Newbies Placing Caches

[+Celtic Cache Trio]

I don't know if this has been brought up before, nor if this is the right place for it, but I need to bring something that is becoming an epidemic in our area. This is New Cachers placing caches. Lately it is becoming real bad with new cachers listing cacher and either having the coords that are very grossly off or not even having the cache in place when it is publish. In the last two weeks in our area we have had two that I have been aware of. The first had very bad coords. The first set couldn't have been "fat fingered" because when they were updated the new coords weren't anything like the original coords. The next one was published today and though I didn't run out for it but it was DNF'd by some high find cachers. The total finds of those that looked for it were well over 5000 I'm sure. Now in the first case the cacher had 19 finds and that was their first hide and the one today has 1 find and this is their first hide and they have only been registered with GC.com for 4 days. Now what I am proprosing is for Groundspeak to set up some minimal requirements for placing caches... i.e. you can't place a cache unless you have at least 50 finds and 3 months caching time. Of course this is relative to an area and I will leave the math to those that are good at it but there needs to be some sort of control on this before it gets way out of hand.

 

If this thread should be somewhere else to get the attention it needs, I hope the moderator will move it but I hope it will get a serious thought.

[+ChileHead]

Some of the worst hides I've seen have been by people with 1000+ hides. Let's not let them hide any.

[+theniffs]

I do think that there should be some requirements but I think what you have set is probably pretty harsh. I am new and have been thinking a lot about setting some caches. I would not be doing this without help from someone else as I want to make sure its done right. Maybe if they are under that magic requirement, it could be posted if they have a sponsor.. for example if I had someone that had a lot of finds and had been doing it for awhile check my stuff and make sure it would be good to go and they would need to go into the system and state so before a reviewer even looked at it?

 

I work on a university campus. So far there is only 1 cache, a friend (also a cacher) and I both want to place more but it will require a lot of thought because of the landscaping on campus. We are one of the top rated for beautiful campus' and the landscapers take it very seriously thus leaving out many hiding spots because there is no piles of leaves or anything like that for hiding in. Yes we can do micros but both my friend and I would rather not do micros.

 

Also there is a park by my house which is screaming for a cache and I would love to put one there but I need to find an ideal location before putting one in.

[+paleolith]

I think this is largely self-correcting. Experienced cachers -- the ones most likely to head out for a FTF -- will note when a cache is hidden by a no-find-one-hide wonder. They have the option of waiting for someone else to check it out.

 

I'm not saying it isn't a problem. I found one cache in a nice spot; the container was a reused frozen/microwave dish. No finds one hide. But as already said in this thread, and many times in similar previous threads, you can't legislate quality.

 

Edward

[+Lil Devil]

Many of the best caches I have found were hidden by newbies, some of them were their first hides.

 

Most of the worst caches I have found were hidden by experienced cachers, after they get lazy and just hide another one for the numbers.

[+Celtic Cache Trio]

Lets not take this to a Cache quality stand point... I am talking about un-findable caches because they either, not their or the coords are grossly incorrect. I really like the sponsor idea... If it is your first hide then you have to have an experienced sponsor to be sure that things are correct. Again, I'm not talking about caches be "Good" caches. I am talking about them being placed correctly.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

Some of our experienced cachers use "beta testers" in the area to verify accuracy of the coordinates, especially on puzzle caches. You could also volunteer to help newbies - invite them to events, put on demonstrations, etc. to assist.

[+genegene]

I think that the idea of a "sponsor" is a good idea for anyone hiding there first cache. I think I placed my first cache after only 15 days of having an official GC name, and only 4 finds and 2 DNF's.

 

Not wanting to have any problems I took about 5 different readings at different times of the day over 3 days, I also talked to my reviewer about it, and talked to another Cacher in the area to have him check on the cords for me.

 

I think that a sponsor is a good idea. They might be able to catch something that you missed when hiding your first cache.

 

As to how many you must find before you place your first cache, well I always recommend 10 finds to anyone before placing if you are not going to use a "sponsor/cord checker".

[+Lil Devil]

I've seen plenty of experienced cachers put out caches with bad coords, too.

 

As CO'P said, get out there and help the newbies. Give them suggestions, pull them under your wing.

