Sign the log

[+bluetansy]

I found a cache that was covered with spiders. I HATE spiders. When I went home and logged my find, the owner deleted my find because I didn't sign the log because "the rules say." I thought this was supposed to be fun and we have to deal with our own (dis)honesty.

[+MountainRacer]

This has come up a lot: for one reason or another, someone finds a cache but doesn't sign the log and still wishes to count it as a find. The short answer is that you're at the mercy of the CO.

 

Personally, if faced with a situation in which I found a cache but was unable to sign the log (ex.: frozen into a block of ice), I would take a picture of myself as close to the cache as possible, preferably touching the container, and send that in an e-mail along with a note explaining the circumstances and asking for permission to log the find. Some COs would allow it, and some wouldn't. Honestly, I wouldn't get too ruffled about how one person views the game; there are a lot more caches out there for you to replace the lost smiley with.

[+WRASTRO]

In this case I would have posted a note rather than a find or a DNF. It was your choice not to attempt to open the cache and sign the log. If I had been the CO I would have contacted you and asked you to change the log type first and explained my reaons why I wasn't going to allow a find.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I found a cache that was covered with spiders. I HATE spiders. When I went home and logged my find, the owner deleted my find because I didn't sign the log because "the rules say." I thought this was supposed to be fun and we have to deal with our own (dis)honesty.

 

It supposed to be fun and it is too bad that this cache owner is taking this position. I can guarantee you that signing the physical log is in no way scribed into stone in the rules governing a cache hide. It's -his- rules that he is referring to not -the- rules.

 

Here is the bummer, he is perfectly within his rights as a CO to do this. He can keep deleting your find just as fast you can keep posting it. I'd write him back and make sure he is aware that there is no high power guiding your inability to log his cache. He may really think that is -the- rules that he is sworn to follow somehow.

 

If that doesn't work, make a bookmark list entitled. "Caches that I found but did not log due to spiders" and move on.

[+WRASTRO]

I found a cache that was covered with spiders. I HATE spiders. When I went home and logged my find, the owner deleted my find because I didn't sign the log because "the rules say." I thought this was supposed to be fun and we have to deal with our own (dis)honesty.

 

It supposed to be fun and it is too bad that this cache owner is taking this position. I can guarantee you that signing the physical log is in no way scribed into stone in the rules governing a cache hide. It's -his- rules that he is referring to not -the- rules.

 

Here is the bummer, he is perfectly within his rights as a CO to do this. He can keep deleting your find just as fast you can keep posting it. I'd write him back and make sure he is aware that there is no high power guiding your inability to log his cache. He may really think that is -the- rules that he is sworn to follow somehow.

 

If that doesn't work, make a bookmark list entitled. "Caches that I found but did not log due to spiders" and move on.

 

From the Geocaching FAQ:

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

 

Take something from the cache

Leave something in the cache

Write about it in the logbook

 

This is certainly the accepted practice.

 

If a cacher can't handle spiders they will be posting a lot of logs where they didn't sign the logbook in the cache. Maybe some gloves and a stick would be helpful tools for clearing away the spiders and handling the container.

[+BlueDeuce]

Bugs on a cache is not on my list of logging exceptions. But when again my exception list is pretty darn short.

Edited May 29, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[+roadrage64]

I've had a few that I was able to find but for one reason or another was not able to sign the log. If I have a camera I will take a picture of it. I then have emailed them and said something like "I would like to log the cache as a find, but I won't do it without your permission". So far, I've never been denied and never had to send the picture to them either.

[+qlenfg]

Well, here's one that we found but couldn't sign the log. Apparently the cache has been wet off and on for a few years and the owner has not fixed it -- GCMCJD. Container lots of water in it and anything not waterproof was a soggy glob. Might be a good reason to carry a space pen and some rite-in-rain paper. We logged it as a find.

 

Had to do something similar on a Wherigo when the program did not record the completion of the cartridge. We found the cache and signed the physical log, as well as logging the find on GC, but couldn't log it on Wherigo. Fortunately cache owner gave us a work-around for the find. Now that he's fixed a few bugs we're gonna have another go at it for fun.

