one of my caches, I'd probably email you the answer, and might or might not delete the note, depending on the phrasing.

 

Only I'll add in a bit of advice about losing the attitude... it's not going to help you in the long run.

 

Now I have to go back on the base... time to call Vinny again!

 

Edited to add: It's one thing to post a note like that if you've looked for a cache and haven't found it; it's an entirely different matter to post that sort of note before you've even looked for the cache!

Edited June 8, 2008 by Sioneva

[+WRASTRO]

I have been caching for nearly three years now and have about three years of finds under my belt. My very first geocache find (and the next 26) were in a state where I was temporarily working. I have since traveled, come back home, and revisited the state of temporary employment where I started this interesting hobby. During my last return visit, after attending two good friend's wedding, I stayed and cached for about 13 more weeks, enjoying the cooler weather, friends, and personal freedom.

 

As it happened last May and the summer before, this May/June I have been planning another geocaching trip and doing some research on caches. I keep up with the cache activities in this other state and correspond to several cachers who live there. While researching, I commonly either contact cache owners or post questions for what appears to be trouble caches in a written cache log. I also try to troubleshoot situations that I see as they arise.

 

Each spring, as I am doing my research, I have ruffled a few feathers with my queries. "What do you know about this cache?" "When do you expect it to be placed back out to be found?" (In this area, it is common for cache owners to disable their caches over the winter, pull them, place them back out in the spring, and enable their caches.) And other, similar questions, designed to gather information about potential caches and to make contact with some of the locals. Some percentage of cachers are offended by my questions. Some other percentage of cachers reach a tipping point and lash out with mean and hateful comments like "When you move here you can be worried about these things. Until then don't worry about it." One of my comments was followed up by another out-of-state cacher with a rude and hateful comment, trying to get this new cacher to come to arms against me. On the second follow-up post, I e-mailed the out-of-stater, saying that I did not appreciate that online attack, that their comments were akin to a forum post and inappropriate for a cache post, as well as courtesy copying this e-mail to geocaching.com and creating a formal complaint against this person.

 

I realize that some people are very territorial. I also realize that a lot of people feel like questions from the outside (in my case, out of state) are akin to telling someone what to do. We all knows how this goes over with cache owners. And I also realize that more than one or two posts of this nature make some cachers nervous.

 

My questions are:

 

- Are these reply logs common?

 

- Are they tolerated by the general populous?

 

- Are they tolerated by geocaching.com?

 

- What is the appropriate response when attacked in the manner?

 

I don't tend to e-mail cachers who I have not met personally. A great number of e-mails I have sent have been taken as an invasion of privacy and not replied to in a kind fashion. I also rarely get e-mail from cachers who I have not met personally. I think it is easier for most to attack from the anonymity of a gc.com game name than to contact me directly.

 

I tend to be very direct and sometimes dry with my questions, failing to soften things up or add obligatory Smileys to keep the hairs on the backs of a cache owner's neck from rising.

 

Common sense tells me to just ignore the pesky retorts and not feed the pests any sort of response. I don't owe anyone except possibly the cache owner any sort of explanation, but I tend to want to explain and get the next word in (which usually does no good since I will rarely convince someone of the merits of my position.)

______________________________________________________

 

And yes, I halfway expect some of these persons to come out of the woodwork on this thread, reasoning that "If I shake the trees, some nuts are bound to fall."

One of the first things I will do when I receive some communication from a cacher I don't know is to check the profile for that cacher. Your profile comes off as very condescending and would certainly not put me in a very positive frame of mind when contemplating a response to a post you had placed on one of my caches.

 

That said, I can give one general answer that applies to all of your questions. It seems likely that your style and method of communication is what is being perceived as attacking and confrontational and thus elicites responses in kind. In addition, if I receive communication from someone who purports to be expert and is doling out advice and criticism, I would expect to see nothing but exemplary information on that person's profile page. Yours is not well written and has numerous spelling errors.

