Do you know of anyone playing the game differently than you?

[+bluedragonfly]

Okay, maybe cheating is harsh but I wanted to get someones attention I posted this in the geocaching.com forum, I am getting veiws but no answer. Maybe someone here can answer my question. I recieved an email notification of a new cache in my area. I recieved the email at 10:26 AM. I checked the cache page only to find that someone had got up earlier than the rest of their family and went and got FTF, which leads me to believe that this person recieved the notification well before I did. This is the second time this has happened in 1 month. The last time this same person had found the cache a whole day before it was even published (according to the time stamps and date). Has anyone else ever had this problem? can anyone tell me why this is happening?

Edited June 6, 2008 by bluedragonfly

[+El Diablo]

If they are logging the cache prior to it being published, my guess is they are being given the coordinates in advance. I wouldn't sweat it though. Just go find the cache and enjoy your experience.

 

El Diablo

[+StaticTank]

They might be the hiders friend and there is nothing that says you cannot tell your friends where your caches are hidden.

 

The value of FTFs are in our heads. Geocaching.com has no way to track them and probably doesn't care about them. There is no rule that says you can't tell people where they are before you publish them.

 

I know there was a problem with the WAP site where it was showing unpublished caches, but according to the latest realease notes this was fixed.

[Skippermark]

The question is when was the cache published online. It sounds like it was found very early in the morning before you got notification at 10:26.

 

Could it be that your email notification is getting "held up" coming to you. I know my email was having trouble for awhile, and I'd receive the email much later than others.

 

Some people send new cache notifications to cell phones, and they may be on the road not far from the new cache and can find it before others have gotten out of the house.

 

Edited to change "logged" to "published" in the first sentence.

Edited June 6, 2008 by Skippermark

[+briansnat]

Maybe your mail server is just slower. Maybe the other person was given the coords pre-publishing. No cheating at all in either case, though to brag about being FTF if you were given the coordinates ahead of time would be the height of chutzpah.

[CurmudgeonlyGal]

The cache approval people do that kind of stuff all the time - sneak in there and steal all the FTF's from us normal, paying-for-the-privilege folk.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gosh. I'm just kidding!

 

 

michelle

[Skippermark]

I know of a cache owner that says in their cache pages that there is to be "no cheating" on FTFs by using the cache notification option for premium members.

[+Thrak]

Sometimes notification is delayed on my email for one reason or another. A few times I never even got notified and found out about the new cache several days after it was published. It happens.

 

I missed a FTF a little while back even though I got immediate notice and zoomed out the door. Other folks were driving past the cache site and got the notice on their phone. They stopped and snagged it. No way to beat that!

[+TotemLake]

Cheating? There's cheating going on? Get the rope!!!

[Skippermark]

We tried for an FTF recently. Got there 7 minutes after it was published. Was 4th to find. The FTF time on the log clearly indicated they were there about 2 minutes after being published.

 

They must have had phone notification (or lived across the street) and been in the right area the right time.

[+WebChimp]

Has anyone else ever had this problem? can anyone tell me why this is happening?

 

Yes.

 

Turned out the FTF cacher had purchased the Secret, Extra-Special Premium Membership at GC.Com. The SESPM membership level gets the notification email 45 minutes before all other Premium Members get the email.

 

The only membership option better than that is the Double Secret, Really-Extra-Special Premium Membership option, which allows DSRESPM to receive the notification email before the cache is hidden. Very few cachers can afford the DSRESPM fees.

 

Or, it could be your email is just slow.

 

Either way, it's really just an "Oh, well!" situation. Ignore it, and carry on.

[Skippermark]

Around here, it's generally accepted that you can log a find if you are with the owner when it's placed, but some of those actually log it as an FTF too.

[+gof1]

I swear I am going to hide a cache and advertise the coordinates on a bumper sticker on the wife's minivan and NOT publish it until someone has already found the cache. There are no rules regarding the "FTF race". With no rules to brake there is no way to cheat. I'm glad the FTF hounds enjoy that competition, but see no reason the rest of us have to care at all about who is "cheating" and who isn't.

 

In a more practical answer for your use try signing up for one or two of the alternate sites. It isn't unusual for a cache to be listed on more than one site.

[+flask]

there are a lot of goofy and disreputable practices that don't qualify as "cheating".