[+tozainamboku]

The cache owner is a puritan. Like the Puritans, a religious sect in England and in the colonies of New England in the 16th and 17th century, geocaching puritans are obsessed with what they believe is a purity of doctrine and morality regarding how geocaching should be played. They object to any argument that says "rules" may be relaxed because this is just a game and the point is having fun. Some, like the Puritans in Salem, are all to ready to accuse anyone who might log a find without having signed the physical log as practicing witchcraft.

The geocaching puritans often look to the "religious" text of the Geocaching FAQ to provide proof that the rules say you must "write about it in the log". This interpretation misses that the so-called rules are none other than Dave Ulmer's instructions for people finding his first geocache. Since that time, many other geocaches have been hidden by cache owners who may give different instructions. If no instructions are given, it can be assumed that Dave's instructions apply. The guidelines for listing geocaches state that the owner of each cache is responsible for the quality control of posts to the cache page including deleting any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements. As such a puritan cache owner is within his rights to decided that a cacher who honestly reported that he didn't signed the log for some reason should not be allowed to log a 'Found It' online for this cache. Interestingly, a cacher who simply writes "TFTC" in the online log stands a better chance of having her log remain than someone who actually reported that he didn't open the cache or sign the log because of spiders. Some puritans do check the log book in their cache periodically and delete TFTC logs when they don't find the cacher's signature, but I suspect that some who will quickly delete an honest log, never bother checking the log book.

[+qlenfg]

Some cachers must sneak out and check the logs very frequently. Around here it looks like more of a 'set it and forget it' atmosphere.

 

I really chaps my butt when a cache goes missing and the owner is still putting out new caches, but not maintaining the existing ones. I think the GC prime reviewers need to look at a person's existing caches and say, 'Hey dude, fix or disable the missing / wet / broken cache or I'm not going to enable you new cache.'

 

And maybe disabling easy caches that go unfound for a year so someone else can put on out in the same area.

[CoyoteRed]

Hmmm...

 

"I don't like spiders, so I didn't sign the log. I didn't put my hand on the cache. I didn't open the cache. I don't know what I found was not a decoy or even a terracache."

 

I'm just poking a bit of fun.

 

But, some folks do put little obstacles in the way for signing the log. You don't really know what those obstacles are sometimes. It could be a cache in an icky place you don't want to put your hand--I have a letterbox like that. It might be high in a tree. It might be at the bottom of a stream. etc. etc. etc.

 

My rules are pretty darn simple. Sign the log and I know you've found the cache. I don't want to go around making exceptions here and there, because then I have to define "The Line." Where is "The Line?" If you're making exceptions to signing the log, then it could be holding it in your hand, taking a picture with you in it, taking a picture with your avatar in it, leaving a calling card near it, calling me on the phone, or it could be whatever. For me, it's simple. It's the most common. It's signing your name in the logbook.

 

My rule cuts both ways. Cheat* ( not "shortcut" which is different ) and get your name in the cache log, yep, it's still a find, a cheesy one, but still a find.

 

I know I'm not the only one that has such a hard and fast rule. I'm sure many others are pretty close to it. So, when knowing this, why put yourself in a position where you might be shot down if you didn't sign the log?

 

Also, I very much prefer that folks don't ask me for exceptions because it puts me in the position of having to tell them "no." I know of others who have complained to me of similar situations. Some cache owners will allow exceptions or outright don't care if you sign the log or not. That's their prerogative.

 

Sure, the hobby is supposed to be about having fun. The fun for a lot of us is pushing our comfort zones, finding our limits, and having an adventure. If that isn't happening, it's a bit boring. I don't recall a single cache that we've failed to sign the log yet logged a find online.

 

* Cheat: defined as getting the final coords through no work of your own or your teammates.

[+BlueDeuce]

The cache owner is a puritan. Like the Puritans, a religious sect in England and in the colonies of New England in the 16th and 17th century, geocaching puritans are obsessed with what they believe is a purity of doctrine and morality regarding how geocaching should be played. They object to any argument that says "rules" may be relaxed because this is just a game and the point is having fun. Some, like the Puritans in Salem, are all to ready to accuse anyone who might log a find without having signed the physical log as practicing witchcraft.

 

You sure like to present the puritan point of view. Are you sure you're not a card carry'en member?

[+WRASTRO]

The cache owner is a puritan. Like the Puritans, a religious sect in England and in the colonies of New England in the 16th and 17th century, geocaching puritans are obsessed with what they believe is a purity of doctrine and morality regarding how geocaching should be played. They object to any argument that says "rules" may be relaxed because this is just a game and the point is having fun. Some, like the Puritans in Salem, are all to ready to accuse anyone who might log a find without having signed the physical log as practicing witchcraft.