 

In short, you are claiming on cache pages that the cachers are incompetent and should be following your shining example of perfection. Likely not a very good way to be making friends and followers.

[+briansnat]

I read your profile. If the logs you are talking about read like that page it is no wonder you get replies that are less than pleasant.

 

You can read my family history, my resume, or your local phone book. Has nothing to do with what I asked. Does it?

 

Can we please stay on topic and attempt the question? Otherwise, you're wasting time, efforts, and cluttering the thread ... right?

 

OK

 

Are these reply logs common?

 

I've never seen one.

 

Are they tolerated by the general populous?

 

Personal attacks aren't appropriate

 

Are they tolerated by geocaching.com?

 

Generally not

 

- What is the appropriate response when attacked in the manner?

 

If it happened once or twice I'd chalk it up to the person being a jerk and move on. If it happened

as frequently as it appears to happen to you, I'd consider that perhaps there is a problem with

my tone and/or methods and reconsider the way I interact with other geocachers.

[Neos2]

Every year we plan a long trip and I go through looking for caches we will probably enjoy. I always end up emailing some of the locals to ask a few questions.

 

The responses have almost always been completely positive. Generally I get invitations for us to join them for coffee or dinner or a day of caching. Sometimes those work into our schedule and we have met some very nice people that way. We had a great time caching with a relative newbie named Drgnsrealm in Myrtle Beach a couple of years ago, for instance.

 

Other times I get nice lists of local favorites, or links to lists that have already been made at least. I've even been offered the final cords for puzzles that would take too long to do while traveling through, but have great destinations (by the cache owner).

 

Only once did I get a strange answer--Someone wrote back to say "Sure, I'll do your research for you"--but even then, he later realized that wasn't what I was asking and he wrote back again with a much warmer answer, full of lots of helpful ideas.

 

So, no, the typical answer to my questions about caches doesn't sound like yours. I suspect it might have to do with the wording of your posts and with the posts themselves. There is a difference between being critical of something and giving a good critique. There is a difference between being honest about something, and being blunt to the point of rudeness.

 

I typically contact the cache owner via the gc link on their profile page. It offers them a private way to be contacted and that helps them feel more secure. I rarely "tell" them what they should do--I just report what I found at their cache (if I've already been there) or ask them if they think there is a chance the cache will be available the dates I will be there. I try to maintain a friendly, warm manner and my only presumption is that we all have the ultimate goal of geocaching being a pleasant experience.

 

For instance: A typical problem report might say something like "I visited you cache X on X-X-X, and found the log was in pretty bad shape--wet and beginning to stick together. We dried it as best we could. I added a new logbook in a small plastic bag that should last until you can get out to the cache. I hope you don't mind my doing that. I knew you would want to know right away. I really liked X about the cache. Thanks for having it out there". On the cache log, I may have said something about what I liked about the cache, and that I added a new temporary dry log. Factual and friendly.

 

Can I be very frank with you? When I read your cache logs and your profile page it doesn't come off as factual and friendly, or even as "well trained science mind" --it comes off pompous and dictatorial. I certainly hope that isn't the tone you are aiming for--and I'm guessing it's not, or you wouldn't have posted here. If you frequently get angry repsonses, it may be related to your approach. I'm honestly not trying to be unkind to you-- If I were you, I would take the responses you have received here in the forums into consideration. Hopefully you can improve your experiences by viewing these forum replies as honest criticism and adjusting your approach to be a more effective communicator.

[+Team GeoBlast]

As far as the posts that I leave, they are exactly about the cache or the cache page. I WILL NOT e-mail a cache owner who I do not know with information that everyone wants to know. Accuracy of coordinates, disposition of the cache, etc.