 

due t the nature of the game, i think the only real cheating is claiming to have found caches that you haven't. even with that, though, since there's really nothing at stake, it matters little.

[+infiniteMPG]

Some people have notifications set up on their phone so the moment it's published their phone buzzes them in and they can get the coords, too. Had that happen with my cache Don't HESSitate GCYEMF and I think the FTF log sums it up :

 

Ughhhh! I was PLACING a cache here when the notification came across my mobile email! No kidding on hesitation!

 

new record on FTF...

 

under 2 minutes of publish

 

And as far as finding caches with owner when hidden, we've had a few of those out in a big preserve when hiking and geocaching together. If one of the group hides a new hide they do it on their own. Then they give the coords to the others who still have to find it but they don't have to make another trip out and hike ten miles to get to it. But we don't enter a log on the cache page until someone else finds it so they can claim the FTF. Just being courtious and FTF's are nice but so are smilies.

Edited June 6, 2008 by infiniteMPG

[+Lil Weed Pot and Flower]

My question is who is getting cheated? I know how many FTF's I have and was the second to find one where the FTF contacted the planter to find it to get the FTF. Big deal. I see some groups of geocachers post on one name so they have thousands of finds. I don't compete against anyone, just enjoy the search.

[CurmudgeonlyGal]

My question is who is getting cheated? ...

 

Only the people who care about getting the 'recognition' of being the FTF.

 

Hey, maybe we need a NEW icon! Someone post this in the Geocaching.com Website forum, quick.

 

 

 

michelle

[+va griz]

I know of a cache owner that says in their cache pages that there is to be "no cheating" on FTFs by using the cache notification option for premium members.

 

This one puzzles me. Is he saying that only non-premium members can be FTF? I know some folks resent the idea of others paying for the service, but I've never seen a penalty* before.

 

*OK, penalty may be to strong a term for this, whatever.

 

Edited because who'ed of thought I could mispeel FTF? A new record

Edited June 6, 2008 by va griz

[CurmudgeonlyGal]

I know of a cache owner that says in their cache pages that there is to be "no cheating" on FTFs by using the cache notification option for premium members.

 

This one puzzles me. Is he saying that only non-premium members can be TFT? I know some folks resent the idea of others paying for the service, but I've never seen a penalty* before.

 

*OK, penalty may be to strong a term for this, whatever.

 

And how do you 'prove' that you 'didn't use' the service?

 

And what if you have the service, and get FTF, anyway? Does being a premium member automatically invalidate your find if you're first? Does he take your smiley away? Award the 'congratulations' on his cache page to someone else?

 

What? What? What?

 

It's silliness, and indicative of someone who has control issues.

 

 

 

michelle

[+JacobBarlow]

The notifications don't come to everyone at the same time, I have friends who get the same notification 5 or 30 minutes after I do, and I'm probably after other people, I've many times seen the cache on the website and then a couple minutes later received the notification...

[+Adium]

We tried for an FTF recently. Got there 7 minutes after it was published. Was 4th to find. The FTF time on the log clearly indicated they were there about 2 minutes after being published.

 

They must have had phone notification (or lived across the street) and been in the right area the right time.

2 minutes? If I am on the road it would take me at least that to punch in the coordinates without my computer.

[+Adium]

I know of a cache owner that says in their cache pages that there is to be "no cheating" on FTFs by using the cache notification option for premium members.

 

This one puzzles me. Is he saying that only non-premium members can be TFT? I know some folks resent the idea of others paying for the service, but I've never seen a penalty* before.

 

*OK, penalty may be to strong a term for this, whatever.

 

And how do you 'prove' that you 'didn't use' the service?

 

And what if you have the service, and get FTF, anyway? Does being a premium member automatically invalidate your find if you're first? Does he take your smiley away? Award the 'congratulations' on his cache page to someone else?

 

What? What? What?

 

It's silliness, and indicative of someone who has control issues.

 

 

 

michelle

 

It's $3 per month. I could afford that with the allowance I was getting in middle school 20 years ago. (If this was around then I probably would have paid it too).

[+1stwarrior95]

I don't even know how to set up the notifications. How do I do that?

 

Someday I wouldn't mind being a FTF'er but it's no big deal either way.

[+flask]

one day i called up crashco and i said "there's about to be a cache published on river road. let's go".