 

You sure like to present the puritan point of view. Are you sure you're not a card carry'en member?

Not sure about being a card carry'en member but he sure is good at painting very broad strokes with no paint on the brush.

Edited May 30, 2008 by WRASTRO

[+Lotho]

Another reason not to have an irrational fear iof spiders..

[+The Pathman]

Prove to us that you have found the cache (Photo of you with cache visible) and explain why you couldn't sign the log and we will give you the find.

After all, some maintance may need to be done or even possibly have to move the cache due to mother nature taking over the site. It happens around here

[MikeB3542]

My suggestion is to send the cache owner an e-mail. Explain the situation. There are maybe a dozen caches that I have found but didn't sign. Why?

 

1. Wet log

2. No pencil or pen (it happens)

3. Container won't open/log cannot be extracted from container (unless cache page specifically says "bring tools".) I cxan think of a recent cache where the log was in pvc pipe and the threads had gotten crossed up -- I suppose I could have trashed the container trying to get at the log, but I thought better of it.

4. Cache frozen in block of ice.

5. Container fallen in truly unaccessable/unsafe location. Cache placed up a tree or in a cave wouldn't count, but a cache hung from a string that broke could.

 

In all these cases, the cache was found in good faith. It just is that the log can't be signed. I usually don't carry a camera; the local cache owners are usually just fine if you explain the situation; describe what you saw.

 

They do have the prerogative to delete your log, but it has not happened to me once. The CO's are usually happy to know if there is an issue, so that they can do maintenance, temporarily disable, or archive the hide.

 

In defense of the "Puritans", there are parts of the country where I have heard that the situation has been abused. I have read in the forums complaints from folks who think they have an FTF (empty log) only to go online and see multiple "Found It!" logs. I don't see this much in my neck of the woods (SE Wisconsin), which might explain why the CO's around here are so darn nice!

[+tobiah]

I found a cache that was covered with spiders. I HATE spiders. When I went home and logged my find, the owner deleted my find because I didn't sign the log because "the rules say." I thought this was supposed to be fun and we have to deal with our own (dis)honesty.

 

I never realized that this was ever considered an issue. I hike a lot with other folks

that aren't too interested in caching. They can get impatient while I walk around in

circles, pausing the hike. Quite often, I will make visual contact with the cache, then

keep going in order not to hold up the rest of the party. I guess I'll make a little more

effort to sign the log from now on.

Edited June 1, 2008 by tobiah

[+Kit Fox]

The cache owner is a puritan. Like the Puritans, a religious sect in England and in the colonies of New England in the 16th and 17th century, geocaching puritans are obsessed with what they believe is a purity of doctrine and morality regarding how geocaching should be played. They object to any argument that says "rules" may be relaxed because this is just a game and the point is having fun. Some, like the Puritans in Salem, are all to ready to accuse anyone who might log a find without having signed the physical log as practicing witchcraft.

 

You sure like to present the puritan point of view. Are you sure you're not a card carry'en member?

Not sure about being a card carry'en member but he sure is good at painting very broad strokes with no paint on the brush.

 

That's his typical response. He always loved to lump geocachers who like to follow the basic tenets of geocaching as Religous Zealots.. Most of the time his post are about as useful as his ice cream analogies.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+qlenfg]

Well, here's one that we found but couldn't sign the log. Apparently the cache has been wet off and on for a few years and the owner has not fixed it -- GCMCJD. Container lots of water in it and anything not waterproof was a soggy glob. Might be a good reason to carry a space pen and some rite-in-rain paper. We logged it as a find.

 

Had to do something similar on a Wherigo when the program did not record the completion of the cartridge. We found the cache and signed the physical log, as well as logging the find on GC, but couldn't log it on Wherigo. Fortunately cache owner gave us a work-around for the find. Now that he's fixed a few bugs we're gonna have another go at it for fun.

 

Quick follow-up:

 

I posted a 'needs maintenance' entry to the log -- we'll see what happens.