 

Don't you see the leap you are making right here? You seem to feel like you are "speaking for the people" and that a public answer to your very terse question is some sort of a right of passage or something. People have all tried to tell you this in different ways as I read through this thread but I suppose it wouldn't hurt for you to hear it again. Your inquiries seem like they are calling the cache owner out, they are not polite or respectful. The fact that you refuse to email someone privately with a warm personalized message might deserve some self evaluation. You can call me wrong, dumb, or whatever.. but the simple fact is that you are getting unwanted interactions and there IS a reason for it.

 

I'll use another poster in this thread, Big Bad Wolf as an example here. He visits our island once or twice a year and is pretty much considered part of our caching community. How did he obtain that status? Not by posting a robotic "All your cache belong to me" flavored statement on a cache page. No, he contacts cachers personally, he posts on our forum, and he's cool. He has a open invitation to cache with pretty much any cacher I know as a result. Yet, you are having trouble having a simple question answered and people are following you around and posting nasty comments. You can either watch and learn or continue. Your choice.

 

This is off topic, but one of my pet peeves is a cacher who says "E-mailed the owner with information about the cache." What information? Isn't that something we need to know? If you couldn't find it and there's an issue, I want to know what it is.

 

<sigh>

Edited June 8, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+the hermit crabs]

My questions are:

 

- Are these reply logs common?

They're not especially common, but they are not unheard of either. But since you ask questions in these logs of yours, you should expect some replies.

 

- Are they tolerated by the general populous?

I wouldn't know.

 

- Are they tolerated by geocaching.com?

Not if it drags on and on. A couple of Q&A logs, sure. A long drawn-out argument, or even just a single abusive log, is not.

 

- What is the appropriate response when attacked in the manner?

If it happened once to me, I'd think that the one person was just some sort of wacko. But if it happened frequently to me, I'd have a pretty strong clue that the problem is with me.

 

......................

 

Okay, you wanted people to answer your questions, so I did.

 

Now that that's out of the way, a bit of editorializing: When I read your initial post, I was thinking that you just have poor social skills and don't communicate effectively. I rank up pretty high on the social ineptitude scale myself, and am often concerned that I am unintentionally offending people. So I didn't really think too much of it.

 

But after reading all of the subsequent posts, I read a couple of your logs. I only looked at a few of your recent finds, so I didn't see any of the "stalking" type you were initially talking about. But I did see the logs on The Hocky Stop, which elicited a loud "Yikes!" and a pair of raised eyebrows from me.

 

March 23 by LifeOnEdge! (3130 found)

Hilda and I came by here this morning to find your cache. We loved the little park and came directly to where I believe your cache is hidden. Unfortunately, we weren't able to "liberate" the cache from its hiding spot.

 

I am pretty knowledgeable about caches like this and think I know exactly where its hiding. It appears that the last finder or a muggle jammed that which conceals the cache and removal is next to impossible. If this sounds like your cache, please investigate. You might wish to take a hammer and a screwdriver or some other device to loosen this.

 

I'll be watching for activity and return once I'm certain the cache is findable. - Pat

 

May 2 by LifeOnEdge! (3130 found)

I guess, if the owner isn't going to check on or comment on this one, I'll have to come back out here with my tools.

 

I hate to do that to an urban geocache, especially one that is in full view of many in the community.

 

There really only seemed to be one logical location for this one, completely out of sight, in what has become a pretty standard "gee-whiz" sort of hide. Am I wrong? - Pat

 

May 8 by jysailor (377 found)

Checked on cache again and found it safe and able to obtain without tools as it was in April when I last checked. Not sure what the problem was, but it is there today.

 

You can't find the cache, but you are sure that you've seen that kind before... so, rather than thinking that maybe it's a different twist on a familiar theme, you decide that you'll have to go out there with implements of destruction to "fix" it?

 

!!!

 

We have a cache that at first glance appears to be a standard hide: An ammo can in the woods. It's not quite normal, though, since the cover has been welded shut and a new "secret" opening has been made in the bottom of the can. Most people have spent the time it takes to figure out how to get it open (there are hints on the cache page to prevent too much frustration).

