rules and a favor

[+Teewinot]

Hello all, Teewinot here hailing from Glendive, Montana. I am working with the chamber of commerce in town to launch a geocoin challenge in a couple of weeks hopefully. So I have questions and a favor to ask. The question. Does anyone know the rules in regards to placing caches in front of a business. here is the scenario. We want to have caches placed around the town in front of businesses that are supporting the coin project. As a cacher, you would find the cache and then walk into the business and collect a game piece from the clerk. No obligation to buy anything, but we are trying to get people to see the businesses in town. So does this breach any rules? and along those lines, can we have the final cache placed inside of the chamber of commerce? the idea here is after you have found all the pieces to the puzzle, it leads you back to the chamber where you get the coin, and then you could log a cache as well. If anyone knows the answers or can point me to a rule book, please do. And now the favor. Look up Glendive and you see how small of a town it is. I do not have access to many travel bugs or coins without driving three hours to bismark or billings. We want the final cache to be large and filled with goodies. Would anyone be willing to mail me some coins or travel bugs to fill our cache? I would offer to pay the shipping, but I am not rich and if a lot of people do send them I could be bankrupt soon! If anyone would do this that would be a great asset to the caching experience we are trying to provide in town. Thank you for your time. If interested in sending coins or TB's please contact me through my profile to get my address. And keep your eyes posted for the glendive coin challenge, I will post here when we are up and running.

[+Harriet the Spy]

Do you have to go inside the store or participate in the game to log your smilie?

[+Teewinot]

Do you have to go inside the store or participate in the game to log your smilie?

The cache will remain OUTSIDE of the establishment after the coin challenge is over for anyone to find. so you can log a smilie without entering the business. But in order to get a coin, you would enter the business and obtain a puzzle piece.

[+hydnsek]

Sounds like this idea would violate the Commercial Caches section of this site, to wit:

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.

 

Unless you get the required Groundspeak approval, of course. I got hung up on this one once when I wanted to have folks go into a Lowe's to get numbers off paint chips (no purchase, just paint numbers) - not allowed, and the cache didn't seem worth trying to get approval.

 

The Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines has lots of useful info.

Edited May 30, 2008 by hydnsek

[+Spencersb]

I'll help ya out. The least I can do since I barely got to Salem before you had to split!

 

Have you talked to Ornith or Bostonmangum? They've both set up coin challenges before.

[+coreynjoey]

I've seen a few caches where they were located inside a business, so it does seem doable. As long as you aren't required to buy anything, it's probably ok. Canby, OR had a coin challenege that was similar, where you had to go to the Chamber of Commerce to get the coin after logging the required caches. I'd run it by Groundspeak first though, they'll help you set it up right.

[Team Misguided]

You should first talk to your local reviewer and then run the idea past Groundspeak. It does go against several of the listing guidelines.

 

The caches themselves may be okay since they can be logged without going into any business but using the Groundspeak cache listing service to promote anything does require special permission. You'd be best to run this through HQ to work out how it can be done within the guidelines.

[+Teewinot]

Sounds like this idea would violate the Commercial Caches section of this site, to wit:

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.

 

Unless you get the required Groundspeak approval, of course. I got hung up on this one once when I wanted to have folks go into a Lowe's to get numbers off paint chips (no purchase, just paint numbers) - not allowed, and the cache didn't seem worth trying to get approval.

 

The Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines has lots of useful info.

Thank you for the information hydnsek, I tried surfing through the rules but did not find it. But what you have outlined there pretty much tells me my idea is a no go. I think I will simply stick to finding caches in town with passwords. Thanks for the post.

[+Teewinot]

You should first talk to your local reviewer and then run the idea past Groundspeak. It does go against several of the listing guidelines.

 

The caches themselves may be okay since they can be logged without going into any business but using the Groundspeak cache listing service to promote anything does require special permission. You'd be best to run this through HQ to work out how it can be done within the guidelines.