[+Sparticus06]

I have logged it as a find and did not sign the log. The last cache I did, I HAD to do this. It was down in the crevice of a bunch of rocks. 1 I could not reach it, nor did I want to because that area is known for rattlesnakes. There was no way I was going to try and get it. I know since then I have started carrying one of those tool grabbers that has the fingers that retract. Might go back up sometime soon and retrieve that cache, but for now, it can stay right where it is. I am not afraid of snakes, just dont want to get bit by a rattler. The CO has not deleted my log so I am taking it that it was ok.

[+climbstuff]

I have logged it as a find and did not sign the log. The last cache I did, I HAD to do this. It was down in the crevice of a bunch of rocks. 1 I could not reach it, nor did I want to because that area is known for rattlesnakes. There was no way I was going to try and get it. I know since then I have started carrying one of those tool grabbers that has the fingers that retract. Might go back up sometime soon and retrieve that cache, but for now, it can stay right where it is. I am not afraid of snakes, just dont want to get bit by a rattler. The CO has not deleted my log so I am taking it that it was ok.

 

It was a 5 star terrain cache.

 

Delete your own log.

[+WRASTRO]

I have logged it as a find and did not sign the log. The last cache I did, I HAD to do this. It was down in the crevice of a bunch of rocks. 1 I could not reach it, nor did I want to because that area is known for rattlesnakes. There was no way I was going to try and get it. I know since then I have started carrying one of those tool grabbers that has the fingers that retract. Might go back up sometime soon and retrieve that cache, but for now, it can stay right where it is. I am not afraid of snakes, just dont want to get bit by a rattler. The CO has not deleted my log so I am taking it that it was ok.

For me this would have been a note. I got there, I could see the container, I wasn't willing or able to do what was necessary to retrieve the container and sign the log.

[+Klatch]

I have logged it as a find and did not sign the log. The last cache I did, I HAD to do this. It was down in the crevice of a bunch of rocks. 1 I could not reach it, nor did I want to because that area is known for rattlesnakes. There was no way I was going to try and get it. I know since then I have started carrying one of those tool grabbers that has the fingers that retract. Might go back up sometime soon and retrieve that cache, but for now, it can stay right where it is. I am not afraid of snakes, just dont want to get bit by a rattler. The CO has not deleted my log so I am taking it that it was ok.

I agree with the others, the cache was rated a 5 terrain, you could plainly see the cache, you weren't either prepared or willing to do what was required. Delete your own find.

[+BilboB]

In all the times that I found the cache and could not write in the log for whatever reason (muggles, no writing utensil, frozen), I have never been denied by the CO. A simple email with a good description of the area/cache usually does the trick.

[+Sparticus06]

The cache was not a 5/5. It was actually sort of an easy one. I think it was sitting on a ledge above the crevice and it may have fallen down in, making it impossible to get. This is the cache, and I see someone else retrieved it. Scores of smalls cache

I am not going to delete my log. I found it, just couldnt and wouldnt grab it. I dont see what the big deal with that is. I did email the owner and told them exactly what had happened.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Sparticus06

[+climbstuff]

The cache was not a 5/5. It was actually sort of an easy one. I think it was sitting on a ledge above the crevice and it may have fallen down in, making it impossible to get. This is the cache, and I see someone else retrieved it. Scores of smalls cache

I am not going to delete my log. I found it, just couldnt and wouldnt grab it. I dont see what the big deal with that is. I did email the owner and told them exactly what had happened.

 

who said 5/5?

 

seeing a cache and not being able to reach isn't "logging" a cache

[+StaticTank]

I will never log a find that where I cannot sign the log. I have found caches that were frozen in ice and I came back when it thawed or I carefully remove it from the ice. If the log is missing but the container is still there I will replace the log or just add a piece of paper. There is a cache here where I live that I have found but having logged it yet. I have to put a ladder up to a tree in a public place so I haven't been there at the right time to sign the log yet, I would never count this as found just because I know where it is and have seen it. I believe that one should sign the log to count it as a find. I also believe there are some extreme circumstances where I would make an exception. Just my two cents.

[+Sparticus06]

The cache was not a 5/5. It was actually sort of an easy one. I think it was sitting on a ledge above the crevice and it may have fallen down in, making it impossible to get. This is the cache, and I see someone else retrieved it. Scores of smalls cache

I am not going to delete my log. I found it, just couldnt and wouldnt grab it. I dont see what the big deal with that is. I did email the owner and told them exactly what had happened.

 

who said 5/5?