 

i based my assumption on the appearance of a TB in a cache that i'd never heard of, and on my familiarity with the terrain.

 

we got there nine minutes after it was published to find that it had been logged the day before.

 

some guys we know were looking for a different cache and stopped there on a hunch.

 

cheating? not hardly.

 

that, my friends, is ADVANCED cache sense.

[+El Diablo]

I don't even know how to set up the notifications. How do I do that?

 

Someday I wouldn't mind being a FTF'er but it's no big deal either way.

 

Go to "Your Account" on the main GC.com page. You'll find it on the right hand side of the page.

 

El Diablo

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I swear I am going to hide a cache and advertise the coordinates on a bumper sticker on the wife's minivan and NOT publish it until someone has already found the cache.

 

I may have to try that one. Publish it as a puzzle, with basically a blank listing. Maybe just a:

 

"Not at the listed coordinates. You'll know 'em when you see 'em."

 

kind of listing. Then put the coordinates on the cache mobile and see what happens.

[+gof1]

I swear I am going to hide a cache and advertise the coordinates on a bumper sticker on the wife's minivan and NOT publish it until someone has already found the cache.

 

I may have to try that one. Publish it as a puzzle, with basically a blank listing. Maybe just a:

 

"Not at the listed coordinates. You'll know 'em when you see 'em."

 

kind of listing. Then put the coordinates on the cache mobile and see what happens.

 

HAHA. Keep me posted.

[+Gipsie]

Edited June 7, 2008 by gipsie

[4wheelin_fool]

... which leads me to believe that this person recieved the notification well before I did. This is the second time this has happened in 1 month. The last time this same person had found the cache a whole day before it was even published (according to the time stamps and date). Has anyone else ever had this problem? can anyone tell me why this is happening?

It's perfectly OK. Platinum members get advance notifications of cache publications, but are encouraged to not make it look too obvious.

[+Sparticus06]

I would say almost every cacher has done this. I know when I first started, couple of the local cachers would give me the cords the day they hid it. I would not go out to get the cache till it was published, but it did make it easier to just run out the door with everything ready. I texted a fellow cacher, who had asked a what a FTF was, and gave him the cords to my cache that just got published. He made the FTF, but said it felt like he cheated. Told him he didnt cheat, just got the cords before he got home from work. 10 minutes after him, another cacher was there. I really dont see a problem with it. I know quite a few around here do it. But they dont tell just one cacher, they tell many. Makes a race out of it....lmao

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I don't compete against anyone, just enjoy the search.

 

Sums up my philosophy perfectly. I'm happy enough just for the activity and to log a find.

 

Bruce

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I swear I am going to hide a cache and advertise the coordinates on a bumper sticker on the wife's minivan and NOT publish it until someone has already found the cache.

 

I may have to try that one. Publish it as a puzzle, with basically a blank listing. Maybe just a:

 

"Not at the listed coordinates. You'll know 'em when you see 'em."

 

kind of listing. Then put the coordinates on the cache mobile and see what happens.

 

HAHA. Keep me posted.

 

Gonna call it "A Blank Page".

Edited June 7, 2008 by BBWolf+3Pigs

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Has anyone else ever had this problem? can anyone tell me why this is happening?

 

Yes.

 

Turned out the FTF cacher had purchased the Secret, Extra-Special Premium Membership at GC.Com. The SESPM membership level gets the notification email 45 minutes before all other Premium Members get the email.

 

The only membership option better than that is the Double Secret, Really-Extra-Special Premium Membership option, which allows DSRESPM to receive the notification email before the cache is hidden. Very few cachers can afford the DSRESPM fees.

 

Or, it could be your email is just slow.

 

Either way, it's really just an "Oh, well!" situation. Ignore it, and carry on.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for having managed, in your post, to avoid mentioning Platinum membership and the attendant benefits thereof. We try to keep that whole matter, including the 24-hour advance notice on most cache publications, very low profile around here.

[+24kilo]

Tell me what's the goal in Geocaching? In other words when it started what was the goal? I should say.

 

Was it the Numbers?

The FTF's?

The Hides?

 

Or was in the thrill of the search ,getting out and seeing stuff, walking in the woods, doing stuff with friends and or family in a healthy environment.

