holding your hand to the cache site...

[+westernPaBilly]

Hi everyone am new to the forum and I've barely have ever had my hands on a Gps device for all but 30 seconds. I have the Vista HcX coming in the mail any day now. I've spent my life in the woods year round enjpying various hobbies so I know a lot of great places around my area to make caches. I'm eager to get started !

I don't know if am a purest or what but after reading entries by the people beginning the cache do I need to tell people where to park,where to walk to the cache. Isn't that part of the chase to figure this out for yourself. I metal detect old foundations. No one is telling me where to park and the best way to get to those secluded spots and I enjoy very much figuring it out for myself. So I ask do you need your hand held out there in the woods ? ;-) lol

[+ArtieD]

Generally, I let people figure it out unless there is only one place that they may park to access the area I bring them to. One example is this cache I placed. With this one, the lake area is open to the public but access it limited to one entrance and they don't exactly make it easy to find the place.

 

Other than that, people are on their own.

[SidewinderGlenn]

Hi everyone am new to the forum and I've barely have ever had my hands on a Gps device for all but 30 seconds. I have the Vista HcX coming in the mail any day now. I've spent my life in the woods year round enjpying various hobbies so I know a lot of great places around my area to make caches. I'm eager to get started !

I don't know if am a purest or what but after reading entries by the people beginning the cache do I need to tell people where to park,where to walk to the cache. Isn't that part of the chase to figure this out for yourself. I metal detect old foundations. No one is telling me where to park and the best way to get to those secluded spots and I enjoy very much figuring it out for myself. So I ask do you need your hand held out there in the woods ? ;-) lol

 

I give parking coords to get cachers headed at my cache from the right direction ... instead of trying to approach it across private property or such. I also make use of a multi-stage to "lead" them in & keep them out of someone elses property. ~Glenn

[AZcachemeister]

Hi everyone am new to the forum and I've barely have ever had my hands on a Gps device for all but 30 seconds. I have the Vista HcX coming in the mail any day now. I've spent my life in the woods year round enjpying various hobbies so I know a lot of great places around my area to make caches. I'm eager to get started !

I don't know if am a purest or what but after reading entries by the people beginning the cache do I need to tell people where to park,where to walk to the cache. Isn't that part of the chase to figure this out for yourself. I metal detect old foundations. No one is telling me where to park and the best way to get to those secluded spots and I enjoy very much figuring it out for myself. So I ask do you need your hand held out there in the woods ? ;-) lol

 

Some do, some don't.

Sometimes a little assistance is appropriate so the seeker doesn't stray onto private property.

[+Morning Dew]

I think your going to do just fine. You do need to apply some common sense, though.

 

But yes, there are times when you will need to hold someone's hand and there will be times when you will need your hand held as well.

 

As you begin to find caches you will quickly understand. In my opinion, this game is really about good hides. They certainly don't have to be this awe inspiring, sensational experiences but there is quite a bit that goes into making even the simplest of placements a good hide. It isn't as easy as it sounds, as I soon discovered.

 

I'm sure others will list good examples of where hand holding is needed (private property issues being the most obvious and important).

 

Another example:

 

If you place a cache in a great spot that requires a one-way hike of 4 miles and you know the trailhead parking is a major pain in the butt to find and GPS units usually route you to the wrong spot, causing the finder to drive around something (river/mountain) a considerable distance to get to the trailhead then you have to ask yourself.

 

Do I make my hide experience "A lot of frustrated driving, landing a frustrated finder at the trailhead, not knowing they are about to embark on a one-way 4 mile hike, followed by a difficult hide that you did not explain" ?

 

Or Do you give them explicit directions and a waypoint to the parking area, warn them that this will be 8 miles of hiking and furthur warn them that the hide might be a toughy.

 

To me the second scenario is the experience I want.

 

If we just listed a set of coordinates and yelled "Go find it!" I think this game would have died a long time ago. What it has evolved into now, mostly is because of a necessity to make this a fun game for most people.

[Dinoprophet]

It depends. If it's a wide open park area, it often doesn't matter. If it's a tiny park at the end of a dead end street in the middle of a subdivision, it would be nice -- I don't cache to drive or walk around someone's neighborhood.

 

If private property near the cache is an issue, it's also helpful.

 

My current caches have parking coordinates, but it's not the closest parking -- it's the one that starts you on the more interesting route. I think that's also a good reason to give parking coordinates.