 

But now I picture you coming to find it, and, being "pretty knowledgeable about caches like this", since, being an ammo can, it's just a "pretty standard" hide, will take it upon yourself to use tools to damage the container because it doesn't work the way that you expect it to work.

 

Wow. I'm at a loss for words.

[+LifeOnEdge!]

Team GeoBlast,

 

You gave an excellent answer to a question that I never asked!

 

I tried to tell you the conditions of the situation and asked specific questions that I need answeres to. Instead of answering them, you were critical and suggestive with the conditions. These conditions are "as it is." Some are variable, but please don't assume that I can or will be changing them. I didn't ask "Hey guys. How can I get a better response from my questions?"

 

I'm asking this: I have ONE cacher who is hounding several of my posts. He doesn't live either in the state where I cache OR in the state where I live. He DOES watch the same caches that I watch, and if I happen to leave a comment on a cache, he will sometimes lash out with his negative comments reply to my post.

 

- DO I contact the local reviewers?

 

- DO I contact geocaching.com?

 

- DO I <sign> and look disappointed?

 

YES, I can change my behavior, but I am being harranged to do just that. I'm not harassing cache owners. I'm doing what I'm doing and am not here to be judged by that.

 

Imagine that on Monday, after reading your (yes, your) find posts on geocaching.com, researching the nearby caches and finding some DNF posts, and maybe one or two posts that you left for whatever other reason, you start getting notices that LifeOnEdge! posted written messages on the same caches. Curious, you start reading these posts thinking it odd that you were just reading his forum thread this last weekend, and I start posting nasty comments directed at you.

 

Image now that this behavior continues, seemingly without end.

 

What are you doing to do? You e-mail me and I send a simple reply back: : ) You continue to see taunting posts. What then? Are you contacting your reviewer? Are you grabbing your best (pick your favorite steel tool here)? Are you contacting geocaching.com? Are you laughing and shaking your head and calling me a/an (pick your favorite derrogatory term here)? Are you doing nothing, unconcerned, and making a cup of coffee?

[+LifeOnEdge!]

My questions are:

 

- Are these reply logs common?

They're not especially common, but they are not unheard of either. But since you ask questions in these logs of yours, you should expect some replies.

 

- Are they tolerated by the general populous?

I wouldn't know.

 

- Are they tolerated by geocaching.com?

Not if it drags on and on. A couple of Q&A logs, sure. A long drawn-out argument, or even just a single abusive log, is not.

 

- What is the appropriate response when attacked in the manner?

If it happened once to me, I'd think that the one person was just some sort of wacko. But if it happened frequently to me, I'd have a pretty strong clue that the problem is with me.

 

......................

 

Okay, you wanted people to answer your questions, so I did.

 

Now that that's out of the way, a bit of editorializing: When I read your initial post, I was thinking that you just have poor social skills and don't communicate effectively. I rank up pretty high on the social ineptitude scale myself, and am often concerned that I am unintentionally offending people. So I didn't really think too much of it.

 

But after reading all of the subsequent posts, I read a couple of your logs. I only looked at a few of your recent finds, so I didn't see any of the "stalking" type you were initially talking about. But I did see the logs on The Hocky Stop, which elicited a loud "Yikes!" and a pair of raised eyebrows from me.

 

March 23 by LifeOnEdge! (3130 found)

Hilda and I came by here this morning to find your cache. We loved the little park and came directly to where I believe your cache is hidden. Unfortunately, we weren't able to "liberate" the cache from its hiding spot.

 

I am pretty knowledgeable about caches like this and think I know exactly where its hiding. It appears that the last finder or a muggle jammed that which conceals the cache and removal is next to impossible. If this sounds like your cache, please investigate. You might wish to take a hammer and a screwdriver or some other device to loosen this.