 

Here's my suggestion for marking coords for a new cache: do it multiple times and average. Mark the location. Walk away 100 feet or more. Return to the cache and mark again. Walk away in another direction 100 feet or more. Repeat 5-6 times. Then average all the coords, ignoring any that are significantly different than the others. I always do this and have never had a complaint about my coords.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I've found (or DNFed) lots of caches with bad coords. Older caches tend to have less reliable coordinates.

Two stick in my mimd. One by a newby who used the north coordinates for the parking as the north coordinates of the cache. It was fairly obvious from the description that the area was wrong. It took me four tries, over two weeks, to get the FTF. Coords .18 off. The owner went back and corrected the coords. The other was by an experienced cacher. I had the final off by 170 feet in a tough area of discarded concrete road pieces. My log got deleted for pointing out the discrepancy. (I suspect that the bad coordinates were deliberate.)

Bad containers, on the other fin, tend to be self correcting. They do not last long, and tend to get archived quickly.

Yes, I have found some really great caches by cachers with very few finds. But, they are seriously over-numbered by really bad caches by newbies.

Don't want to take the chance? Then ignore them for a few months. If the caches are still there, then go for them.

[+Glenn]

Lets not take this to a Cache quality stand point... I am talking about un-findable caches because they either, not their or the coords are grossly incorrect. I really like the sponsor idea... If it is your first hide then you have to have an experienced sponsor to be sure that things are correct. Again, I'm not talking about caches be "Good" caches. I am talking about them being placed correctly.

 

Be a mentor and help them out. Sure, after a string of DNFs they may get the hint but wouldn't it be better if you sent them an email and politely explain that their coordinates are off and then offer tips on recording better coordinates?

 

If this really is epidemic in your area then hold a welcoming event for new geocachers. A restaurant where you reserve a room or a section is best. Then give a presentation on proper cache hiding methods. Don't forget the door prizes!!!

 

If you have a local geocaching club then join it and invite the new geocachers to join the club too. If there is no geocaching club in your area then start one. A club is a great way for experienced geocachers to share ideas and to mentor new geocachers.

[+The Hornet]

Do you know, over 7 years ago soon after I started this game I'd never placed a cache, then one day I took the plunge and went and placed a couple. I'd got no history of placing caches yet they still got approved (they were approved way back then, not published).

 

I reckon it's a fair bet that most people who have now placed dozens, or even hundreds of caches, had a similar experience.

 

Come on folks, we were all new once and we have probably all made mistakes. But we learn and these new cachers will also learn, they deserve our support.

[+Michael]

Do you know, over 7 years ago soon after I started this game I'd never placed a cache, then one day I took the plunge and went and placed a couple. I'd got no history of placing caches yet they still got approved (they were approved way back then, not published).

 

I reckon it's a fair bet that most people who have now placed dozens, or even hundreds of caches, had a similar experience.

 

Come on folks, we were all new once and we have probably all made mistakes. But we learn and these new cachers will also learn, they deserve our support.

 

Well said.

[+TotemLake]

I used to think setting an experience level is a good idea prior to hiding caches, and some people (such as myself) will self-impose that method. That being said, I have seen a wide range of quality or not so quality hides from both allegedly experienced and non-experienced players.

 

Some folks come by this naturally. Others think it is so easy they can do it blindfolded and it shows they probably did at least have their eyes closed when they hid the cache. The latter is an attitude issue and no matter what level of experience they "achieve" they won't get it right for a very long time and will eventually develop a bad reputation then burn out. It's difficult to filter this out by imposing an experience skill level requirement without ultimately stifling the creativity of someone who has the natural knack for this kind of thing.

[+ArcherDragoon]

Do you know, over 7 years ago soon after I started this game I'd never placed a cache, then one day I took the plunge and went and placed a couple. I'd got no history of placing caches yet they still got approved (they were approved way back then, not published).

 

I reckon it's a fair bet that most people who have now placed dozens, or even hundreds of caches, had a similar experience.

 

Come on folks, we were all new once and we have probably all made mistakes. But we learn and these new cachers will also learn, they deserve our support.

I was about to write the same thing...then decided to read the rest of the thread...