 

To many People take this game way to serious, It's not like your going to lose, get kicked off your team and not be able to play again ,Go out and enjoy what it was made for. Sorry had to get that off my chest.

[+the hermit crabs]

Tell me what's the goal in Geocaching? In other words when it started what was the goal? I should say.

 

Was it the Numbers?

The FTF's?

The Hides?

 

Or was in the thrill of the search ,getting out and seeing stuff, walking in the woods, doing stuff with friends and or family in a healthy environment.

 

To many People take this game way to serious, It's not like your going to lose, get kicked off your team and not be able to play again ,Go out and enjoy what it was made for. Sorry had to get that off my chest.

When it first started, I think the only goal was "Hey, let's see what we can do with these things now that Selective Availability has been turned off."

 

Since then it has evolved considerably. Different cachers have different goals. For some it's seeing new places, for some it's socializing with other people, for some it's the ability to get away from other people... for some it's a way to get their kids away from the video games. Some like a challenging hide, some like a challenging hike with an easy hide. And yes, for some it is to get the highest numbers possible -- and this is no less valid a goal than any of the others.

 

Different people have different ideas of what is fun. The FTF race is incredibly fun for some people, and meaningless for others. One of the great things about caching is that the cache is (usually) still there after the FTF race is over -- so both types of people get to go for it when it suits them.

 

It would be pointless (not to mention boring) to pick some arbitrary point in the early stages of geocaching's evolution and to say "Only this is in the true spirit of caching; everything else is a corruption of this early (but not original) ideal."

Edited June 7, 2008 by the hermit crabs

[+Unkle Fester]

Has anyone else ever had this problem? can anyone tell me why this is happening?

 

Yes.

 

Turned out the FTF cacher had purchased the Secret, Extra-Special Premium Membership at GC.Com. The SESPM membership level gets the notification email 45 minutes before all other Premium Members get the email.

 

The only membership option better than that is the Double Secret, Really-Extra-Special Premium Membership option, which allows DSRESPM to receive the notification email before the cache is hidden. Very few cachers can afford the DSRESPM fees.

 

Or, it could be your email is just slow.

 

Either way, it's really just an "Oh, well!" situation. Ignore it, and carry on.

 

Once you get the DSRESPM you have the option to upgrade to the premium package. That's what I did. Costs a little extra, but well worth it.

[AZcachemeister]

Do you know of anyone playing the game differently than you think is right?

 

I see the title of the thread has been edited, previously a question of cheating.

 

To answer the original question: No. You can't really cheat if there is no winner.

 

To answer the current question: YES! Every one of you low-lifes is playing differently than I think is right!

 

Even fellow cachers that I would trust my life with have done things I don't agree with.

The 'me' of today looks back at the 'me' of three years ago and has regrets about what was done to make the find.

Certainly the 'me' of the future will also look back and wonder what the 'me' of today was thinking.

 

'It's all fun...until someone looses an eye!'

So, unless someone's activity has caused you real physical harm, don't worry about how they play.

[+flask]

the OP seems to be very, very concerned about this "cheating". i'm not sure why.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

the OP seems to be very, very concerned about this "cheating". i'm not sure why.

Well, there seems to be a bit of a drama queen acting-out fad this week, where posters seem to be tending to use rather grossly exaggerated and over-dramatized terms to describe behaviors with which they disagree. As a former clinical psychologist/psychotherapist, I tend to call such folks drama queens. For some odd reason, online forums and email list groups tend to act as magnets for drama queens and also for folks with a sense of entitlement, and also for "walking victims", that is, people who feel that they are being victimized by other (mean and nasty) parties and particularly by authority figures.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Do you know of anyone playing the game differently than you think is right?

Yes, I do!

 

In fact the whole world would be a better place if they'd just do what I want.

 

Can you make them do that for me? I'd appreciate it. A lot.

 

Thank you.

[+KoosKoos]

Do you know of anyone playing the game differently than you think is right?

Yes, I do!

 

In fact the whole world would be a better place if they'd just do what I want.

 

Can you make them do that for me? I'd appreciate it. A lot.

 

Thank you.

 

Totally agree...and while you're at it, can you also take care of the people who drive differently than me, shop differently than me, and talk differently than me?

 

The world would be SOOOOOOOOOO much easier if everyone was EXACTLY like me. There'd never be any disagreements about anything and everyone's idea of fun would be just like mine and we could all go have my kinds of fun all the time.