 

I'll be watching for activity and return once I'm certain the cache is findable. - Pat

 

May 2 by LifeOnEdge! (3130 found)

I guess, if the owner isn't going to check on or comment on this one, I'll have to come back out here with my tools.

 

I hate to do that to an urban geocache, especially one that is in full view of many in the community.

 

There really only seemed to be one logical location for this one, completely out of sight, in what has become a pretty standard "gee-whiz" sort of hide. Am I wrong? - Pat

 

May 8 by jysailor (377 found)

Checked on cache again and found it safe and able to obtain without tools as it was in April when I last checked. Not sure what the problem was, but it is there today.

 

You can't find the cache, but you are sure that you've seen that kind before... so, rather than thinking that maybe it's a different twist on a familiar theme, you decide that you'll have to go out there with implements of destruction to "fix" it?

 

!!!

 

We have a cache that at first glance appears to be a standard hide: An ammo can in the woods. It's not quite normal, though, since the cover has been welded shut and a new "secret" opening has been made in the bottom of the can. Most people have spent the time it takes to figure out how to get it open (there are hints on the cache page to prevent too much frustration).

 

But now I picture you coming to find it, and, being "pretty knowledgeable about caches like this", since, being an ammo can, it's just a "pretty standard" hide, will take it upon yourself to use tools to damage the container because it doesn't work the way that you expect it to work.

 

Wow. I'm at a loss for words.

 

I know exactly the words you are at a loss for. You FAILED to include that in your list:

 

May 8 by LifeOnEdge! (3130 found)

(#3121) Hilda and I came out to check on this one following the maintenance note. I went to where I knew the cache had to be and was able to liberate it this time. It was still a little tight, but at least I got to it.

Thanks so much for the cache!

LifeOnEdge! and Hilda Dog!

[+KoosKoos]

If a particular person is following several of your logs with additional negative comments, send a note to contact@geocaching.com and let them know the situation.

 

If multiple people are responding to your notes on cache pages in similar tones to what you say are the negative comments by this one person, then I agree with the previous posters about evaluating your comments to see if you're bringing out these comments.

[+the hermit crabs]

I know exactly the words you are at a loss for. You FAILED to include that in your list:

 

May 8 by LifeOnEdge! (3130 found)

(#3121) Hilda and I came out to check on this one following the maintenance note. I went to where I knew the cache had to be and was able to liberate it this time. It was still a little tight, but at least I got to it.

Thanks so much for the cache!

LifeOnEdge! and Hilda Dog!

You appear to have comprehension difficulties as well.

 

The fact that you went and found it later, rather than following through with your threat to take a hammer and screwdriver to it since it wasn't behaving as you expected, doesn't take away the fact that you did write in a log that that was your intention.

 

Your original issue was that you write notes about the condition of caches, and you get abusive responses. I concentrated on the astonishing note that you logged, not on the irrelevant subsequent find. If your other notes are at all similar to that one, you shouldn't be surprised about any negative reaction you might get.

[+Too Tall John]

My questions are:

 

- Are these reply logs common?

I don't find the inquiry logs common, so the response to the inquiry is also uncommon to me.

- Are they tolerated by the general populous?

No individual here can really answer that without taking a poll. To answer the question of myself: I find any log that does not contain information about the status of a cache to be one more piece of useless information I need to deal with. A found log tells me someone found the cache, a DNF log tells me someone didn't. Your log and the response on the cache page are useless, IMO.

- Are they tolerated by geocaching.com?

Geocaching.com makes a habit of staying out of such things. I suppose if the logs were threatening, that might change, but in general, the guidelines make it very clear that cache log maintenance is the responsibility of the cache owner.

- What is the appropriate response when attacked in the manner?

If I were attacked in a cache log, I would either ignore it, or if it were something I thought deserved attention, would invite the attacker to take it somewhere else, since the cache page wasn't the place for it.

I don't tend to e-mail cachers who I have not met personally.