Edited June 7, 2008 by Dinoprophet

[+westernPaBilly]

Hi everyone am new to the forum and I've barely have ever had my hands on a Gps device for all but 30 seconds. I have the Vista HcX coming in the mail any day now. I've spent my life in the woods year round enjpying various hobbies so I know a lot of great places around my area to make caches. I'm eager to get started !

I don't know if am a purest or what but after reading entries by the people beginning the cache do I need to tell people where to park,where to walk to the cache. Isn't that part of the chase to figure this out for yourself. I metal detect old foundations. No one is telling me where to park and the best way to get to those secluded spots and I enjoy very much figuring it out for myself. So I ask do you need your hand held out there in the woods ? ;-) lol

 

Some do, some don't.

Sometimes a little assistance is appropriate so the seeker doesn't stray onto private property.

 

ok thanks guys I'll have to struggle with this in my own way as I go both setting up the cache and be the hunter. It's just after reading many of the peoples instructions some of the randomness and unpredictability (fun?) is taken out of things.I did think of the private property issue. Maybe I'll just buy a robot to retrieve the cache for me :-) Can robots be fined for trespassing if they stray of off their pre-programmed course ? would it be traceable back to me ? lol

[+Lady Loki]

Some people also appreciate "having their hand held", as you say, because of mobility issues. If I know it's a long hike and my chronic pain issues are acting up that day, I'll know to skip that cache for the time being.

 

You always have the option of ignoring the directions, too.

[+westernPaBilly]

Some people also appreciate "having their hand held", as you say, because of mobility issues. If I know it's a long hike and my chronic pain issues are acting up that day, I'll know to skip that cache for the time being.

 

You always have the option of ignoring the directions, too.

 

thanks for your input kitrona. I was also thinking of what instructions I should give to others as well.

[+JohnTee]

Everybody plays the game the way they want. Some caches are very obvious for locations, such as in a city park. Some require you to take certain roads to get close to the cache.I've seen caches with little more that the set of coordinates and no description verbiage, to directions for where to park, and where the trail starts. Keep in mind that it's a family friendly sport. If you send people chasing all over a national forest trying to find the road that gets them closest to the cache, they may not appreciate your good work.

 

I've done one like that in the Shawnee National Forest in S. Illinois. Using maps on my laptop, I spent the better part of the morning circling the edges of the national forest trying to find a road close to the cache. Ended up following one that looked like it went close to where I wanted, only to have it dead end in a farmyard. The farmer told me, "that road hasn't gone through to anywhere for as long as I've lived here." I ended up hiking a little ways, up and down some fairly rough territory from the east of the cache, only to find that there was another road just a little ways to the west. The owners intent was that cachers, 'explore Shawnee National Forest'. A little guidance, like use County Road xxx, would have been very nice.

 

So, think about what it was you are wanting the cachers to get out of your cache: beautiful scenery, a clever cache, some history of the area, etc. and nudge them along in that direction. There really is no need to be 'mean' about it and make them work extra hard to get to your cache. <grin>

 

Cache On!

 

JohnTee

[+westernPaBilly]

ok JohnTee you have some good points that I didn't think of. On the other hand if they have to more for themselves they might discover even more about the area then they would have otherwise and have a better feeling at the end of the day for doing it on their own.I guess there are trade offs either way you look at it.

 

Everybody plays the game the way they want. Some caches are very obvious for locations, such as in a city park. Some require you to take certain roads to get close to the cache.I've seen caches with little more that the set of coordinates and no description verbiage, to directions for where to park, and where the trail starts. Keep in mind that it's a family friendly sport. If you send people chasing all over a national forest trying to find the road that gets them closest to the cache, they may not appreciate your good work.

 

I've done one like that in the Shawnee National Forest in S. Illinois. Using maps on my laptop, I spent the better part of the morning circling the edges of the national forest trying to find a road close to the cache. Ended up following one that looked like it went close to where I wanted, only to have it dead end in a farmyard. The farmer told me, "that road hasn't gone through to anywhere for as long as I've lived here." I ended up hiking a little ways, up and down some fairly rough territory from the east of the cache, only to find that there was another road just a little ways to the west. The owners intent was that cachers, 'explore Shawnee National Forest'. A little guidance, like use County Road xxx, would have been very nice.