I did talk to my reviewer and they simply told me to contact Groundspeak. I emailed them about 2 weeks ago and have not heard back. I know they get tons of email so I know it may take awhile, thats why I turned to the forums. The post that hydnsek left pretty much spells out that what I wanted to do is against the rules. Thats ok, we can work around it and do something else.

[+hydnsek]

Thank you for the information hydnsek, I tried surfing through the rules but did not find it. But what you have outlined there pretty much tells me my idea is a no go. I think I will simply stick to finding caches in town with passwords. Thanks for the post.

No sweat, glad I could help. (I thought I'd give Team Misguided a break from quoting this section of the guidelines. )

 

Hope you can work out a solution that will achieve your goals.

[+hydnsek]

I've seen a few caches where they were located inside a business, so it does seem doable. As long as you aren't required to buy anything, it's probably ok. Canby, OR had a coin challenege that was similar, where you had to go to the Chamber of Commerce to get the coin after logging the required caches. I'd run it by Groundspeak first though, they'll help you set it up right.

I bet most of them are grandfathered. The rules on commercial caches changed about a year ago.

 

For example, I had no problem getting the first iteration of my paint-by-numbers cache published in 2004, which required you to go into a Lowe's and find paint-chip numbers (no purchase, just an intel visit to the store). But when I archived it and tried to create a new version in 2007, using the same concept, the reviewer told me the rules had changed and it was now deemed commercial because folks had to go into a store.

 

Of course, permission from Groundspeak trumps the guidelines.

Edited May 30, 2008 by hydnsek

[+Ambrosia]

You should first talk to your local reviewer and then run the idea past Groundspeak. It does go against several of the listing guidelines.

 

The caches themselves may be okay since they can be logged without going into any business but using the Groundspeak cache listing service to promote anything does require special permission. You'd be best to run this through HQ to work out how it can be done within the guidelines.

I did talk to my reviewer and they simply told me to contact Groundspeak. I emailed them about 2 weeks ago and have not heard back. I know they get tons of email so I know it may take awhile, thats why I turned to the forums. The post that hydnsek left pretty much spells out that what I wanted to do is against the rules. Thats ok, we can work around it and do something else.

At the same time, it is a simple thing to write to Groundspeak and ask. They're nice people, and won't give you a hard time. The worst that could happen is that they say no, but it never hurts to try!

[+Jennifer&Dean]

Hello all, Teewinot here hailing from Glendive, Montana. I am working with the chamber of commerce in town to launch a geocoin challenge in a couple of weeks hopefully. So I have questions and a favor to ask. The question. Does anyone know the rules in regards to placing caches in front of a business. here is the scenario. We want to have caches placed around the town in front of businesses that are supporting the coin project. As a cacher, you would find the cache and then walk into the business and collect a game piece from the clerk. No obligation to buy anything, but we are trying to get people to see the businesses in town. So does this breach any rules? and along those lines, can we have the final cache placed inside of the chamber of commerce? the idea here is after you have found all the pieces to the puzzle, it leads you back to the chamber where you get the coin, and then you could log a cache as well. If anyone knows the answers or can point me to a rule book, please do. And now the favor. Look up Glendive and you see how small of a town it is. I do not have access to many travel bugs or coins without driving three hours to bismark or billings. We want the final cache to be large and filled with goodies. Would anyone be willing to mail me some coins or travel bugs to fill our cache? I would offer to pay the shipping, but I am not rich and if a lot of people do send them I could be bankrupt soon! If anyone would do this that would be a great asset to the caching experience we are trying to provide in town. Thank you for your time. If interested in sending coins or TB's please contact me through my profile to get my address. And keep your eyes posted for the glendive coin challenge, I will post here when we are up and running.

Hi!

Sounds like a neat game. Did you see last year's state hidden treasures promotion? They hid a bunch of Ammo cans all over the state, inside and outside businesses. But they didn't' post them on GC.com. The biggest complaint I heard was about businesses being closed when Geocachers could be active.