Do you recognize that your note generates an email to the cache owner? Despite your statement, you are, effectively, emailing the cache owner AND leaving a public record of it for all to read.

...I tend to be very direct and sometimes dry with my questions, failing to soften things up or add obligatory Smileys to keep the hairs on the backs of a cache owner's neck from rising.

Nice. Admitting there is a problem is the first step to recovery! Work on your tone, you'll get better responses.

Common sense tells me to just ignore the pesky retorts and not feed the pests any sort of response.

Common sense isn't common anymore. If you have it, use it. Be done with the "stalker."

I don't owe anyone except possibly the cache owner any sort of explanation, but I tend to want to explain and get the next word in (which usually does no good since I will rarely convince someone of the merits of my position.)

Next time you want to get the last word in, remember this: Never argue with a fool. Someone watching might not know the difference.

[+Too Tall John]

If you were too over the top (as you were in the logs dug up by the hermit crabs, IMO), perhaps the person responding wasn't as out of hand as you suggest.

 

Not that either your log or the response belongs on the cache page as I see it...

[+lrosell]

I'd go for the coffee, sit down an re-evaluate my life hopefully coming to the conclution that I need to try and take myself a tad less serious...

[+Team GeoBlast]

YES, I can change my behavior, but I am being harranged to do just that. I'm not harassing cache owners. I'm doing what I'm doing and am not here to be judged by that.

 

I am not judging you. I am telling of why I think it is happening, if you are not interested in that, it is okay. What would I do? I wouldn't contact GC.com, my local reviewer, or anything like that. I would say to myself.."Self, it is mighty odd that I cannot find ONE person that has experienced similar problems. I'm a self proclaimed very intelligent person, I can figure this out." I would also minimize it to what it is, text on a page which can be easily ignored.

 

Imagine that on Monday, after reading your (yes, your) find posts on geocaching.com, researching the nearby caches and finding some DNF posts, and maybe one or two posts that you left for whatever other reason, you start getting notices that LifeOnEdge! posted written messages on the same caches. Curious, you start reading these posts thinking it odd that you were just reading his forum thread this last weekend, and I start posting nasty comments directed at you

.

 

I'm pretty much like everyone else here, it has NEVER happened in three years of caching so the scenario you present is not likely. If it did, I'd contact the person and ask them to stop very nicely. Then I would stop reading his or her logs.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[4wheelin_fool]

Intense attention to detail and high expectations of others are not necessarily positive traits..

 

I would stop posting notes to cache pages, and e-mail the owners directly. Your idiot geo-stalker will lose interest, and your communication will be clearer. If that is a pet peeve, then you need to work on that.

 

 

Next time you want to get the last word in, remember this: Never argue with a fool. Someone watching might not know the difference.

 

Yes that's true.

[+va griz]

From your profile page:

 

Okay, so I found your cache, signed the log, but while I was walking my dog and forgetting to replace your cache, wondered off and discovered your "can" in my pocket 100 miles later. I'll return it when I come back that way -- or I WOULD HAVE, had I not gotten that little FY Love Note. Never fear -- I'll recycle that "can" and put it to use. I might even give it to a cacher who will hide it for YOU to find! What goes around comes around.

 

You say you provide "helpful information". If you can't see how that paragraph would appear threatening to a new cache hider, you need better help than I can give you. Good luck on your quest to save geocaching from itself.

[+Trucker Lee]

Sure. I'll give you the answer I gave you before. Privately emailing the cache owner prevents this sort of situation from springing up. Maybe you should try that.

 

As for the existing situation - ask a reviewer to remove the other person's notes, and don't be surprised if yours are removed as well. Your personal inquiries about the cache don't belong on the cache page... if you put a note like that on one of my caches, I'd probably email you the answer, and might or might not delete the note, depending on the phrasing.

 

LOE, I've checked on a couple caches in areas I was headed to also, and not had a bad experience yet. As suggested, use the email through profile option with a quick explanation you "will soon be in the area and their cache looked like fun, thus you ask........." I wouldn't post a note to the cache page.