 

So, think about what it was you are wanting the cachers to get out of your cache: beautiful scenery, a clever cache, some history of the area, etc. and nudge them along in that direction. There really is no need to be 'mean' about it and make them work extra hard to get to your cache. <grin>

 

Cache On!

 

JohnTee

[+Morning Dew]

Billy,

 

The biggest thing is you need some finds under your belt. A lot will be much clearer once you get out there. Just in my short little caching career, I've run across caches where I walked away thinking "Why, the heck didn't they just add ONE simple sentence to the cache page. This would have been such a better experience." In none of those cases did I walk away thinking "Boy! Oh Boy! I learned that if you park here and walk into the woods you can't get to the other side of the river without walking back to my car, driving 23 miles out of my way and starting over. Boy Oh, Boy!" Especially in a part of the world I'll probably never return to again. It might be useful if I fished in that area often but you have to realize, not all cachers are local and/or care to learn "you must approach from the east" the hard way.

 

The only thing I think you might be making a mistake on is your simplfying it a bit too much. Like I said in post earlier, you are going to find many many examples where "hand holding" is used. You'll have to be the judge of whether or not you like it or not.

 

And yes, you'll discover as the hider, it will be your choice on what experience you want to create. If you want to put out a cache this is very confusing to get to through (various driving in circles), approaching the river from the wrong side, coming up against a cliff face with no climbing gear, etc. and not providing any of this info in the cace description then it is perfectly within your rights as a cache hider. I believe most people will even defend your decision. I certainly would

 

BUT, another thing you haven't probably considered. Expect a hide like that to have VERY few finds per year. Also, be aware that hiders quickly develop a "reputation". If you want to be known as the hider "who give no information, all his caches are a goat herding contest, because he feels I should explore the area" and you are comfortable with this reputation, then great. Probably, some local cachers will love it and pat you on the back everytime they see you, but be prepared to be ignored by the bulk of the local community.

 

However, if you put clear instructions like "Finding where to park for this cache can be a real challenge, use all your own necessary resources (Topo Maps, Plot Maps, etc), be prepared for dead ends and unpassable obstacles not only on the road but on foot, etc, etc." then I think you'll be a much more sucessfull hider, in my opinion and still create the same experience you were hoping for.

 

Going to do a cache, having a very frustrating time and not even getting started would probably rank up very high among cachers as a miserable experience. However, a few tips on what you're getting yourself into goes a very long ways.

Edited June 7, 2008 by Morning Dew

[+softball29]

Remember one thing when hiding -- in the end, the goal normally is to have someone find the cache.

 

If you are going to make it near impossible because you don't "want to hold somebody's hand," be sure there will be few finds. Personally, as a cache hider, I would hate that.

 

Make it challenging, but make it fun.

 

As someone else said, too, you should really get out there and actually find some caches first. You'll find how frustrating it can be for someone to not give you a hint on a cache in a small village park. Thirty minutes later, you leave scratching your head and not for the better, either.

 

The other day, me and a friend did a hike for two higher-terrain caches. We found the first, DNF'd on the second. The hike was pretty hardcore and there was no hint for the second because the hider said it was "an extreme, no hints." It stunk to DNF it and a hint might have helped us find it. As it is, it's a DNF and I won't go back because it was a long hike up a mountain and there's no guarantee I find it the next time.

 

Remember, when you hide, you are trying to get people to find the cache, not put your hides on ignore.

[+PhxChem]

I don't know if am a purest or what but after reading entries by the people beginning the cache do I need to tell people where to park,where to walk to the cache. Isn't that part of the chase to figure this out for yourself. I metal detect old foundations. No one is telling me where to park and the best way to get to those secluded spots and I enjoy very much figuring it out for myself. So I ask do you need your hand held out there in the woods ? ;-) lol

 

I'm confused as you didn't explain how to reply to your post.........

 

It took me like 3 whole seconds to figure it out. I'll never reply here again!!