 

seeing a cache and not being able to reach isn't "logging" a cache

 

Sorry my mistake on the 5/5. IT would be just like finding a cache and the log is so full you can not sign it. I found a cache once that the log was mush and there was no where to place a new log. Still logged it as a find and the owner had no problem with it.

If someone has a problem with it, email the owner and tell em how you feel. If they contact me and tell me to delete my log, or they delete it, so be it.

[+Hellolost]

OK... so I found a cache that had been muggled. All the "treasures" were on the ground. I put everything back together and rehid it in the proper location. I logged this as a find even though the log book was no longer there. I touched it. I fixed it. I rehid it.

I was really really new and had no idea that I could replace the logbook or I would have done so.

 

I logged this as a find.

 

But if I am reading this correctly most people think I shouldn't have. Is that correct?

[+Renegade Knight]

I found a cache that was covered with spiders. I HATE spiders. When I went home and logged my find, the owner deleted my find because ...

 

Signing the log is different than actually finding the cache. However signing the log is the normally accepted proof of a find. I'm not aware of a rule about signing the log so much as it's a strong tradition that most people just accept as caching reality.

 

As for the deleted find. That's the owners call. Next time photograph the cache and the spiders and stick that in your log. Things come up where the finder can't sign the log for whatever reason. Spiders, Frozen Shut, Rusted shut, soggy log, cache smashed by bulldozer, missing log etc. Even when something comes up it's the onwers call. Most owners are understanding if you wanted to sign the log but couldn't...if you tell them before hand rather than after the fact.

[+Renegade Knight]

OK... so I found a cache that had been muggled. All the "treasures" were on the ground. I put everything back together and rehid it in the proper location. I logged this as a find even though the log book was no longer there. I touched it. I fixed it. I rehid it.

I was really really new and had no idea that I could replace the logbook or I would have done so.

 

I logged this as a find.

 

But if I am reading this correctly most people think I shouldn't have. Is that correct?

 

You found the cache. You are good to go. Kudos on picking it up and putting it back together. The owner may say otherwise and delete your find, or they may say "thanks for putting it back together" and go put a log book in it.

[+Renegade Knight]

I have logged it as a find and did not sign the log. The last cache I did, I HAD to do this. It was down in the crevice of a bunch of rocks. 1 I could not reach it, nor did I want to because that area is known for rattlesnakes. There was no way I was going to try and get it. I know since then I have started carrying one of those tool grabbers that has the fingers that retract. Might go back up sometime soon and retrieve that cache, but for now, it can stay right where it is. I am not afraid of snakes, just dont want to get bit by a rattler. The CO has not deleted my log so I am taking it that it was ok.

 

That's a DNF. You didn't get to the cache. We once tried a rock climbing cache. We lowered someone by rope to the cache, they missed and that was that. We could see it. Drop rocks on it. But could not retrieve it even if we wanted too. It was a DNF and a fun afternoon trying to get to it.

 

The difference betwene us and the OP is that we could not touch our cache to sign the log. You from fear. Use from rock climbing ineptitude. The OP could have got the cache but that last 1" was a phobia thing. I don't know if you see the difference but I do see one.

[+climbstuff]

The cache was not a 5/5. It was actually sort of an easy one. I think it was sitting on a ledge above the crevice and it may have fallen down in, making it impossible to get. This is the cache, and I see someone else retrieved it. Scores of smalls cache

I am not going to delete my log. I found it, just couldnt and wouldnt grab it. I dont see what the big deal with that is. I did email the owner and told them exactly what had happened.

 

who said 5/5?

 

seeing a cache and not being able to reach isn't "logging" a cache

 

Sorry my mistake on the 5/5. IT would be just like finding a cache and the log is so full you can not sign it. I found a cache once that the log was mush and there was no where to place a new log. Still logged it as a find and the owner had no problem with it.

If someone has a problem with it, email the owner and tell em how you feel. If they contact me and tell me to delete my log, or they delete it, so be it.

 

You brought your story to this thread, making it open to opinions. My opinion is that I disagree with logging it under those circumstances. In this case you could not get your hands on the container.

 

Example: If I placed a magnetic hide-a-key container 30 feet up on a lamp post, showing up and seeing the container is not "logging" the cache.

 

...but it's between you and the CO. In this game, you can play by whatever rule (guideline) you want.