What I mean- I drive to visit Glendive from Missoula, MT. No matter when I leave Missoula it is gonna be about a day later when I roll into town with all the wonderful geocaches to find between here and there. And more likely than not, it will be about 6 pm. So I will go out to find the local caches. And if the businesses are closed I will not be able to get the game pieces to get to the final cache. So I will be disappointed and sad because this sounds like a neat idea.

Long story short- is there anyway to hide the game pieces in such a way that they can be found 24 hours a day?

And what if the Chamber is closed when I try to redeem the pieces? What hours can we expect to be able to play and how many hours will it take to find all the pieces AND get them redeemed?

 

Caching challenges like this can be fun when done correctly. We enjoyed caching in Glendive the last time we were there. (When the Cave one was still around) I'm looking forward to another visit, maybe in October if Dean and I take a road trip around the state.

Jennifer from Missoula

[+Teewinot]

Hello all, Teewinot here hailing from Glendive, Montana. I am working with the chamber of commerce in town to launch a geocoin challenge in a couple of weeks hopefully. So I have questions and a favor to ask. The question. Does anyone know the rules in regards to placing caches in front of a business. here is the scenario. We want to have caches placed around the town in front of businesses that are supporting the coin project. As a cacher, you would find the cache and then walk into the business and collect a game piece from the clerk. No obligation to buy anything, but we are trying to get people to see the businesses in town. So does this breach any rules? and along those lines, can we have the final cache placed inside of the chamber of commerce? the idea here is after you have found all the pieces to the puzzle, it leads you back to the chamber where you get the coin, and then you could log a cache as well. If anyone knows the answers or can point me to a rule book, please do. And now the favor. Look up Glendive and you see how small of a town it is. I do not have access to many travel bugs or coins without driving three hours to bismark or billings. We want the final cache to be large and filled with goodies. Would anyone be willing to mail me some coins or travel bugs to fill our cache? I would offer to pay the shipping, but I am not rich and if a lot of people do send them I could be bankrupt soon! If anyone would do this that would be a great asset to the caching experience we are trying to provide in town. Thank you for your time. If interested in sending coins or TB's please contact me through my profile to get my address. And keep your eyes posted for the glendive coin challenge, I will post here when we are up and running.

Hi!

Sounds like a neat game. Did you see last year's state hidden treasures promotion? They hid a bunch of Ammo cans all over the state, inside and outside businesses. But they didn't' post them on GC.com. The biggest complaint I heard was about businesses being closed when Geocachers could be active.

What I mean- I drive to visit Glendive from Missoula, MT. No matter when I leave Missoula it is gonna be about a day later when I roll into town with all the wonderful geocaches to find between here and there. And more likely than not, it will be about 6 pm. So I will go out to find the local caches. And if the businesses are closed I will not be able to get the game pieces to get to the final cache. So I will be disappointed and sad because this sounds like a neat idea.

Long story short- is there anyway to hide the game pieces in such a way that they can be found 24 hours a day?

And what if the Chamber is closed when I try to redeem the pieces? What hours can we expect to be able to play and how many hours will it take to find all the pieces AND get them redeemed?

 

Caching challenges like this can be fun when done correctly. We enjoyed caching in Glendive the last time we were there. (When the Cave one was still around) I'm looking forward to another visit, maybe in October if Dean and I take a road trip around the state.

Jennifer from Missoula

I did not see the state hidden game, I was not living in Montana last year, but that sounds awesome! You make a valid point as well about business hours. I do believe we are going to go the route of simply finding X amount of caches in the town with passcodes in them, then you go to the chamber to redeem prize. Chamber right now is open M-F 8-5, But i believe they will be open on saturdays soon. This is a detail I want to work out with them because most cachers are going to be coming on weekends, so that makes retrieval of your prize difficult. We will work on a solution that can benefit everyone I hope. Thanks for the post and we look forward to seeing you in town later this year.