 

So let's get right on that, people.

[+Shop99er]

the OP seems to be very, very concerned about this "cheating". i'm not sure why.

Cuz he wants an FTF so bad, he's ready to explode, I'll wager.

[+Insane Kangaroo]

Talk about taking things too seriously >.> The fun of geocaching are for the experiences finding the cache, to read the logs, and to sometimes see beautiful locations.

[+DaFunkyFrogs]

How can someone cheat when there are NO RULES broken? That's one of the wonderful things about geocaching--you can make up your own rules for how YOU play it--just don't expect anybody else to follow those rules cuz they made up their own.........

[Skippermark]

And what if you have the service, and get FTF, anyway? Does being a premium member automatically invalidate your find if you're first? Does he take your smiley away? Award the 'congratulations' on his cache page to someone else?

 

What? What? What?

 

LOL. You're funny. I'm not really sure, but I had to read the description twice when I saw it to make sure I read it correctly. It's outside my range for FTFs, so I'm glad I don't have to test it.

[+sassydil]

We tried for an FTF recently. Got there 7 minutes after it was published. Was 4th to find. The FTF time on the log clearly indicated they were there about 2 minutes after being published.

 

They must have had phone notification (or lived across the street) and been in the right area the right time.

 

Receipt of the email or phone notification just depends on your service. I received the email on GC1D1HR shortly after 9 PM. Debated a bit about going out in the dark to get it and finally decided to load it and another new one and go for them. The cache is several miles from home and I was over there signing the log at 9:14 PM.

 

The second to find didn't get it on his phone until 9:36 PM and got to the cache at 9:46 - I had gotten another FTF 4 miles down the road and was back home by then.

Edited June 9, 2008 by sassydil

[+Annie & PB]

In answer to the question in the title -- my response would be: I don't think I know anyone who DOES 'play the game' the same as me!!!!!!

 

Not even my caching partner and husband - the PB half of the team (But I love him anyway)

 

Everyone has their own variation and nuances to how they do this addiction.

 

Annie

[+lrosell]

OK, I’m gonna weigh in on this one again…

 

- Do I know anyone playing the game differently from me?

 

Yes, most people I know that are caching and people I’m caching with. For example, myself, farmall243 and toddluke went for a FTF once, initiated by me i.e. I called them and said “Hey, there’s a new cache posted, wanna go after work?"

To make a long story short; I was the only one with a GPS! Farmall243 brought himself and toddluke brought an umbrella. I think that qualifies for playing the game differently…

 

-Is it possible that someone could know about unpublished caches before they are published?

 

Yes. At least it was, on wap.geocaching.com, until they fixed the bug.

 

-Is it possible that someone still can find out about unpublished caches before they are published?

 

Absolutely. www.geocaching.com is a website like any other and most sites can be compromised one way or another.

 

- Do I really care if someone beats us to a FTF by “cheating”?

 

I guess that depends on how serious you take the “sacred hunt for the FTF”. Personally I think it’s fun with an FTF every now and then, but I only get upset if toddluke beats me to it.

 

But that’s just because he is my boss and I'm the one that got him started on Geocaching…

Edited June 10, 2008 by lrosell

[+Kiwi Nomad]

Only had 2 ftfs so far (so averaging 1 per 100 finds )

My problem is finding it! Have been first to hunt a number of times but first to find seems to be harder to achieve!

 

Got to log a earthcache recently before it was published, wasn't going to be anyone log it probably until September if those of us on the trip didn't log it. No we weren't told all the questions at the location, just the photo and elevation.

 

I like going for ftf but even when a cache is available doesn't mean I have a car or babysitter so I can go out and get it. Also I don't like hunting for them at night by myself. Them the breaks, just wish people would write longer logs online, but thats a different thread!

[+Markwell]

Around here, we have a group of people that place caches in tributes to cachers when they reach milestones with three zeros (1000th find, 2000th find, etc.). When they do so, it is with a spray-painted ammo that they hide in close proximity of the owner's home territory. My understanding is that they receive a notification in some very imaginative ways of the coordinates, and are invited to find the cache prior to publication as a "reward" for reaching the milestone. The publication only happens after the recipient finds the cache and is ready to log it.