 

[+westernPaBilly]

thanks morning,your right I won't want to see someone go up the wrong side of the creek/river. That really doesn't come into play too much where I live so I'll keep that in mind. In my 40 years of exploring I've never been stopped to where I've wanted to go because of a waterway and that's in areas where I've never been before Water ways around here seem to be either real big or real small so it's rather obvious It's not my intent to guide people into really rough areas as well like climbing cliffs,I don't do that either. thanks again

 

Billy,

 

The biggest thing is you need some finds under your belt. A lot will be much clearer once you get out there. Just in my short little caching career, I've run across caches where I walked away thinking "Why, the heck didn't they just add ONE simple sentence to the cache page. This would have been such a better experience." In none of those cases did I walk away thinking "Boy! Oh Boy! I learned that if you park here and walk into the woods you can't get to the other side of the river without walking back to my car, driving 23 miles out of my way and starting over. Boy Oh, Boy!" Especially in a part of the world I'll probably never return to again. It might be useful if I fished in that area often but you have to realize, not all cachers are local and/or care to learn "you must approach from the east" the hard way.

 

The only thing I think you might be making a mistake on is your simplfying it a bit too much. Like I said in post earlier, you are going to find many many examples where "hand holding" is used. You'll have to be the judge of whether or not you like it or not.

 

And yes, you'll discover as the hider, it will be your choice on what experience you want to create. If you want to put out a cache this is very confusing to get to through (various driving in circles), approaching the river from the wrong side, coming up against a cliff face with no climbing gear, etc. and not providing any of this info in the cace description then it is perfectly within your rights as a cache hider. I believe most people will even defend your decision. I certainly would

 

BUT, another thing you haven't probably considered. Expect a hide like that to have VERY few finds per year. Also, be aware that hiders quickly develop a "reputation". If you want to be known as the hider "who give no information, all his caches are a goat herding contest, because he feels I should explore the area" and you are comfortable with this reputation, then great. Probably, some local cachers will love it and pat you on the back everytime they see you, but be prepared to be ignored by the bulk of the local community.

 

However, if you put clear instructions like "Finding where to park for this cache can be a real challenge, use all your own necessary resources (Topo Maps, Plot Maps, etc), be prepared for dead ends and unpassable obstacles not only on the road but on foot, etc, etc." then I think you'll be a much more sucessfull hider, in my opinion and still create the same experience you were hoping for.

 

Going to do a cache, having a very frustrating time and not even getting started would probably rank up very high among cachers as a miserable experience. However, a few tips on what you're getting yourself into goes a very long ways.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Hi everyone am new to the forum and I've barely have ever had my hands on a Gps device for all but 30 seconds. I have the Vista HcX coming in the mail any day now. I've spent my life in the woods year round enjpying various hobbies so I know a lot of great places around my area to make caches. I'm eager to get started !

I don't know if am a purest or what but after reading entries by the people beginning the cache do I need to tell people where to park,where to walk to the cache. Isn't that part of the chase to figure this out for yourself. I metal detect old foundations. No one is telling me where to park and the best way to get to those secluded spots and I enjoy very much figuring it out for myself. So I ask do you need your hand held out there in the woods ? ;-) lol

For most of our caches, particularly our wilderness caches, unless suitable parking options are extremely obvious and commonsense, we provide suggest parking coordinates on the cache listing page, along with any other needed caveats, such as need to avoid a plot of posted private property inholding in the middle of a wilderness area inside the boundaries of a state park.

[+westernPaBilly]

ok someone contacted me and explained the history of geocaching. I guess a lot of people are concerned with running up the tally on finds and they want it quick and easy.Wham bam get in,get out quickly.That sounds wonderful...err thank you sir !

 

Hi everyone am new to the forum and I've barely have ever had my hands on a Gps device for all but 30 seconds. I have the Vista HcX coming in the mail any day now. I've spent my life in the woods year round enjpying various hobbies so I know a lot of great places around my area to make caches. I'm eager to get started !

I don't know if am a purest or what but after reading entries by the people beginning the cache do I need to tell people where to park,where to walk to the cache. Isn't that part of the chase to figure this out for yourself. I metal detect old foundations. No one is telling me where to park and the best way to get to those secluded spots and I enjoy very much figuring it out for myself. So I ask do you need your hand held out there in the woods ? ;-) lol

For most of our caches, particularly our wilderness caches, unless suitable parking options are extremely obvious and commonsense, we provide suggest parking coordinates on the cache listing page, along with any other needed caveats, such as need to avoid a plot of posted private property inholding in the middle of a wilderness area inside the boundaries of a state park.

[Dinoprophet]

ok someone contacted me and explained the history of geocaching. I guess a lot of people are concerned with running up the tally on finds and they want it quick and easy.Wham bam get in,get out quickly.That sounds wonderful...err thank you sir !