[emilieboyles]

Hello all, Teewinot here hailing from Glendive, Montana. I am working with the chamber of commerce in town to launch a geocoin challenge in a couple of weeks hopefully. So I have questions and a favor to ask. The question. Does anyone know the rules in regards to placing caches in front of a business. here is the scenario. We want to have caches placed around the town in front of businesses that are supporting the coin project. As a cacher, you would find the cache and then walk into the business and collect a game piece from the clerk. No obligation to buy anything, but we are trying to get people to see the businesses in town. So does this breach any rules? and along those lines, can we have the final cache placed inside of the chamber of commerce? the idea here is after you have found all the pieces to the puzzle, it leads you back to the chamber where you get the coin, and then you could log a cache as well. If anyone knows the answers or can point me to a rule book, please do. And now the favor. Look up Glendive and you see how small of a town it is. I do not have access to many travel bugs or coins without driving three hours to bismark or billings. We want the final cache to be large and filled with goodies. Would anyone be willing to mail me some coins or travel bugs to fill our cache? I would offer to pay the shipping, but I am not rich and if a lot of people do send them I could be bankrupt soon! If anyone would do this that would be a great asset to the caching experience we are trying to provide in town. Thank you for your time. If interested in sending coins or TB's please contact me through my profile to get my address. And keep your eyes posted for the glendive coin challenge, I will post here when we are up and running.

[emilieboyles]

I am the news director Montana East News for both radio and television in 13 counties of eastern Montana.

Please contact me. I am interested in running a story on your project.

Emilie Boyles

406-939-3378

 

 

Hello all, Teewinot here hailing from Glendive, Montana. I am working with the chamber of commerce in town to launch a geocoin challenge in a couple of weeks hopefully. So I have questions and a favor to ask. The question. Does anyone know the rules in regards to placing caches in front of a business. here is the scenario. We want to have caches placed around the town in front of businesses that are supporting the coin project. As a cacher, you would find the cache and then walk into the business and collect a game piece from the clerk. No obligation to buy anything, but we are trying to get people to see the businesses in town. So does this breach any rules? and along those lines, can we have the final cache placed inside of the chamber of commerce? the idea here is after you have found all the pieces to the puzzle, it leads you back to the chamber where you get the coin, and then you could log a cache as well. If anyone knows the answers or can point me to a rule book, please do. And now the favor. Look up Glendive and you see how small of a town it is. I do not have access to many travel bugs or coins without driving three hours to bismark or billings. We want the final cache to be large and filled with goodies. Would anyone be willing to mail me some coins or travel bugs to fill our cache? I would offer to pay the shipping, but I am not rich and if a lot of people do send them I could be bankrupt soon! If anyone would do this that would be a great asset to the caching experience we are trying to provide in town. Thank you for your time. If interested in sending coins or TB's please contact me through my profile to get my address. And keep your eyes posted for the glendive coin challenge, I will post here when we are up and running.

[+geoduck.5]

I think Canby, Oregon has done something similar, might want to check how they went about it.

[+Teewinot]

I think Canby, Oregon has done something similar, might want to check how they went about it.

They most certainly did, and I have the coin from that event. That is where I got the idea from. I emailed the cacher who put that all together but with no luck. Thanks for the post.

[+DonB]

Sounds like this idea would violate the Commercial Caches section of this site, to wit:

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.

 

Unless you get the required Groundspeak approval, of course. I got hung up on this one once when I wanted to have folks go into a Lowe's to get numbers off paint chips (no purchase, just paint numbers) - not allowed, and the cache didn't seem worth trying to get approval.

 

The Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines has lots of useful info.

They must make quite a few exceptions because I did a cache in Mexico that you had to go in the restaurant and ask the cashier for it. I also did one in Kansas and another in Oklahoma that was inside of a welcome center

Edited June 13, 2008 by DWBur