 

As to deleting the notes as suggested above, I believe it would be a lot more fun to quietly delete your own notes, and leaving the uberazz's notes hanging there making them look like they have lost their minds.

[+larryc43230]

Has anyone else noticed that the OP's profile has been pretty much emptied of content?

 

--Larry

[+Team GeoBlast]

Sure. I'll give you the answer I gave you before. Privately emailing the cache owner prevents this sort of situation from springing up. Maybe you should try that.

 

As for the existing situation - ask a reviewer to remove the other person's notes, and don't be surprised if yours are removed as well. Your personal inquiries about the cache don't belong on the cache page... if you put a note like that on one of my caches, I'd probably email you the answer, and might or might not delete the note, depending on the phrasing.

 

LOE, I've checked on a couple caches in areas I was headed to also, and not had a bad experience yet. As suggested, use the email through profile option with a quick explanation you "will soon be in the area and their cache looked like fun, thus you ask........." I wouldn't post a note to the cache page.

 

As to deleting the notes as suggested above, I believe it would be a lot more fun to quietly delete your own notes, and leaving the uberazz's notes hanging there making them look like they have lost their minds.

 

That's actually the best suggestion yet.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

Has anyone else noticed that the OP's profile has been pretty much emptied of content?

 

--Larry

 

Imagine that.

 

 

michelle

[+Too Tall John]

Has anyone else noticed that the OP's profile has been pretty much emptied of content?

 

--Larry

Perhaps he didn't want anyone asking questions about statements that conflict, like this one:

I'm a people person, bay-bee!... Unfortunately, "information" is usually converted to a feeling of regret or insecurity and misunderstood as a desire be critical.

You've had enough adverse responses you feel you need to address it in your profile, but you are a people person?

 

This part made me scratch my head:

This is a game guys, and a fun one....Let's make this a fun game for EVERYONE, not just you and your furry band of buddies who are critical of others in private, but have lower standards for yourself!

Is it a fun game, or one where you apparently feel the need to imply cache owners are hypocritical and furry...?

 

Furry? Really?

 

Yeah, I had the profile in question opened in another tab...

Edited June 8, 2008 by Too Tall John

[+va griz]

Furry? Really?

 

Hey! I'm furry. Now I'm offended! Where's the smiley for stalking off in an indignent manner?

Edited June 8, 2008 by va griz

[+TeamGumbo]

Sounds like you need to work on your communication skills.

 

If you're going to tell me I'm ugly, at least make me look forward to finding a mirror.

[+PhxChem]

Has anyone else noticed that the OP's profile has been pretty much emptied of content?

 

I guess he finally decided he couldn't afford to give any more free ammo. Plus, I'm sure the ATF was bound to ask why someone would have such powerful ammunition just laying around.

 

It clearly showed that he was not adverse to doling out unsolicited advice...ON HIS PROFILE no less!!

 

Of course, He seemed quite upset when others around here, by his perception, did the same. Although, I felt all the advice given to him was useful and quite on topic. Whether or not he wants to utilize it....that's up to him and his superiority complex to decide.

 

BTW, as someone with a PhD in the sciences, his "you don't quite understand because I am a man of science" routine did nothing for me.

[+lrosell]

Has anyone else noticed that the OP's profile has been pretty much emptied of content?

 

 

BTW, as someone with a PhD in the sciences, his "you don't quite understand because I am a man of science" routine did nothing for me.

 

I have an idea; we should all list our degrees, education and professions and try to impress the heck out of ourselves. In fact, unless you have at least a bachelor in something you shouldn't be allowed to buy a GPSr! Or at least only be allowed do do 1/1 micros in city parks. Maybe...

Edited June 9, 2008 by lrosell

[Mushtang]

Has anyone else noticed that the OP's profile has been pretty much emptied of content?