While that's true, that's not the same attitude as wanting advice on where to park. I simply want as much of my available time to be on the trail, not driving around.

[+Slabcity Gang]

I was going to post an example cache as to one person, in my opinion, giving away too much info. but chose not to make it appear as though I am pointing out any particular individual. Instead here is how the cache description ends:

 

"..The cache is a park and grab but in the winter you may have to walk about two tenths of a mile to the cache location. Just look for the lone evergreen tree in the corner of the parking lot. The cache is a camo film container tied to the tree about five feet above the ground."

 

Even thought this cache is close to my house I see no reason to go there and get a smiley, I prefer to work a bit harder than this. I MAY go without a GPS someday to see if it is as easy as it appears to be to find.

[+westernPaBilly]

good one ! somewhere along the line there I think that guy forgot people were going to be approaching the site with a gps device. this is "out comes based geocaching"

 

I was going to post an example cache as to one person, in my opinion, giving away too much info. but chose not to make it appear as though I am pointing out any particular individual. Instead here is how the cache description ends:

 

"..The cache is a park and grab but in the winter you may have to walk about two tenths of a mile to the cache location. Just look for the lone evergreen tree in the corner of the parking lot. The cache is a camo film container tied to the tree about five feet above the ground."

 

Even thought this cache is close to my house I see no reason to go there and get a smiley, I prefer to work a bit harder than this. I MAY go without a GPS someday to see if it is as easy as it appears to be to find.

[+uxorious]

If you lived in my area, your caches would go on ignore before you even hid them.

 

Your attitude is one of someone who thinks he knows how this is supposed to work, and anyone who doesn't agree is somehow less of a man.

 

There are many reasons to add hints and helps. Not everyone has the same abilities, nor do they see things the same way. Just because someone adds hints or parking to their cache, and seekers use them, does not mean any one needs to have "their hands held."

 

I like quick park and grabs, love the hikes to more secluded caches, and wish I was still physically able to do the long treks to a cache. Sometimes, hints and parking will enable me to go after caches my limited mobility would exclude with out them.

 

Welcome to Geocaching, and I hope you have many years of enjoyment from it. But do yourself and the rest of us a favor and lose the attitude.

[+westernPaBilly]

you could be missing some really interestng places.

 

If you lived in my area, your caches would go on ignore before you even hid them.

[+westernPaBilly]

you could be missing some really interestng places.

 

If you lived in my area, your caches would go on ignore before you even hid them.

[+westernPaBilly]

sorry for the double post,I got a timed out fatal error the first time.

 

you could be missing some really interestng places.

 

If you lived in my area, your caches would go on ignore before you even hid them.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Here's a great solution... download a PQ, load it into your GPS, go caching!

 

No info but the name and coordinates.

 

If you don't want your hand held don't read the listings!

[+Annie & PB]

There are as many reasons why people may value a little extra infomation on a cache page as there are cachers. And as many different ways of 'playing the game' as there are cachers.

 

Some of the reasons that just a little (or a lot) extra info may help are:

- making sure people avoid private property

- making sure people avoid dangerous (or just plain nasty) areas

- so that people with a range of abilities can make an informed decision as to whether a cache is within their capabilities today

- to make people aware of local laws/by-laws e.g. what time a park is open.

- so people can judge whether a cache is 'child/family-friendly' or not

- so travellers and out-of-towners can spend their precious time in a new area actually caching and not driving around in annoying endless circles

 

That's just what I can think of now. I'm sure others will add more.

 

Annie

[+Stargazer22]

With the high cost of gas these days, I certainly don't see posting parking coordinates as 'holding my hand'.

I have to plan my caching around the cost of driving, and I wouldn't enjoy burning up all the gas I have to use for caching running around in circles trying to find access or parking for just one cache.

 

I personally prefer caches that involve a hike of a few miles, so I am ready to park my vehicle and hit the trails for hiking. I like to arrive at the crack of dawn as this gives me a much better chance of seeing deer, turkeys, bear, and other wildlife. Getting there late because I had to drive a bunch of extra miles I didn't need to would not be a good start to my caching day.

 

I would say that for most caches, it is usually not necessary to give extra help, as it is usually fairly easy to figure out where to park and find access. However, on those that have restricted access that is not obvious unless you are very familiar with the area, some helpful hints are very welcome to keep me from wasting my caching gas and my time.