[Neos2]

Hiding a cache is just different than finding a cache. It doesn't really matter how many caches you have found before you try it--there is always going to be a learning curve.

 

You still have to figure out how to chose the location and make sure it is the legal distance from any other cache. You still have to choose what kind of container will suit that spot and your ability to maintain a cache there. You still have to learn how to get good coords, how to fill out the report, and how to write up the page so it appeals to as many people as possible.

 

Consider your job. I spent 18 years in school before I became a teacher (K-12 plus 5 years of college) and thought I knew a lot about teaching and learning--but education looks a lot different from this side of the desk.

 

I'd guess most things are like that. They look easy enough when you watch someone else do it, but it turns out there is more to it when you give it a try yourself. Until you try it, you really can't know that side of it.

 

Most caches are "OK to great" right from the start. Most lousy caches are self-correcting. They are either amended and improved or they disappear quickly. The only people they really annoy usually are the people who want to go after the FTF--and those folks know that's a risk they take to have that fun.

[Ferreter5]

...something that is becoming an epidemic in our area. This is New Cachers placing caches. ... In the last two weeks in our area we have had two that I have been aware of.

I have to ask, how is two incidents an epidemic?

[+Celtic Cache Trio]

...something that is becoming an epidemic in our area. This is New Cachers placing caches. ... In the last two weeks in our area we have had two that I have been aware of.

I have to ask, how is two incidents an epidemic?

I'm sorry, I mis spoke my self... I have had close knowledge of 2 in 2 weeks but it is happening on a regular basis. I have heard a number of stories recently when I mention it. I suppose I dove into this a little to quick and am kind of regreting it now. I suppose I just thought newer caches, if they had more finding experience, would have had more time to research hiding. The more you find you gain a better idea of what you like to find, what containers worked well in what areas, and through troubles finding other peoples caches they would learn some mistakes they want to be sure to avoid. I hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers with this, I'm not trying to make waves, just trying to offer suggestions. If it was a bad one I'm truely sorry.

[Ferreter5]

No problem. Was just wondering 'bout the frequency.

 

I'd have to agree that most cachers should probably find some before hiding their first cache just to get an idea of how the game is played. No guarantees though.

 

Cheers!

[+the hermit crabs]

I really like the sponsor idea... If it is your first hide then you have to have an experienced sponsor to be sure that things are correct.

If that were a requirement, I doubt I would have ever placed any caches at all.

[+joper1]

I am a newbie and have never even owned a GPS unit.

I am retired and love my ATV and spend a lot of time in the MTS. and the desert. I thought that geocaching would be a geat addition to my exploring.

I would appreciate the knowlegeable help of some one that has been geocaching for a while.

Basic stuff, like what kind of GPS unit to buy and how to use it.

If any of you live near Lake Isabella, Ca. and would like to help some one get started let me know.

I wouldn't want to upset any of you oldtimers with a poor cache.

Joper1

[+Renegade Knight]

I don't know if this has been brought up before, nor if this is the right place for it, but I need to bring something that is becoming an epidemic in our area. This is New Cachers placing caches....

 

The only way to learn how to be a cache owner is to place a cache and become one. Being a finder doesn't do as much as you might think.

[+Corey]

I am a newbie and have never even owned a GPS unit.

I am retired and love my ATV and spend a lot of time in the MTS. and the desert. I thought that geocaching would be a geat addition to my exploring.

I would appreciate the knowlegeable help of some one that has been geocaching for a while.

Basic stuff, like what kind of GPS unit to buy and how to use it.

If any of you live near Lake Isabella, Ca. and would like to help some one get started let me know.

I wouldn't want to upset any of you oldtimers with a poor cache.

Joper1

Try the Getting Started forum.

[+PhantomTech]

I'm not sure experience will guarantee a cache will be placed properly. A few months ago a new cache was published by someone that has 70 finds but has already placed three caches. I didn’t have any troubles finding other caches they placed. I tried for the FTF but in the description they mentioned no bushwacking required, however the coordinates put me in an area that would require about 120ft of bushwacking. After receiving a hint, which put it in a totally different area and playing around with the coordinates I realized they mistyped them and the cache was about 535 ft away from the posted coordinates.