 

I guess he finally decided he couldn't afford to give any more free ammo. Plus, I'm sure the ATF was bound to ask why someone would have such powerful ammunition just laying around.

 

<snip>

Well, there's still the gallery tab. Heh heh heh.

[+south central beach ops]

As one of the posters stated: a non-answer is an anwer of sorts.

 

Since everyone has gone into attack mode and won't answer the question, I think I see what's going on here. I really wanted some ideas beside the obvious (which you all have illustrated) but I have failed so far.

 

Does anyone else care to tackle the question?

 

Sure. I'll give you the answer I gave you before. Privately emailing the cache owner prevents this sort of situation from springing up. Maybe you should try that.

 

As for the existing situation - ask a reviewer to remove the other person's notes, and don't be surprised if yours are removed as well. Your personal inquiries about the cache don't belong on the cache page... if you put a note like that on one of my caches, I'd probably email you the answer, and might or might not delete the note, depending on the phrasing.

 

Only I'll add in a bit of advice about losing the attitude... it's not going to help you in the long run.

 

Now I have to go back on the base... time to call Vinny again!

 

Edited to add: It's one thing to post a note like that if you've looked for a cache and haven't found it; it's an entirely different matter to post that sort of note before you've even looked for the cache!

 

Replying to one of many possible posts:

 

The frustration of the OP, and subsequently of the respondents, makes me think of Asberger's syndrome or someone on the weak end of the autism spectrum: poor social skills, devoid of empathy, sometimes inordinate talent in science and / or math. Something about the OP's posts makes me less likely to ascribe the problem to run-of-the-mill arrogance than to a genuine befuddlement. (Note: I got here too late to read the profile.)

 

The responses have been almost entirely gentle and forgiving and constructive, but have not been taken that way. Still I don't see a troll or a raging ego; I sort of see someone frustrated at being misunderstood, and not getting why that is, though it's glaringly obvious to lots of others. Imagine your world is categorized as fact and not fact, with no emotional shading, and you state what you perceive to be a 'fact.' Suddenly people respond emotionally to your 'fact.' Their feelings are hurt, they don't like your tone, they feel disrespected, and they react accordingly.

 

Hmmmmm . . . or maybe not. If that were the case, why would the OP react emotionally to the emotional response?

 

Anyway, talk amongst yourselves!

 

ms south

 

(for once)

 

of south central beach ops

[+hydnsek]

The frustration of the OP, and subsequently of the respondents, makes me think of Asberger's syndrome or someone on the weak end of the autism spectrum: poor social skills, devoid of empathy, sometimes inordinate talent in science and / or math. Something about the OP's posts makes me less likely to ascribe the problem to run-of-the-mill arrogance than to a genuine befuddlement. (Note: I got here too late to read the profile.)

 

The responses have been almost entirely gentle and forgiving and constructive, but have not been taken that way. Still I don't see a troll or a raging ego; I sort of see someone frustrated at being misunderstood, and not getting why that is, though it's glaringly obvious to lots of others. Imagine your world is categorized as fact and not fact, with no emotional shading, and you state what you perceive to be a 'fact.' Suddenly people respond emotionally to your 'fact.' Their feelings are hurt, they don't like your tone, they feel disrespected, and they react accordingly.

Asperger's syndrome was my thought, as well. I agree with you, the interactions and reactions seem strange otherwise. (And I did read the profile.) But we both could be horribly off-base.

[Fluxuated]

I'll admit, I clicked on this thread, because I saw who the OP was.

 

Looks like a classic case of KARMA to me.

 

The OP has attacked me previously as well, as he didn't like my opinion. He took to personal attacks, rather than a civil debate, so I must say, I'm NOT surprised that KARMA has swung back on him.

 

That's all, just had to mention that.

[+WRASTRO]

Just checked back in to this post and it feels like a lot of piling on right now. I don't agree with the position of or responses from the OP but this has the feeling of a weekend binge at this point.