 

Another new cache was published and after reading the description I realized it was near a post office. However google maps had it in a totally different area. This was also caused by mistyping the coordinates but this time it was 1.1 miles off. I managed to get the FTF and mentioned the error. This was by a person that has found over 700 caches and has placed 16 caches.

 

Being a FTF chaser I have seen problems with a people submitting their first cache and not have the actual cache in place. I would like to see a question asked to people placing their first couple of caches “Is the cache currently at the posted coordinates?”. I usually get responses like ‘this is my first cache and didn’t understand the complete process’, ‘I didn’t know people rush out that quick once published’, ‘I won’t make that mistake next time,sorry’. I have learned not to rush out if it's their first cache placement.

 

Yes the guidelines say ‘Your cache should be in place and ready to hunt at the time your cache page is submitted for review. If for any reason it is not ready, please either disable your cache page so that it won’t be seen by the reviewer until ready, or include a “note to reviewer” to explain your special circumstances (for example, waiting for a permit from a land manager).’ , but do people actually read/understand them thoroughly?

[+Celtic Cache Trio]

I'm not sure experience will guarantee a cache will be placed properly. A few months ago a new cache was published by someone that has 70 finds but has already placed three caches. I didn’t have any troubles finding other caches they placed. I tried for the FTF but in the description they mentioned no bushwacking required, however the coordinates put me in an area that would require about 120ft of bushwacking. After receiving a hint, which put it in a totally different area and playing around with the coordinates I realized they mistyped them and the cache was about 535 ft away from the posted coordinates.

 

Another new cache was published and after reading the description I realized it was near a post office. However google maps had it in a totally different area. This was also caused by mistyping the coordinates but this time it was 1.1 miles off. I managed to get the FTF and mentioned the error. This was by a person that has found over 700 caches and has placed 16 caches.

 

Being a FTF chaser I have seen problems with a people submitting their first cache and not have the actual cache in place. I would like to see a question asked to people placing their first couple of caches “Is the cache currently at the posted coordinates?”. I usually get responses like ‘this is my first cache and didn’t understand the complete process’, ‘I didn’t know people rush out that quick once published’, ‘I won’t make that mistake next time,sorry’. I have learned not to rush out if it's their first cache placement.

 

Yes the guidelines say ‘Your cache should be in place and ready to hunt at the time your cache page is submitted for review. If for any reason it is not ready, please either disable your cache page so that it won’t be seen by the reviewer until ready, or include a “note to reviewer” to explain your special circumstances (for example, waiting for a permit from a land manager).’ , but do people actually read/understand them thoroughly?

Sorry for quoting the whole thing... new to the whole forum thing. I too am an FTF chaser and expect some error when it is a newer cacher. I understand the as FTF chasers, we are the "Coordinate Checkers" but as you stated about the guidelines... you check boxes to insure that you have read and understand the guidelines. If a coordinate is mis typed by a number or two I can understand and I don't mind that. The two things that bother me the most are coordnates that when finally updated the only thing the same is (in our area) N42 and W083. Everything else is changed. The other is when the cache isn't in place.

 

The one, I had emailed the owner and there has been no response and his cache has been disabled by the reveiwer and there hasn't been any response to anyone.

[+FireRef]

I have shown a number of newbies geocaching, taken them out on hunts, and invariably, they want to place a cache right away. I tell them its not a good idea until they have seen a bunch of different types and have a number of finde under their belt. One placed one after 15-20, and although not the greatest, it has met with mixed reviews, but most people go for it. The second was placed after 50 finds, and is pretty well liked, even for an LPC type cache (replacing one that was in that spot and archived).

 

I like the idea of them waiting to see what kinds of caches there are, and make sure they have a clue about what is involved in the game.

 

How to legislate it? We (TPTB) don't do rules here, and guildelines are so flexible that they could make one, and it wouldn't be enforced consistently enough anyway to make it worthwhile... so I guess we just have to police ourselves on this point.

[+TheAprilFools]

While I like the idea of some experience test before allowing cachers to place caches, it would have to be dependant on the cache density in the local area. Here in the SF bay area there are so many caches it would be easy for the potential hider to get the needed experience. In smaller communities and other areas where caching is not as active it would be a lot harder.